JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on December 26, 2011, 07:15:29 PM
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Marijuana Use Tied To Development Of Psychotic Mental Disease Schizophrenia
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002795.html
http://bipolar.about.com/od/relateddisorders/a/schizo_pot.htm
http://healthmad.com/mental-health/cannabis-and-schizophrenia-the-link-is-confirmed/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673687926201
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/jul/27/drugsandalcohol.drugs
I guess harmless "gateway drugs" aren't so harmless after all. Mind-altering substances not only cause physical brain damage, but they also open the window of our soul to the occult.
... even regular social cannabis smoking could induce schizophreniform symptoms.
Thus, regular smokers (more than 100 seals per year, about more than 2 per week) increased from 50 to 200% their risk of suffering from mental disorders (psychotic symptoms, hallucinations, abnormal thoughts).
Smoking cannabis increases the risk of schizophrenia by at least 40% according to research which indicates that there are at least 800 people suffering serious psychosis in the UK after smoking the drug.
:o :o :o
Axl Rose
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What happened to thinking the opposite of what they tell you to think? (jkin)
Their are both studies for and against these things.
"but they also open the window of our soul to the occult."
- How would you know that?
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Doesn't Judaism explicitly prohibit mind-altering narcotics?
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Doesn't Judaism explicitly prohibit mind-altering narcotics?
Not sure.
If its harmful then yes its forbidden, also the fact that its illegal is an issue under Judaism.
But I dont think their are direct discussion on this issue.
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The issue of Judaisms view of drugs has been discussed numerous times.
I have said I support the medical use of Cannabis. I said this because I know that it works as a medicine. I also am against some of the drugs which the pharma companies are pushing on people. I say this because I have had to take some of those drugs and know that they are not good in the long term. This too has been discussed here many times.
Basically Tag Mahir is correct that Judaism is against things which are harmful to the body. It has been argued that a lot of things are harmful in a small way and yet it is permitted. So there must be a measure of how much damage is done. For instance, to this day, wine is a major part of Jewish rituals and yet wine has been shown to have negative aspects regarding health. While there are also reports that occasional use of wine is good for the health. This is the nature of science in todays world. There are scientific studies which contradict each other. Which ones do we believe?
I could list all the proclamations which scientists have made in my life which have changed back and forth, concerning colesterol, concerning global cooling vs global heating, concerning smoking good for alzheimers, etc. , etc. I take the scientists with a grain of salt till the studies start to show some reproducability {which is the scientific method anyway}.
I have seen a variety of studies recently and they do not conclusively point to danger in casual usage. Its use as a pain killer and other medical properties causes me to remain supporting its medical usage. We will see where this research goes..
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The issue of Judaisms view of drugs has been discussed numerous times.
By whom?
I have seen a variety of studies recently and they do not conclusively point to danger in casual usage.
Are you claiming Judaism is pro-getting-high? I'd like to see the halacha please as Chaim has said it is completely forbidden!
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By whom?
Are you claiming Judaism is pro-getting-high? I'd like to see the halacha please as Chaim has said it is completely forbidden!
Once again you are misreading what I am saying. I said that there are a variety of studies which don't show that casual usage of cannabis are dangerous.
Regarding Jewish thoughts on it I could refer you to a number of discussions in the Torah forum.
I have heard what Chaim said and he said that {at least what I heard} that he supports medical usage if it helps.
Who are you to say which drugs are permitted and not permitted? If a person is in pain you give them morphine because it eases the pain. Cannabis was legal for a long time before it was made illegal. There are studies which show that it has medical applications.
See some of these discussions:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,53169.0.html
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So nobody misunderstands you--if there is a conflict in what the studies show (as you claim), why do you think that Jews should go with the pro-marijuana studies?
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Marijuana Use Tied To Development Of Psychotic Mental Disease Schizophrenia
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002795.html
http://bipolar.about.com/od/relateddisorders/a/schizo_pot.htm
http://healthmad.com/mental-health/cannabis-and-schizophrenia-the-link-is-confirmed/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673687926201
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/jul/27/drugsandalcohol.drugs
. Very very interesting. Did this just come out? I will look into these articles.
I guess harmless "gateway drugs" aren't so harmless after all. Mind-altering substances not only cause physical brain damage, but they also open the window of our soul to the occult.
Occult? Not sure where you were going with that.
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tobacco, cannabis, crack, coke, heroine, etc...all bad.
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. Very very interesting. Did this just come out? I will look into these articles.
Occult? Not sure where you were going with that.
The articles are of all ages (some recent, some longstanding). By occult I mean that traditionally psychoactive substances--even mild ones--have been used for purposes of divining or getting oneself in touch with spirits. In Christianity that is absolutely forbidden, and in Judaism I believe that is also "avodah zarah", isn't it?
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So nobody misunderstands you--if there is a conflict in what the studies show (as you claim), why do you think that Jews should go with the pro-marijuana studies?
I don't understand what you are asking here. My statement concerns all scientific studies... As I have given examples before that often they make findings which contradict findings which others have made. Another example concerns the danger of cell phones for cancer. There have been studies which find that there is a correlation between cell phone use and cancer and others which find no such link. Science is based on the ability to reproduce the results of experiments.
I have not changed my position regarding the use of cannabis for medicinal usage. I do not suggest anything else.
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The articles are of all ages (some recent, some longstanding). By occult I mean that traditionally psychoactive substances--even mild ones--have been used for purposes of divining or getting oneself in touch with spirits. In Christianity that is absolutely forbidden, and in Judaism I believe that is also "avodah zarah", isn't it?
The Torah explicitly forbids contact with the dead. I don't know anyone who used cannabis who thinks he is able to communicate with the dead.
Avodah Zarah is used to describe the worship of false gods and idolatry.
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tobacco, cannabis, crack, coke, heroine, etc...all bad.
That sums it up. Nuff said!
I wouldn't want my daughter to get the message that pot smoking is good.
Medicinal marijuana use should be an issue between doctor and patient.
Not used as an excuse for legalizing the drug.
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The vast majority of so-called "medicinal marijuana" is completely bogus--an excuse to legally get high. I used to have a friend in California who has a legally-binding marijuana prescription for "stress" and "anxiety"! What the heck? I can see cancer/HIV/massive surgery patients needing a powerful narcotic but most of the marijuana claims are ridiculous. Also, there used to be a THC pill called Marinol, but the pro-drug crowd claimed that "it just wasn't the same" as smoking it.
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I used to have a friend in California who has a legally-binding marijuana prescription for "stress" and "anxiety"! What the heck?
Soo? That is and should be his business. Lets say you are correct and this is hurting him (by smoking it) that is and should be his problem and not mine.
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I also know someone who is in a great amount of pain and whos suffering is reduced by using cannabis...
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Is smoking in general forbidden? I dont smoke regularly but every now and then will pick up a cigar
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Is smoking in general forbidden? I dont smoke regularly but every now and then will pick up a cigar
According to the Halacha smoking is forbidden because we do know it has a connection to cancer.
But as I argue in moderation some things are not so dangerous. We had a long discussion with one member about whether drinking a soda is forbidden because soda can cause obesity which leads to heart disease, etc.... I argue that since we are permitted to drink wine ocassionally and yet we know that there are dangers with wine, we are non-the-less permitted to drink wine in moderation because in moderation it is not dangerous.
Of course this is my opinion and a Rabbi should be consulted to know the actual halacha.
See these:
http://koltorah.org/old/ravj/15-13_The_Prohibition_to_Smoke_1.htm
http://koltorah.org/old/ravj/15-13_The_Prohibition_to_Smoke_2.htm
http://koltorah.org/old/ravj/15-17_The_Prohibition_to_Smoke_3.htm
The Prohibition to Smoke - Part One
by Rabbi Chaim Jachter
Anecdotal evidence strongly indicates that within the Modern Orthodox community it has become accepted not to smoke. Indeed, the Poskim whom the Modern Orthodox community regards as authoritative have unequivocally stated that it is prohibited to smoke. These authorities include Rav Aharon Lichtenstein, Rav Hershel Schachter, Rav Gedalia Schwartz, and Rav Aharon Soloveitichik. Moreover, one of Rav Moshe Feinstein’s leading Talimidim, Rav Efraim Greenblatt, rules (Teshuvot Rivevot Efraim 8:586) that smoking is prohibited. Indeed, three major Israeli Halachic authorities- Rav Chaim David Halevi (Teshuvot Asei Lecha Rav 2:1,3:18, and 9:28-29), Rav Avigdor Neventzahl (Asyah 5:261) and Rav Eliezer Waldenburg (Teshuvot Tzitz Eliezer 15:39) - have written that smoking is prohibited.
Additionally, Rav Ovadia Yosef has concluded that it is prohibited to smoke (Halichot Olam 1:265-266, published in 1998). This contrasts with Rav Ovada’s earlier writings (such as Teshuvot Yechave Daat 5:39, published in 1983) in which he states that it is preferable to refrain from smoking due to the health hazards involved. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Teshuvot Minchat Shlomo 2:58:6) writes, “I have never joined those who believe that it remains permissible to smoke [on any day] in our times.” Finally, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Teshuvot Igrot Moshe Choshen Mishpat 2:76) writes (in 1981) that it is forbidden to begin the habit of smoking. Thus, according to Rav Feinstein, it is forbidden for one to smoke if he did not begin to do so before this Psak was given. We shall argue that, given current medical data, smoking is prohibited even according to Rav Moshe’s standards.
In this series I seek to explain why smoking is unquestionably forbidden for those Jews who study science and take its findings seriously. I am motivated to a great extent by the premature death of my father due to lung cancer (my father smoked cigarettes). I wish to insure that Bar and Bat Mitzva celebrants should have the pleasure and honor of their grandparents participating in their Simcha. I do not wish that others should share my experience of having gone to the Chuppah without my parents. I thank Rav Asher Bush whose writings on this topic helped me formulate this series.
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Soo? That is and should be his business. Lets say you are correct and this is hurting him (by smoking it) that is and should be his problem and not mine.
Do you use weed?
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Do you use weed?
No. I dont like smoke (any smoke for that matter), but me liking it or not does not and should not I believe make a difference either way because this is an issue of personal rights of people and especially for people to have access to medical use.
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No. I dont like smoke (any smoke for that matter), but me liking it or not does not and should not I believe make a difference either way because this is an issue of personal rights of people and especially for people to have access to medial use.
This sounds a whole lot like what Ron Paul says but that's besides the point. I was merely pointing out the findings of science, not giving people a lecture about the morality of dope.
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Drug use is an important aspect of traditional forms of magic and witchcraft, not all pagans use it but it is a part of magickal rituals/shamanism. Even something as seemingly mild as tobacco has been used in strong concentrations to produce hallucinations. I think that any kind of mind-altering drug no matter how it alters the mind can put people into a spiritual state where they are more receptive to demonic influence or their own evil inclinations. Magic potions aren't just something in a Mario game, real witches use them in an attempt to contact spirits, they wouldn't consider that evil but I think most of us would. I'm certain that the Bible calls these types of practices a sin. Even if someone uses drugs recreationally, they are engaging in part of the same practice even if their intention is not to participate in occult activities, the result is the same.
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Drug use is an important aspect of traditional forms of magic and witchcraft, not all pagans use it but it is a part of magickal rituals/shamanism. Even something as seemingly mild as tobacco has been used in strong concentrations to produce hallucinations. I think that any kind of mind-altering drug no matter how it alters the mind can put people into a spiritual state where they are more receptive to demonic influence or their own evil inclinations. Magic potions aren't just something in a Mario game, real witches use them in an attempt to contact spirits, they wouldn't consider that evil but I think most of us would. I'm certain that the Bible calls these types of practices a sin. Even if someone uses drugs recreationally, they are engaging in part of the same practice even if their intention is not to participate in occult activities, the result is the same.
Oh really.... I strongly disagree with what you write. The fact is that people have used chemicals for medicine for a long time. It is no different than what the Pharma companies are trying to push down our throats. I think Pharma companies are much more evil than the casual illicit drug user. So many people I know have bigger problems with addiction to prescription pain killers than to illegal drugs. To paint them all with this brush of 'witchcraft' and 'sorcery' is simply insane!
The 'Bible' as you call it does say that sorcery and consulting with the dead are forbidden. But as I posted before the types of witchcraft and sorcery are clearly spelled out and none of them involved smoking or taking drugs...
http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/48938547.html
HOME SPIRITUALITY PHILOSOPHY
NOT JEWISH
None of these three general approaches are in keeping with Judaism. What is the Torah perspective regarding witchcraft?
The Torah takes a very negative attitude towards witchcraft in its various formats, such as:
"A sorcerer shall not be allowed to live." (Exodus 22:17)
"For you are coming into a land that G-d is granting to you; do not learn the ways of the abominations of the native people. There shall not be found amongst you ... a sorcerer, soothsayer or engager of witchcraft ... or one who calls up the dead. For it is an abomination before G-d, and it is on account of these abominations that G-d is giving you their land." (Deut. 18:9-12)
But why? What is the problem with it?
The so-called "devil vs. G-d" approach is an anathema to Judaism because of the whiff of dualism inherent in it. G-d is One, and only One. He acts in many different ways, but there are no "two" armies in the full sense of the word.
Judaism does speak of the "Satan/devil," but it sees Satan as an agent of G-d, testing the sincerity of man's deeds, the strength of his convictions, and the stamina of his moral fiber. Although this so-called devil seems to entice man to do wrong, he is not inherently an evil being. Rather, he is conducting a "sting" operation; overtly enticing to bad, but in reality working for G-d. A cursory reading of the beginning of Job conveys that message: G-d sends out Satan to test Job's righteousness.
Just as a dentist or doctor tests the firmness of a bone or flesh by probing it, just as the army tests the integrity and trustworthiness of its intelligence agents by tempting them, so too does G-d test man. A test reveals the inner worthiness of a person's deeds, demonstrating what they are really made of.
So, if magic and occult do exist, why are they so evil?
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http://www.campsci.com/hagadah/magic_and_witchcraft.htm
http://www.aish.com/atr/Witchcraft__Magic.html?catid=909609
Witchcraft & Magic
What does Judaism say about the existence of black magic? Is this a real power or just an illusion?
The Aish Rabbi Replies:
The Torah accepts that magic and sorcery do exist. Along with nature's normal way of functioning, God also created a way for humans to manipulate it - by the means of magic. Although God does not permit mankind to use sorcery, He had to allow this deviant path to exist in order to give mankind an element of choice. Otherwise we would lack the unique spiritual trait of free will.
However, the Torah prohibits the practice of sorcery, fortune-telling, and divination -- via chance, necromancy, cards, or other fortune-telling paraphernalia. (Exodus 22:17; Leviticus 19:26,31; Deuteronomy 18:10-11)
Maimonides writes that it is forbidden to perform acts and claim that they are done through supernatural forces, because this is what the idol-worshippers used to do -- to bring "compelling proof" for their idol worship, via magic and fortune-telling. (Laws of Idolatry 11:16)
According to Rabbi A.Y. Kook ("Da'at Kohen" 69), it is forbidden to perform magic or fortune-telling. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein also discouraged doing magic tricks, but wrote that it would be permitted if the magician informed people of how the trick was performed beforehand.
To learn more, read "Faith and Folly" by Rabbi Yaakov Hillel (Feldheim.com).
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Oh really.... I strongly disagree with what you write. The fact is that people have used chemicals for medicine for a long time. It is no different than what the Pharma companies are trying to push down our throats. I think Pharma companies are much more evil than the casual illicit drug user. So many people I know have bigger problems with addiction to prescription pain killers than to illegal drugs. To paint them all with this brush of 'witchcraft' and 'sorcery' is simply insane!
The 'Bible' as you call it does say that sorcery and consulting with the dead are forbidden. But as I posted before the types of witchcraft and sorcery are clearly spelled out and none of them involved smoking or taking drugs...
I think using it for purely medical reasons is different, but mind altering substances still must be used with great caution in that context. Using it for recreation is the same as using it for magical purposes in my opinion.
Sorcery often uses drugs as part of its practice.
So you're saying that only some types of sorcery are forbidden right? So shamanism is perfectly ok?
Some people take hallucinogens or other drugs in ritual settings in order to have a spiritual experience, as part of pagan practice. Do you think this is a sin or do you think it's kosher?
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I think using it for purely medical reasons is different, using it for recreation is the same as using it for magical purposes in my opinion.
Sorcery often uses drugs as part of its practice.
So you're saying that only some types of sorcery are forbidden right? So shamanism is perfectly ok?
Some people take hallucinogens or other drugs in ritual settings in order to have a spiritual experience, as part of pagan practice. Do you think this is a sin or do you think it's kosher?
It is not Jewish to use substances used by non-Jewish religions. I would state that without having to consult a Rabbi. We are forbidden from engaging in practices which may look like avodah zarah. This is true.
But do you know that cannabis was used by idolatrous religions? I have not heard that...
But my concern is with only keeping it available to those who need it. I am sorry that some people are being given it without valid medical reasons but this also happens with perscription drugs too. I know how 'easy' it is to get these drugs because I need pain pills for my condition {Venus Insufficiency/Vasculitis} which causes great pain in my foot. I know that the pain doctors are trying to push more powerful pain pills on me {they have done so many times since I have gone there}.
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You said that "studies have proven there is no harm in casual use" (of marijuana). What does that have to do with medical use?
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You said that "studies have proven there is no harm in casual use" (of marijuana). What does that have to do with medical use?
I mean not 'excessive' use. When I use the word 'casual' I mean normal and not beyond the perscribed usage...
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"Prescribed" can mean absolutely anything as you know. There are doctors that deliberately prescribe enough (legal) prescription narcotics to cause addiction for instance.
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PS since you say that my studies cited are wrong and that science "proves" that marijuana is harmless, why not link me to some evidence of this?
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It is not Jewish to use substances used by non-Jewish religions. I would state that without having to consult a Rabbi. We are forbidden from engaging in practices which may look like avodah zarah. This is true.
Recreational drug use mimics pagan rituals very closely. Someone taking LSD deliberately to contact spiritual realms and someone taking LSD for fun are opening up the same doors spiritually and physically.
But do you know that cannabis was used by idolatrous religions? I have not heard that...
Rastafarians are pretty notorious for it, and I'm sure they're not the only ones. However it doesn't even matter what specific drug is being used. Mind altering drugs as a whole serve the same purpose. Modern shamans sometimes even use synthetic drugs such as dextromethorphan or ketamine to produce their spiritual experiences in addition to more traditional substances like peyote and mushrooms.
But my concern is with only keeping it available to those who need it. I am sorry that some people are being given it without valid medical reasons but this also happens with perscription drugs too. I know how 'easy' it is to get these drugs because I need pain pills for my condition {Venus Insufficiency/Vasculitis} which causes great pain in my foot. I know that the pain doctors are trying to push more powerful pain pills on me {they have done so many times since I have gone there}.
I think that people who are truly in need of a medicine should have it but the access needs to be better controlled and it can't be a slippery slope like it is now.
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Recreational drug use mimics pagan rituals very closely. Someone taking LSD deliberately to contact spiritual realms and someone taking LSD for fun are opening up the same doors spiritually and physically.
Rastafarians are pretty notorious for it, and I'm sure they're not the only ones. However it doesn't even matter what specific drug is being used. Mind altering drugs as a whole serve the same purpose. Modern shamans sometimes even use synthetic drugs such as dextromethorphan or ketamine to produce their spiritual experiences in addition to more traditional substances like peyote and mushrooms.
I think that people who are truly in need of a medicine should have it but the access needs to be better controlled and it can't be a slippery slope like it is now.
And wine is also used by pagan cerimonies... Wine is used for every Kiddush in Jewish tradition. Should we not use wine because wine is used by Christians for their rituals {the blood}?
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/610626/jewish/Kiddush.htm
I support the medical use of Cannabis and it is because of my experience. I am sorry others do not share this view. But I don't condone sorcery, witchcraft, or consulting with the dead. To make this association is absurd in my opinion. I even know some drug addicts and none of them believe any witchcraft or sorcery.
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And wine is also used by pagan cerimonies... Wine is used for every Kiddush in Jewish tradition. Should we not use wine because wine is used by Christians for their rituals {the blood}?
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/610626/jewish/Kiddush.htm
Wine is pretty much explicitly permitted, wherease I don't think the same case can be made for marijuana. Even with wine aren't there pretty specific rules about which wines you are allowed to use? Alcohol is allowed by the Bible in moderation but I don't believe other mind altering substances are specifically allowed.
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Wine is pretty much explicitly permitted, wherease I don't think the same case can be made for marijuana. Even with wine aren't there pretty specific rules about which wines you are allowed to use?
Yes, Kosher wine is important.... It must be prepared Mevushal...
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/82688/jewish/Wine-and-Grape-Products.htm
Wine and Grape Products
Wine, more than any other food or drink, represents the holiness and separateness of the Jewish people. It is used for the sanctification of Shabbat and Yom Tov and at Jewish simchot. In the Beit Hamikdash wine was poured upon the altar together with the sacrifice.
However, since wine was and still is used in many forms of idolatrous worship, it has a unique status in Jewish law, which places extra restrictions on the making and handling of wine. This includes wine used for non-ceremonial purposes.
The production and handling of kosher wine must be done exclusively by Jews. Wine, grape juice, and all products containing wine or grape juice must remain solely in Jewish hands during the manufacturing process and also after the seal of the bottle has been opened. We are not allowed to drink any wine or grape juice, or any drink containing wine or grape juice, which has been touched by a non-Jew after the seal of the bottle has been opened..
Yayin Mevushal: (Boiled Wine). Kosher wine (or grape juice) which has been boiled prior to the bottling process is called yayin mevushal. In the time of the Beit Hamikdash, boiling wine rendered it unfit to be brought upon the Altar.
Yayin mevushal is not considered "sacramental wine" and is therefore not included in the prohibition against being handled by non-Jews. This wine must, as with all kosher wines, bear the symbol of a reliable supervision organization and it should say yayin mevushal.
A wide variety of domestic and imported kosher wines under reliable supervision has been added to the sweet Concords traditionally associated with kosher wines. Many of these wines are yayin mevushal, as indicated on the label. Whether for Kiddush, dining, or a simchah, you are sure to find a fine kosher wine to suit your taste.
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I support the medical use of Cannabis and it is because of my experience. I am sorry others do not share this view. But I don't condone sorcery, witchcraft, or consulting with the dead. To make this association is absurd in my opinion. I even know some drug addicts and none of them believe any witchcraft or sorcery.
So you are saying Judaism supports drug addiction? :o Please paste in some evidence for that, because that's hard to believe.
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So you are saying Judaism supports drug addiction? :o Please paste in some evidence for that, because that's hard to believe.
Dude, I don't know what your smoking but I don't see how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote...
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So you are saying Judaism supports drug addiction? :o Please paste in some evidence for that, because that's hard to believe.
Medical use is not drug addiction. Why are you conflating two very different things?
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The articles are of all ages (some recent, some longstanding). By occult I mean that traditionally psychoactive substances--even mild ones--have been used for purposes of divining or getting oneself in touch with spirits. In Christianity that is absolutely forbidden, and in Judaism I believe that is also "avodah zarah", isn't it?
Yeah, I don't think we're allowed to contact "spirits" of any kind (if they actually exist, or if a person is convinced they exist).
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He specifically said that he has known some drug addicts that are not idolatrous in any way, implying that it's not so bad. BTW Muman--when Christians use wine in "rituals" as you so claim it is a tiny sip. Nobody gets intoxicated and many churches actually use grape juice.
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That sums it up. Nuff said!
I wouldn't want my daughter to get the message that pot smoking is good.
Medicinal marijuana use should be an issue between doctor and patient.
Not used as an excuse for legalizing the drug.
Absolutely!
If marijuana is proven to have medical uses, then doctors can get a license to administer it as a treatment , just like they prescribe any drugs. People who promote medicinal qualities as a reason to legalize the drug are living in a dreamworld.
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Yeah, I don't think we're allowed to contact "spirits" of any kind (if they actually exist, or if a person is convinced they exist).
Aren't there Tanachic passages that speak of sorcery and mediums, such as the Witch of Endor? I know that sorcery is punishable by death in Levitical law.
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Absolutely!
If marijuana is proven to have medical uses, then doctors can get a license to administer it as a treatment , just like they prescribe any drugs. People who promote medicinal qualities as a reason to legalize the drug are living in a dreamworld.
Yes, this is what I have been trying to say all along. In addition to the basic observation that drug use (even "soft drug" use) has harmful impacts on the user's life, there is powerful evidence that it can directly cause a severe and lifelong mental illness. Shouldn't people know about that? I don't doubt that THC has some analgesic properties that could be useful in the right settings but so does opium and we don't just allow everyone to smoke or shoot up opiates. If people want to use anyway, that is on their head and body, but it's rather silly to argue with the science that shows without any doubt that drug abuse is very harmful.
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So you are saying Judaism supports drug addiction? :o Please paste in some evidence for that, because that's hard to believe.
I have stated Halacha that we are forbidden from doing things which are damaging to the body. I stated that when asked about prohibition on Smoking which has a positive link with cancer. Drug addiction is not healthy and no Rabbi will condone it. When Rubstars started stating that it should be forbidden due to supposed links to pagan idol worship and witchcraft I replied that it is not my experience that anyone who did these drugs believe in any occult practices. Just doing the substance does not make one an idol worshipper...
I never suggest that people should do drugs unless it is to alleviate a health problem which is relieved by use of the drug or substance. It becomes a question of whether the quality of life will improve through the use of the drug. All drugs are not good for a person including the pain pills which are needed by so many people in chronic pain. So then the question is which is worse, living with intense pain which incapacitates you or doing the pain drug and eventually becoming addicted and having related health problems? I have refused some of the heavier pain drugs just because I don't want to be addicted to them.
I don't know why 'Axl' always seems to have an issue with everything I say. What I say is based on my experience and based on what I have learned. I do not want currently illegal drugs to be made legal. I have stated this for several years here and it is surprising that everyone doesn't know my position. I do want more research done into whether it is dangerous or whether it is beneficial for medical uses. At this time I believe it does have medical uses...
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Aren't there Tanachic passages that speak of sorcery and mediums, such as the Witch of Endor? I know that sorcery is punishable by death in Levitical law.
Correct on the point of sorcery, practicioners get the death penalty. However, I am not certain those things are real, just my personal opinion. And still, whether it's real or not, it (witchcraft, etc) is definitely forbidden.
And if you're wondering about my opinion, I believe that a big part of the crime of doing these things, even though I don't believe they have any power, is the whole idea that the person even thinks it has power to begin with and then acts on that. It's a form of idol worship ascribing power to other forces, IMO. And so the person is practicing idol worship - which is similarly something forbidden that some people think is real even though it has no power and is not real. That's how I view these subjects anyway. I'm sure others will differ.
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Aren't there Tanachic passages that speak of sorcery and mediums, such as the Witch of Endor? I know that sorcery is punishable by death in Levitical law.
http://e.yeshiva.org.il/ask/?srch=1&cat=&search_in=2&q=endor
Question:
In 1 Samuel 28, we have the story of King Saul visiting a woman in Endor.
Leviticus 19:31, 20:6 are prohibitions in turning to ghosts and familiar spirits.
Are these prohibitions in place to prevent people from being "suckered" by frauds who claim they can communicate to the "other side", or are the prohibitions in place because some people can communicate with ghosts and familiar spirits?
In the case of Saul speaking to Samuel, was it (a) actually Samuel (b) a demon masquerading as Samuel, or (c) the Woman in Endor putting on a good show?
Answer:
Maimonides in the Laws of Idol Worship (XI 16) is emphatic in teaching that the prohibitions do not forbid something real and useful- the magic and witchcraft are nothing more than "lies and deceit". The success of these magicians was based on a sense that they had of what was about to occur, based on a heightened imagination (Iggeret Teiman). Even so, this sense made their hunches more accurate than those of others but still they were very often wrong. The Radak in his commentary on Samuel I writes that there are those who feel that the magic "works" (athough they too agree that, unlike true prophecy, it is not reliable). One opinion is that the woman in Endor was about to perform her usual sleight of hand and was shocked when, by a miracle unrelated to what she was doing, Samuel actually appeared to Saul.
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Correct on the point of sorcery, practicioners get the death penalty. However, I am not certain those things are real, just my personal opinion. And still, whether it's real or not, it (witchcraft, etc) is definitely forbidden.
And if you're wondering about my opinion, I believe that a big part of the crime of doing these things, even though I don't believe they have any power, is the whole idea that the person even thinks it has power to begin with and then acts on that. It's a form of idol worship ascribing power to other forces, IMO. And so the person is practicing idol worship - which is similarly something forbidden that some people think is real even though it has no power and is not real. That's how I view these subjects anyway. I'm sure others will differ.
Rambam believes that Witchcraft is false...
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I know Judaism believes that angels do not have free will, and therefore cannot be evil, but that theological issue aside it is beyond any doubt that trying to connect to the spirit world in any way is idolatrous and absolutely condemned by both religions. The fact that it's punishable by death is proof of how serious it is. Do you know by any chance how common it actually was for ancient Israelites to be put to death for engaging in witchcraft or the pagan ceremonies of surrounding Canaanite scum?
In my opinion it does not matter whether or not the drug user is deliberately engaging in witchcraft. We know that psychoactive substances, especially when used repeatedly, contribute to mental illness no matter what. Schizophrenia, which involves a total disconnection from reality and oftentimes the hearing of terrifying voices which command the sufferer to hurt themselves or other people, does to me sound a lot like what was described as "demonic indwelling" in ancient times (and non-western cultures today). Regardless of whether or not it is, I think we can agree that marijuana is very bad (with the possible exception of patients who truly need a powerful painkiller).
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I know Judaism believes that angels do not have free will, and therefore cannot be evil, but that theological issue aside it is beyond any doubt that trying to connect to the spirit world in any way is idolatrous and absolutely condemned by both religions. The fact that it's punishable by death is proof of how serious it is. Do you know by any chance how common it actually was for ancient Israelites to be put to death for engaging in witchcraft or the pagan ceremonies of surrounding Canaanite scum?
In my opinion it does not matter whether or not the drug user is deliberately engaging in witchcraft. We know that psychoactive substances, especially when used repeatedly, contribute to mental illness no matter what. Schizophrenia, which involves a total disconnection from reality and oftentimes the hearing of terrifying voices which command the sufferer to hurt themselves or other people, does to me sound a lot like what was described as "demonic indwelling" in ancient times (and non-western cultures today). Regardless of whether or not it is, I think we can agree that marijuana is very bad (with the possible exception of patients who truly need a powerful painkiller).
Do you know anyone who is Schizophrenic? I knew someone who was born with it.... It has nothing to do with demons or spirits...
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I know Judaism believes that angels do not have free will, and therefore cannot be evil, but that theological issue aside it is beyond any doubt that trying to connect to the spirit world in any way is idolatrous and absolutely condemned by both religions. The fact that it's punishable by death is proof of how serious it is. Do you know by any chance how common it actually was for ancient Israelites to be put to death for engaging in witchcraft or the pagan ceremonies of surrounding Canaanite scum?
In my opinion it does not matter whether or not the drug user is deliberately engaging in witchcraft. We know that psychoactive substances, especially when used repeatedly, contribute to mental illness no matter what. Schizophrenia, which involves a total disconnection from reality and oftentimes the hearing of terrifying voices which command the sufferer to hurt themselves or other people, does to me sound a lot like what was described as "demonic indwelling" in ancient times (and non-western cultures today). Regardless of whether or not it is, I think we can agree that marijuana is very bad (with the possible exception of patients who truly need a powerful painkiller).
Schizophrenia IMO is a mental disease and has nothing to do with the occult. Certainly nothing that can be verified.
Putting yourself at risk of schizophrenia is definitely wrong, if that is a significant risk. There is no need to invoke witchcraft or other hardly related matters. Either it's a health risk, or it isn't. If it is, then one should not do it, just as they should not eat unhealthy food or do other unhealthy habits.
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Schizophrenia almost always comes about in young adults. The number of children under 10 who are diagnosed with what might be called schizophrenia in an older person is essentially zero. Every paper I have read on it states that it comes about as a combination of heredity and environmental factors, in young adults or teens at the earliest. I have never heard of anybody "born with it"--maybe you mean he was born into a family where it ran in their genes and later developed it?
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Schizophrenia almost always comes about in young adults. The number of children under 10 who are diagnosed with what might be called schizophrenia in an older person is essentially zero. Every paper I have read on it states that it comes about as a combination of heredity and environmental factors, in young adults or teens at the earliest. I have never heard of anybody "born with it"--maybe you mean he was born into a family where it ran in their genes and later developed it?
Yes, he was diagnosed with it in his teens.... I did not mean he was 'born' with symptoms. I know about it through research I did when he was a neighbor of mine. You are correct it is usually diagnosed in the teens. My neighbor did have to take medication to keep his symptoms in control but as many schizophrenics do he eventually went off the medicine and just disappeared one day.... I never figured out what happened to him..
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His schizophrenia was probably caused by a combination of genes and various factors in his upbringing. We may never know exactly what those factors are but it is never totally inevitable that someone gets it even if all the genes are there.
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Schizophrenia almost always comes about in young adults. The number of children under 10 who are diagnosed with what might be called schizophrenia in an older person is essentially zero. Every paper I have read on it states that it comes about as a combination of heredity and environmental factors, in young adults or teens at the earliest. I have never heard of anybody "born with it"--maybe you mean he was born into a family where it ran in their genes and later developed it?
But other mental diseases also develop in young people (or older) as a combination of heredity and environmental factors, which also have nothing to do with the occult.
Being unrelated to "occult" does not require a person to be "born with it" in any situation. But you also said there is a combination with heredity, so that actually implies they are somewhat born with it (in combination with environmental factors). So I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here.
As a clear example, regarding something that is not a mental illness but a degenerative disorder, Parkinson's (the nonfamilial type) is not hereditary, and no one is born with that. Nonetheless it is developed later in life in some people, God forbid, and has nothing to do with occult.
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Schizophrenia IMO is a mental disease and has nothing to do with the occult. Certainly nothing that can be verified.
Putting yourself at risk of schizophrenia is definitely wrong, if that is a significant risk. There is no need to invoke witchcraft or other hardly related matters. Either it's a health risk, or it isn't. If it is, then one should not do it, just as they should not eat unhealthy food or do other unhealthy habits.
Fair enough. It is clear that marijuana use can cause or significantly contribute to schizophrenia. The occult stuff was just my opinion and commentary but it does not affect the central findings made about cannabis/schizophrenia.
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regarding something that is not a mental illness but a degenerative disorder, Parkinson's (the nonfamilial type) is not hereditary, and no one is born with that. Nonetheless it is developed later in life in some people, G-d forbid, and has nothing to do with occult.
Like you said, Parkinson's isn't a mental illness at all. I do know that some drugs, such as meth, can cause Parkinson's in later life (I don't know if marijuana can). I focused on marijuana because methamphetamine is universally acknowledged to be a terrible drug whereas cannabis is not.
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Like you said, Parkinson's isn't a mental illness at all. I do know that some drugs, such as meth, can cause Parkinson's in later life (I don't know if marijuana can). I focused on marijuana because methamphetamine is universally acknowledged to be a terrible drug whereas cannabis is not.
Speed Kills.... That is true..
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Fair enough. It is clear that marijuana use can cause or significantly contribute to schizophrenia. The occult stuff was just my opinion and commentary but it does not affect the central findings made about cannabis/schizophrenia.
I hear you.
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So KWRBT--is it okay to eat pig? :P :laugh: