JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chaim Ben Pesach on October 04, 2011, 02:17:32 AM
-
בס''ד
Aryeh Deri, the extremely evil former leader of the corrupt Shas party who spent four years in prison for extortion and bribery, has called for the murder of the Jewish members of "Tag Mechir", the freedom-fighting underground group that allegedly firebombed a Muslim Nazi terrorist mosque. The same traitor Deri supported the Arab Hitler Yasser Arafat and the terrorist mass murderers of the PLO and Fatah. This video exposes this monstrous hypocrite along with the vile Yesha Council and Chaim Druckman who are urging Jews to inform on Tag Mechir.
Please "like", favorite and comment. You can get to the youtube/zootube site to help us promote the video by double-clicking below. Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtKy4ipg49U
-
Erev rav.
-
Where does Rabbi Ovadia Yosef stand on Price Tag?
-
YUCK it makes me sick to my stomach, I knew some people in (I don't want to say where) in Israel who were defending Deri as a "talmid chacham" who just got caught up in some bad stuff but is a good person, everyone in politics does what he did but he got singled out bla bla bla etc etc, THEY ARE SICK defending this criminal and he is a disgusting piece of filth!
(And by the way , the person I'm talking about that told me about how pious and righteous Deri is, is a well-known modern orthodox rabbi and his wife!)
-
Where does Rabbi Ovadia Yosef stand on Price Tag?
didn't ovadia kesef support the sinai retreat? let this help you guess where he stands (im not too sure though)
-
I have looked it up on A7. This guy seems to have a special relationship to Muslims.
-
(And by the way , the person I'm talking about that told me about how pious and righteous Deri is, is a well-known modern orthodox rabbi and his wife!)
And then modorths wonder why people hate them
-
didn't ovadia kesef support the sinai retreat? let this help you guess where he stands (im not too sure though)
He supports whatever the Israeli government wants because that's where he gets his paychecks
-
Btw shas now supports releasing arab terrorist murderers from prisons and calls it a mitzvah.
-
:::D
-
Is this guy still in politics?
-
I would like to see this video made in English soo I can show it to all my Sefardi brothers who think Shas is their to save them from the "all powerful-askenasim".
-
Chaim,
Many Orthodox Jews believe the Shas propaganda that this guy was "framed' by the Israeli govt.
Mishpacha magazine and other haredi mouthpieces have written up large articles explaining that Deri was targeted by the govt and the so-called tzaddik never did anything wrong.
How do we refute this garbage?
-
Chaim,
Many Orthodox Jews believe the Shas propaganda that this guy was "framed' by the Israeli govt.
Mishpacha magazine and other haredi mouthpieces have written up large articles explaining that Deri was targeted by the govt and the so-called tzaddik never did anything wrong.
How do we refute this garbage?
I don't speak for Chaim, but perhaps what would give it away is how he openly stats his things against Jews and the Jewish cause (for example what he said against Tag-Mahir, how he supported oslo, what he did to Jews wanting to make Aliya, check Chaims post above, etc.) Its like in Pirki Avot it says to Judge everyone favorably. UNLESS one is known to be a Rasha, he/she looses that privilege and we can and should rely upon this as well (even though we dont rely on the israeli court system at all), but we can easily assume that he did make fraudulent things because of his past and even future of what he represents and does.
-
Chaim,
Many Orthodox Jews believe the Shas propaganda that this guy was "framed' by the Israeli govt.
Mishpacha magazine and other haredi mouthpieces have written up large articles explaining that Deri was targeted by the govt and the so-called tzaddik never did anything wrong.
How do we refute this garbage?
It sounds like some of these Shas supporters are no different from Ron Paul robots--their hero can do absolutely no wrong. They are probably a lost cause unless G-d himself intervenes to shake some sense into them.
-
It sounds like some of these Shas supporters are no different from Ron Paul robots--their hero can do absolutely no wrong. They are probably a lost cause unless G-d himself intervenes to shake some sense into them.
In Israel (according to the media). Shas, Likud, Israel Beiteinu are all "Right-wing".
One can actually start admiring some of these parties (not knowing what they really stand for) just by having scumm in Haaretz and Meretz talk soo much against them.
-
It sounds like some of these Shas supporters are no different from Ron Paul robots--their hero can do absolutely no wrong. They are probably a lost cause unless G-d himself intervenes to shake some sense into them.
It's not even shas supporters really, in this case. It's actually just the Orthodox Jewish establishment, who claim him as "one of their own" since he's a haredi Jew with a black hat, even though the people writing the articles and the groups that produce this publication in no way follow Sephardic rabbis or go along with anything Rabbi O. Yosef says.
There have been many instances in the past of the frum establishment trying to cover up for frum criminals because it shames the community (so they try to claim they did nothing wrong, so that people will think there is no corruption in the frum society or that people will not target their community over it, or members within will not lose faith in rabbis or the Torah ideals). In some cases it's been truly evil behavior because covering up these crimes led to the same criminals committing the same crimes over and over again on helpless victims. However in some cases, they really do expose unfair treatment of frum criminals (such as the chabad Rabbi Rubashkin, who got an excessive sentence by an antisemitic court).
So how do we determine when these kind of reports are honest and telling the truth, and when it is just the same old reflexive "defend the frum person at all costs" puff pieces trying to stand up for the honor of orthodox communities by covering up criminals? I think tag mechir's comment could be right, since he says these horrific things about settlers and he was an Oslo supporter and Arafat supporter, it's pretty easy not to believe it when they excuse the criminal behavior he went to jail for. But how to actually refute it with the facts? I don't believe the public is really privy to the facts in the case of his extortion and bribery that he committed as a Shas politician. And of course we all know the Israeli govt is evil and a framejob is not at all beyond something they would do. - So that makes it harder to convince people about this issue.
-
This sounds like it is a field that is out of my field of expertise/knowledge/understanding so I don't really have much to say but of course I feel that criminals should be held accountable for their actions regardless of how "religious" they appear or claim to be. However my guess is that this guy wouldn't have his legions of defenders and yes-men if he weren't an anti-Zionist Charedi. He is a "useful idiot" so to speak (not that I believe these people are idiots at all, they know exactly what they are doing it) for the Jew-hating establishment and media of Israel that Shas is a big part of. (Didn't ROY himself once claim that the Arabs are the brothers of the Jews and that we should seek to spare their lives if possible?)
And, while we are at it, didn't many of these alleged devout Orthodox Jewish voices denounce HaRav (ztl) when he was alive?
-
This sounds like it is a field that is out of my field of expertise/knowledge/understanding so I don't really have much to say
That's correct.
They are not considered "anti-zionist" that's for sure. You are mixing things up. They are part of the "zionist congress" or whatever, but the problem is they are doing what the "zionists" are telling them to do.
And how much I don't agree with Rabbi Ovadia Yosef's positions on these issues, we cant accuse him of being an arab lover, don't you know the statements he got in heat with the leftists about (arabs).
Anyway Shas and ROY are different things. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef pretty much study's all day (and all night). He is not in the office taking care of political things. He doesn't even have official students, nor a Yeshiva or anything. It could be that their is manipulation of Rabbis going on (as happened in this generation and in the past as well- as attested by big Rabbis like Rabbi Frank ZTL). BUT Shas is apart from Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. Rav Bar Haim Shalitta vehemently disagrees with ROY on the issue of "land for Peace", but gives him the honor he deserves though with the Shlitta. Soo lets not confuse the issues and mix things up. Shas is a different story and the individuals like Deri is a different story as well.
-
And, while we are at it, didn't many of these alleged devout Orthodox Jewish voices denounce HaRav (ztl) when he was alive?
What? Rabbi Kahane ZTL HYD was Orthodox. I don't understand your deal. Are you not Torah observant? Actually come to think of it I sense your not Jewish, am I wrong? (Its just how you come across in these sentences).
-
What? Rabbi Kahane ZTL HYD was Orthodox. I don't understand your deal. Are you not Torah observant? Actually come to think of it I sense your not Jewish, am I wrong? (Its just how you come across in these sentences).
He is not Jewish... But he is an honorable member of JTF...
Actually my experience is that most Orthodox rabbis I talk to here on the west coast of America have good things to say about Rabbi Kahane. Or maybe the rabbis know better than to say something negative about Rabbi Kahane once I bring up the topic :)
-
What? Rabbi Kahane ZTL HYD was Orthodox. I don't understand your deal. Are you not Torah observant? Actually come to think of it I sense your not Jewish, am I wrong? (Its just how you come across in these sentences).
Where did I ever claim that I am?
What I was saying was that during his lifetime, most of the Jewish establisment (including the frum establishment) opposed HaRav to his face. Yes some (not all) have changed their tune now but his life was filled with nothing but backstabs from the so-called "Orthodox". If you don't believe me you should ask Chaim.
-
Where did I ever claim that I am?
What I was saying was that during his lifetime, most of the Jewish establisment (including the frum establishment) opposed HaRav to his face. Yes some (not all) have changed their tune now but his life was filled with nothing but backstabs from the so-called "Orthodox". If you don't believe me you should ask Chaim.
This is very true... The Rabbi was not supported as he should have been...
-
What? Rabbi Kahane ZTL HYD was Orthodox. I don't understand your deal. Are you not Torah observant? Actually come to think of it I sense your not Jewish, am I wrong? (Its just how you come across in these sentences).
But he is correct that some of the Orthodox rabbis condemned Rav Kahane.
-
But he is correct that some of the Orthodox rabbis condemned Rav Kahane.
I was a little boy at that time but according to Chaim, that "some" was the majority. Yeah a lot of them now support him (or more commonly don't take a position on him either way), but when it mattered, when he was alive, these so-called religious pillars spat in his face.
If these are the same people now who are defending this Shas leader, then I think it is safe to say their opinions carry less weight than a baby duck's down feathers on Mars.
-
But he is correct that some of the Orthodox rabbis condemned Rav Kahane.
Okay, I know, but when I read it I saw it as an attack on the Orthodox. I pointed that Rav Kahane was/is Orthodox and he wrote soo much against other forms. Its just the tone it was said by. But yes its true many leaders of the past and present were/are against Rav Kahane (or at least his tactics). But lets not condemn all the "Orthodox" now. As many of the people here I'm sure are Orthodox practicing Jews.
-
when I read it I saw it as an attack on the Orthodox.
No, it was a comment on how the Jewish establishment is.
-
Okay, I know, but when I read it I saw it as an attack on the Orthodox. I pointed that Rav Kahane was/is Orthodox and he wrote soo much against other forms. Its just the tone it was said by. But yes its true many leaders of the past and present were/are against Rav Kahane (or at least his tactics). But lets not condemn all the "Orthodox" now. As many of the people here I'm sure are Orthodox practicing Jews.
I myself am an Orthodox Jew, but if the majority of fellow orthodx Jews did something wrong ( God forbid), I would not hesitate to point it out. In fact, since I'm a Kahanist I find myself quite frequently disagreeing w a lot of fellow orthodox Jews (at least on beliefs + for example refuting exilic mindset comes about frequently at shabbos tables I attend lol.
-
I myself am an Orthodox Jew, but if the majority of fellow orthodx Jews did something wrong ( G-d forbid), I would not hesitate to point it out. In fact, since I'm a Kahanist I find myself quite frequently disagreeing w a lot of fellow orthodox Jews (at least on beliefs + for example refuting exilic mindset comes about frequently at shabbos tables I attend lol.
Same here. Actually 1 thing I think is best is to not fight head on (argumentative mode). I often don't do it myself (not argue), but its good to insert our ideas in discussions. People ask to speak (make a Dvar Torah) often I connect it to the teachings of Rav Kahane, Rav Bar Chaim, etc. (also because i'm very familiar and know these teachings- its on my mind).
Some people many times need time to "digest" what is correct and being said. Perhaps once things are said after time the same opponents often quote the same exact things later. Soo no one should loose hope, just continue the fight, say the truth obviously and with time the same people will often say the same exact thing!
Actually come to think of it, I think the same goes for the world as well. The world (and Jews) are to be brought closer to G-D, step by step many times.
-
Same here. Actually 1 thing I think is best is to not fight head on (argumentative mode). I often don't do it myself (not argue), but its good to insert our ideas in discussions. People ask to speak (make a Dvar Torah) often I connect it to the teachings of Rav Kahane, Rav Bar Chaim, etc. (also because i'm very familiar and know these teachings- its on my mind).
Some people many times need time to "digest" what is correct and being said. Perhaps once things are said after time the same opponents often quote the same exact things later. Soo no one should loose hope, just continue the fight, say the truth obviously and with time the same people will often say the same exact thing!
Actually come to think of it, I think the same goes for the world as well. The world (and Jews) are to be brought closer to G-D, step by step many times.
I agree with this approach... As I said many times we must learn so that we can teach others. Within my community I make sure we discuss the issues of Israel every week. While many of my friends at minyan started off as center-left politically {on most issues} I feel a distinct shift to more right wing positions concerning Israel and defending the land. While my experience is a microcosm I hope it reflects on the entirety of the Jewish people, so that strong Jewish pride spreads to all corners of a Jews life...
-
No, it was a comment on how the Jewish establishment is.
True.
Also, to tag mechir tzedek: you are new here so it may not be easy to interpret right away from a few comments but I can tell you YMtoJB has been here a long time and his heart is in the right place, he is not trying to attack orthodox Jews.
-
Also, to tag mechir tzedek: you are new here so it may not be easy to interpret right away from a few comments but I can tell you YMtoJB has been here a long time and his heart is in the right place, he is not trying to attack orthodox Jews.
Thank you.
I wasn't offended at all though--as you say, he is new here and he has a right to ask for clarification.