JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dan Ben Noah on April 12, 2012, 06:59:13 PM
-
Shalom
-
And people wonder why I am not so happy with Christianity... I know people will claim that these are not 'real Christians' but Im sure that they consider themselves to be as real as can be. These churches are jealous of the Jewish people and had hoped they we would have been wiped out in the Holocaust. But the fact that we are alive makes them livid. These so-called Christians are a blight on the world and they are preventing the world from the blessings which Hashem will bestow with the coming of Moshiach. Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.
I am sure that my heart will be full of awe and reverence of Hashem when he dashes these unbelievers heads against the rocks...
PS: My anger is not directed toward those righteous Christians who understand the place of the Jewish people in the world today. I am willing to agree to disagree on theology in order to confront the true physical enemies of the Jewish people.
-
These people are scum and disgusting dhimmis!
-
I don't know why the heck some Chirstians think Jews need to convert. They already fulfill the law, Jesus came to give the law(the OT) to the Gentile so they could fulfill it. Anyone have a good translation of Matthew 5:17?
I'm probably going to get hammered for this, but I don't care. >:(
-
And people wonder why I am not so happy with Christianity... I know people will claim that these are not 'real Christians' but Im sure that they consider themselves to be as real as can be. These churches are jealous of the Jewish people and had hoped they we would have been wiped out in the Holocaust. But the fact that we are alive makes them livid. These so-called Christians are a blight on the world and they are preventing the world from the blessings which Hashem will bestow with the coming of Moshiach. Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.
I am sure that my heart will be full of awe and reverence of Hashem when he dashes these unbelievers heads against the rocks...
PS: My anger is not directed toward those righteous Christians who understand the place of the Jewish people in the world today. I am willing to agree to disagree on theology in order to confront the true physical enemies of the Jewish people.
::) Who cares about your anger or needs your approval? Do not associate all Christians with this bunch of crazies. Things are right in the world now. Not being called an idol worshiper in every other thread was throwing me off.
-
This lame argument reminds me of how liberals say that blacks can't be racist because they don't control the institutions, even though one of them is president.
basic summary of the "March madness" that was Christ at the Checkpoint: Jews rejected Jesus so all forms of terror must be supported against the Jews,
Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Basically this means move on and let G-d deal with the situation and worry about judgments and all of that, but don't harass them further once someone knows about and rejects the gospel.
The NT doesn't say to hurt anyone who rejects Jesus.
and therefore there is no such thing as anti-Semitism.
The fact that they are specifically levelling this charge against Jews and not all nonbelievers in general seems to indicate to me that they most definitely ARE very anti-Semitic.
Funny how they don't say there's no such thing as being anti-Muslim just because Muslims don't believer in the NT.
The New Testament replaced the Torah so now the Quran must be followed in the Holy Land.
Everything I've ever heard growing up says the Torah is canon Holy Scripture. Also the Muslims believe that the Qu'ran replaced the NT. Saying that the Qu'ran is correct in any way, then they must reject Christianity too because Muslims believe that both Judaism and Christianity are obsolete religions.
Despite the fact that Israel is the safest place in the Middle East for Christians and Israel allows Christians to congregate just to bash Jews, it is Jews, not Islam, who are responsible for Christians being attacked by Muslims in Muslim countries, and it is Jews who are responsible for Muslims not accepting Christianity.
Typical anti-Semites blame Jews for everything.
Since Jews are not living up to Christians' very reasonable expectations that they give up their religion, their land, and their lives, Jews are labeled "the impossible people".
Wow what arrogance.
-
::) Who cares about your anger or needs your approval? Do not associate all Christians with this bunch of crazies. Things are right in the world now. Not being called an idol worshiper in every other thread was throwing me off.
Lots of people care bullcat3.... More than you can imagine...
I certainly don't approve of these pukes... If you think of defending them that is your own decision..
If you read what I said you will see that I don't have a problem with Christians who are true to the core belief in G-d and his Chosen people.
These so-called Christians are a blight on the world and they are preventing the world from the blessings which Hashem will bestow with the coming of Moshiach. Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.
.
.
PS: My anger is not directed toward those righteous Christians who understand the place of the Jewish people in the world today. I am willing to agree to disagree on theology in order to confront the true physical enemies of the Jewish people.
My problem which you seem to have an issue with, is that these people support the enemies of the Jewish people and make slander in the name of their misguided religion. And I have every right to feel the way I do. When I read the slander and lies which these so-called religious people level against my people. You will never understand it because you are not Jewish. My family was persecuted in Ukraine and had to leave before the pogroms which devastated eastern European Jewry at the turn of the century.
And at this point don't ever expect me to show you compassion... Your constant attempt to paint me as a Christian hater is getting old and tired..
Let me put you on the spot BC3.... Do you believe that the Jewish people are still G-ds chosen people? Do we have a right to live in our promised and Holy land?
-
And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.
I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...
-
And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.
I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...
I don't need your compassion.
I don't need your P.S., that is just to C.Y.A.
I don't defend sick animals of any kind.
I don't have to explain my support of Jewish people to you.
That is a silly question. How does it put me on the spot? I support the Jewish people more than you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't try to drive good Christians, off the forum, away from supporting the goals of JTF.
-
So, how do you feel about Zionist Christians, who consider themselves to be "the real Christians" also? Are we just naive and misguided and fake Christians because we aren't anti-Semites?
-
Mel Gibson is a sick animal. No right thinking person would support him.
You have no problem with the idol worshipers you work with? That's big of you.
And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.
I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...
-
Guys, remember, there was another article today where Christians United for Israel put up a billboard that says "Stand With Israel". There's no reason for hard feelings when we are among Jews and Christians who all support Israel. Plus, if you start attacking each other, I may not be able to post articles like this anymore for fear of polarizing the forum by religion, and I should be able to post them on a forum like this because anti-Semitism should be exposed in all its forms.
My problem is with Jew hating Christians who apply a form of Christian antisemitism. Both Gibson and these animals share this theological view. This particular form of antisemitism has caused more Jewish hardship than can be explained...
I am sorry Dan that this is what is coming from this post. I had no intention of upsetting any forum members. I would have expected that non-Jews would be more understanding of this and would apologize for those who have made the offense {those Christians who slander Judaism in the name of religion}.
Anyone interesting in understanding this form of antisemitism should read : http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=264:anti-semitism-the-persecution-of-G-d-and-his-chosen-people&catid=112:book-reviews&Itemid=510
http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48951151.html
http://www.shemayisrael.com/publicat/hazon/tzedaka/antisemitism.htm
-
And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.
I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...
Have mercy :::D The problem with you muman is you lump all the so called Christians into one boat :::D People don't like to be placed into a picture where they don't belong... Half hearted disclaimers after your fire and brimstone posts do little good...
-
Guys, remember, there was another article today where Christians United for Israel put up a billboard that says "Stand With Israel". There's no reason for hard feelings when we are among Jews and Christians who all support Israel. Plus, if you start attacking each other, I may not be able to post articles like this anymore for fear of polarizing the forum by religion, and I should be able to post them on a forum like this because anti-Semitism should be exposed in all its forms.
You are 100% correct!
Antisemitism should be exposed in all its forms.
I have no problem with the article you posted.
There should be no hard feelings when we are among Jews and Christians who all support Israel, is exactly my point.
If I find being called an 'idol worshiper' offensive, you can bet your bottom dollar it will turn away newer Christians to the forum. I believe in G-d. I do not worship idols. Period.
Muman needs to stick to explaining the faith he practices and understands best. His derogatory comments about Christians is detrimental to the forum.
I agree with CJD. I don't want to be lumped in with crazy people of any faith.
-
Have mercy :::D The problem with you muman is you lump all the so called Christians into one boat :::D People don't like to be placed into a picture where they don't belong... Half hearted disclaimers after your fire and brimstone posts do little good...
I did not make a blanket statement about all Christians. As I pointed out in my reply to Bullcat3 I was referring specifically to those Christians who proclaim that Jews are despised by G-d and that we are 'of the devil'. In the past I related how a childhood friend one day told me that I was going to Hell because I didn't believe in his 'savior'... I have heard this story from other Jews also, so it must not have been a singular occurrence.
I will again apologize if I was misunderstood. I do not feel this way about Christians who are willing to learn and grow and accept the Jewish people as they are {not wanting to 'convert' us}.
-
You are 100% correct!
Antisemitism should be exposed in all its forms.
I have no problem with the article you posted.
There should be no hard feelings when we are among Jews and Christians who all support Israel, is exactly my point.
If I find being called an 'idol worshiper' offensive, you can bet your bottom dollar it will turn away newer Christians to the forum. I believe in G-d. I do not worship idols. Period.
Muman needs to stick to explaining the faith he practices and understands best. His derogatory comments about Christians is detrimental to the forum.
I agree with CJD. I don't want to be lumped in with crazy people of any faith.
Where did I call you an idol worshiper? I said those Christians who proclaim that Jews are despised by G-d are idol worshipers. They are worshiping the idol of Islam and align themselves with Amalek himself.
-
I don't need your compassion.
I don't need your P.S., that is just to C.Y.A.
I don't defend sick animals of any kind.
I don't have to explain my support of Jewish people to you.
That is a silly question. How does it put me on the spot? I support the Jewish people more than you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't try to drive good Christians, off the forum, away from supporting the goals of JTF.
bc3, you are excedingly irrational. You are the one who started with the personal attacks. You are also very rude at times.
I am not driving Christians away from the forum.... I have actually brought several Christians to read this forum..
PS: Your little games are amusing..
-
And I must clarify that I have no issue with Christians who have no problem with Jews. So long as they do not paint us as G-d killers, as long as they don't paint us as satanic, as long as they don't consider our holy books to be of the devil... I have no problem with the majority of Christians I work with each and every day.
As long as I can keep my head firmly attached to my body.
I certainly have issues with those who see Jews as an obstacle for world peace. These are the only ones who I will speak out against... An example would be Mel gibson {yemach shemo}...
The Christians on this forum are against that too.
-
As long as I can keep my head firmly attached to my body.
The Christians on this forum are against that too.
Rubystars... You have always been a voice of reason. Did you take my comment as an attack on all Christians. I was very clear to specify those who I have disdain for. I am surprised BC is attacking me instead of addressing the vile drek which these animals are spouting in the name of your religion. Will you speak out against it?
-
It is sad that it is easier for non-Jews to beat up on a Jew who speaks out against this kind of hatred than to address the hatred and cease it. Jews don't go around worrying about what Christians think of us. But it appears that when a nerve is struck, by making the diecide blood libel against us, that everyone piles on the Jew who has every right to feel anger at those who have oppressed my people.
Sometimes I wonder what some of you are doing supporting a people who you have no pity on.
Have the Jewish people EVER oppressed the Christians? In all of history? I do not think so...
-
I did not make a blanket statement about all Christians. As I pointed out in my reply to Bullcat3 I was referring specifically to those Christians who proclaim that Jews are despised by G-d and that we are 'of the devil'. In the past I related how a childhood friend one day told me that I was going to Hell because I didn't believe in his 'savior'... I have heard this story from other Jews also, so it must not have been a singular occurrence.
I will again apologize if I was misunderstood. I do not feel this way about Christians who are willing to learn and grow and accept the Jewish people as they are {not wanting to 'convert' us}.
There are Christian groups that do hold to policy like that but to be honest I can't say I have ever heard it from any clergy I have come into contact with... Personally I have less use for proselytizers of that sort than even you do.
-
Also I will add that it is not a Jews place to tell a non-Jew what to believe concerning the nature of our Creator. Aside from pushing the seven Noachide laws we don't proselytize. As long as our neighbors treat us respectfully and do not start wars with us, we can live in peace with anyone.
What is in a mans heart is his business, and his Creators business, but it is not mine. So long as I don't go around claiming that if you don't believe in this or that that you will go to hell {unless the person is a Jew, who we must rebuke}. The nations of the world are supposed to believe in the ONE G-d but it is not our responsibility to make them believe anything. We are a people who strive to set an example which others will attempt to emulate.
I have no anger at any JTF member {aside from one who has made this a personal issue}. I am willing to move forward and give the benefit of the doubt to everyone {unless they have demonstrated Jew hatred}. And I am surprised that my opinion caused so much problems for some.
I will attempt to leave this thread alone from now on because I feel that no matter how I explain myself some people will still find fault with my position. I feel I have not done anything wrong {except for maybe not being as clear as I can be concerning who I feel anger towards} and really do feel contempt for people who slander the Jewish people as the original article suggested.
-
There are Christian groups that do hold to policy like that but to be honest I can't say I have ever heard it from any clergy I have come into contact with... Personally I have less use for proselytizers of that sort than even you do.
Thank Goodness you have a righteous congregation...
-
In Mumans defence, I have heard Chirstians say Jews are going to hell for not believing in the messiah. Jews have suffered through all of time, they have a right to be a little defensive.
-
Like I posted earlier, those people are disgusting dhimmis and scum! And I don't care what they call themselves either.
They are truly evil and repugnant for siding with Muslim terrorists against Israeli Jews who never harmed them. I just don't understand where they're coming from. Do these people even care about the Copts being murdered in Egypt? Or how about that Iranian man who was sentenced to death for converting to Christianity? Or what about what happened in Nigeria?
Like Rubystars pointed out, how come they have nothing against Muslims, who believe Islam supersedes their religion?
Personally, I appreciate all the members here, Jewish, Christian, or Hindu. But when it comes to these crazies, the gloves come off.
-
So, how do you feel about Zionist Christians, who consider themselves to be "the real Christians" also? Are we just naive and misguided and fake Christians because we aren't anti-Semites?
Brennanfan,
I already answered this question. I have no problem with what others believe so long as they are not a threat to the Jewish people.
-
This was a good article. This stuff needs to be talked about.
-
And people wonder why I am not so happy with Christianity... I know people will claim that these are not 'real Christians' but Im sure that they consider themselves to be as real as can be. These churches are jealous of the Jewish people and had hoped they we would have been wiped out in the Holocaust. But the fact that we are alive makes them livid. These so-called Christians are a blight on the world and they are preventing the world from the blessings which Hashem will bestow with the coming of Moshiach. Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.
What do sick people like this have to do with all of Christianity? They certainly don't reflect my beliefs and I wouldn't make excuses for them.
Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.
What does this mean? I don't think I misunderstood what I read. That applies to all Christians. I don't disagree with someone holding this belief. I don't want people to go against their beliefs. I just think we could try to be a bit more diplomatic with each other. Especially if we are trying to attract new members to support Israel and restore America. Sorry, if that makes me irrational.
-
And people wonder why I am not so happy with Christianity... I know people will claim that these are not 'real Christians' but Im sure that they consider themselves to be as real as can be. These churches are jealous of the Jewish people and had hoped they we would have been wiped out in the Holocaust. But the fact that we are alive makes them livid. These so-called Christians are a blight on the world and they are preventing the world from the blessings which Hashem will bestow with the coming of Moshiach. Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.
What do sick people like this have to do with all of Christianity? They certainly don't reflect my beliefs and I wouldn't make excuses for them.
Their belief in a false G-d and a false messiah makes them just as bad as idol worshippers.
What does this mean? I don't think I misunderstood what I read. That applies to all Christians. I don't disagree with someone holding this belief. I don't want people to go against their beliefs. I just think we could try to be a bit more diplomatic with each other. Especially if we are trying to attract new members to support Israel and restore America. Sorry, if that makes me irrational.
Not true...Their refers to those who hate the Jewish people. Their religion is a false one, and those who follow it are doomed like those who worship idols... I suspect you mis-parsed what was written.
I don't truly know what is believed by 'all' Christians but what I garner is that G-d created us all, and he wants us to love him... Of course I agree with this.. There are things I disagree with theologically but I don't make it an issue. I let people believe what they want to... Unless of course their beliefs involved destroying the Jewish people.
These churches refers to churches which teach replacement theology or that Jews are guilty of deicide.. These so-called Christians again refers to those who call themselves Christians while simultaneously expressing hate for Jews, Judaism, and all which is Holy to G_d... Their belief refers to those beliefs I just enumerated
I suspect the previous sentence which suggests that these Christians actually consider their beliefs to be genuine may be mis-interpreted. I was just making a comment that often those Jew hating Christians will assert that their belief is the true 'gospel' of their messiah.
-
I think this is basically a political conference. They use the religious terms, in that they didn't believe for their political goals. They want to appear "progressive". It is the same as with the Al Sharpton and Manning Christians as well as the leftist anti Lubawitch Jews like Micha Brumlik or the Tikun Olam fraktion.
In a few years is this phenomenon finished, we have only to wait. I highly doubt, that they get enough young people in order to balance their demographic issue. ;D
-
There's bound to be some bitter feelings between Christians and Jews when our minds are focused on the past and, I should say, on religion. On the one hand, it is very understandable that Jews should feel resentful because of the persecutions they have endured in the name of Christianity. On the other hand, honest Jews should understand that some Christians might feel upset by the numerous anti-Christian and, more generally, anti-Gentile statements in the Talmud and by the contempt felt by a number of Jews toward non-Jews.
-
When we are faced with a group that uses theological argument to justify extermination of our people I think we have the right to refute their so called theology.
-
Muman, I didn't have a problem with your original post, I also think that this article should wake up more non-Jews to what Israeli Jews deal with so they won't be quite as surprised if they see anti-Christianity coming from some settlers.
Bullcat, I don't think Muman originally intended an attack on you or Christians as a group.
The problem is when things get personal and the line is crossed between debate and fighting, so if you have a point to make try to make it in a roundabout way so it's not directed against an individual. That is especially true for controversial threads like this one which is why we need to watch when we get into red light territory.
I'm sorry, Dan. Making that type of point in a roundabout way is like making a derogatory statement in a roundabout way. I have no problem with the article you posted. You are right about shedding light on antisemetic groups. I have a problem with all Christian groups being lumped together and in a roundabout way it was a personal attack.
-
These people are fake Fundamentalist probably a large amount that clown around with Jim Wallis's sojourners they are an embarrassment to real Fundamentalists.They are what Mickey Lerner is to Judaism libs taking on a religious name in order to give them credence
-
Rubystars... You have always been a voice of reason. Did you take my comment as an attack on all Christians. I was very clear to specify those who I have disdain for.
Sometimes when you do clarify now it can come off as disengenuous (even if you don't mean it that way) considering some of the posts you've made in the past which seemed to blanketly attack all Christians even if you're not doing so now.
You have moderated your posting style in the past several months most of the time so I have to give you credit for that much. You're not as openly hostile as some other posters have been but sometimes it does seem passive-aggressive.
Some of this may come from legitimate irritation at the actual "Christian" anti-Semites such as those listed in the article which make Christians seem evil. Just remember that there is more to the story than just them. Dan ben Noah makes a good point in that he should be able to post articles like this one to expose anti-Semites of all kinds but I think it can be a very touchy issue because some of the members including you sometimes seem to lump us all together and that is hurtful.
I think we want to be able to feel as if we're welcomed here because we're here to help as much as we can in a forum format, and it's not as if we found a Jewish forum and just pushed our way in, which really would have been rude and disrespectful if we had, but we were actually invited here. That's an important distinction that I think should be made and it really makes all the difference IMHO.
It was one of my Jewish friends on Pal Talk that suggested I join this forum and when I got here Chaim was making it clear that people of different religions were welcome here as long as we're not anti-Semitic. He's always been welcoming to us and understanding of the fact that while there are major differences, we can still work together in respect.
Remember that we're choosing to go against the majority of the world to side with Israel and the Jewish people against their enemies and one of the ways we do this is through JTF. We take quite a bit of flack for it as so many people hate Israel now and take any chance to bash it and to bash anyone who is pro-Israel. You probably don't even want to know some of the things I've been called for being part of this forum. I'm not trying to sound like a martyr here but hopefully you know what I mean. We're already getting this from JTF's enemies and so I think it makes it more difficult when we feel like our fellow JTFers have the same low opinion of us.
I am surprised BC is attacking me instead of addressing the vile drek which these animals are spouting in the name of your religion. Will you speak out against it?
The fact that we're all against the anti-Semites in the article is a given so even if someone doesn't specifically condemn them that doesn't mean they support them. I think what the Christians on the forum are concerned about is that we don't want to be lumped in with that "vile drek" because those kinds of people disgust us too.
-
I notice that my question was never answered. Obviously nobody here is going to be against Zionist Christians, but do you feel that we are fake Christians or heretical Christians?
-
I notice that my question was never answered. Obviously nobody here is going to be against Zionist Christians, but do you feel that we are fake Christians or heretical Christians?
No meant this libs who organized to try to counter Christian Zionists.People like obama husseins dear friend Jim Wallis who also happens to be a dear friend of mickey 'boy' lerner
-
I notice that my question was never answered. Obviously nobody here is going to be against Zionist Christians, but do you feel that we are fake Christians or heretical Christians?
I don't think you are fake since I think you sincerely believe in Jesus and the New Testament. But then again there are still other authentic Christian groups that hate Jews. I don't think they are fake either. The ones who are faking are groups and individuals that are atheists or satanists or whatever but they use Christian rhetoric, like Al Sharpton and "reverend" Wright for example, and also so called pro LGBT and pro abortion churches.
-
These people are fake Fundamentalist probably a large amount that clown around with Jim Wallis's sojourners they are an embarrassment to real Fundamentalists.They are what Mickey Lerner is to Judaism libs taking on a religious name in order to give them credence
Good point. These are self-hating Christians.
-
I don't think you are fake since I think you sincerely believe in Jesus and the New Testament. But then again there are still other authentic Christian groups that hate Jews. I don't think they are fake either. The ones who are faking are groups and individuals that are atheists or satanists or whatever but they use Christian rhetoric, like Al Sharpton and "reverend" Wright for example, and also so called pro LGBT and pro abortion churches.
This question wasn't directed at you, but thank you.
-
This topic seems a bit divisive.
While there are certainly Christian groups that hate Jews, they are not a majority, and many are groups that gentiles themselves hate. Such as Black liberation theology, etc.
However, a HUGE majority of white American Gentiles... INCLUDING many white american catholics do support Israel. Check out groups such as http://www.facebook.com/ChristiansUnitedforIsrael etc. Also, if you look at christian and conservative groups, the Israeli flag is by far the most represented flag (after the USA flag) for member profile pics.
-
I'm glad that I got to see some of these news stories because when someone first told me they'd encountered Christian anti-Semitism I didn't believe them. That was years ago before I knew very much about the history or the situation though. All the Christians I'd ever known had been pro-Israel so I thought that just automatically went with the territory.
At the very least that should show you that there's a significant pro-Israel culture within the USA among Christians or I would never have gotten the impression that I did.
At least we can be aware that there are people out there who have very wrong views and need to be opposed. At the same time I think if someone believes that all Christians are that way then they need to be corrected just as when I thought all people who called themselves Christians were pro-Jewish I was wrong.
I heard a good program on a Christian radio station a couple of years ago which basically took apart replacement theology (the anti-Semitic philosophy that Jews are no longer important to God) and showed how flawed and wrong it was and how it's dangerous to believe in such a doctrine. I wish I could get the audio of it now or something similar because I think it would be useful to help spread the word even more that being anti-Semitic isn't a righteous thing at all.
-
The problem is some people think their religion and beliefs are the only one and the right one, there are faults with every religion but if you are in that religion you don't see it.
If you're Christian you have your beliefs nobody should tell you your religion is wrong and if you're Jewish or Protestant or Baptist, etc. you have your beliefs and nobody should tell you your religion is wrong.
But it is not fair and is untrue to think one religion is the top religion and that's what is wrong with the way some people on here think.
It's about respect and please don't go back 2000 years.
-
The problem is some people think their religion and beliefs are the only one and the right one, there are faults with every religion but if you are in that religion you don't see it.
If you're Christian you have your beliefs nobody should tell you your religion is wrong and if you're Jewish or Protestant or Baptist, etc. you have your beliefs and nobody should tell you your religion is wrong.
But it is not fair and is untrue to think one religion is the top religion and that's what is wrong with the way some people on here think.
It's about respect and please don't go back 2000 years.
If you don't believe in your own religion then there's no point in having one at all. On the other hand people should respect other people's rights to believe differently in peace.
-
^ Sometimes I think the world would be a better place if people didn't feel any obligation to respect other people's rights to practice differently in peace.
-
There are some religions in the world that are not only incorrect, but evil. For example, Islam across the board, and this particular branch of Christianity that the Edomites in the article practice. It's about good vs. evil, they are evil, and I will say right now that their religion is wrong.
You're very right Dan. In my post I was talking about more peaceful people.
-
I don't think anybody here denies that there are a lot of so-called anti-Semitic Christians, or thinks that bringing them to light is a bad thing. What was upsetting is that a couple people implied that the anti-Semites are the "real Christians".
-
I agree with DBN 100%! I'd like to add alot of religions can be used for good or evil,but G-d let's you decide. I believe if we live and follow the Torah we will be just fine. Except of course for the people of the false prophet mohammed. Who have lucifer running through their veins.
-
I don't think anybody here denies that there are a lot of so-called anti-Semitic Christians, or thinks that bringing them to light is a bad thing. What was upsetting is that a couple people implied that the anti-Semites are the "real Christians".
BF I have had talks with Muman multiple times about Christians beings my wife and kids are. And he has had nothing but encouraging words. And has never once told me to try to change their beliefs.
-
BF I have had talks with Muman multiple times about Christians beings my wife and kids are. And he has had nothing but encouraging words. And has never once told me to try to change their beliefs.
Recalling his past posts on issues like that I almost find that surprising... Anyway as I further recall he is well versed in situations like that so he may be speaking from personal experience.
-
It's sad that threads like this always have to become a sticking point here on the forum... I myself strongly dislike missionary activity that seeks to convert or exert influence on people who have a religion of their own... In my mind a missionary is a person sent by the church to educate or heal the sick in underdeveloped parts of the world... Places that have no ability to do things like that on their own... Missionaries who go into places like Israel and seek to convert secular Jews in order to build membership in their so called religion are business agents not missionaries... Lumping in animals like this in with the people who try to do some good in underdeveloped parts of the world is really not helpful... Good people of all religions viewing our forum will not understand the situation since most Christians are unaware of proselytizing missionary activity in this day and age... I think it's important to always make it very clear that it's proselytizing "Christians that need their heads dashed on the rocks" not the billions of good Christians who are very content to let the Jewish people live in peace... Exonerating the Christian members we have here on the forum alone is not going to cut it in the larger picture.
-
Hey hey! Calm down everyone. lol
For the record, there are many many types of "Christians". These idiots mentioned in the article are just anti-semites using religion as a tool to fuel a holocaust against the Jewish people. They are lower than the animals and fully support the cold blooded murder of innocent men, women, and children. I never ever EVER saw that in any Bible! If it was really about their religion, do you think they would support the terrorist muslims (not Christians) that call out for their death and do such evil things? They are sick and evil nazis, and I pray they all die from cancer.
But come on, some of the Christians (evangelicals especially) fully support the Jewish people's right to Israel and know they are Hashem's chosen people. In Israel, some of the Christians support the expulsion of the violent muslim nazis more than the Jews there do! So let's be careful who we decide to lump together and condemn. No Christian on this forum supports such evil and madness. They are here to help us save the world and deserve respect and consideration.
Let's be careful and consider their feelings. Kindness is required of us to righteous people who do what they can to save Israel.
-
They are lower than the animals and fully support the cold blooded murder of innocent men, women, and children. I never ever EVER saw that in any Bible! If it was really about their religion, do you think they would support the terrorist muslims (not Christians) that call out for their death and do such evil things? They are sick and evil nazis, and I pray they all die from cancer.
Good points Shlomo.
But come on, some of the Christians (evangelicals especially) fully support the Jewish people's right to Israel and know they are Hashem's chosen people. In Israel, some of the Christians support the expulsion of the violent muslim nazis more than the Jews there do! So let's be careful who we decide to lump together and condemn. No Christian on this forum supports such evil and madness. They are here to help us save the world and deserve respect and consideration.
Let's be careful and consider their feelings. Kindness is required of us to righteous people who do what they can to save Israel.
Great post
-
Thank you for the excellent and very true post Shlomo. Agree with you 100%.
-
Hey hey! Calm down everyone. lol
For the record, there are many many types of "Christians". These idiots mentioned in the article are just anti-semites using religion as a tool to fuel a holocaust against the Jewish people. They are lower than the animals and fully support the cold blooded murder of innocent men, women, and children. I never ever EVER saw that in any Bible! If it was really about their religion, do you think they would support the terrorist muslims (not Christians) that call out for their death and do such evil things? They are sick and evil nazis, and I pray they all die from cancer.
But come on, some of the Christians (evangelicals especially) fully support the Jewish people's right to Israel and know they are Hashem's chosen people. In Israel, some of the Christians support the expulsion of the violent muslim nazis more than the Jews there do! So let's be careful who we decide to lump together and condemn. No Christian on this forum supports such evil and madness. They are here to help us save the world and deserve respect and consideration.
Let's be careful and consider their feelings. Kindness is required of us to righteous people who do what they can to save Israel.
Great Great GTeat Post!!! :dance: :dance: :dance:
-
There's bound to be some bitter feelings between Christians and Jews when our minds are focused on the past and, I should say, on religion. On the one hand, it is very understandable that Jews should feel resentful because of the persecutions they have endured in the name of Christianity. On the other hand, honest Jews should understand that some Christians might feel upset by the numerous anti-Christian and, more generally, anti-Gentile statements in the Talmud and by the contempt felt by a number of Jews toward non-Jews.
:o :o :o
-
The problem is some people think their religion and beliefs are the only one and the right one, there are faults with every religion but if you are in that religion you don't see it.
If you're Christian you have your beliefs nobody should tell you your religion is wrong and if you're Jewish or Protestant or Baptist, etc. you have your beliefs and nobody should tell you your religion is wrong.
But it is not fair and is untrue to think one religion is the top religion and that's what is wrong with the way some people on here think.
It's about respect and please don't go back 2000 years.
The holocaust was 70-80 years ago.
-
The holocaust was 70-80 years ago.
The large Jewish Anti-Christian company my father worked for was 50-55 years ago, does that make all Jews bad?
What's your point?
-
What was this so-called anti-Christian company your father worked for, jbeige?
-
As usual, Johnson Brown talks Nazism out of his keister.
-
What was this so-called anti-Christian company your father worked for, jbeige?
I will have to ask him the name of the company but it was a box factory, they manufactured boxes and containers for a lot of companies.
How come Jewish people don't think there are anti-Christian Jewish people in the world?, just reading some things on this forum I would say there are a few right here.
I try to get along with all religions, I look at the person not the religion.
I am not going to respond any more to his thread because it's turning into a very bad subject.
-
The large Jewish Anti-Christian company my father worked for was 50-55 years ago, does that make all Jews bad?
What's your point?
My point is that you (not other members) minimize the holocaust and that is the equivalent of spitting in our face. This latest reply is yet another example. Sickening.
-
I will have to ask him the name of the company but it was a box factory, they manufactured boxes and containers for a lot of companies.
How come Jewish people don't think there are anti-Christian Jewish people in the world?, just reading some things on this forum I would say there are a few right here.
I try to get along with all religions, I look at the person not the religion.
I am not going to respond any more to his thread because it's turning into a very bad subject.
Easy for you to run away now, Johnson, now that you have launched a vicious libel against Jews and don't want a reply.
-
JB how can you compare the Holocaust to some vaguely anti-Christian company? I doubt that the company you referred to killed millions of people in horrible ways.
-
OMG, I hope this beige guy isn't serious about comparing the Holocaust to the policies of some company. And what kind of company would marginalize all of the potential customers in such a huge religion?
-
Anyone who is an anti Semite, is NOT a real "Christian" they are fake, like Hitler was. >:(
REAL and righteous Christians, will love Israel and love her people and be pro Israel and wont want to divide up the land and agree with the Torah on all of that issue.
Anything else is not right.
Anyway, my two cents.
-
Jbeige, in what way was your father's employer "anti-Christian?"
-
All you who are getting upset need to just consider the source. Jbeige is Johnson Brown, a formerly banned WN troll who has, among other things, said that Israel is behind 9/11.
-
All you who are getting upset need to just consider the source. Jbeige is Johnson Brown, a formerly banned WN troll who has, among other things, said that Israel is behind 9/11.
What was his old name: Johnson Brown?
-
All you who are getting upset need to just consider the source. Jbeige is Johnson Brown, a formerly banned WN troll who has, among other things, said that Israel is behind 9/11.
Yes..... People should always consider the source :::D I don't think the point Jbeige was making was to minimize the Holocaust... Sadly it's impossible to rewrite history the only thing we can do is to try and move forward in a positive way... I think that was the point Jbeige was trying to bring about.... As far as the Israel 9/11 thing I would like to see where you saw that since I never recalled seeing anything like that.
-
What was his old name: Johnson Brown?
Yes.
cjd: He wrote that on his own personal forum.
-
Yes..... People should always consider the source :::D I don't think the point Jbeige was making was to minimize the Holocaust... Sadly it's impossible to rewrite history the only thing we can do is to try and move forward in a positive way... I think that was the point Jbeige was trying to bring about.... As far as the Israel 9/11 thing I would like to see where you saw that since I never recalled seeing anything like that.
:o
You are still trying to defend johnson brown after all this? Its time you drop it. He was a sick mental pygmie who has intense hatred for Jews in addition to his hate of blacks and hispanics. If you were too lazy or unaware or not concerned w viewing his jew hating outbursts on his forum after he left JTF and then let his true antisemite colors burst forth (as they always seem to do once we take out the trash here, they seem to always let out what they were hiding), we do not have to "prove" to you in some kind of forensic evaluation that what we saw and report is true. Multiple people from here saw his vicious slander of not only jews but this entire movement too (that includes you, sherlock), which was displayed in the public domain. I have no idea what happened to his site since then nor do I care. Give up defending his evil because you are irritating the people who actually saw what he said (or maybe you just agree with him?)...
-
I notice that my question was never answered. Obviously nobody here is going to be against Zionist Christians, but do you feel that we are fake Christians or heretical Christians?
I believe that many of the scriptures can and are used in a whole lot of different ways. Different people can and do justify their ways using the scriptures especially the gospels and the koran. I also generally feel that people (mainly preachers of all faiths) for the most part have an idea or feeling and then use scriptures to back them up. You can come with strong support for Israel using much of scripture and the many warnings and admonition to the nations that G-D gives in the Torah (what you call the "old testement" and which is part of your belief) and perhaps from the "new testement" (which I know little about) as well) while at the same time I also believe that the haters of Israel can do things similar as well and history as well shows that to be the case especially with the church.
I can also understand (Askeansi) Jews mainly being frustrated for what their families went through throughout this long exile especially in Europe.
That being said people's beliefs are their beliefs. No one is out to "convert" Christians out of their faith and their is understanding at least from the Jewish point of view that people have deep rooted beliefs. Different sages even said that Chritianity and Islam are not idolatry for non-Jews practicing them (for Jews different discussion), not that Jews should encourage them but we can accept different beliefs. Also even pointed out that these beliefs bring the world closer to recognizing the truth (to be objective I'll state) according to Jewish belief (Torah and tradition).
Also perhaps their is misunderstanding and confusion of labelling people. Christian or not bacially the Jewish response is- whoever you are, whatever you would like to call yourself- don't mess with the Jewish people, Jewish G-D and society. If you are cool with us, were cool with you, if you try to harm Jews in any way- physical, psychological or spiritually then we have a problem.
-
In Mumans defence, I have heard Chirstians say Jews are going to hell for not believing in the messiah. Jews have suffered through all of time, they have a right to be a little defensive.
I don't mind if they say or believe that. It does not bother me in the slightest because I know that them saying or feeling this way won't change anything.
The second part is true, and also when connected to the first part of them physically doing these things is when we have a problem.
-
So, how do you feel about Zionist Christians, who consider themselves to be "the real Christians" also? Are we just naive and misguided and fake Christians because we aren't anti-Semites?
Who is a fake or real Christian you would have to decide for yourselves.
We as Jews support good actions and are taught to have hakarat hatov (gratitude) and for those who support Jews we suppot them. Yett at the same that doesn't give anyone license to do as they please. For example prosletize in any way to Jews.
As Rabbi Meir Kahane hy”d said to the Christians, “If you want to support us, support us from afar.If you come here [Israel] to missionize, we'll have to....” (Those who need to know, already know the end of the sentence. Those who want to know, can search for it.)
-
Also to the Jews here (and elsewhere)- you have to understand these 2 (different) points. 1- their are different people in different faiths. Yes we are agains't the different religions but ask yourself this when you say "christians" or any other word describing a faith or religion- had you known a person of this faith or religion (which most of you do) on a personal level, lets say at work or elsewhere (neighborhood) and you are friends would you tell them- you Christians are like this or like that? etc.
Secondly on the flipside. Their is no justification for Jews to promote any other religion or religious belief in any way. And just because their are good people who identifhy themselves as Christian who support some of the things in your interests (or at least it looks that way) does not give us permission to promote any different religion. (I had to say that because I just watched a video of this "settler" k*&$ Yesha leader who works with the government, say such kefirra) http://jewishisrael.ning.com/video/rabbi-riskin-discusses-jesus
(And remeber the "jesus- Jewish "rabbi" nonsense of boteach). It sickens me, I can't explain it. Because if one is going to believe in what they believe its one thing, but then for them to use Judaism and twist things like that, it pisses me off.
-
Please do not fight too long for or against the Christianity rights of George Habbash.
-
:o
You are still trying to defend johnson brown after all this? Its time you drop it. He was a sick mental pygmie who has intense hatred for Jews in addition to his hate of blacks and hispanics. If you were too lazy or unaware or not concerned w viewing his jew hating outbursts on his forum after he left JTF and then let his true antisemite colors burst forth (as they always seem to do once we take out the trash here, they seem to always let out what they were hiding), we do not have to "prove" to you in some kind of forensic evaluation that what we saw and report is true. Multiple people from here saw his vicious slander of not only jews but this entire movement too (that includes you, sherlock), which was displayed in the public domain. I have no idea what happened to his site since then nor do I care. Give up defending his evil because you are irritating the people who actually saw what he said (or maybe you just agree with him?)...
Who's we? I answer to one person here on this forum and the last time I checked it wasn't you... If I am irritating so be it... I never saw the outside site so you must be a better sherlock than I am " Sherlock"... Do you even know what you were looking at or who set it up... Talk about annoying... You wrote the book on annoying my friend!
-
Who's we? I answer to one person here on this forum and the last time I checked it wasn't you... If I am irritating so be it... I never saw the outside site so you must be a better sherlock than I am " Sherlock"... Do you even know what you were looking at or who set it up... Talk about annoying... You wrote the book on annoying my friend!
Oh isn't that interesting. For somebody who claims you only care about chaim and don't "answer to" anyone else here, you sure talk a big game about what a team player you are and you get awfully bothered by some of mumans posts and what it does to the unity of the forum. I guess all that junk you gave to muman over the years was mere talk because you don't care about anyone else here but yourself and chaim (and maybe your close friend johnson brown).
And once again you cast doubt on NUMEROUS PEOPLE HERE WHO ALL SAW THE SAME THING AND ALL CORROBORATE EACH OTHER by trying to defend your slimeball nazi friend johnson brown and try to weasle him out of what he did by claiming we were mistaken about what we saw. Rather than just accepting the truth. What a friekin joke! Just get over it your mental pygmie friend is a jew hating nazi in addition to his hatred of blacks latinos and all other nonwhite races. Time to look in a mirror.
-
Oh isn't that interesting. For somebody who claims you only care about chaim and don't "answer to" anyone else here, you sure talk a big game about what a team player you are and you get awfully bothered by some of mumans posts and what it does to the unity of the forum. I guess all that junk you gave to muman over the years was mere talk because you don't care about anyone else here but yourself and chaim (and maybe your close friend johnson brown).
And once again you cast doubt on NUMEROUS PEOPLE HERE WHO ALL SAW THE SAME THING AND ALL CORROBORATE EACH OTHER by trying to defend your slimeball nazi friend johnson brown and try to weasle him out of what he did by claiming we were mistaken about what we saw. Rather than just accepting the truth. What a friekin joke! Just get over it your mental pygmie friend is a jew hating nazi in addition to his hatred of blacks latinos and all other nonwhite races. Time to look in a mirror.
Kahane and CJD, you are two of my favorite people on this forum and you both have so much more in common than this present discussion would lead people to think. KWBRT, respectfully, I think you're being very unduly harsh with CJD. he has never supported any nazis on this site. I dont know who this Johnson Brown is, but I know that CJD would be the last person in the world to defend nazis.
-
I don't think cjd would willfully defend any Nazi either but I don't think he knows what Johnson Brown is really all about.