Cannabis Positively Linked To Schizophrenia Risk!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Marijuana Use Tied To Development Of Psychotic Mental Disease Schizophrenia

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002795.html
http://bipolar.about.com/od/relateddisorders/a/schizo_pot.htm
http://healthmad.com/mental-health/cannabis-and-schizophrenia-the-link-is-confirmed/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673687926201
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/jul/27/drugsandalcohol.drugs

I guess harmless "gateway drugs" aren't so harmless after all. Mind-altering substances not only cause physical brain damage, but they also open the window of our soul to the occult.

... even regular social cannabis smoking could induce schizophreniform symptoms.

Thus, regular smokers (more than 100 seals per year, about more than 2 per week) increased from 50 to 200% their risk of suffering from mental disorders (psychotic symptoms, hallucinations, abnormal thoughts).

Smoking cannabis increases the risk of schizophrenia by at least 40% according to research which indicates that there are at least 800 people suffering serious psychosis in the UK after smoking the drug.

 
Axl Rose

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

What happened to thinking the opposite of what they tell you to think? (jkin)
 Their are both studies for and against these things.

"but they also open the window of our soul to the occult."
 
 - How would you know that?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Doesn't Judaism explicitly prohibit mind-altering narcotics?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Doesn't Judaism explicitly prohibit mind-altering narcotics?

 Not sure.
If its harmful then yes its forbidden, also the fact that its illegal is an issue under Judaism.
 But I dont think their are direct discussion on this issue. 

[muman613]

The issue of Judaisms view of drugs has been discussed numerous times.

I have said I support the medical use of Cannabis. I said this because I know that it works as a medicine. I also am against some of the drugs which the pharma companies are pushing on people. I say this because I have had to take some of those drugs and know that they are not good in the long term. This too has been discussed here many times.

Basically Tag Mahir is correct that Judaism is against things which are harmful to the body. It has been argued that a lot of things are harmful in a small way and yet it is permitted. So there must be a measure of how much damage is done. For instance, to this day, wine is a major part of Jewish rituals and yet wine has been shown to have negative aspects regarding health. While there are also reports that occasional use of wine is good for the health. This is the nature of science in todays world. There are scientific studies which contradict each other. Which ones do we believe?

I could list all the proclamations which scientists have made in my life which have changed back and forth, concerning colesterol, concerning global cooling vs global heating, concerning smoking good for alzheimers, etc. , etc. I take the scientists with a grain of salt till the studies start to show some reproducability {which is the scientific method anyway}.

I have seen a variety of studies recently and they do not conclusively point to danger in casual usage. Its use as a pain killer and other medical properties causes me to remain supporting its medical usage. We will see where this research goes..

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The issue of Judaisms view of drugs has been discussed numerous times.

By whom?

I have seen a variety of studies recently and they do not conclusively point to danger in casual usage.

Are you claiming Judaism is pro-getting-high? I'd like to see the halacha please as Chaim has said it is completely forbidden!

[muman613]

By whom?
Are you claiming Judaism is pro-getting-high? I'd like to see the halacha please as Chaim has said it is completely forbidden!

Once again you are misreading what I am saying. I said that there are a variety of studies which don't show that casual usage of cannabis are dangerous.

Regarding Jewish thoughts on it I could refer you to a number of discussions in the Torah forum.

I have heard what Chaim said and he said that {at least what I heard} that he supports medical usage if it helps.

Who are you to say which drugs are permitted and not permitted? If a person is in pain you give them morphine because it eases the pain. Cannabis was legal for a long time before it was made illegal. There are studies which show that it has medical applications.

See some of these discussions:

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,53169.0.html

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

So nobody misunderstands you--if there is a conflict in what the studies show (as you claim), why do you think that Jews should go with the pro-marijuana studies?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Marijuana Use Tied To Development Of Psychotic Mental Disease Schizophrenia

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002795.html
http://bipolar.about.com/od/relateddisorders/a/schizo_pot.htm
http://healthmad.com/mental-health/cannabis-and-schizophrenia-the-link-is-confirmed/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673687926201
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/jul/27/drugsandalcohol.drugs

. Very very interesting.   Did this just come out?  I will look into these articles.

I guess harmless "gateway drugs" aren't so harmless after all. Mind-altering substances not only cause physical brain damage, but they also open the window of our soul to the occult.

Occult?  Not sure where you were going with that.

[angryChineseKahanist]

tobacco, cannabis, crack, coke, heroine, etc...all bad.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

. Very very interesting.   Did this just come out?  I will look into these articles.

Occult?  Not sure where you were going with that.

The articles are of all ages (some recent, some longstanding). By occult I mean that traditionally psychoactive substances--even mild ones--have been used for purposes of divining or getting oneself in touch with spirits. In Christianity that is absolutely forbidden, and in Judaism I believe that is also "avodah zarah", isn't it?

[muman613]

So nobody misunderstands you--if there is a conflict in what the studies show (as you claim), why do you think that Jews should go with the pro-marijuana studies?

I don't understand what you are asking here. My statement concerns all scientific studies... As I have given examples before that often they make findings which contradict findings which others have made. Another example concerns the danger of cell phones for cancer. There have been studies which find that there is a correlation between cell phone use and cancer and others which find no such link. Science is based on the ability to reproduce the results of experiments.

I have not changed my position regarding the use of cannabis for medicinal usage. I do not suggest anything else.

 

[muman613]

The articles are of all ages (some recent, some longstanding). By occult I mean that traditionally psychoactive substances--even mild ones--have been used for purposes of divining or getting oneself in touch with spirits. In Christianity that is absolutely forbidden, and in Judaism I believe that is also "avodah zarah", isn't it?

The Torah explicitly forbids contact with the dead. I don't know anyone who used cannabis who thinks he is able to communicate with the dead.

Avodah Zarah is used to describe the worship of false gods and idolatry.

[nessuno]

tobacco, cannabis, crack, coke, heroine, etc...all bad.

That sums it up.  Nuff said! 

I wouldn't want my daughter to get the message that pot smoking is good.

Medicinal marijuana use should be an issue between doctor and patient.
Not used as an excuse for legalizing the drug.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The vast majority of so-called "medicinal marijuana" is completely bogus--an excuse to legally get high. I used to have a friend in California who has a legally-binding marijuana prescription for "stress" and "anxiety"! What the heck? I can see cancer/HIV/massive surgery patients needing a powerful narcotic but most of the marijuana claims are ridiculous. Also, there used to be a THC pill called Marinol, but the pro-drug crowd claimed that "it just wasn't the same" as smoking it.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I used to have a friend in California who has a legally-binding marijuana prescription for "stress" and "anxiety"! What the heck?

 Soo? That is and should be his business. Lets say you are correct and this is hurting him (by smoking it) that is and should be his problem and not mine.

[muman613]

I also know someone who is in a great amount of pain and whos suffering is reduced by using cannabis...

[White Israelite]

Is smoking in general forbidden? I dont smoke regularly but every now and then will pick up a cigar

[muman613]

Is smoking in general forbidden? I dont smoke regularly but every now and then will pick up a cigar

According to the Halacha smoking is forbidden because we do know it has a connection to cancer.

But as I argue in moderation some things are not so dangerous. We had a long discussion with one member about whether drinking a soda is forbidden because soda can cause obesity which leads to heart disease, etc.... I argue that since we are permitted to drink wine ocassionally and yet we know that there are dangers with wine, we are non-the-less permitted to drink wine in moderation because in moderation it is not dangerous.

Of course this is my opinion and a Rabbi should be consulted to know the actual halacha.

See these:

http://koltorah.org/old/ravj/15-13_The_Prohibition_to_Smoke_1.htm
http://koltorah.org/old/ravj/15-13_The_Prohibition_to_Smoke_2.htm
http://koltorah.org/old/ravj/15-17_The_Prohibition_to_Smoke_3.htm

The Prohibition to Smoke - Part One
by Rabbi Chaim Jachter

Anecdotal evidence strongly indicates that within the Modern Orthodox community it has become accepted not to smoke. Indeed, the Poskim whom the Modern Orthodox community regards as authoritative have unequivocally stated that it is prohibited to smoke. These authorities include Rav Aharon Lichtenstein, Rav Hershel Schachter, Rav Gedalia Schwartz, and Rav Aharon Soloveitichik. Moreover, one of Rav Moshe Feinstein’s leading Talimidim, Rav Efraim Greenblatt, rules (Teshuvot Rivevot Efraim 8:586) that smoking is prohibited. Indeed, three major Israeli Halachic authorities- Rav Chaim David Halevi (Teshuvot Asei Lecha Rav 2:1,3:18, and 9:28-29), Rav Avigdor Neventzahl (Asyah 5:261) and Rav Eliezer Waldenburg (Teshuvot Tzitz Eliezer 15:39) - have written that smoking is prohibited.

Additionally, Rav Ovadia Yosef has concluded that it is prohibited to smoke (Halichot Olam 1:265-266, published in 1998). This contrasts with Rav Ovada’s earlier writings (such as Teshuvot Yechave Daat 5:39, published in 1983) in which he states that it is preferable to refrain from smoking due to the health hazards involved. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Teshuvot Minchat Shlomo 2:58:6) writes, “I have never joined those who believe that it remains permissible to smoke [on any day] in our times.” Finally, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Teshuvot Igrot Moshe Choshen Mishpat 2:76) writes (in 1981) that it is forbidden to begin the habit of smoking. Thus, according to Rav Feinstein, it is forbidden for one to smoke if he did not begin to do so before this Psak was given. We shall argue that, given current medical data, smoking is prohibited even according to Rav Moshe’s standards.

In this series I seek to explain why smoking is unquestionably forbidden for those Jews who study science and take its findings seriously. I am motivated to a great extent by the premature death of my father due to lung cancer (my father smoked cigarettes). I wish to insure that Bar and Bat Mitzva celebrants should have the pleasure and honor of their grandparents participating in their Simcha. I do not wish that others should share my experience of having gone to the Chuppah without my parents. I thank Rav Asher Bush whose writings on this topic helped me formulate this series.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Soo? That is and should be his business. Lets say you are correct and this is hurting him (by smoking it) that is and should be his problem and not mine.

Do you use weed?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Do you use weed?

 No. I dont like smoke (any smoke for that matter), but me liking it or not does not and should not I believe make a difference either way because this is an issue of personal rights of people and especially for people to have access to medical use.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

No. I dont like smoke (any smoke for that matter), but me liking it or not does not and should not I believe make a difference either way because this is an issue of personal rights of people and especially for people to have access to medial use.

This sounds a whole lot like what Ron Paul says but that's besides the point. I was merely pointing out the findings of science, not giving people a lecture about the morality of dope.

[Rubystars]

Drug use is an important aspect of traditional forms of magic and witchcraft, not all pagans use it but it is a part of magickal rituals/shamanism. Even something as seemingly mild as tobacco has been used in strong concentrations to produce hallucinations. I think that any kind of mind-altering drug no matter how it alters the mind can put people into a spiritual state where they are more receptive to demonic influence or their own evil inclinations. Magic potions aren't just something in a Mario game, real witches use them in an attempt to contact spirits, they wouldn't consider that evil but I think most of us would. I'm certain that the Bible calls these types of practices a sin. Even if someone uses drugs recreationally, they are engaging in part of the same practice even if their intention is not to participate in occult activities, the result is the same.

[muman613]

Drug use is an important aspect of traditional forms of magic and witchcraft, not all pagans use it but it is a part of magickal rituals/shamanism. Even something as seemingly mild as tobacco has been used in strong concentrations to produce hallucinations. I think that any kind of mind-altering drug no matter how it alters the mind can put people into a spiritual state where they are more receptive to demonic influence or their own evil inclinations. Magic potions aren't just something in a Mario game, real witches use them in an attempt to contact spirits, they wouldn't consider that evil but I think most of us would. I'm certain that the Bible calls these types of practices a sin. Even if someone uses drugs recreationally, they are engaging in part of the same practice even if their intention is not to participate in occult activities, the result is the same.

Oh really.... I strongly disagree with what you write. The fact is that people have used chemicals for medicine for a long time. It is no different than what the Pharma companies are trying to push down our throats. I think Pharma companies are much more evil than the casual illicit drug user. So many people I know have bigger problems with addiction to prescription pain killers than to illegal drugs. To paint them all with this brush of 'witchcraft' and 'sorcery' is simply insane!


The 'Bible' as you call it does say that sorcery and consulting with the dead are forbidden. But as I posted before the types of witchcraft and sorcery are clearly spelled out and none of them involved smoking or taking drugs...

http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/48938547.html

HOME SPIRITUALITY PHILOSOPHY
NOT JEWISH

None of these three general approaches are in keeping with Judaism. What is the Torah perspective regarding witchcraft?

The Torah takes a very negative attitude towards witchcraft in its various formats, such as:

"A sorcerer shall not be allowed to live." (Exodus 22:17)

"For you are coming into a land that G-d is granting to you; do not learn the ways of the abominations of the native people. There shall not be found amongst you ... a sorcerer, soothsayer or engager of witchcraft ... or one who calls up the dead. For it is an abomination before G-d, and it is on account of these abominations that G-d is giving you their land." (Deut. 18:9-12)

But why? What is the problem with it?

The so-called "devil vs. G-d" approach is an anathema to Judaism because of the whiff of dualism inherent in it. G-d is One, and only One. He acts in many different ways, but there are no "two" armies in the full sense of the word.

Judaism does speak of the "Satan/devil," but it sees Satan as an agent of G-d, testing the sincerity of man's deeds, the strength of his convictions, and the stamina of his moral fiber. Although this so-called devil seems to entice man to do wrong, he is not inherently an evil being. Rather, he is conducting a "sting" operation; overtly enticing to bad, but in reality working for G-d. A cursory reading of the beginning of Job conveys that message: G-d sends out Satan to test Job's righteousness.

Just as a dentist or doctor tests the firmness of a bone or flesh by probing it, just as the army tests the integrity and trustworthiness of its intelligence agents by tempting them, so too does G-d test man. A test reveals the inner worthiness of a person's deeds, demonstrating what they are really made of.
So, if magic and occult do exist, why are they so evil?
.
.
.

http://www.campsci.com/hagadah/magic_and_witchcraft.htm

http://www.aish.com/atr/Witchcraft__Magic.html?catid=909609
Witchcraft & Magic

What does Judaism say about the existence of black magic? Is this a real power or just an illusion?

The Aish Rabbi Replies:

The Torah accepts that magic and sorcery do exist. Along with nature's normal way of functioning, God also created a way for humans to manipulate it - by the means of magic. Although God does not permit mankind to use sorcery, He had to allow this deviant path to exist in order to give mankind an element of choice. Otherwise we would lack the unique spiritual trait of free will.

However, the Torah prohibits the practice of sorcery, fortune-telling, and divination -- via chance, necromancy, cards, or other fortune-telling paraphernalia. (Exodus 22:17; Leviticus 19:26,31; Deuteronomy 18:10-11)

Maimonides writes that it is forbidden to perform acts and claim that they are done through supernatural forces, because this is what the idol-worshippers used to do -- to bring "compelling proof" for their idol worship, via magic and fortune-telling. (Laws of Idolatry 11:16)

According to Rabbi A.Y. Kook ("Da'at Kohen" 69), it is forbidden to perform magic or fortune-telling. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein also discouraged doing magic tricks, but wrote that it would be permitted if the magician informed people of how the trick was performed beforehand.

To learn more, read "Faith and Folly" by Rabbi Yaakov Hillel (Feldheim.com).

[Rubystars]

Oh really.... I strongly disagree with what you write. The fact is that people have used chemicals for medicine for a long time. It is no different than what the Pharma companies are trying to push down our throats. I think Pharma companies are much more evil than the casual illicit drug user. So many people I know have bigger problems with addiction to prescription pain killers than to illegal drugs. To paint them all with this brush of 'witchcraft' and 'sorcery' is simply insane!


The 'Bible' as you call it does say that sorcery and consulting with the dead are forbidden. But as I posted before the types of witchcraft and sorcery are clearly spelled out and none of them involved smoking or taking drugs...

I think using it for purely medical reasons is different, but mind altering substances still must be used with great caution in that context. Using it for recreation is the same as using it for magical purposes in my opinion.

Sorcery often uses drugs as part of its practice.

So you're saying that only some types of sorcery are forbidden right? So shamanism is perfectly ok?

Some people take hallucinogens or other drugs in ritual settings in order to have a spiritual experience, as part of pagan practice. Do you think this is a sin or do you think it's kosher?