JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: The Noachide on February 04, 2012, 10:58:58 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om9xF4eRTp4 ;D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPk5-6Dm8ls&feature=related
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So sad that someone is labeled a Jew solely by his genetics.
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Dr. Dan isn't a moron, he's one of the smartest people on the forum.
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What the hell? Its the twelve tribes of Israel, those are the jews and their descendants, muslims can't convert to it its not a set of rules but deals we made with Hashem, and you others can read the laws of freedom and copy, but you'll never be jews.
Also what do you mean by labelled a Jew? Is that some sort of problem? Do you hope not to have that label? I've been given more labels than a nascar, and Jew is definately the one I have no shame in.
How would you label a Jew then? Rituals? So glad someone can be labelled a moron solely by what he says.
So I suppose all those black Hebrews are legitimate Jews too? Your point of view seems to say so.
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What the hell? Its the twelve tribes of Israel, those are the jews and their descendants, muslims can't convert to it its not a set of rules but deals we made with Hashem, and you others can read the laws of freedom and copy, but you'll never be jews.
Also what do you mean by labelled a Jew? Is that some sort of problem? Do you hope not to have that label? I've been given more labels than a nascar, and Jew is definately the one I have no shame in.
How would you label a Jew then? Rituals? So glad someone can be labelled a moron solely by what he says.
The Torah allows anyone who seriously wants to convert to be able to convert.Ruth converted King David's Grandmother as well as rahab a great great great etc Grandmother of King David.Now some more Rabbi Meir, 'the miracle worker': reputedly a descendant of the Roman Emperor Nero, he lived in Asia Minor in the 2nd century, converted to Judaism and helped compile the Mishnah (Oral Law). Meir is credited with rebuilding Jewish life after the abortive Bar Kochba Rebellion. His wife, Beruriah, was a great sage in her own right. Also Onkelos: another Roman aristocrat, he became a Jew and was said to have written the famous Babylonian Targum (translation of the Tanach into Aramaic) with glosses and commentaries.
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I don't trust a number of folks in this thread. For starters, there is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Secondly, the racial talk here smacks of something WNs would say.
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What the hell? Its the twelve tribes of Israel, those are the jews and their descendants, muslims can't convert to it its not a set of rules but deals we made with Hashem, and you others can read the laws of freedom and copy, but you'll never be jews.
Also what do you mean by labelled a Jew? Is that some sort of problem? Do you hope not to have that label? I've been given more labels than a nascar, and Jew is definately the one I have no shame in.
How would you label a Jew then? Rituals? So glad someone can be labelled a moron solely by what he says.
Someone who has been generations lost and only has a few Jewish traditions to show for while having accepted another religion, in my opinion, needs a Jewish conversion by an Orthodox Rabbi and preferably from Israel. To me it doesn't just matter if one's mother's mother's mother's mother was a Jew and they are already practicing Islam. And it doesn't matter if there was ever any lineage of Judaism in one's "blood". If someone wants to accept to the Jewish faith and they are in that particular boat..lost tribe or not, need to undergo a conversion in my opinion.
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I don't trust a number of folks in this thread. For starters, there is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Secondly, the racial talk here smacks of something WNs would say.
incredibly ironic statement coming from you
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What the hell? Its the twelve tribes of Israel, those are the jews and their descendants, muslims can't convert to it its not a set of rules but deals we made with Hashem, and you others can read the laws of freedom and copy, but you'll never be jews.
Also what do you mean by labelled a Jew? Is that some sort of problem? Do you hope not to have that label? I've been given more labels than a nascar, and Jew is definately the one I have no shame in.
How would you label a Jew then? Rituals? So glad someone can be labelled a moron solely by what he says.
My friend, please refrain from name calling. Thanks. And welcome to the forum.
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incredibly ironic statement coming from you
He can't be a WN thj, it's impossible. :laugh:
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He can't be a WN thj, it's impossible. :laugh:
both you and him might as well be
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both you and him might as well be
He's not white and I don't hate Jews.
He doesn't hate Jews either.
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That Doreen Dotan promoted the "at least 50% of 'palestinians' are really Jewish" "findings" too.
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t_h_j, if you have a problem with this forum, then why don't you go find someone on adl or splc
Btw, before calling people WNs, I'll advise you to read threads from StørmFrønt and vnnforum, then judge people however you wish.
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This first video is a bit shady just because it gives the impression that huge amounts of the Arabs come from Jewish roots, when the vast majority of the Arabs did not even come to the area until the Jews started developing the land. However, that being said, whether or not it's true, Arabs who believe they have ties to Jewish heritage should act on that belief by pursuing Judaism like many of the Arabs in this video and becoming fully Jewish according to Halacha. This approach is much better than the attitude of many Arabs who say "we have ancient Israelite blood so the land belongs to Muslims." Israel belongs to the Jewish people based on their adherence to the Torah, not their genetics.
Amen Dan!
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t_h_j, if you have a problem with this forum, then why don't you go find someone on adl or splc
Btw, before calling people WNs, I'll advise you to read threads from StørmFrønt and vnnforum, then judge people however you wish.
I don't think you should say much after the things you have said in the past!
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What the hell? Its the twelve tribes of Israel, those are the jews and their descendants, muslims can't convert to it
Um, anyone can convert to be Jewish. And there is no such thing as the 12 tribes anymore because no one knows where they ended up, and they intermarried and mixed in with gentiles, so even people who descend from the 12 tribes in a technical ancestry sense would still have to convert to Judaism to re enter the fold. That is reality. Only those born to a Jewish mother or who converted are Jews. No other way to be Jewish.
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Yeah I know, but I've been in this massive debate that "oh Judaism has nothing to do with family its just like every other religion", which is stupid. Even if they converted, they'd still be behind the veil, and then if they married a jewish girl then the guys could come sit.
Here, everyone I see convert is by some liberal commie rabbi that's "oh my religion is really music its my connection to G-d I don't judge we're all happy" and then they convert people that go around like yeah I'm Jewish now, but they don't actually do anything or read Torah. I think conversion rights should be revoked from un-religious rabbis (practically an oxymoron), and just if they can understand the kaballah, they can join, but I'd rather them become christians if its in name only, its makes Jews look bad. Send missionaries to africa to covert the families of these black "hebrews", and tell me what judaism would look like.
I'm saying family isn't all there is, but its most important, second only to fearing and loving hashem.
Conversion is only valid if it's according to the standards of Jewish law. The commie pseudorabbi "converts" you see who don't do anything and don't know any Torah, and converted by deform rabbis, are not actually Jews.
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Um, anyone can convert to be Jewish. And there is no such thing as the 12 tribes anymore because no one knows where they ended up, and they intermarried and mixed in with gentiles, so even people who descend from the 12 tribes in a technical ancestry sense would still have to convert to Judaism to re enter the fold. That is reality. Only those born to a Jewish mother or who converted are Jews. No other way to be Jewish.
Thank you KWRBT!
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He's not white and I don't hate Jews.
He doesn't hate Jews either.
the things you and him say about blacks are what youd find on sfront.
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I don't think you should say much after the things you have said in the past!
quote me.
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quote me.
I was not talking to you ...
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Thank you, that's my point. If a gay progressive rabbi converts his new gentile lover, he should no longer be known as a jew, and the convert never was. I'm all for the smart gentiles in kaballah study converting. So long as its not by that rabbi, or equally ung-dly rabbis. And the twelve tribes of Israel still holds a nominal meaning, alothough even me who can trace before the 14th century dosen't know that. That's who the land of Israel was promised to and their descendants, and without their descendants, the covenant with Israel would be finished (though there will always be at least one Jew, so long as there's a sun/any star).
When I hear of things like people converting because Judaism is more tolerant of gays then Christianity, backed up by "oh well Lot was still living in the city with them and they all liked him" (and yes, they should read a couple lines later, I know), I don't really want just anyone converting. I need a better excuse to keep them out than lineage, obviously. Anyone find a better idea?
Wait a second..that's what I said and you said I was being moronic...What did you disagree with what I wrote originally?
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the things you and him say about blacks are what youd find on sfront.
I can't read very much of that site at once because it gives me a creepy feeling but some of what do you find on there is stuff praising certain blacks like Farrakhan. White nazis generally get along with black nazis because they have the common thread of anti-Jewish hatred.
This is the late founder of the American Nazi Party, Rockwell, at a meeting of black Muslims:
http://www.nationalgalleries.org/media_collection/6/PGP%20264.7.jpg
Of course there are posts condemning black crime and MLK but I think even Chaim has talked about black crime, the evilness of American black culture, and the evil of Martin Luther King, so those topics are certainly not exclusive to white nationalists.
What people on this forum who talk about these issues have to say about these topics is not (at least from me) meant to encourage hatred against all black people or say that all black individuals are like that. We know that's not true. As I mentioned before in another post, when I get black people honestly talking about this topic, they are often more 'racist' against other black people than any other group I've run across. I've heard some blacks say that most blacks are a bunch of N-words, etc. in much stronger terms than I've ever heard a white person talk about it in person.
P.S. I always get a kick out of it when people accuse our non-white members who are candid about their feelings toward black culture of being "white supremacists" or "white nationalists". Not that I want them to be falsely accused, because I don't, but it makes me laugh a little at how silly that is.
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Hmm. Solely was the key-word I guess... I repent for any insult I made to you. What roles does genetics play in Judaism then? Someone that can trace centuries of rabbis and scholars is different than this muslim convert, but how, in your opinion?
I forgive you..I think perhaps I miswrote or you misunderstood what I wrote.
I'm saying that just because one could potentially trace a Jewish gene..or simply trace back lineage from many many years of Jewish ancestry is simply not enough, in my opinion, to consider someone Jewish.
For example there are a lot of lost tribes from different parts of the world such as the Ben Menasseh from India or Thai Israelites or Ethiopian Israelites etc. For some of these people, they do carry many traditions that are very common to Judaism and for many of them I have no doubt they are of Israelite "blood". However despite that, many of these tribes have gone far off from Judaism and many have converted other religions. To me, it doesn't matter even if the mother's mother's mother's mother was a Jew, if they are practicing something else, they still need to undergo a true conversion from an Orthodox Rabbi and preferably one from Israel. And that person who converts needs to really practice Judaism and not pick and choose like the fake converted Jews.
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I agree that converts should practice Judaism in order to be considered as such. Two Jews that keep every law, one is a muslim convert, and the other is pure blodded and can trace back over a millineum; do you see no diffrence in them as Jews?
A true converter is just as much a Jew as one that born from their mother who is a Jew...even if the blood Jew is secular is just as much a Jew as the converted non genetic Jew.
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A true converter is just as much a Jew as one that born from their mother who is a Jew...even if the blood Jew is secular is just as much a Jew as the converted non genetic Jew.
Yes there are several Mitzvot which concern treatment of the convert. It is clear that conversion was a part of Judaism going back to Sinai. Remember that Moses wife had to convert, as did his father-in-law the righteous convert Yitro...
And it is well know that Ruth, the great-grandmother of David HaMelch, was a convert. Thus the line of Moshiach himself is from a convert...
http://www.jewishmag.com/10mag/dt/dt.htm
The Inner Being of Ruth
By Samuel Glickstein
The book of Ruth is one of the holy books of the Bible. The book describes events that happened almost three thousand years ago. From the events that are recorded in this book, which is attributed to Samuel the prophet, we learn many interesting ideas concerning conversion to Judaism and the house of David and the Messiah. Yet in this book, there are many problematic ideas. One of them concerns the conversion of Ruth, the great-grandmother of David and the Messiah to come. In the book, she is presented as a person who marries a Jew, yet her conversion credentials are sorely lacking. To understand this monument difficulty let us first present a brief overview.
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The Torah allows anyone who seriously wants to convert to be able to convert.Ruth converted King David's Grandmother as well as rahab a great great great etc Grandmother of King David.Now some more Rabbi Meir, 'the miracle worker': reputedly a descendant of the Roman Emperor Nero, he lived in Asia Minor in the 2nd century, converted to Judaism and helped compile the Mishnah (Oral Law). Meir is credited with rebuilding Jewish life after the abortive Bar Kochba Rebellion. His wife, Beruriah, was a great sage in her own right. Also Onkelos: another Roman aristocrat, he became a Jew and was said to have written the famous Babylonian Targum (translation of the Tanach into Aramaic) with glosses and commentaries. some more from wiki
Aquila of Sinope (Acylas), from traditional Greek religion[70]
Bithiah, from traditional Egyptian religion
Bulan, king of the Khazars, from traditional Khazar religion [71]
Jethro, priest of Midian and father-in-law of Moses [6], from a Mideastern religion
Makeda, queen of Sheba, from a Mideastern or Ethiopian religion[72]
Dhu Nuwas, king of Yemen, from a Mideastern religion [73]
Obadiah the prophet, from a Mideastern religion[74]
Sh'maya, Sage and President of the Sanhedrin, apparently from a Mideastern religion[75]
Avtalyon, Sage and Vice-President of the Sanhedrin, apparently from a Mideastern religion[76]
Onkelos, Hebrew scholar and translator, from ancient Roman religion[77]
Ruth, great-grandmother of King David, from a Near Eastern religion.[78]
Helena, queen of Adiabene, from traditional Greek religion. [7]
Izates bar Monobaz, king of Adiabene, from a Persian or Mideastern religion. [8]
Symacho, wife of Izates bar Monobaz, from a Persian or Mideastern religion. [9]
Monobaz II, king of Adiabene, from a Persian or Mideastern religion. [10]
Khazars, a semi-nomadic Turkic people from Central Asia (historical Khazaria), many of whom converted to Judaism en masse in the 8th and 9th Centuries CE from a Khazar religion. [11]
Osenath, from Canaanite religion (her name relates to Anat)
Zipporah, from a Mideastern or northern African religion
Yael, from Canaanite or another Near Eastern religion
Flavia Domitilla, from traditional ancient Roman religion (possibly to Jewish Christianity, as she is also a Christian saint)
Titus Flavius Clemens (consul), great-nephew of the Roman Emperor Vespasian, from traditional Roman religion (possibly to Jewish Christianity, as he is also a Christian saint)
Fulvia (wife of Saturninus), wife of Emperor Tiberius' close friend, Saturninus, from traditional Roman religion.
Tub'a Abu Kariba As'ad, from Arabian religion, was the H
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As Rabbi Kahane used to say: "A convert is as Jewish as Rabbi Kahane."
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Rabbi Kahane used to talk in the third person? ... he didn't in they must go
I have heard him say it several times in his lectures which are posted on youtube...
I don't know but I suspect he says it in 'Why be Jewish'...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkIEAAuhy-A