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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: The proud Jew on August 07, 2011, 08:10:17 PM

Title: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: The proud Jew on August 07, 2011, 08:10:17 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/146457

I think that if a plant grown from the earth can produce so many medical bennefits than why not give it to sick people? I believe this applys to pikuach nefesh.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 10:08:18 PM
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/146457

I think that if a plant grown from the earth can produce so many medical bennefits than why not give it to sick people? I believe this applys to pikuach nefesh.

I agree that there are medical uses... But I also believe it should be controlled like any other medicine and not abused... BTW, that is my own personal opinion and it is not JTFs position {as I understand it from hearing what Chaim has said}...



Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Meerkat on August 07, 2011, 10:22:01 PM
i think it should be regulated in a similar manner to tobacco. if people wanna screw with their bodies and are not interfering with other people, thats their choice.

funny thing about medical marijuana: a lot of painkillers that are on the market are far worse than pot. there's a ton of opium-based painkillers out there, its basically soft heroin, which is a complete disaster. marijuana is much safer compared to some of the prescription pain killers currently out.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Secularbeliever on August 07, 2011, 10:34:53 PM
Medical marijuana as it is practiced in Calfiornia is a complete fraud.  Anyone can get a card as long as they can pay the Doctor's fee.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: The proud Jew on August 07, 2011, 10:45:30 PM
i think it should be regulated in a similar manner to tobacco. if people wanna screw with their bodies and are not interfering with other people, thats their choice.

funny thing about medical marijuana: a lot of painkillers that are on the market are far worse than pot. there's a ton of opium-based painkillers out there, its basically soft heroin, which is a complete disaster. marijuana is much safer compared to some of the prescription pain killers currently out.

My mother is a pharmacist and most of the pharmaceducals she gives out are usually poison they give to people. If a jew or a gentile wants to mess up there bodys its there decision. In the torah we have no restrictions to alcohol or gambling. I recently say 2 chassids at a poker table in vegas winning money.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 11:11:15 PM
My mother is a pharmacist and most of the pharmaceducals she gives out are usually poison they give to people. If a jew or a gentile wants to mess up there bodys its there decision. In the torah we have no restrictions to alcohol or gambling. I recently say 2 chassids at a poker table in vegas winning money.

I think you are making incorrect assumptions here... You should read what we said about this in the Torah section...

There are prohibitions on drinking. We are observing one such prohibition this week. In memory of the 9 days of Av we do not drink wine or eat meat. There is also an obvious prohibition on a Kohein drinking before doing the service in the Temple, and a general prohibition from praying to Hashem while intoxicated.

It is incorrect to believe that Judaism doesn't condemn things which are known to be harmful to the body. And it does not encourage intoxication.

While Chassids are known to drink it is only because there are actual mitzvahs which require drinking. But there is a fine line.

Concerning gambling there are prohibitions on engaging in gambling. If you are interested I can find you the portions which support this position...

This is the long discussion of the topic in the Torah section :

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,53169.0.html


AND NO.... The Torah does not allow a Jew to mess up his or her own body, quite the opposite. We are not allowed to have Tattoes or piercings because of the very fact that our body is not ours to destroy, it is a gift from Hashem... This is also why a Jew does not get cremated... And another thing we remember from circumcision...


Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 11:15:44 PM
Here is an ask the Rabbi on this:

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/89/Q1/

Topic: Drugs in Judaism

[Name and email address withheld] wrote:

What does Judaism have to say about recreational drug usage? I know what Judaism has to say about putting anything harmful into the body, but what about certain drugs that do not hurt the body? Is altering one's state of consciousness ok or not ok from a Jewish standpoint?

PS. If you post this message to the Ask the Rabbi listserve for everyone to see, please make sure that my name and e-mail address are confidential.

Dear Confidential,

Your question was asked of Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, zatzal, regarding Marijuana. The following is a summary of his answer:

The Torah teaches about a 'Ben Sorer Umoreh' - a rebellious son. A Ben Sorer Umoreh is a youth who steals meat and wine from his father and gobbles it down. The Torah calls for the death penalty in such a case. Since he is addicted to physical pleasures, he will ultimately do anything to support his habit, even rob and kill. The same is true of drugs, and more so. People who use drugs usually acquire a strong hunger to maintain their habit, and can develop physical and/or psychological dependence.

In general, using drugs is unhealthy. But even if no harm is done to the body, drugs lead to a lack of concentration needed to pray, fulfill mitzvot and learn Torah properly.

Parents are usually distressed by a child's drug usage, so using drugs could lead to violating the commandment to "Honor your father and mother."

And finally, the Torah says "Kedoshim Tihiyu" - "You shall be holy" - meaning that you should not seek out and indulge in excess pleasures. Based on all the above reasons Rabbi Feinstein prohibits Marijuana [and urges educators to do all they can to dissuade people from using it.]

Now if you ask, "But what about alcohol? Don't all the above reasons apply equally well to it?" The answer is... "Yes!" In the words of the Rambam, "Someone who gets drunk is a sinner." Alcohol, when used for the purpose of getting intoxicated, would be in the same category as drugs.

Another point: Using drugs, even for 'recreation', brings you in contact with 'professionals': Users and - unless you 'grow your own' - dealers. So, as they say: "If the drugs don't getcha, the company will..."

Sources:

Iggrot Moshe, Yoreh De'ah 3:35



Rabbi Mizrachi on the topic:

http://www.divineinformation.com/audios-english/gambling-alcohol-and-drugs/
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 07, 2011, 11:19:40 PM
Drug companies are evil, they try to replicate natural alternatives. Opioid nicotine and beer are all more additive then when weed this is all propaganda bs funded by competing drug companies. Yes weed should be legal why give drug cartels more money and power ,face it the war on drugs is lost and a waste of my tax paying money.

Ask you self who is getting rich of of the illegality of it?
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 11:20:42 PM
Drug companies are evil, they try to replicate natural alternatives. Opioid nicotine and beer are all more additive then when weed this is all propaganda bs funded by competing drug companies. Yes weed should be legal why give drug cartels more money and power ,face it the war on drugs is lost and a waste of my tax paying money.

Ask you self who is getting rich of of the illegality of it?

Oh I know about how wicked the Pharma companies are... They tried to get me hooked on pain killers. I had all kinds including Oxycontin and a Morphine pill which I cant remember the name of... Luckily I have not taken any of those pills in over a year now...

Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Meerkat on August 07, 2011, 11:26:34 PM
a ton of painkillers opium-based, meaning it's just soft heroin.

and yes, the drug was is a massive waste of money. with our deficit, cracking down on potheads should not be a priority, we could probably benefit from tax revenue from weed.

and it is also destroying mexico, their legitimate government is unable to control the drug cartels and is turning that country into another somalia, right on our border.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: The proud Jew on August 07, 2011, 11:27:07 PM
I think you are making incorrect assumptions here... You should read what we said about this in the Torah section...

There are prohibitions on drinking. We are observing one such prohibition this week. In memory of the 9 days of Av we do not drink wine or eat meat. There is also an obvious prohibition on a Kohein drinking before doing the service in the Temple, and a general prohibition from praying to Hashem while intoxicated.

It is incorrect to believe that Judaism doesn't condemn things which are known to be harmful to the body. And it does not encourage intoxication.

While Chassids are known to drink it is only because there are actual mitzvahs which require drinking. But there is a fine line.

Concerning gambling there are prohibitions on engaging in gambling. If you are interested I can find you the portions which support this position...

This is the long discussion of the topic in the Torah section :

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,53169.0.html


AND NO.... The Torah does not allow a Jew to mess up his or her own body, quite the opposite. We are not allowed to have Tattoes or piercings because of the very fact that our body is not ours to destroy, it is a gift from Hashem... This is also why a Jew does not get cremated... And another thing we remember from circumcision...




Then why do jews" gamble on channukah with  dredels?
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 07, 2011, 11:33:56 PM
I have to disagree with the Rabbi sadly.

"Rebellious son" What if you were sick and mommy and dandy were brain washed by the government! should the son still stay sick because daddy does not like weed? Smoking it is harmful but there are safer ways.

Everything is addicting soda, videogames , carbs , what if mom and dad did not want you to eat those? Does one have to live his life exactly how mom and dad want you to ? That seems like a form of mind control. One had to honor ones parents in a direct approach not a direct approach. For example, such as not cursing, helping them when they are old, helping them wear cloths and shower when old and taking care of them. One does not have to base his lifestyle on how how mommy and daddy want their son to be molded after if he goes according to torah and oral laws.
We see an example of this by Esav who the torah mentions respected his parents because he directly respected them , yet indirectly did not by marrying Canaanites. ultimately his head was in the tomb of the patriarchs because he indeed DID respect his parents.

The Rabbi has to say this because it would look bad if he said otherwise. He was being political and not halacic. We even have Canabasim in the Ketoret and other addictive drugs like cloves which do get you high there.  One last note for thought. Jews  drink wine which is 10x more addictive then weed every weed. Everything has potential for abuse even weed. The Torah is the instructions on how to prevent these calamities.

The worst thing I have seen weed do is make a person lazy and chubby. But I dont thing it gets to  a point of taking your parents money esp if you live 1000's of miles away.I guess maybe some people do  but I have a feeling bums like that would be like that without drugs too.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 11:34:46 PM
Then why do jews" gamble on channukah with  dredels?

Ahh... Good question... I have heard the answer to this...

Here is a discussion on the topic...


Here the Talmud is very clear about how bad gambling is:

http://www.koltorah.org/halachah/torah%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2s-view-gambling

Quote
Talmudic Background

The main Talmudic discussion of gambling appears in Sanhedrin (24b-25a). The Mishnah there lists different types of men who are disqualified from serving as witnesses, including a dice player (Mesacheik BeKubiya). The Gemara cites two explanations for disqualifying a dice player. Rami Bar Chama believes that one's winnings in dice playing constitute theft, as the losing party does not willingly give his money to the winner. According to Rami Bar Chama, it is a situation of Asmachta in which someone accepts a disproportionately large financial responsibility under the assumption that he will never have to pay it. Rashi (s.v. Asmachta) explains that Rami Bar Chama considers gambling to be Asmachta because each gambler agrees to pay, should he lose, only due to the mistaken belief that he will win. Hence, when he hands the money to the winner, he does so unwillingly.
On the other hand, the Gemara records that Rav Sheishet does not view the losing gambler's payment as an Asmachta. According to Rav Sheishet, the Mishnah disqualifies only a gambler who has no other profession because he fails to engage in any constructive activity (“Eino Oseik BeYishuvo Shel Olam”). The Rambam (Hilchot Gezeilah VaAveidah 6:11) explains that a person should involve himself in study and other activities that contribute positively to society, whereas even permissible forms of gambling (such as gambling with a Nochri) contain no socially redeeming value.

And many modern sages are against the practice of gambling on Channukah:

Ibid
Quote
The Mishnah Berurah and Aruch Hashulchan (cited at the beginning of the article) strongly discourage playing cards on Chanukah. Rav Moshe Feinstein refers to card playing and bingo (for financial gain) as despicable activities ("Devarim Mecho'arim"). Rav Aharon Lichtenstein commented (to me) that casinos and gambling halls are "symbols of decadence in society." Rav Yehuda Amital said, "People are seeking forms of excitement in life [which are unhealthy]." Rav Soloveitchik put it succinctly, as mentioned earlier - "It is a bad habit; don't do it!"
The Torah (VaYikra 19:2) exhorts us: "Kedoshim Tih'yu," "Be holy.” Many great rabbis have declared that gambling is incompatible with the Jewish people's goal of being a holy people. While it is highly unusual for the Aruch Hashulchan to strongly condemn a practice of the observant community, he does so regarding the practice of many Jews to gamble on Chanukah. Perhaps he reacted so harshly because he served as the rabbi of a city (Novaradok, in pre-World War I Lithuania), where he may have seen the devastating effects that gambling often has on individuals, their families, and society as a whole. In short, let us remember the words of the Mishnah Berurah regarding gambling, "HaShomer Nafsho Yirchak MiZeh," "He who values his soul will stay away from it."

From what I can tell is that it is a custom which many Rabbis frown on...

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/487,30274/How-can-we-play-dreidel-on-Chanukah-isnt-it-gambling.html

http://www.askmoses.com/en/list/487/Holidays-Chanukah-The-Customs.html

Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 07, 2011, 11:34:50 PM
Oh I know about how wicked the Pharma companies are... They tried to get me hooked on pain killers. I had all kinds including Oxycontin and a Morphine pill which I cant remember the name of... Luckily I have not taken any of those pills in over a year now...



Scary!
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 11:36:40 PM
I have to disagree with the Rabbi sadly.

"Rebellious son" What if you were sick and mommy and dandy were brain washed by the government! should the son still stay sick because daddy does not like weed? Smoking it is harmful but there are safer ways.

Everything is addicting soda, videogames , carbs , what id mom and dad did not want you to eat those? does one have to live his life exactly how mom and dad want you to ? that seems like a form of mind control. One had to honor ones parents in a direct approach not a direct approach, such as not cursing them helping them when they are old helping them wear cloths and shower when old and taking care of them. One does not have to base his lifestyle on how how mommy and daddy want their son to be molded after.
We see an example of this by Esav who the torah mentions respected his parents because he directly respected them , yet indirectly did not by marrying Canaanites. ultimately his head was in the tomb of the patriarchs because he indeed DID respect his parents.

The Rabbi has to say this because it would look bad if he said otherwise. He was being political and not halacic. We even have Canabasim in the Ketoret and other addictive drugs like cloves which do get you high there.  One last note for thought. Jews  drink wine which is 10x more addictive then weed every weed. Everything has potential for abuse even weed. The Torah is the instructions on how to prevent these calamities.

You are not correct. This is not one Rabbi who says this... I can bring you tons of Rabbis which bring the Halachic prohibition to doing damage to your body. Your argument about things which do damage we discussed in the Thread. There are levels of knowing that you are doing damage. One who smokes and knows that it causes cancer is violating a mitzvah. This is not politically correct, this is the law according to the mitzvot. It is one of the 613 commandments to do no harm to your body, as in making a tattoo..


That you mention a case where one who obeyed honoring of parents and it resulted in a corrupted soul does not invalidate the commandment to honor your mother and father , this is one of the TEN COMMANDMENTS, is it not?

Jews drink wine in moderation. I don't know any Jew who is religious who is a drunk... Maybe you do.


Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 11:38:56 PM
http://www.oztorah.com/2007/08/drugs-judaism/


Drugs & Judaism
Rabbi Dr. Raymond Apple
Judaism cannot ignore the widespread problem of drug abuse, not only because of its individual, family and social effects, but because drug taking infringes basic halachic principles.

1. The first principle is that we do not own our bodies. They belong to the Holy One, blessed be He (Rambam, Hilchot Rotze’ach 1:4; Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Choshen Mishpat, Nizkei HaGuf 4).

The Torah establishes the principle, “You shall diligently guard your life” (Deut. 4:15); the Rambam says, “It is forbidden for a person to injure himself or another” (Hilchot Chovel U’Mazzik 5:1; cf. Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat 420:31).

We are not permitted to harm, mutilate, destroy or even take risks with our body, life or health. Smoking, immoderate use of alcohol, and drug taking all threaten the body which belongs to G-d. The Talmud insists that “regulations concerning danger to life are more stringent than ritual prohibitions” (Chullin 10a).

Yes, some rabbis refused to ban smoking on the basis that “The Lord protects the simple” (Psalm 116:6), but knowing now how much danger is likely as a result of smoking, halachic opinion is much more negative than before on the subject, and in relation to drug taking the principle would be the Talmudic statement, “Where injury is likely one must not rely on a miracle” (Kidd. 39b). The danger may not always be immediate, but jeopardising one’s long term future is also a major consideration.

2. Man is made in the Divine image (Gen. 1:26) and endowed with free will (Deut. 11:26, 30:15). Under the influence of drugs, as Rabbi Moshe D. Tendler puts it, man “becomes, for varying lengths of time, a lobotomised caricature of this noble creature that bears the Godly image” (“Judaism and Drugs”, ed. Leo Landman, 1973, p.64).

3. Man is made as both an individual and a member of society. Drug-taking affects one’s ability to be a socially responsive and responsible person. The habit needs constant feeding, and the wherewithal has to come from somewhere, often petty pilfering and sometimes quite serious criminality. Several of the Ten Commandments end up being broken as a result.

It also “necessitates contact with the morally degraded elements of our society” – the drug barons (Tendler). The drug addict becomes enslaved not only to the drug substances but also to drug sellers. “To Me are the Children of Israel servants,” says the Almighty (Lev. 25:55), “and not servants to (other) servants” add the sages (Bava Kamma 116b).

4. Using judiciously chosen drugs for therapeutic purposes under the direction of a competent physician is one thing. Resorting to drugs in order to escape from reality, to attempt to become somebody, to heighten one’s mood – that is something else.

Halachah believes that a person who wants a high should find it in the ecstasy of spiritual communion with G-d, the exhilaration of Torah study, the supreme joy of doing a mitzvah (Eruvin 54b etc.).

True, some attribute to historical figures like the Baal Shem Tov certain addictive habits, but the evidence is scanty, despite Professor Yaffa Eliach’s attempt to show that the Baal Shem reached spiritual highs because he “smoked something other than tobacco” (Proceedings of the American Academy for Jewish Research, vol. 36, 1968, pp. 57-83).

Dr. Walter Wurzburger warns that for Judaism, “Proximity to G-d cannot be reached by putting oneself into a trance either through physical or chemical means”. Even when, he adds, “through a supernatural gift of prophecy, an individual is privileged to behold the heavenly mysteries – as Rabbi Soloveitchik put it so convincingly in ‘The Lonely Man of Faith’ – he must ultimately return from his journey into the higher regions of being with a socio-ethical message that is geared to man’s task on earth” (“Judaism and Drugs”, ed. Leo Landman, 1973, 0.141).

The severity of the halachah in its attitude to drugs is unambiguous. This is not to say that we are entitled to be holier than thou, judgmental or condemnatory. An imperative of the halachah is “Love your neighbour as yourself” (Lev. 19:18).

In addressing the drug problem, whatever energies we can harness, as Jews, as concerned citizens, must be utilised constructively and with compassion. And as always we have to exert ourselves to encourage opportunities to “take a trip” in Judaism and our Jewish type of spirituality which is both earth-bound and heaven-bent.



Also I expect Chaim to chime in soon with his policy concerning hallucinegenic drugs...


Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 11:45:03 PM
And let me reiterate... I was a hippie for over 10 years in the 80s and I have done almost all the drugs, not including heroin, extasty, and other 'designer drugs'.... But I have done cocaine and I know about cocaine addiction. It is something you would not wish on an animal. And it is good to prevent people from going down that road. I do not believe in the 'gateway drug' idea in general, but I do believe that once a person has done pot he is willing to do other things, as I did in my early 20s. I did LSD, I did mushrooms, I did crack cocaine, and I did meth... I have tried it and I know the dangers, and thank HASHEM that I survived because I know people who are no longer in this world because of their drug and alcohol problems. I am 46 now and I am proud to say that it has been 20 years since I did those drugs. I had to move away from the bad influences and turn my life towards G-d.

I support medical marijuana because i know it works for my pain. I do not want kids to smoke it because it does lead many to slack off. I think that the laws should allow those whom it helps to get it, and prevents those who do not need it from getting it.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tG6x7PlFaIE/TUJXoHbUhtI/AAAAAAAAAYs/q87K9HhoJ3M/s800/V464_HippieMe_LongBeach_90s_Mod.jpg)
Me with my 1964 VW Hippie Van circa 1992
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 07, 2011, 11:48:50 PM
If it is made in a medicine form such as a pill or syrup and regulated like any prescription drug and it helps people survive from certain sicknesses, it should be considered ok.

The problem is that this "legalization" is a complete fraud and is only there to fully legalize it.

Ymach shmam to those who pursue this...

The problem isn't just when someone uses it and then right after puts other people in danger.  The problem is also when you people use it in the privacy of their own home.  I'll be more specific...professionals such as physicians who might have one of your lives in their hands right before a surgery or making an important decision on what medicines you should take.  I'm sorry, Marijuana kills brain cells..it makes people stupider. 

I am all for harsh penalties and fines when it is found in someone's possession or their use.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 07, 2011, 11:57:46 PM
If it is made in a medicine form such as a pill or syrup and regulated like any prescription drug and it helps people survive from certain sicknesses, it should be considered ok.

The problem is that this "legalization" is a complete fraud and is only there to fully legalize it.

Ymach shmam to those who pursue this...

The problem isn't just when someone uses it and then right after puts other people in danger.  The problem is also when you people use it in the privacy of their own home.  I'll be more specific...professionals such as physicians who might have one of your lives in their hands right before a surgery or making an important decision on what medicines you should take.  I'm sorry, Marijuana kills brain cells..it makes people stupider.  

I am all for harsh penalties and fines when it is found in someone's possession or their use.


I am sorry I dont agree with that sentiment either. It is relatively harmless and all 'brainiacs' at my High School used it. We were the nerds... One of the fellows I was good friends with in High School graduated #1 in the class, went to Cornell University and eventually worked for DARPA in developing secrets for our military and our government. I also know other great scholars who have used this drug and it does not effect all the same way. Much more research needs to be done into this.

I can tell from experience that I have been able to work on software development not long after having smoked. I also have found that pot was good when I was writing poetry... But its primary use should be for alleviating pain...

I think that there is a problem in the medical profession of doctors who perform surgery while drunk... Maybe you are saying there would be an equal danger, but I don't see it exclusively a problem with pot...
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 12:01:06 AM
I am sorry I dont agree with that sentiment either. It is relatively harmless and all 'brainiacs' at my High School used it. We were the nerds... One of the fellows I was good friends with in High School graduated #1 in the class, went to Cornell University and eventually worked for DARPA in developing secrets for our military and our government. I also know other great scholars who have used this drug and it does not effect all the same way. Much more research needs to be done into this.

I can tell from experience that I have been able to work on software development not long after having smoked. I also have found that pot was good when I was writing poetry... But its primary use should be for alleviating pain...



Muman, it's associate with immoral behavior...It's wrong to do.  I have never smoked a cigarette or pot ever my whole life and have no intention of ever starting..>But do you know I never did it?  Because it was wrong to do it..and it made me unpopular in high school etc for never following the crowd.

Simply said, I would go crazy if any of my children, Gd forbid, tried it...Would you accept it if your child tried something this harmful?  It's not ok...It should never be ok.

And I understand you had a past. But you turned it around and so all is well.  But it's not ok...there is no grey here..it's a black or white issue...
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Meerkat on August 08, 2011, 12:07:15 AM
If it is made in a medicine form such as a pill or syrup and regulated like any prescription drug and it helps people survive from certain sicknesses, it should be considered ok.

The problem is that this "legalization" is a complete fraud and is only there to fully legalize it.

Ymach shmam to those who pursue this...

The problem isn't just when someone uses it and then right after puts other people in danger.  The problem is also when you people use it in the privacy of their own home.  I'll be more specific...professionals such as physicians who might have one of your lives in their hands right before a surgery or making an important decision on what medicines you should take.  I'm sorry, Marijuana kills brain cells..it makes people stupider. 

I am all for harsh penalties and fines when it is found in someone's possession or their use.


we have penalties for people who are intoxicated while they need to be totally sober because of life risk (driving and stuff), we can and should do the same for pot
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 08, 2011, 12:09:55 AM
Muman, it's associate with immoral behavior...It's wrong to do.  I have never smoked a cigarette or pot ever my whole life and have no intention of ever starting..>But do you know I never did it?  Because it was wrong to do it..and it made me unpopular in high school etc for never following the crowd.

Simply said, I would go crazy if any of my children, Gd forbid, tried it...Would you accept it if your child tried something this harmful?  It's not ok...It should never be ok.

And I understand you had a past. But you turned it around and so all is well.  But it's not ok...there is no grey here..it's a black or white issue...

I know that there are varying levels of danger and no matter how much you want to protect your children they are on their own in the end. I have had this issue with my mother who was the most anti-Drug woman there is. We had massive problems when I was a teenager and ultimately I moved to the West Coast to get away from my mother and live with my Dad in California. Anyway, to make a long story short, we must have accurate scientific information which I don't believe we have.

I have seen contradicting medical evidence that there are many benefits from smoking aside from pain.

But it is best to not do it in the first place. Addiction is a terrible thing to be caught up in...


Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 08, 2011, 12:14:48 AM
"One who smokes and knows that it causes cancer is violating a mitzvah"
Agreed 100%

But what about if he eats it or vaporizes it there is no cancer risk there.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 08, 2011, 12:17:44 AM
If it is made in a medicine form such as a pill or syrup and regulated like any prescription drug and it helps people survive from certain sicknesses, it should be considered ok.

The problem is that this "legalization" is a complete fraud and is only there to fully legalize it.

Ymach shmam to those who pursue this...

The problem isn't just when someone uses it and then right after puts other people in danger.  The problem is also when you people use it in the privacy of their own home.  I'll be more specific...professionals such as physicians who might have one of your lives in their hands right before a surgery or making an important decision on what medicines you should take.  I'm sorry, Marijuana kills brain cells..it makes people stupider.  

I am all for harsh penalties and fines when it is found in someone's possession or their use.


Dr Dan,
Weed does not kill brain cells , but it does cause amotivational syndrome. If you can show us evidence to the contrary, that would be cool.

2.Please why do you think they have to be in pill form like marinol so they can put a patent on it, you can just eat the plant.

3. Why do you think harsh penalties should be enforced. What if you have a son in college and he has big dreams like you did in school, would you really want your son locked up for 2 years (that is the law in some states) and ruin his life for a stupid plant that make you giggle little and hungry?  Really? You would want that on citizens ? I worked in the NYPD as saw many good citizens because criminals because of this.
Don't you think that is cruel and unusual punishment ( thus unconstitutional)

I may not be the voice of wisdom on this forum, but I think I speak for the little people that are being bullied by the cops. You are a very intelligent person please elaborate.

I will say that if a Dr however gets caught doing it he should be punished because peoples lives are in his hands , but only if on the Job, not on vacation.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Canuckguy on August 08, 2011, 02:20:59 AM
Say What?
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Sveta on August 08, 2011, 03:54:36 AM
Many people smoke pot once in a while in the weekends then go back to work, do a good job, pay their taxes, pay their bills and are productive citizens. I'm sick of the demonizing of marijuana and don't care what people say. It's becoming an infraction in some places where if you get caught with a miniscule amount you just get a little fine and that's it, not even a crime anymore in this state Why in the world would peaceful pot users go to prison, why in the world would people want that. Putting regular people who enjoy a little toke on the weekend once a year or once every other month to chill out and otherwise remain clean the rest of their time being productive citizens be throw in into violent prisons with murderers and rapists. You think the prospect of being thrown in a prison and becoming an inmate's b*tch is deterring more and more Americans from trying pot because it's not. Lots of people are in favor of medical marijuana and many do not want to bring criminal charges against ordinary citizens who use it for enjoyment like alcohol. Sure pot head bums are bad because they are a waste on society but a growing number of hardworking tax paying americans are waking up to the fact that once upon a time marijuana was legal in the USA and was like drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco. i hate the idea of seeing good people end up in prison with a criminal record for having a tiny amount of plant. Must be great for people to judge and be on a pedestal while in fact the tobacco and alcohol companies get rich off alcoholics who drive while drunk or giving people lung cancer and addicted from nicotine.
It's not heroin, it's not making people go out on murderous shooting sprees or turning them into meth crack head junkies. This is not cocaine or speed. It shrinks cancer cells, it help people with glaucoma. It's not going to destroy all morals and values, I laugh at the parents who find a joint in their college son's room and act like it's the end of the world. I agree with being people harsh sentences for coke or speed or meth because they put society at risk. I agree with super harsh sentences to people who sell pot to kids. But if someone is in their room alone on a Saturday night at 11pm and tokes up a little bit and watches a tv show and laughs their bum off to the point of rolling on the floor laughing then falls asleep and have the best night rest and wake up feeling happy and refreshed and ready for another week of hard work and paying bills. All while putting no one at risk... but then have some strangers call them a criminal and say that they should got to jail for this then I feel I may be in the wrong place. And feel free to ban me if you want. :(
People can call me anything they want or be against me. That's people's opinions no big deal.
Take care everyone. Peace out. Israel for ever!!

BTW this guy receives legal pot from the federal government. For 25 years. So far no lung cancer, no dead brain cells, he's not a looser or jobless  bum. He's a successful stock broker with a family and a home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bvhz08N2Ic&feature=related
So I guess marijuana did NOT destroy his life
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 06:21:13 AM
"One who smokes and knows that it causes cancer is violating a mitzvah"
Agreed 100%

But what about if he eats it or vaporizes it there is no cancer risk there.

There is a risk to the lungs and the gums (those I know for sure).

Hookas are also. You shouldn't put crap in your lungs
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 06:35:00 AM
Dr Dan,
Weed does not kill brain cells , but it does cause amotivational syndrome. If you can show us evidence to the contrary, that would be cool.

2.Please why do you think they have to be in pill form like marinol so they can put a patent on it, you can just eat the plant.

3. Why do you think harsh penalties should be enforced. What if you have a son in college and he has big dreams like you did in school, would you really want your son locked up for 2 years (that is the law in some states) and ruin his life for a stupid plant that make you giggle little and hungry?  Really? You would want that on citizens ? I worked in the NYPD as saw many good citizens because criminals because of this.
Don't you think that is cruel and unusual punishment ( thus unconstitutional)

I may not be the voice of wisdom on this forum, but I think I speak for the little people that are being bullied by the cops. You are a very intelligent person please elaborate.

I will say that if a Dr however gets caught doing it he should be punished because peoples lives are in his hands , but only if on the Job, not on vacation.

1. Don't be naive. Marijuana messes you up. Maybe not like heroin or other prescription pills.  However permanent damage is done whenever it is used.  Don't let pro pot liberals make you think of it otherwise. They are lying because they want you to be like them to justify immoral behavior.

2. If it can be in a pill form people will associate it as a medicine.

3. A harsh penalty could be a huge fine and not necessarily jail. You want government revenue? This is how you get it. And yes, if my kid got caught doing this, he's getting punished severely by me and my wife big time.  No social life for him. 99% of the time his friends encouraged this crap on him. anyone with big dreams should know better not to do this thing.
What did Gd do to adam and eve just by eating a fruit they shouldn't have been eating? Aren't we made in He's image? Why whitewash pot just because you use it or used it or are curious about trying it? No means no.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 06:44:30 AM
And let me make another point.  We are holy jtfers here.  We believe in holy causes. If you use it as festival purposes, stop using it. Even if it becomes legal don't use it. You will be a hypocrite for the holy things this movement stand for.

I'm not saying, "its either pot or jtf". I'm saying think about what I'm saying here next time you choose to light that joint or eat a brownie.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 08:42:23 AM
Let me say one more thing about pot use. It is low class. I don't care how rich how educated how successful how religious how prestigious somebody might be. To me, if I see that person smoke pot, my respect for that person becomes significantly less. 

If there was a rabbi who I admired and he smoked pot, his relevance to me as a holy person would be less no matter how influential and learned he might be.

If he experimented and realized it was a mistake and took my stance, it would be like he made tschuva.

So I say to my jtf brothers and sisters, I say it out of love because you are my brothers and sisters, don't do it don't white wash it. For your own good of your health and soul and holiness that has joined jtf for the fight of our lives for survival and a new holy world and an eradication of evil, don't do drugs don't smoke pot don't encourage its use even if it is legalized.  The values you stand for in jtf will matter less to people. Your message will be less effective.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: cjd on August 08, 2011, 10:17:09 AM
If it is made in a medicine form such as a pill or syrup and regulated like any prescription drug and it helps people survive from certain sicknesses, it should be considered ok.

The problem is that this "legalization" is a complete fraud and is only there to fully legalize it.

Ymach shmam to those who pursue this...

The problem isn't just when someone uses it and then right after puts other people in danger.  The problem is also when you people use it in the privacy of their own home.  I'll be more specific...professionals such as physicians who might have one of your lives in their hands right before a surgery or making an important decision on what medicines you should take.  I'm sorry, Marijuana kills brain cells..it makes people stupider. 

I am all for harsh penalties and fines when it is found in someone's possession or their use.

I have to agree with Dr. Dan's statement here about the medical marijuana program being put in place in some parts of the country... I have seen many accounts in the news that state that the program is is being overrun by drug users... Over the years  we have seen enough information on this substance to know it needs to be regulated... I think its OK for it's use in certain cases to help people who are sick and suffering however it seems that doctors are all to quick in writing an Rx for almost anyone that complains enough...  Personally I have never messed with the stuff  and take the position of benign neglect in my opinion when I see others using it... The thing is this program seems to be a haven for old drug users to continue their usage under a umbrella of legitimacy.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Sveta on August 08, 2011, 10:27:12 AM
Umm ok.. I respect your opinion but I think they're just opinions more than facts and many people are not buying this demonizing anymore, 100 million Americans to be exact. Psh lower opinion, whatever I have a lower opinion on some people. It's not the end of the world it'll be legal some day
*moves to Amsterdam and waves goodbye*
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 10:53:31 AM
Umm ok.. I respect your opinion but I think they're just opinions more than facts and many people are not buying this demonizing anymore, 100 million Americans to be exact. Psh lower opinion, whatever I have a lower opinion on some people. It's not the end of the world it'll be legal some day
*moves to Amsterdam and waves goodbye*

People are not demonizing homosexuality anymore either and its legal to get married to the same sex.it still doesn't make it right.

Don't let potheads get the best of you.  Drop the the habit. Its not worth it.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Sveta on August 08, 2011, 11:00:03 AM
One last thing, if people are stupid enough to smoke joints then yeah they're going to get nasty diseases considering most joints contain tobacco beside pot but that's why they make vaporizers.
Anyways I'm not swayed. I pay my bills, hold a good job, so does my boyfriend and we're not junkies so nope. His parents know, my mom knows so far no family chaos, no life destroyed. Everything's normal on this side. Kids should not do it but we're well into our 20s and 30s we're old enough to make up our own decisions.
So nope not happening.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 11:11:05 AM
One last thing, if people are stupid enough to smoke joints then yeah they're going to get nasty diseases considering most joints contain tobacco beside pot but that's why they make vaporizers.
Anyways I'm not swayed. I pay my bills, hold a good job, so does my boyfriend and we're not junkies so nope. His parents know, my mom knows so far no family chaos, no life destroyed. Everything's normal on this side. Kids should not do it but we're well into our 20s and 30s we're old enough to make up our own decisions.
So nope not happening.

This is addiction....and just because one's parents are ok with it still doesn't make it right..it makes it even worse for the parents..
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Rubystars on August 08, 2011, 11:14:16 AM
I think using it for recreation is dirty. I wish both tobacco and marijuana were banned from Israel because Israel isn't supposed to be like other nations. It's supposed to be a holy place. I don't think people should go to jail for using them but I do think there should be some kind of penalty for it. The medical marijuana arguments do have some merit but obviously the programs need to be watched a lot more closely to minimize problems.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 11:38:10 AM
Israeli Heart

I'm going to challenge you in one respect here.  The money that you spend on pot, donate to JTF/VGA to help the hilltop youth.  For every joint that you need to have, use that money instead to help the settlers.


The same challenge are for other JTFers here who use pot (even once in awhile even if legal), or who even smoke cigarettes and want to quit.  Take that money that you would waste on killing yourself slowly, and give it to the settlers and the hilltop youth who need it to survive and help Israel survive.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: cjd on August 08, 2011, 02:21:54 PM
Umm ok.. I respect your opinion but I think they're just opinions more than facts and many people are not buying this demonizing anymore, 100 million Americans to be exact. Psh lower opinion, whatever I have a lower opinion on some people. It's not the end of the world it'll be legal some day
*moves to Amsterdam and waves goodbye*
:::D Yes, Amsterdam is the right place for things like that... Don't let the door hit you in the tuckus.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 08, 2011, 02:42:04 PM
Dr Dan makes some good points but I know to many successful and healthy people to be able to agree with him
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 05:16:14 PM
Dr Dan makes some good points but I know to many successful and healthy people to be able to agree with him

There are a lot of people who are "healthy" in so many ways than one that once in awhile use pot or smoke cigarettes or whatever.  Probably nothing will happen to them...but is it worth the risk?  Is it worth the risk of driving 100 mph once in awhile on a highway to get home faster?  Nothing could happen, but something deadly could happen.  Is it worth secretly eating something nonkosher?  Nothing will probably happen after eating it, but is it worth the risk for later on in heaven? What's the point of rebelling?  Look what Adam and Eve did and it was just for a piece of fruit...they lost EVERYTHING.

Nobody's perfect..i get it...but when you don't do what the crowd does if it is something bad, it builds character.  And when someone builds good positive character, they have more class. And it's not about how rich you are or the type of car you drive or the clothes you wear. It's not just about the amount of education you have or the job you have. It's not about how pious and religious you are either.  It's about not doing what the crowd does if what the crowd is doing is bad and it puts your popularity at risk and you decide, "Forget it. I'm not going to do what the crowd is doing because it's wrong. And I don't care if it makes me unpopular and a recluse."

I know where I come from.  I was unpopular because I didn't do what the crowd did and have no regrets.  People look up to me because I have class.  Some respect me now unlike before because I stuck to my guns and didn't do the wrong thing even though the crowd did it.  Why do you think I'm drawn to JTF?  For once I can believe in something that might be unpopular, but is right...and through that confidence encourage others to reconsider their old ways. 

So what does the crowd have to do with the use of pot?  Well, most people try pot because somebody else encouraged them to try it.  Very few people go out on their own just to use it.  Pot is associated with bad behavior of the crowd or bad behavior coming from a culture.  Chai, you are good Jew.  Don't do what the crowd does anymore.  Set yourself apart. Be proud of who you are..and that will give you prestige. 

American culture is horrible when it comes down to things like this.  Any American that smokes pot reduces his/her class to people who are more powerful and important.  So it's not just you, Chai..it's for anyone who is reading this thread.



Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 08, 2011, 05:40:48 PM
You make a good argument , and what you say about Adam and eve is deep. But the question is, does it really kill braincells? I am in the mental health field, and I really can't find anything that corroborates this. I did find a study  that states it "changes" the brain but that remains  be studied. Smoking any herb does  increase the likelihood of cancer, i am aware of that ,but there are studies that show vapor however drastically reduces tar to negligible amounts. Cannabis is also mentioned in tanach as canibusim as well as cloves, both drugs in Its own right.





There are a lot of people who are "healthy" in so many ways than one that once in awhile use pot or smoke cigarettes or whatever.  Probably nothing will happen to them...but is it worth the risk?  Is it worth the risk of driving 100 mph once in awhile on a highway to get home faster?  Nothing could happen, but something deadly could happen.  Is it worth secretly eating something nonkosher?  Nothing will probably happen after eating it, but is it worth the risk for later on in heaven? What's the point of rebelling?  Look what Adam and Eve did and it was just for a piece of fruit...they lost EVERYTHING.

Nobody's perfect..i get it...but when you don't do what the crowd does if it is something bad, it builds character.  And when someone builds good positive character, they have more class. And it's not about how rich you are or the type of car you drive or the clothes you wear. It's not just about the amount of education you have or the job you have. It's not about how pious and religious you are either.  It's about not doing what the crowd does if what the crowd is doing is bad and it puts your popularity at risk and you decide, "Forget it. I'm not going to do what the crowd is doing because it's wrong. And I don't care if it makes me unpopular and a recluse."

I know where I come from.  I was unpopular because I didn't do what the crowd did and have no regrets.  People look up to me because I have class.  Some respect me now unlike before because I stuck to my guns and didn't do the wrong thing even though the crowd did it.  Why do you think I'm drawn to JTF?  For once I can believe in something that might be unpopular, but is right...and through that confidence encourage others to reconsider their old ways.  

So what does the crowd have to do with the use of pot?  Well, most people try pot because somebody else encouraged them to try it.  Very few people go out on their own just to use it.  Pot is associated with bad behavior of the crowd or bad behavior coming from a culture.  Chai, you are good Jew.  Don't do what the crowd does anymore.  Set yourself apart. Be proud of who you are..and that will give you prestige.  

American culture is horrible when it comes down to things like this.  Any American that smokes pot reduces his/her class to people who are more powerful and important.  So it's not just you, Chai..it's for anyone who is reading this thread.




Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 08, 2011, 05:46:25 PM
I also don't agree that whether one smokes or not affects what 'class' he is considered in... I have known some 'High Class' people who have smoked. The whole process of making Pot illegal stemmed from the accusation that Blacks were smoking it and thus it got a 'lower class' stigma.... But that is no longer the case today.

I do think that there are negatives which are involved with becoming addicted to anything and that it may interfere with study and activities.

I don't think we will resolve this question in this forum though. We all have different experiences and that is what this comes down to.

Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 06:51:43 PM
I am astounded that jtfers who use pot are basically proud of it instead of ashamed of using it recreationally.

And it has nothing to do with black people that makes it low class. it's a huge turn off. Anything of value that you need to say about anything becomes marginalized because of it.  jtfers should never use pot.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: muman613 on August 08, 2011, 06:58:03 PM
I am astounded that jtfers who use pot are basically proud of it instead of ashamed of using it recreationally.

And it has nothing to do with black people that makes it low class. it's a huge turn off. Anything of value that you need to say about anything becomes marginalized because of it.  jtfers should never use pot.

I am simply saying that the negatives have been overblown for so long. This is one reason that many youths are now supporting full legalization {which I have said many times I am against}. I believe that the truth lies somewhere in between the two views.

I do not recommend that anyone get involved with it. It would be best if we could concentrate on those things which need our attention. I feel that when Moshiach comes and we all are working together for the common good of the Kingdom of Hashem there will be no need for any medication.

I am not 'proud' nor 'activist' in my stance on MJ... I just want to be honest and compassionate to those in real pain.


Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 07:05:31 PM
I am simply saying that the negatives have been overblown for so long. This is one reason that many youths are now supporting full legalization {which I have said many times I am against}. I believe that the truth lies somewhere in between the two views.

I do not recommend that anyone get involved with it. It would be best if we could concentrate on those things which need our attention. I feel that when Moshiach comes and we all are working together for the common good of the Kingdom of Hashem there will be no need for any medication.

I am not 'proud' nor 'activist' in my stance on MJ... I just want to be honest and compassionate to those in real pain.




I'm sure there are medical uses for it. I'm not against it if it is legitimate. I'm against is recreational uses.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 08, 2011, 07:14:37 PM
I just dont understand how the entire world got along for 60000 years of written history before  Uncle Sam came along and decided for us that this plant is now illegal. It was all around the Jews of ancient Israel as a native plant in the region. The talmud discussed every thing from a-z to the tiniest speck, why not this? I'm sure ancient Jews regarded it as a medicinal herb and didn't think more of it.,
Again this plant had been used for over 5000 years, we dont have the entire human race pot head zombie's LOL. The world got around fine without the DEA and will ultimately be a better place without those evil thugs. Smoking pot once in awhile is nothing to be ashamed of or proud of , its as bad as drinking coffee which mind you is even more addicting and worse for your health. I am weary of it for recreational use but that is a higher dosage.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: The proud Jew on August 08, 2011, 08:09:00 PM
The torah states that if a jew is living in exile he must follow the rules of that land. So thats why I do not smoke. I approve it for sick people but I wouldn't have a problem if the country legalizes pot because it would take the criminal aspects out of the trade and save peoples lives. Alcohol was made legal after prohibition then the al capones were nowhere to be found.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Meerkat on August 08, 2011, 08:12:14 PM
I am astounded that jtfers who use pot are basically proud of it instead of ashamed of using it recreationally.

And it has nothing to do with black people that makes it low class. it's a huge turn off. Anything of value that you need to say about anything becomes marginalized because of it.  jtfers should never use pot.

i don't smoke pot, i just don't think it should be illegal
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 08, 2011, 10:19:59 PM
I just dont understand how the entire world got along for 60000 years of written history before  Uncle Sam came along and decided for us that this plant is now illegal. It was all around the Jews of ancient Israel as a native plant in the region. The talmud discussed every thing from a-z to the tiniest speck, why not this? I'm sure ancient Jews regarded it as a medicinal herb and didn't think more of it.,
Again this plant had been used for over 5000 years, we dont have the entire human race pot head zombie's LOL. The world got around fine without the DEA and will ultimately be a better place without those evil thugs. Smoking pot once in awhile is nothing to be ashamed of or proud of , its as bad as drinking coffee which mind you is even more addicting and worse for your health. I am weary of it for recreational use but that is a higher dosage.

Polygamy and rape were also common...it doesn't make it right.  Aren't humans supposed to evolve and become better and not do things just because it was done long ago?  I believe smoking pot is one of them.

Again, if there are legitimate reasons to use it to survive and used with care like any medicine should, I don't have a problem with it.  Unfortunately the culture of this country writes off pot use...we are in evil times.
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Chai on August 09, 2011, 01:23:40 PM
Polygamy and rape were also common...it doesn't make it right.  Aren't humans supposed to evolve and become better and not do things just because it was done long ago?  I believe smoking pot is one of them.

Again, if there are legitimate reasons to use it to survive and used with care like any medicine should, I don't have a problem with it.  Unfortunately the culture of this country writes off pot use...we are in evil times.

We are living in evil times god help us. You know there is a shiduch crisis 25% of Jewish women will never get married as there are more women out there ,plus men are more prone to drug use ,crime and have more preside for high paying jobs. Maybe we should I feel bad for these women
Title: Re: Medical marijuana in israel?
Post by: Dr. Dan on August 09, 2011, 01:31:36 PM
We are living in evil times G-d help us. You know there is a shiduch crisis 25% of Jewish women will never get married as there are more women out there ,plus men are more prone to drug use ,crime and have more preside for high paying jobs. Maybe we should I feel bad for these women


It's not only that. There are a lot of bad marriages out there and people marrying for the wrong reasons..or wrong expectations in marriage.  Our culture lacks morality and Gd..

A lot of people are single too long and so when they get married they forget they are a unit..it's getting passed this, in my opinion that will more likely create a successful healthy marriage.