JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Allen-T on June 18, 2007, 02:43:31 PM
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I wanted to ask Chaim about this first, but it would take too long too explain in detail, so I will just ask everyone now about this situation. As some of you know I have this 31 year old neo Nazi brother who is really a piece of dreck. He still lives with my parents taking advantage of them and psychologically abusing them. They now suffer from what I believe they call Stockholm Syndrome, being in complete denial about this. I have not visited my parents home since last 4th of July when a fight almost broke out between Nazi boy and me. I have plainly stated that I will not visit a place where human garbage is lingering and be verbally mocked. Once, a few years ago I snapped when I was there and the end result was me outside my parents home screaming at my brother to come outside, and him just hiding in his room like the faggot that he is, my parents getting angry at me. See they figure I should be like them and let this human toilet disrespect me and my wife. I am always the bad guy in these scenarios. I still talk to my mother and see her as much as possible, which isn't often. Recently I rented a car and took her out for the day. I have stopped speaking to my father for a few reasons; First, my wife called him several months ago to speak about the situation and mentioned that my brother had posted on the internet some really bad lies about my wife, and that she was upset and why did he attack her, the problem is with me. My father had no response and only ranted about how they were angry that their cat "Samantha" is some kind of "internet freakshow" now??!! So I figure he esteems that horrible cat above my wife. Secondly, it seems more and more obvious to me that since my father refuses to demand that my brother leave the premises for 1 weekend a month so we can visit in peace, he just doesn't give a rat's tuchas about me or my wife. My mom is talking to my wife trying to push for the old way where I just show up and let this worthless pile of excrement ridicule and insult us. I say BS, until my father learns how to act like a man and give me some indication he cares one iota, leave things as they are. I have told my mom that if she wants to take the risk, she must understand that the minute my brother opens his mouth once, I begin beating without ceasing, and things will get destroyed[my mom has rare plates & antiques all over]. So then she backs off. It matters not which way things turn out, I am a very cold uncaring person that acts on right and wrong more from a mental than an emotional place. My own son and I have issues as well and these are my thoughts this day after Father's day, and wondering what y'all think? Much advanced thanks to any responders!!!
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I had a friend who was one of the highest Klan guy inthe Norteast however he did'nt dislike Jews if he did too bad i could kick his ass.Any how when his wife and mother found out he quite .Now he is a very religious Christian not due to his wife she's an agnostic but due to his mother. As far as your father saying he did'nt like his cats name on the internet thats harsh
mentioned that my brother had posted on the internet some really bad lies about my wife
thats something i would'nt put up with if you argue with your brother he must'nt drag your wife into it.I think he will eventually straighten himelf out,LIKE MY FRIEND BUT YOU KNOW HIM BETTER
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It seems like with many families, it's always the youngest child that is the most spoiled. And you can't change other people. But it sounds like there's a lot more involved than your neo-Nazi brother still living with your parents at the age of 31.
How do your parents feel about your brother being a neo-Nazi? Do they just shrug it off? Or do they share his views? Do your parents know of your involvement with JTF? If so, what do they think?
Your parents are probably still doting on "their baby." So I would tell them flat out that you and your wife won't be visiting their home unless your brother removes the nasty stuff he posted about your wife on the internet, and apologizes to the two of you, and stops the insults. Telling them to throw your brother out might be a bit much for them for now.
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Wow your family has a lot of very different characters....but i would say there aren't many options apart from accepting or keeping quiet. Let them shout, rant and rave!! Then after you've responded nicely to them, without being aggravated they will feel extremely guilty and things may cool down, when there is nothing left to argue about. The hardest part is trying to fight your own corner but as long as you know you are morally right, it should be clear as ever that you are right and are MR.Nice guy
It depends on self-control....
I frequently have arguements with my parents but i realised its not worth it, if i respond with an arguement backing my point, it just escalates the drama and things edge into choas! However if i just let it pass and let them shout and call me names without responding but looking slightly hurt....they stop after a while and say sorry, even if it doesn't eliminate the fact that issues constantly arise it calms things down a little.
As for your neo-Nazi brother, he is probably a different person when you aren't there, thats why your parents back him up, you just need to "appear" to find him great and let him get on with what he wants to.
If you want it to resolve, the effort would probably have to be exerted from your wife and you.
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It seems like with many families, it's always the youngest child that is the most spoiled. And you can't change other people. But it sounds like there's a lot more involved than your neo-Nazi brother still living with your parents at the age of 31.
How do your parents feel about your brother being a neo-Nazi? Do they just shrug it off? Or do they share his views? Do your parents know of your involvement with JTF? If so, what do they think?
Your parents are probably still doting on "their baby." So I would tell them flat out that you and your wife won't be visiting their home unless your brother removes the nasty stuff he posted about your wife on the internet, and apologizes to the two of you, and stops the insults. Telling them to throw your brother out might be a bit much for them for now.
Hello Lisa and thanks for the comments. My brother is just afraid to leave home. He has buried himself in deep debt so that he will have an ongoing excuse not to leave. My parents just shrug off my brother's stupid ideas. My father has no interest in what I do, and in fact seems angered and annoyed at any successes that come my way, for example that my wife and I got to Europe every year for 3 weeks-month, they perceive that as we are rolling in money when in fact we are just frugal. I learned that from my wife, I, like my parents was a big waster before I met my wife, no bank account, etc. My mom is very reliant on my father, she won't make decisions without him or take a stand for what is right if my father disapproves. My father for some reason is very jealous of me. He perceives that my business of buying old records for a few bucks a piece and reselling them for sometimes several hundred dollars each as dishonest, not making a real living, etc. He was just a blue collar laborer, it's sick really. I want nothing more than for my son to have infinite times more success than me. The evil comments have been removed. Thanks, Lisa.
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Is your brother part of a Neo Nazi group? Aryan Nation? The Klan? How did he become a Neo Nazi like that? Was he brainwashed by some1?
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Wow your family has a lot of very different characters....but i would say there aren't many options apart from accepting or keeping quiet. Let them shout, rant and rave!! Then after you've responded nicely to them, without being aggravated they will feel extremely guilty and things may cool down, when there is nothing left to argue about. The hardest part is trying to fight your own corner but as long as you know you are morally right, it should be clear as ever that you are right and are MR.Nice guy
It depends on self-control....
I frequently have arguements with my parents but i realised its not worth it, if i respond with an arguement backing my point, it just escalates the drama and things edge into choas! However if i just let it pass and let them shout and call me names without responding but looking slightly hurt....they stop after a while and say sorry, even if it doesn't eliminate the fact that issues constantly arise it calms things down a little.
As for your neo-Nazi brother, he is probably a different person when you aren't there, thats why your parents back him up, you just need to "appear" to find him great and let him get on with what he wants to.
If you want it to resolve, the effort would probably have to be exerted from your wife and you.
Well, as I said I don't really care if it's resolved or not, I just want to do what's right. I disagree that letting people abuse you is a good thing....."I am bigger than you because I stand here and take it". I know that the Bible says that when you return good for evil it's like pouring hot coals over the person, this is what you described, I think. But I have never found that to be the case. Any time I, or I have observed others do this, the evil doer just hates you more because his level of disrespect for you goes UP. My father in law is also a vicious hateful pig I don't entertain. During the time that I did entertain him, the more I smiled and listened to his BS, the more vicious he became, so I cut him off totally. He is the only person alive I use that expression Chaim uses "yamak shmo" about. He is really dreck. But I don't use it often, I know I really shouldn't and obviously it gets my wife angry.
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Wow your family has a lot of very different characters....but i would say there aren't many options apart from accepting or keeping quiet. Let them shout, rant and rave!! Then after you've responded nicely to them, without being aggravated they will feel extremely guilty and things may cool down, when there is nothing left to argue about. The hardest part is trying to fight your own corner but as long as you know you are morally right, it should be clear as ever that you are right and are MR.Nice guy
It depends on self-control....
I frequently have arguements with my parents but i realised its not worth it, if i respond with an arguement backing my point, it just escalates the drama and things edge into choas! However if i just let it pass and let them shout and call me names without responding but looking slightly hurt....they stop after a while and say sorry, even if it doesn't eliminate the fact that issues constantly arise it calms things down a little.
As for your neo-Nazi brother, he is probably a different person when you aren't there, thats why your parents back him up, you just need to "appear" to find him great and let him get on with what he wants to.
If you want it to resolve, the effort would probably have to be exerted from your wife and you.
Well, as I said I don't really care if it's resolved or not, I just want to do what's right. I disagree that letting people abuse you is a good thing....."I am bigger than you because I stand here and take it". I know that the Bible says that when you return good for evil it's like pouring hot coals over the person, this is what you described, I think. But I have never found that to be the case. Any time I, or I have observed others do this, the evil doer just hates you more because his level of disrespect for you goes UP. My father in law is also a vicious hateful pig I don't entertain. During the time that I did entertain him, the more I smiled and listened to his BS, the more vicious he became, so I cut him off totally. He is the only person alive I use that expression Chaim uses "yamak shmo" about. He is really dreck. But I don't use it often, I know I really shouldn't and obviously it gets my wife angry.
In that case, follow your brother, catch him doing something very bad -film it-and show your parents as proof. ;D
I think your parents think its only fair if they side with your brother because it makes it equal in terms of you having your wife for support.
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Is your brother part of a Neo Nazi group? Aryan Nation? The Klan? How did he become a Neo Nazi like that? Was he brainwashed by some1?
In a nutshell, the story goes like this; He "found Jesus" allegedly after dating some Pastor's daughter, who was one of the phoniest,evil people I ever met. Hated my wife and I, good christian that she was. This was a Lutheren church, need I say more?? So we tell my brother for years, this woman isn't right for you, why aren't you getting married already, she refuses to pray, read the Bible, practices unbiblical psychological meditating and babbling in tongues, bad news. He keeps telling us to mind our own business, etc. Well eventually she up and dumped him just like we told him would happen. So, next thing I know he's dating a Jewish girl. We met her, lovely girl, but not religious and all over my brother. We tried to show him in the Bible where Jew and Gentile don't date,marry,etc, from both perspectives. Go screw he tells us again. She dumps him, surprise, surprise. Then all this neo nazi stuff started. He's just an arse.
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Is your brother part of a Neo Nazi group? Aryan Nation? The Klan? How did he become a Neo Nazi like that? Was he brainwashed by some1?
In a nutshell, the story goes like this; He "found Jesus" allegedly after dating some Pastor's daughter, who was one of the phoniest,evil people I ever met. Hated my wife and I, good christian that she was. This was a Lutheren church, need I say more?? So we tell my brother for years, this woman isn't right for you, why aren't you getting married already, she refuses to pray, read the Bible, practices unbiblical psychological meditating and babbling in tongues, bad news. He keeps telling us to mind our own business, etc. Well eventually she up and dumped him just like we told him would happen. So, next thing I know he's dating a Jewish girl. We met her, lovely girl, but not religious and all over my brother. We tried to show him in the Bible where Jew and Gentile don't date,marry,etc, from both perspectives. Go screw he tells us again. She dumps him, surprise, surprise. Then all this neo nazi stuff started. He's just an arse.
Well no wonder he has issues!:)
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Allen-T,
Whatever you decide to do, remember that your wife and son are now your priority, not your brother or your parents.
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Cut ties and live your own life. That's the best advice. Only get involved if they make an effort to cause you problems.
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Allen-T,
Whatever you decide to do, remember that your wife and son are now your priority, not your brother or your parents.
Yes, that is my opinion also.
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Allen-T,
Whatever you decide to do, remember that your wife and son are now your priority, not your brother or your parents.
Surely a relationship with such close relatives is in top ranking!
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Allen:
More information needed. What did your brother do? You don't fully explain that to us.
I have no problem believing that your brother is a piece of drek, but at least tell us why.
Just calling him names makes you look like a bully.
I'm sure you have specific reasons. Please explain.
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Hi Allen T - How does your wife feel about all of this? You seem to have a good partner in her. What does she want you to do?
Would your parents come to spend time with you - without your brother present?
I think that sometimes parents give more support to the child they feel is weaker. They are so busy coddling the one child they forget to give some praise and attention to the other. They feel one needs it and one doesn't. It's wrong but they don't even see that they are doing it - it becomes a habit.
You have made a life for yourself - where it sounds like your brother has not.
I don't have advice but I'll keep you in my prayers - I hope you can find peace in whatever decision you decide to make.
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Sounds like a very tough and complicated situation. It sounds way too involved for any of us to give any type of good advice or solutions. It sounds like the type of thing that would be good to talk about with a professional counselor.
What exactly does your brother do that makes him a neo-nazi?
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What's the problem they have with your wife........race, ethnicity, religion?
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I've spent the last 10 minutes pondering on how to respond. Here it goes. You asked for opinions and I'm going to give mine. You can not change your parents minds. If they want to enable the nazi and be taken advantage of, there is nothing you can do about it.You are crap out of luck on this. If I were you , I would simply stay away from your brother. Love your parents,and keep in touch with them.
Some would say "love" will bring your brother around. I'm a Christian, but I believe that he has made his bed, let him lay in it. I don't have to hate the person, I just don't want to be around them or associate with them. On a personal level if my Son decided to be a nazi, i'd run him out of the house, with his clothes packed in a suitcase.
You are in a tough situation, as is your family. Stand your ground and keep your principles. Even if it means the loss of a brother, that in my opinion, is not much of a brother or a family member in the first place.
Don't cause your self more grief, by dealing with a situation that you have no control over. Best of wishes to you and yours, I wish the best for you and yours.
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I am very sorry allen-t, maybe you should call the police to your parents house to do a welfare check.
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Allen-T, I think you should separate your relationship to your brother from your relationship to your parents. Your brother sounds like a piece of work. I am very sorry for you and for your wife, who sounds like a wonderful and worthy lady, to have been exposed to this. But parents cannot choose between their children. In my opinion, you should not involve them in your dispute with your brother - neither appeal to them to intervene, nor give them ultimatums (even though you are the good person in the situation and he is the bad one, of which there is no doubt).
I think you should tell your parents that, given that your brother still lives with them and you cannot stand him nor countenance his views, you can no longer meet with them on their territory. You regret this very much, but this is how it is. But this should not prevent you from seeing them anyway - taking them out for outings and entertaining them in your home. I also believe that you should start talking with your father again and include him in the plans you make with your mother. It is right and proper if you tell him that you find his lack of support of you and your wife very hurtful. He should be made aware of your feelings on these issues in no uncertain terms. But even though he was clearly in the wrong, you should not shut him out of your life. Life is very short, and parents are parents. We owe them a debt of gratitude. It is not uncommon that adult children have conflicts with parents and even serious ideological disagreements. But what can you do? Such is life. :(
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Hi Allen T - How does your wife feel about all of this? You seem to have a good partner in her. What does she want you to do?
Would your parents come to spend time with you - without your brother present?
I think that sometimes parents give more support to the child they feel is weaker. They are so busy coddling the one child they forget to give some praise and attention to the other. They feel one needs it and one doesn't. It's wrong but they don't even see that they are doing it - it becomes a habit.
You have made a life for yourself - where it sounds like your brother has not.
I don't have advice but I'll keep you in my prayers - I hope you can find peace in whatever decision you decide to make.
Thanks you. When my father comes here with my mom, it's always very rushed, he's always looking for the quickest opportunity to leave. You won't believe this, but my 32 year old brother is afraid to take public transportation AND HE IS AS BIG AS ME!!! So, for example, I will make plans in advance with my parents to be here in Brooklyn at noon[they live way out on Long Island]. My brother will tell my father the day before he needs a ride somewhere at 4:00 PM. Rather than tell him to take a freekin bus or the LIRR, they'll show up early and bolt as soon as possible, just so my father can cart this bum somewhere. So I just rent a car now and take my mom out for the day.
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Allen:
More information needed. What did your brother do? You don't fully explain that to us.
I have no problem believing that your brother is a piece of drek, but at least tell us why.
Just calling him names makes you look like a bully.
I'm sure you have specific reasons. Please explain.
I could write extensively here, Scriabin, but I am having some issue with my video software that I need to figure out ASAP, suffice it to say he has been consistantly alternately friendly then aggressive to me for a very long time. He has ripped me off financially, spit in my face in front of my son, is horribly jealous of my business and talks crap about that endlessly even when he's trying to be friendly, and on my wedding day borrowed $200 from me rather than give me a gift, which I gave him. I could go on and on. I have only done good for him. His biggest claim is that when I needed a roomate sometime back I chose a friend instead of him. I had good reason for doing that. His stealing from me later on in the particular situation it happened proved my initial decision about that was correct.
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Hi Allen T - How does your wife feel about all of this? You seem to have a good partner in her. What does she want you to do?
Would your parents come to spend time with you - without your brother present?
I think that sometimes parents give more support to the child they feel is weaker. They are so busy coddling the one child they forget to give some praise and attention to the other. They feel one needs it and one doesn't. It's wrong but they don't even see that they are doing it - it becomes a habit.
You have made a life for yourself - where it sounds like your brother has not.
I don't have advice but I'll keep you in my prayers - I hope you can find peace in whatever decision you decide to make.
Bullcat, my wife wants to see my parents more but agrees with me in general.
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Sounds like a very tough and complicated situation. It sounds way too involved for any of us to give any type of good advice or solutions. It sounds like the type of thing that would be good to talk about with a professional counselor.
What exactly does your brother do that makes him a neo-nazi?
Curses Jews, praises Hitler, keeps Mein Kampf and the Bible side by side, says my support of JTF is actually me wanting to have anal sex with Jews. do I go on?
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What's the problem they have with your wife........race, ethnicity, religion?
My mom loves my wife. My father hates me because of jealousy so he just extends that to her. My wife is a college graduate and an educator. My mom just stayed at home. My wife has undone in me alot of damage they created. I am no longer aimless, without ambition, wasteful & self-indulgent. My parents would never lift a finger to help a stranger. Virtually without exception there have been dozens upon dozens of situations over the years where my parents said...."It's like this" and I would look at the situation and say, "No, It's like this and this is why" and I am ALWAYS right, the outcome is ALWAYS as I predicted. So to my father I am just a "know-it-all". Mind you I have never been arrogant about it, it's always been offered to them out of concern for them.
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I am very sorry allen-t, maybe you should call the police to your parents house to do a welfare check.
I don't believe my brother is physically harming them. They wouldn't be of use to him beaten up. Every attempt on my part to intervene always ends with me being the bad guy. And they will swear that my brother is just wonderful, and he's moving out soon.
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Sorry to hear you have such a problem there. The best thing you could do in my opinion is to avoid seeing your brother at all for now. Have your mom over to your place or go out somewhere now and then and even extend an invitation to your pop. I know from what you say he has not acted wonderfully toward your wife and you however some time together that does not have the pressure of your brothers presence may possibly change things. Problems like this are very hard on parents because they are in a situation often that is hard to change. Yes they could toss your brother out but then they would have that on their mind if he really had no place to go. Possibly they stick up for him because they have to live with him 24- 7 and just don't want to hear him complain or argue with him. You seem to be a person who wants to keep a relationship open with your parents so just avoiding the whole situation is not a preferable option. Have your parents over plan a day that includes activities that your parents like avoid any talk of your brother at all. If you can, show your pop all the money that can be made reselling collectable records which is also great hobby. Above all avoid going over to your parents home unless you know your brother is going to be out for the whole time you are there. With each argument the divide only increases between you and your parents. From the sounds of it you have a great wife and between the two of you you may be able to get this situation resolved with your parents.
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Thanks to everyone for the great responses so far, please keep them coming, if I didn't respond to you yet, please be patient, I have to figure out why my video software is not working properly, this could take all day. Shalom!
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What's the problem they have with your wife........race, ethnicity, religion?
My mom loves my wife. My father hates me because of jealousy so he just extends that to her. My wife is a college graduate and an educater. My mom just stayed at home. My wife has undone in me alot of damage they created. I am no longer aimless, without ambition, wasteful & self-indulgent. My parents would never lift a finger to help a stranger. Virtually without exception there have been dozens upon dozens of situations over the years where my parents said...."It's like this" and I would look at the situation and say, "No, It's like this and this is why" and I am ALWAYS right, the outcome is ALWAYS as I predicted. So to my father I am just a "know-it-all". Mind you I have never been arrogant about it, it's always been offered to them out of concern for them.
Big Al,
Stand by your wife. Firstly, she's more deserving and secondly you have to live with her..... not your folks or brother. Besides, when your an old wreck with heamohroids and a walking frame it's your wife that will comfort you. The other lot will be dead. Jews may have to honour their folks no matter how silly they get, we gentiles don't.
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Sorry to hear you have such a problem there. The best thing you could do in my opinion is to avoid seeing your brother at all for now. Have your mom over to your place or go out somewhere now and then and even extend an invitation to your pop. I know from what you say he has not acted wonderfully toward your wife and you however some time together that does not have the pressure of your brothers presence may possibly change things. Problems like this are very hard on parents because they are in a situation often that is hard to change. Yes they could toss your brother out but then they would have that on their mind if he really had no place to go. Possibly they stick up for him because they have to live with him 24- 7 and just don't want to hear him complain or argue with him. You seem to be a person who wants to keep a relationship open with your parents so just avoiding the whole situation is not a preferable option. Have your parents over plan a day that includes activities that your parents like avoid any talk of your brother at all. If you can, show your pop all the money that can be made reselling collectable records which is also great hobby. Above all avoid going over to your parents home unless you know your brother is going to be out for the whole time you are there. With each argument the divide only increases between you and your parents. From the sounds of it you have a great wife and between the two of you you may be able to get this situation resolved with your parents.
What my father knows about what I do selling records infuriates him. He sees it has making alot of money for not really working. This is not an uncommon attitude towards us record dealers. People think these rarities just fall in our hands everytime we pass a Salvation Army thrift store and we unscruplously put guns to peoples heads and say "buy this for $50 or else". I have been filling my brian with information about records and music since I was a child, and digging for such gold is very time consuming, everybody thinks their records are in "Perfect condition", yet when you drive an hour to check them out they are scratched junk, etc. No, my father would like me more if I was a total loser working a minimum wage job and piled high with debt. My father had a great job with a major airline and would never get me a job there the whole time I was growing up. He clearly demonstrated over time he did not want me doing better than him.
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What's the problem they have with your wife........race, ethnicity, religion?
My mom loves my wife. My father hates me because of jealousy so he just extends that to her. My wife is a college graduate and an educater. My mom just stayed at home. My wife has undone in me alot of damage they created. I am no longer aimless, without ambition, wasteful & self-indulgent. My parents would never lift a finger to help a stranger. Virtually without exception there have been dozens upon dozens of situations over the years where my parents said...."It's like this" and I would look at the situation and say, "No, It's like this and this is why" and I am ALWAYS right, the outcome is ALWAYS as I predicted. So to my father I am just a "know-it-all". Mind you I have never been arrogant about it, it's always been offered to them out of concern for them.
Big Al,
Stand by your wife. Firstly, she's more deserving and secondly you have to live with her..... not your folks or brother. Besides, when your an old wreck with heamohroids and a walking frame it's your wife that will comfort you. The other lot will be dead. Jews may have to honour their folks no matter how silly they get, we gentiles don't.
I believe there are verses in the Bible about honoring your parents that apply to Jew and Christian.
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I think CJD is right. Allen-T feels a need to have a relationship with his parents - because he is a kind human being. It has nothing to do with being Jewish or Gentile.
I think it is amazing that you guys rent a car just so that you can spend time with your Mom.
You are extremely luck to have such an understanding wife. Take strength and your cues on dealing with your family from her. ;)
Sometimes you just have to take what people can give and not beat yourself up over the fact that they can't give more.
Their problems are not with you - it is with the situation that they live in and choices they have made - but you probably feel the brunt of their frustration.
Good Luck fixing your software!
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What's the problem they have with your wife........race, ethnicity, religion?
My mom loves my wife. My father hates me because of jealousy so he just extends that to her. My wife is a college graduate and an educater. My mom just stayed at home. My wife has undone in me alot of damage they created. I am no longer aimless, without ambition, wasteful & self-indulgent. My parents would never lift a finger to help a stranger. Virtually without exception there have been dozens upon dozens of situations over the years where my parents said...."It's like this" and I would look at the situation and say, "No, It's like this and this is why" and I am ALWAYS right, the outcome is ALWAYS as I predicted. So to my father I am just a "know-it-all". Mind you I have never been arrogant about it, it's always been offered to them out of concern for them.
Big Al,
Stand by your wife. Firstly, she's more deserving and secondly you have to live with her..... not your folks or brother. Besides, when your an old wreck with heamohroids and a walking frame it's your wife that will comfort you. The other lot will be dead. Jews may have to honour their folks no matter how silly they get, we gentiles don't.
I believe there are verses in the Bible about honoring your parents that apply to Jew and Christian.
Honouring parents is NOT one of the seven laws of Noah. That's not to say gentileshould dishonour their folks, but we're not bound to. Indeed we can take it onboard as an additional mitzva and get extra blessings.
The reason it only applies to jews is because jews have jewish parents. Righteous gentiles could have parents who were still pagan. If parents of christians or noachides asked them to make an offering to a pagan god they (the kids) would have conflicting obligations.
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Sorry to hear you have such a problem there. The best thing you could do in my opinion is to avoid seeing your brother at all for now. Have your mom over to your place or go out somewhere now and then and even extend an invitation to your pop. I know from what you say he has not acted wonderfully toward your wife and you however some time together that does not have the pressure of your brothers presence may possibly change things. Problems like this are very hard on parents because they are in a situation often that is hard to change. Yes they could toss your brother out but then they would have that on their mind if he really had no place to go. Possibly they stick up for him because they have to live with him 24- 7 and just don't want to hear him complain or argue with him. You seem to be a person who wants to keep a relationship open with your parents so just avoiding the whole situation is not a preferable option. Have your parents over plan a day that includes activities that your parents like avoid any talk of your brother at all. If you can, show your pop all the money that can be made reselling collectable records which is also great hobby. Above all avoid going over to your parents home unless you know your brother is going to be out for the whole time you are there. With each argument the divide only increases between you and your parents. From the sounds of it you have a great wife and between the two of you you may be able to get this situation resolved with your parents.
What my father knows about what I do selling records infuriates him. He sees it has making alot of money for not really working. This is not an uncommon attitude towards us record dealers. People think these rarities just fall in our hands everytime we pass a Salvation Army thrift store and we unscruplously put guns to peoples heads and say "buy this for $50 or else". I have been filling my brian with information about records and music since I was a child, and digging for such gold is very time consuming, everybody thinks their records are in "Perfect condition", yet when you drive an hour to check them out they are scratched junk, etc. No, my father would like me more if I was a total loser working a minimum wage job and piled high with debt. My father had a great job with a major airline and would never get me a job there the whole time I was growing up. He clearly demonstrated over time he did not want me doing better than him.
Record collecting and dealing is quite a bit of work. I use to collect records some years ago before they started to re-release a lot of the stuff I like on Cd's. Not to resell but to have. I still remember flipping through the piles of old records at thrift and junk shops and afterwards having the worst reactions to the dust and mold this stuff had on it from not being stored in the best conditions. Record dealing is as respectable a business as any other if people are willing to pay for something it must mean its worth the price they are paying. Its to bad the way you pop views things and also about him not getting you into the airlines. Until recently and still in some cases they are very good jobs. At any rate thank G-d you have your wife and you have made your way on your own.
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I've spent the last 10 minutes pondering on how to respond. Here it goes. You asked for opinions and I'm going to give mine. You can not change your parents minds. If they want to enable the nazi and be taken advantage of, there is nothing you can do about it.You are crap out of luck on this. If I were you , I would simply stay away from your brother. Love your parents,and keep in touch with them.
Some would say "love" will bring your brother around. I'm a Christian, but I believe that he has made his bed, let him lay in it. I don't have to hate the person, I just don't want to be around them or associate with them. On a personal level if my Son decided to be a nazi, i'd run him out of the house, with his clothes packed in a suitcase.
You are in a tough situation, as is your family. Stand your ground and keep your principles. Even if it means the loss of a brother, that in my opinion, is not much of a brother or a family member in the first place.
Don't cause your self more grief, by dealing with a situation that you have no control over. Best of wishes to you and yours, I wish the best for you and yours.
You've articulated my sentiments about my brother perfectly. Thanks, Mosquewatch.
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Allen-T, I think you should separate your relationship to your brother from your relationship to your parents. Your brother sounds like a piece of work. I am very sorry for you and for your wife, who sounds like a wonderful and worthy lady, to have been exposed to this. But parents cannot choose between their children. In my opinion, you should not involve them in your dispute with your brother - neither appeal to them to intervene, nor give them ultimatums (even though you are the good person in the situation and he is the bad one, of which there is no doubt).
I think you should tell your parents that, given that your brother still lives with them and you cannot stand him nor countenance his views, you can no longer meet with them on their territory. You regret this very much, but this is how it is. But this should not prevent you from seeing them anyway - taking them out for outings and entertaining them in your home. I also believe that you should start talking with your father again and include him in the plans you make with your mother. It is right and proper if you tell him that you find his lack of support of you and your wife very hurtful. He should be made aware of your feelings on these issues in no uncertain terms. But even though he was clearly in the wrong, you should not shut him out of your life. Life is very short, and parents are parents. We owe them a debt of gratitude. It is not uncommon that adult children have conflicts with parents and even serious ideological disagreements. But what can you do? Such is life. :(
Thanks for your comments. I am waiting while my video software re-installs, I hope this corrects the problem. Anyway, I don't think it's so much to expect my father to demand that my brother leave the house one weekend a month. I really enjoy my parents place and so does my wife. I am also finding it nearly impossible to deal with the fact that when presented with the details about what my brother wrote about my wife on the internet, my father had no reaction. NOTHING. His only concern was a few pictures of their cat that I used in a video about my brother!!
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I think CJD is right. Allen-T feels a need to have a relationship with his parents - because he is a kind human being. It has nothing to do with being Jewish or Gentile.
I think it is amazing that you guys rent a car just so that you can spend time with your Mom.
You are extremely luck to have such an understanding wife. Take strength and your cues on dealing with your family from her. ;)
Sometimes you just have to take what people can give and not beat yourself up over the fact that they can't give more.
Their problems are not with you - it is with the situation that they live in and choices they have made - but you probably feel the brunt of their frustration.
Good Luck fixing your software!
Thank God it seems a simple re-installation did the trick, I got the work for today done without problems. Yes, I don't deserve my wife, she is great and I suck ;). Sometimes I think she is extreme in ways, for example she has an absolutely dreadful father, I can't deal with him, but she troops off once a week to visit him, takes all his insults, his evil speak about me, etc. She believes that honor your parents is very serious, and I do also but we have different interpretations of what honor means in certain situations. I don't agree that one should subject themselves to constant verbal abuse, but she does. I haven't seen him since Christmas morning 3 years ago when after only 10 minutes being there he started his BS about what a loser I am, etc. Europeans tend to make more out of Christmas Eve than Christmas Day, so the routine was usually that she visits him on the eve, I spend it with my son, than we meet on Christmas Day and go to my parents house. My son spends the day with his mom, it's all good. This past year though because of this issue with my brother, and also my son went out of town to visit some other relatives, I was all alone on Christmas eve, and let me tell you, I had a BLAST! I hung around Greenwich Village hit some pubs, then hit some record shops, ran into someone I hadn't seen in 15 years that used to work in a record shop there and now owns 2, we enjoyed talking about old times, etc. I went for dinner at the Slaughtered Lamb, enjoyed more beer and then went to Subterranean Records, which is in a basement, where I met a bunch of really cool people that were just hanging out playing a really eclectic mix of music, everything from Kate Bush to KISS to Nina Hagen to Nico,etc. I hung with them, the guy hooked me up with good prices on some vintage Fleetwood Mac & Cheap Trick Bootlegs, and I went home very happy!! God is good.
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Allen:
I'd simply ignore him. Keep in touch with your parents and explain to them that you love your brother, but the two of you simply cannot get along. Instead of getting into fights and shouting matches, take the moral highground.
Scriabin
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I don't have much time as I am very busy with some last minute preparations but I'll try to squeeze this in. Forgive me if it is too brief. The Rabbis asked who can we learn how to honor ones parents? They give a name of a Greek righteous gentile, where just ONE of the things that he did was when he was sitting in the council of the elders, donned in fine clothing and talking about high stature stuff, his mother came in. She slapped him, called him names, spat in his face, and tore his beautiful clothes in front of everyone. She embarrassed and humiliated him. And what did this man do in response? Nothing. All he said was, calmly, "Enough, mother."
My point is that whether we like it or not, there is a great zchut (merit) in tolerating the type of BS that you are dealing with your parents. You cannot change them; they are too old for that. I believe that there is no sense in arguing with them, or proving a point to them. They think what they think and act the way they act; it's sad, but our Rabbis tell us that in terms of the home, G-d desires shalom (peace) over tzedeq (justice). Don't try to win the battle with them; as long as you remain respectful and try not to outwardly contradict your father, G-d is watching, and He will bless you for it. Mend the fences; you have no idea what a good feeling it will be. In fact, King Solomon has said, "A soft answer turneth away wrath, but grievous words stir up anger." And it is soooo true.
Now in reference to your brother, he is a piece of excrement. He is obviously a very jealous and selfish person, who has problems of his own, and he bashes you and your wife, which is unacceptable. You don't have to mend fences with him. If possible, when you visit your parents, ask him to stay in his room. If otherwise, just ignore him and hold your tongue. I'm sorry to keep talking about Jewish stuff here but I believe it has a lot of wisdom, because I know that you are a very righteous person, who has given G-d a big kiss by sacrificing much to help the Jewish People. You are doing a lot for the sake of Heaven, so you should know this. The Vilna Gaon says that when a person withholds juicy speech, whether it be gossip, bragging, anger, even to prove a point, even when you're right, a Light shines down on him from Heaven that even the angels can't stand.
So in this situation of yours, realize Who you are working for. Don't get caught up in these mundane things. It will destroy you. When you understand that you are doing everything, even in your hardest moments, for the sake of Heaven, you'll be a lot more relaxed on this difficult issue.
I remember when I was secular, I was quite scared of the White Supremacist sites and forums. I thought that maybe they were right in some ways, maybe they were right about Judaism, maybe they had something going. Now, I just laugh at them. They are inferior beings below the level of the apes, and I realized in becomming more religious that they are opposed to Judaism itself, because they can't stand being told what to do. Nazis can't stand consience or morality. As sung in the Hilter Youth song, "We are the joyous Hitler youth, We do not need any Christian virtue, Our leader is our savior, The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone, We want to be pagans once again." What is the difference between you and your family? They are wrong and you are right.
Thanks for the very sound advice. Please, never apologise for citing Jewish references, I hold them close to my heart as well. My wife is a great lover of the Tanach. She knows all those stories inside out, whenever I am stumped about something in the Tanach, she almost always has the answer.
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Sounds like a very tough and complicated situation. It sounds way too involved for any of us to give any type of good advice or solutions. It sounds like the type of thing that would be good to talk about with a professional counselor.
What exactly does your brother do that makes him a neo-nazi?
Curses Jews, praises Hitler, keeps Mein Kampf and the Bible side by side, says my support of JTF is actually me wanting to have anal sex with Jews. do I go on?
Goodness! How is it that two brothers end up going to opposite ends of the extreme? Anal sex with Jews? That would almost be comical if it wasn't so tragic. Sorry you have to deal with all this. I don't know if there's anything you can do about him. I think you just need to figure out how to relate to your parents while keeping your distance from him as much as possible.
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Sounds like a very tough and complicated situation. It sounds way too involved for any of us to give any type of good advice or solutions. It sounds like the type of thing that would be good to talk about with a professional counselor.
What exactly does your brother do that makes him a neo-nazi?
Curses Jews, praises Hitler, keeps Mein Kampf and the Bible side by side, says my support of JTF is actually me wanting to have anal sex with Jews. do I go on?
Goodness! How is it that two brothers end up going to opposite ends of the extreme? Anal sex with Jews? That would almost be comical if it wasn't so tragic. Sorry you have to deal with all this. I don't know if there's anything you can do about him. I think you just need to figure out how to relate to your parents while keeping your distance from him as much as possible.
It's Cain and Abel. An old but sad story.
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Sounds like a very tough and complicated situation. It sounds way too involved for any of us to give any type of good advice or solutions. It sounds like the type of thing that would be good to talk about with a professional counselor.
What exactly does your brother do that makes him a neo-nazi?
Curses Jews, praises Hitler, keeps Mein Kampf and the Bible side by side, says my support of JTF is actually me wanting to have anal sex with Jews. do I go on?
Goodness! How is it that two brothers end up going to opposite ends of the extreme? Anal sex with Jews? That would almost be comical if it wasn't so tragic. Sorry you have to deal with all this. I don't know if there's anything you can do about him. I think you just need to figure out how to relate to your parents while keeping your distance from him as much as possible.
It's Cain and Abel. An old but sad story.
He's bonkers! No christian Zionist or noachide would violate a Jew or Jewess in any cavity out of fear of G_d. Sounds like a twisted nazi black helicopter thing.
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What's the problem they have with your wife........race, ethnicity, religion?
My mom loves my wife. My father hates me because of jealousy so he just extends that to her. My wife is a college graduate and an educater. My mom just stayed at home. My wife has undone in me alot of damage they created. I am no longer aimless, without ambition, wasteful & self-indulgent. My parents would never lift a finger to help a stranger. Virtually without exception there have been dozens upon dozens of situations over the years where my parents said...."It's like this" and I would look at the situation and say, "No, It's like this and this is why" and I am ALWAYS right, the outcome is ALWAYS as I predicted. So to my father I am just a "know-it-all". Mind you I have never been arrogant about it, it's always been offered to them out of concern for them.
Big Al,
Stand by your wife. Firstly, she's more deserving and secondly you have to live with her..... not your folks or brother. Besides, when your an old wreck with heamohroids and a walking frame it's your wife that will comfort you. The other lot will be dead. Jews may have to honour their folks no matter how silly they get, we gentiles don't.
I believe there are verses in the Bible about honoring your parents that apply to Jew and Christian.
Honouring parents is NOT one of the seven laws of Noah. That's not to say gentileshould dishonour their folks, but we're not bound to. Indeed we can take it onboard as an additional mitzva and get extra blessings.
The reason it only applies to jews is because jews have jewish parents. Righteous gentiles could have parents who were still pagan. If parents of christians or noachides asked them to make an offering to a pagan G-d they (the kids) would have conflicting obligations.
Is it ones of the ten commandments then?
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Sounds like a very tough and complicated situation. It sounds way too involved for any of us to give any type of good advice or solutions. It sounds like the type of thing that would be good to talk about with a professional counselor.
What exactly does your brother do that makes him a neo-nazi?
Curses Jews, praises Hitler, keeps Mein Kampf and the Bible side by side, says my support of JTF is actually me wanting to have anal sex with Jews. do I go on?
Goodness! How is it that two brothers end up going to opposite ends of the extreme? Anal sex with Jews? That would almost be comical if it wasn't so tragic. Sorry you have to deal with all this. I don't know if there's anything you can do about him. I think you just need to figure out how to relate to your parents while keeping your distance from him as much as possible.
It's Cain and Abel. An old but sad story.
Yes, this certainly sounds like one brother who you don't need to be his keeper.