JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ~Hanna~ on September 12, 2012, 06:42:13 PM
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:dance:
Shalom, I hope you are all doing well...I saw this on Facebook and just knew I needed to share it with you all here....
I hope you are all doing well.
I am attaching a picture that I took recently...
Blessings to you all!!!
:-*
:usa+israel: :usa+israel:
http://www.birthrightisrael.com/Pages/Default.aspx
About.
Taglit-Birthright Israel offers the gift of a free, 10-day educational trip to Israel for Jewish adults between the ages of 18 to 26. www.birthrightisrael.com
Mission
To provide the gift of first-time, educational trips to Israel for Jewish young adults. We seek to become the leading organization transforming the Israel experience into an integral part of the lives of young Jews worldwide and to strengthen the relationship between Israel and Jewish communities worldwide.
Company Overview
Since its inception in 2000, Taglit-Birthright Israel has sent nearly 300,000 Jewish young adults to Israel. They come from 59 countries, all 50 U.S. states and Canadian provinces, and from nearly 1,000 North American colleges and universities.
The trip aims to strengthen participants’ Jewish identity; to build an understanding, friendship and lasting bond with the land and people of Israel; and to reinforce the solidarity of the Jewish people worldwide.
Description
Taglit-Birthright Israel is a partnership between the Government of Israel, Jewish communities around the world (through the Jewish Federations of North America, the Jewish Agency for Israel and Keren Hayesod) and some 25,000 individual supporters in North America and around the world.
General Information
This is the only official Taglit-Birthright Israel, Birthright Israel Foundation & NEXT, a Division of Birthright Israel Foundation Facebook Page. Become a fan if you are thinking of going on one of our free 10-day trips to Israel, if you've already gone and want to share your experiences with others, or if you want to show your support and get updates from us!
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These trips are AWESOME.
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Don't these "free" Israel trips brainwash Jewish youths into leftism?
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Don't these "free" Israel trips brainwash Jewish youths into leftism?
How so? They instill in Jewish youth the importance of the Jewish state. At least this is what they claim.
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How so? They instill in Jewish youth the importance of the Jewish state. At least this is what they claim.
Oh no they do. The group leader said Islam is a beautiful religion, the "second in command" that came with us said that the muslims treat their women better than the Jews, we spent two hours at the site where Rabin was shot, and I seemed to be only one celebrating, and people got offended when I tried to take re-enactment pictures (I really didn't listen to a word the guide said beyond "some people on the left" (and she made it clear that she was a leftist, and that on this day she was very depressed) believe that his death ended the chance for "peace"). She even made a skewered Kahane reference when she said "thankfully, we have a democracy instead of some kind of Jewish dictator", which is what the left saw Kahane as, because he wouldn't conform to their democracy of the minority.
I literally had to selective amnesia myself after every day, and of course, all the soldiers they brought on the trips were atheists who called the expulsions "withdrawals" and said "those people were just being crazy and fighting against the army when we were just trying to get them out of a war-zone". We also got the whole schpeal about how great Israel was for allowing muslims and Christians unlimited access to sites that aren't even that holy for them, while forbidding Jews the same privileges for their most holy sites.
So yeah, as leftist as it gets, I didn't even bother talking to the leaders after these statements, and most of the bus believed that crap before hand. Hell there were gay Jews in the tour taking freaking showers together, but there was two people in the entire trip that weren't insane, so I just talked to them and let everyone else [censored] off. I don't care if it was the muslim god that had sponsored my trip to Israel, I was so happy to be there, I planted a tree (well I did two because I worked fast) and I got to meet my family for the first time after, some of whom turned out to be supporters of Kahanist policy, which was great.
I recommend this trip for every Jew living in the cursed exile, but, forget grains of salt, DO NOT LISTEN TO A WORD THE TOUR GUIDE SAYS. I did, but I generally knew what's what, all thanks to this site, but even their facts will be twisted to support the leftist policy destroying the country, I mean, the tour guide talked about how great it was that Israel did and how great it would be if they gave up more land EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE TEN DAYS, with only some reservations about the Golan for strategic purposes, although the beauty I saw there sickened me that someone would actually want to give that to arabs, whose land is barren and desolate, and just a couple miles away from there. The liberals for all their "environment crap" couldn't give an actual hoot about nature.
It pretty easy to tune the guide out with sleep deprivation if you say up all night drinking, but many of the Israeli speakers were phenomenal, like the guy at the independance hall that gave a fantastic speech about how Jews refuse to be pushed into the sea because they are not good swimmers (more of a joke) and then said that Israel was a Jewish state, which caused the guide to turn bright red, because she has spent the last week saying it was an Israeli state.
I almost got into a fight with Russians there though, and if I had not been seriously injured at the time, I would have been much more aggressive, and that could have turned out badly, so stay away from the Russians, but besides that, Israel rocks, and ten tour guides led by the scum Finklestein couldn't have hurt that experience for me.
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If that is the case I would avoid it like the plague...
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Don't these "free" Israel trips brainwash Jewish youths into leftism?
I guess it depends on which trip one goes on and the guide etc. I remember our group chanting anti-Arab things a number of times. On the other hand i was disappointed (but not surprised) that the tour guide described Yigal Amir and his act as stupid. At least he did not call it evil or anything like that, but still. I don't think he would have his job if he said anything else though.
Also I was disappointed as well on some Mamlachti things that were said and promoted, but overall their was a lot of positive things as well like saying that Jews had and have connection to the land even describing history from generation earlier as well. etc.
Also even going to a Kibbutz the person in the kibbutz was not a radical leftist and said that their is no one to make peace with. I think he got offended when I asked about the Arab in Israel taking over the country when he described the positions of both leftists and "rightist"
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I went on the trip. It is a good thing. Some people decide to stay! Chaim has said that Jews moving to Israel is very important. The true goal of the trip is to get Jews to move there, and a few actually do. I wish I paid closer attention than I did to some of the historic places they took us to.
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So it is up to luck? That is not very good...
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I did not want to cause any war here, just sharing, i suppose it would be up to each individual as to what they should do.
;D
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Aw cmon Muman you'll get more leftism in 10-15 minutes on the radio, or walking down the darn street in half the big cities in America. Certainly more anti-semites, Jewish and goyim. If lefties are paying for people to get to Israel, loonies or otherwise, they'll still be blessed for it. Besides, there were plenty of great speakers we met along the way, such as our guide in Yad Vashem.
The logic on attending this trip is similar to this: if you were in a country with only one synagogue, and it was reform, would you attend?
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So it is up to luck? That is not very good...
I don't think entirely. Their are many different groups one should choose the more conservative ( not the movement, but in Torah wise) and not the more liberal groups. I asked around before and some of the groups are not good nor recommended especially with the mixing of the sexes and sometimes inappropriate behavior with sometimes people who know close to nothing about Judaism. Their are also only men and only women groups (which I did not attend) but also more of "Modern-Orthodox" as well where their is minyan etc. but mixed. Soo one should find the appropriate group to go to, instead of ones that are more interested in partying.
And I don't think its leftist funded. I heard 1/3 from government, but other people and groups as well including I believe those who want to and do promote Aliyah.
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Aw cmon Muman you'll get more leftism in 10-15 minutes on the radio, or walking down the darn street in half the big cities in America. Certainly more anti-semites, Jewish and goyim. If lefties are paying for people to get to Israel, loonies or otherwise, they'll still be blessed for it. Besides, there were plenty of great speakers we met along the way, such as our guide in Yad Vashem.
The logic on attending this trip is similar to this: if you were in a country with only one synagogue, and it was reform, would you attend?
The logic on attending this trip is similar to this: if you were in a country with only one synagogue, and it was reform, would you attend?
The short answer... no I would not attend. Reform Judaism is not Jewish and if a Jew accepts what he/she learns from their "rabbis" they may just be scarred for life. It is better to daven alone than with a minyan of heretics.
Rabbi Yossi ben (son of) Kisma said: One time I was walking along the way and a certain man met me. He greeted me and I returned the greeting. He said to me: 'Rabbi, where are you from?' I responded: 'I am from a large city of scholars and scribes.' He said to me: 'Rabbi, would you be willing to dwell among us in our place, and I will give you hundreds of thousands of gold coins, precious stones and pearls?' I said to him: 'Even if you would give me all the silver, gold, precious stones, and pearls in the world, I would not dwell anywhere other than a place of Torah.' So too it was written in the Book of Psalms by David, King of Israel: 'The Torah of Your mouth is better to me than thousands of gold and silver [coins]' (119:72). And further, when a person departs this world neither his silver, gold, precious stones, nor pearls accompany him, but only his Torah study and good deeds, as it is written: 'When you walk it will guide you, when you lie down it will protect you, and when you arise it will speak for you' (Proverbs 6:22). 'When you walk it will guide you' -- in this world; 'when you lie down it will protect you' -- in the grave; 'and when you arise it will speak for you' -- in the World to Come. And it says: 'To Me is silver and gold says the L-rd of hosts' (Haggai 2:8)."
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I consider them 'bad neighbors'...
http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-7.html?print=1
Pirkie Avot : Chapter 1, Mishna 7
"Nittai of Arbel said, distance yourself from a bad neighbor, do not befriend a wicked person, and do not despair of punishment."
The theme of our mishna this week is that we beware close association with wicked people, those who may exert a negative influence on ourselves or our families.
R. Samson Raphael Hirsch notes a discrepancy in the language of the mishna. Regarding bad neighbors we are told to distance ourselves, while regarding the wicked we are told only not to befriend them. The reason for this difference is that it is possible to choose one's neighbors -- by selecting a neighborhood in which to live. Regarding the wicked, however, it is impossible to entirely avoid contact with them -- in business (especially) or on the street. Thus, we may have to interact with them on some level, but we must take care not to closely befriend them.
Our mishna concludes that we not lose faith that G-d ultimately punishes. This continues the same theme. Do not be fooled that the wicked have all the money. Do not be tempted to run after them or imitate their ways. Divine retribution will certainly come -- and the associates of the wicked may well be caught in the very same web (or at least be forced to testify). G-d may very well be "blessing" the wicked in this world because He has given up, so to speak, on prodding them to repent, or because He is paying off their few good deeds in this world. Regardless, we must never be lulled into a sense that there is something lasting or meaningful to be gained from association with the wicked. Their time will come -- whether in this world or the next -- and we'd be much better off not being around when it does.
Throughout our history, Jews have always placed a great deal of emphasis on community -- that we stick together and distance themselves to whatever degree possible from negative influences. Throughout the Exile, Jews have generally formed their own neighborhoods, schools, and where possible judicial systems. The term "ghetto" is perhaps too strong a pejorative -- and Pales and ghettos were usually imposed from without -- but throughout much of our history we have certainly made ourselves a nation apart. Likewise, our host nations have almost invariably seen us as a foreign entity living in their midst. Whether they viewed us as an antisocial and disloyal fifth column or a hard-working and contributive minority, we have rarely been seen as truly a part of the nation as a whole.
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But what Tag says sounds reasonable. It is possible to make Aliyah with this agency as long as you are able to choose who you go with... If a group of like-minded Jews were to go then I don't see any problem with it...
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I understand. For me, it was better to go to Israel with leftists than stay home.
And the trips are funded 1/3 by Israel now, 1/3 by Charles Bronfman and the guy that owns the hotels in Vegas, and they may be leftists, but the Bronfmans have done so much for my family, I am eternally in their debt and wouldn't dare speak against them in any way, and they certainly are going to be blessed for the incredible great deeds they do despite their lefty ideology. The other 1/3 is local Jewish communities that fund this.
There were religious tours, but I honestly hate dress clothes, have no idea what they have to do with Judaism, and am incapable of wearing that much in a hot climate. I pulled it off one day for shabbat, but it gets hot. I would have done the religious tour if not for the dress clothes.
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LKZ! The clothes? Are you freaking kidding me?
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LKZ! The clothes? Are you freaking kidding me?
I'm picky. I like to express my Judaism in shorts and tee-shirt, or jeans and tee-shirt. I can make tzitzit in my t-shirt, and act like its a ripped jeans style.
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I'm picky. I like to express my Judaism in shorts and tee-shirt, or jeans and tee-shirt. I can make tzitzit in my t-shirt, and act like its a ripped jeans style.
Your tzit-tzits would not be kosher if you did this.... Remember that Tzit-tzits MUST BE attached to a four-corner garment, and a T-shirt is not a 4-corner garment...
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/536771/jewish/The-Fringes-and-Garment.htm
The Garment
* Only a garment which covers most of the body requires tzitzit. A scarf, for example, is therefore exempt.
* Any garment which has four or more corners is obligated in tzitzit. If the garment has more than four corners, tzitzit fringes are only attached to the four corners furthest from each other.
* Only a garment which has two corners in the front of its wearer and two in the back must have tzitzit.
* A rounded edge is not considered as a corner.
* A garment only requires tzitzit if and when it is actually worn.
* Only a four-cornered garment which is of a woven material is obligated in tzitzit. A four-cornered plastic or leather garment does not require tzitzit.
* The noted 13th century halachic authority Rabbi Meir of Rothenberg contended that one does not satisfy the biblical obligation of tzitzit unless the garment and fringes are of the same material. Since all manufactured tzitzit fringes are made of wool, according to Rabbi Meir, one would not fulfill any mitzvah when wearing a cotton or silk tallit or tzitzit garment. Though Rabbi Meir's is a minority ruling and not binding, ideally one should strive to recite the blessing on a woolen tallit or tzitzit.
* The tallit or tzitzit garment must be at least 19x19 inches. A child's tzitzit can be smaller.
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Your tzit-tzits would not be kosher if you did this.... Remember that Tzit-tzits MUST BE attached to a four-corner garment, and a T-shirt is not a 4-corner garment...
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/536771/jewish/The-Fringes-and-Garment.htm
****. If I iron it and make creases? Dress shirts don't exactly have 4 corners either, the back is a rounded edge... so are Jews like, not supposed to wear tee-shirts? Is tzitzit required at all times?
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****. If I iron it and make creases? Dress shirts don't exactly have 4 corners either, the back is a rounded edge... so are Jews like, not supposed to wear tee-shirts? Is tzitzit required at all times?
No, it is required if you are wearing a four corner garment. Religious Jews will purposefully wear a four-corner garment in order to fulfill this commandment... You can get a Tallit Katan at any Judaica store.
(http://www.thegalileeexperience.com/store/images/uploads/YTK002/YTK002.jpg) (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Kosher-Israel-Tallit-Katan-Tzitzit-52x112cm-21-x44-/02/!CEZZwnQ!2k~$(KGrHqMOKpQE0U4gMq2tBNRwKy2(z!~~_35.JPG)
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No, it is required if you are wearing a four corner garment. Religious Jews will purposefully wear a four-corner garment in order to fulfill this commandment... You can get a Tallit Katan at any Judaica store.
(http://www.thegalileeexperience.com/store/images/uploads/YTK002/YTK002.jpg) (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Kosher-Israel-Tallit-Katan-Tzitzit-52x112cm-21-x44-/02/!CEZZwnQ!2k~$(KGrHqMOKpQE0U4gMq2tBNRwKy2(z!~~_35.JPG)
OK cool thanks.
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There were religious tours, but I honestly hate dress clothes, have no idea what they have to do with Judaism, and am incapable of wearing that much in a hot climate.
I wore jeans, sweat pants, a kippa the whole time and a suit for Shabbous (although no one else did).
It was technically "Modern-Orthodox". Mixed M and F, but we (at least I) behaved. Their were people with Kippot, some without as well. Prayers (voluntary 3 times daily) trips mandatory, also discussions including politics. Although I was the most "far right" I still spoke and didn't have a problem saying what needed to be said. No one (at least here) needs to be worried about being alienated or anything like that, just have the facts and speak the truth you might even get some fans and people who will agree with you.
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If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.
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:clap: Mo, you are a great Jew!
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If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.
Very hard to find drugs in Israel.
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:clap: Mo, you are a great Jew!
:o :o :o :o :o
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Very hard to find drugs in Israel.
Hash is pretty easy to find. Palestine has more of that stuff ;)
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:o :o :o :o :o
For calling it for what it is!
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Very hard to find Palestine in Israel.
Follow your nose.
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Follow your nose.
:::D
Jerusalem is simultaneously the most inspiring and most depressing sight in the world, when looking at it by the east. If that weird little mosque didn't have a gold roof on it, it would just be the greatest eye-sore in architectural history. Instead, it allows Arabs to make their side of Jerusalem just dirt and shrubs, except for the outcropping where everything a village needs is huddled in one disorganized plot.
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So did we agree on whether these trips are a good or a bad thing?
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So did we agree on whether these trips are a good or a bad thing?
Like I said their are many different types of groups and trips. Obviously one should not go to a group which is more of a "party group" in fact they advertise themselves as that in order to get more people to sign up with them. One should choose one of the more traditionalist- Orthodox groups.
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So did we agree on whether these trips are a good or a bad thing?
I vote they ****ing rock. They involve being in Israel.
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I don't understand why they only allow such young adults to go on their trips since the whole point is the first time trip to Israel and many older people haven't had a first time trip either.
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I don't understand why they only allow such young adults to go on their trips since the whole point is the first time trip to Israel and many older people haven't had a first time trip either.
To decline Noam and finklestein.
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I don't understand why they only allow such young adults to go on their trips since the whole point is the first time trip to Israel and many older people haven't had a first time trip either.
Perhaps $ and affordability (limited space available, and that is on every year as well). Older adults can more easily pay for themselves. People in that range usually cant. Also younger people are more open and able to go out and change the world etc. Perhaps and other reasons.
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Perhaps $ and affordability (limited space available, and that is on every year as well). Older adults can more easily pay for themselves. People in that range usually cant. Also younger people are more open and able to go out and change the world etc. Perhaps and other reasons.
That makes sense.
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I have to agree with Rubystars on this one. It still smacks of elitism to me, especially in this economy where a lot of older, more established people have lost everything through no fault of their own. Maybe some of these middle-aged Jews might find a fulfilling new life through aliyah if they were introduced to Israel in a birthright trip. All in all it doesn't seem to me like these trips are a good thing, especially in light of what Chaim has said about the Bronfmans. Obviously if even a couple young Jews become motivated to care about their homeland and fight to make it better through them, though, they have made the world a better place. But by and large, especially when one factors in the partying/debauchery, I am skeptical.
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All Jews should flee America, ASAP if Hussein gets in again.
I am trying to talk David into getting out of this mess. I see rockets all over America. At least Israel is prepared.
True, there is no real freedom, but at least we can have guns and live in semi peace.
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I would like to say here I am/was not advocating that in any way/shape or form... >:(
I did not delve deeply into the politics of it, just thought if someone really wanted to go to Israel, this would be a way to do it (Baalam and the donkey. remember?) Sometimes we can use bad things to make good things out of them...well, it's biblical anyway....
Well G-d does that.
If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.
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As important at is it to go there, it is worse to commit a sin in Israel than it is in chutz la'aretz. For the kids who go to have drunken orgies, it's terrible. For the ones who simply do the touring, it is great.
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I know you are not advocating that Hanna but this was something that JTFers should be warned about if they don't go on frum trips.
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Quote from: The One and Only Mo on September 13, 2012, 10:59:08 PM
If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.
These are technically not allowed on all trips. One can (and some people in the past did) get kicked out, sent home, where one had to pay for the plan ticket and other such things.
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Quote from: The One and Only Mo on September 13, 2012, 10:59:08 PM
If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.
These are technically not allowed on all trips. One can (and some people in the past did) get kicked out, sent home, where one had to pay for the plan ticket and other such things.
Yes, I'm sure that they all follow the rules in private. I know plenty of people who "followed the rules" :::D :::D :::D :::D
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Yes, I'm sure that they all follow the rules in private. I know plenty of people who "followed the rules" :::D :::D :::D :::D
Well are you going to blame the trip for the actions of some people you know?
It is like blaming America for someone taking hard drugs at their own home and you blaming the whole country for the actions of individuals.
Come on.
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Loosely enforced rules. If they said anything to the gay guys they would appear intolerant.
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Loosely enforced rules. If they said anything to the gay guys they would appear intolerant.
Again how is someone supposed to control someone being gay or not? Especially signing up for a 10 day trip?
Guys don't get me wrong, If I had $, I would not spend it on them and these trips, because the $ could definitely be spend much better and much more efficiently (I think it comes out to ~ $15,000 a person). Rather give such $ to Hayamin and promotion of Torah as well, BUT if you have the opportunity to go to Israel for free, not only that but to extend your trip as well with a free plane ticket there and back I say why not take advantage of what is available for you? And those people who go to party in Israel, well that is what they do anywhere. No one can stop someone else from partying if they soo want to. But if you yourself are a serious person, I don't see why you should not go (especially with a religious group) and enjoy Israel and even to just be there which itself is a Mitzwah. No one forces you to step into a club or take drugs (like someone suggested supposedly happens on these trips).
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Again how is someone supposed to control someone being gay or not? Especially signing up for a 10 day trip?
Guys don't get me wrong, If I had $, I would not spend it on them and these trips, because the $ could definitely be spend much better and much more efficiently (I think it comes out to ~ $15,000 a person). Rather give such $ to Hayamin and promotion of Torah as well, BUT if you have the opportunity to go to Israel for free, not only that but to extend your trip as well with a free plane ticket there and back I say why not take advantage of what is available for you? And those people who go to party in Israel, well that is what they do anywhere. No one can stop someone else from partying if they soo want to. But if you yourself are a serious person, I don't see why you should not go (especially with a religious group) and enjoy Israel and even to just be there which itself is a Mitzwah. No one forces you to step into a club or take drugs (like someone suggested supposedly happens on these trips).
They can be gay. I won't like it or do anything about it. It's when they take showers together that the rules ought to matter. As for drugs, everyone whines about their childhood and friends, but their reaction to even negative events is still their choice, but they do it to hide the fact that their taking drugs was, and continues to be a choice. You know what forget drugs and normal sex, G-d never had to turn to meteors for those. When you take a shower with another man while half the group is in your room, and then spend the next day complaining about the dead sea hurting your filthy butt to everyone, the minimum you've merited is a good, hearty shut the - up. Half the people hated me for opposing gay "marriage" and street demonstrations, but its a big funny joke when they go around saying "bathe in my homosexuality". If we weren't in Israel and apparently I'm not allowed to hurt fellow Jews there, I'd leave his teeth bathing in his stomach. Not that I'm violent, but when people trumpet their evil for attention, I like to educate on what that bad attention earns you. Like a teacher, or Sensei, a Japanese word meaning "student that came before"; as kids many used foolishness (hopefully nothing worse) for attention, and if it isn't "driven from you", it can evolve into adult problems like that, but with learning, better late than never.
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If you go on the non-frum trip, it's a 10 day party filled with drinking, drugs, and sex.
i just would like it to be known that i was not promotiing any of this behavior, in any way, shape or form. it was from pure motives...