JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: The One and Only Mo on October 15, 2012, 03:33:36 PM
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http://www.latenightinthemidlands.com/video/nypd-officer-brutally-assaults-man-in-synagogue?xg_source=activity
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My friend put it perfectly: "If only he were black so Al Dumton, Obungle, and Jesse Jackshit could lead the riots."
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Saw this on Arutz Sheva last night. I commented that only blacks have human rights in our country, if you are a Jew, forget about human rights in America. Cops can beat us, arabs can spit on us, and nobody lifts a finger. The time is coming for the rise of new Jewish Defense Leagues which will demand an end to the disgraceful treatment of Jews.
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Saw this on Arutz Sheva last night. I commented that only blacks have human rights in our country, if you are a Jew, forget about human rights in America. Cops can beat us, arabs can spit on us, and nobody lifts a finger. The time is coming for the rise of new Jewish Defense Leagues which will demand an end to the disgraceful treatment of Jews.
I think part of the problem is that Jews do have a reputation for being harmless because they generally are harmless people. They work in all kinds of social causes to show compassion for others too. Unfortunately some evil cultures like those of blacks and those of Muslims, see compassion or kindness or mild behavior as weakness. So I do think it would be a good idea for some of the young men to patrol their neighborhoods and give their communities a tougher reputation. Peace through strength.
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What they did to this guy is truly sick. Sure he resisted arrest at first, but the proper protocol is not to respond to that by starting a boxing match and then repeatedly beating and whipping the person when he is restrained. This looks viciously criminal.
All that said, if the guy was a trespasser, then we don't really know if he's a chabadnik or even Jewish or maybe just some guy off the street who decided he would sleep there. Again, what they did is wrong. Just saying we don't really know who the victim was.
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What they did to this guy is truly sick. Sure he resisted arrest at first, but the proper protocol is not to respond to that by starting a boxing match and then repeatedly beating and whipping the person when he is restrained. This looks viciously criminal.
All that said, if the guy was a trespasser, then we don't really know if he's a chabadnik or even Jewish or maybe just some guy off the street who decided he would sleep there. Again, what they did is wrong. Just saying we don't really know who the victim was.
The story on A7 indicated that he had the permission of the Jewish Center to stay there...
http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news-blog/2012/oct/15/2-nypd-officers-investigated-assaulting-man-community-center/
Halevy had permission to sleep inside the center, but a center volunteer called the police. Rabbi Moishe Feiglin, who runs the youth center, told The Times that it was unclear what had prompted the volunteer to call the police, and that Halevy had been sleeping in the lounge for about a month. The criminal complaint against Halevy shows he was charged on several counts, including assault, resisting arrest and criminal trespass.
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http://youtu.be/v7bxmXMTkwo
Also notice the numerous anti-Jewish comments below the video (when you click on it and get to zoo tube).
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http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,64577.0.html
http://youtu.be/v7bxmXMTkwo
Also notice the numerous anti-Jewish comments below the video (when you click on it and get to zoo tube).
does that surprise you?
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One commentor stated he was charged with assaulting a police officer. If a cop just randomly tries to put cuffs on you in the USA, you have to comply?
If that's true... guess we'll need an ADL to free Americans to Canada from the USSA
Baruch Hashem, I will relate a story from my youth.... Back in my crazy 20s I used to get into trouble for various things. One time I was busted by cops while doing drugs in my car. The cops tried to put the cuffs on me but I turned around before he could do it, the cop got all upset and grabbed his baton but did not hit me, he just said "Don't make me hit you" and I stopped. He said he could have charged me with resisting, but thank goodness that was not the case.
I believe that you should listen to the cop if you don't want to get hit or shot...
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The story on A7 indicated that he had the permission of the Jewish Center to stay there...
So then why did the police come in? Someone called the police, right?
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Resisting arrest? What was the initial charge?
We can't hear what they are saying, but they are definitely attempting to put handcuffs on him and he whips his hands away. It's pretty clear he's resisting arrest. Still doesn't justify what they did to him.
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Just a question--is this a real synagogue or a Deform bath house?
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Just a question--is this a real synagogue or a Deform bath house?
It was a Jewish community center. It should not make a difference... If the cop thought he was beating a Jew then it would make absolutely no difference what the Jew was, especially since he was in the community center with the Rabbis permission. Of course we must wait for the evidence to come out, as KWRBT pointed out it is not clear why the police were called.
I don't know why the original story said 'synagogue' but it is a JCC type of place where Jews of all walks of life go. The A7 story speculated he may be an Israeli {but again we must wait for more news}.
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Here is the original article I read from A7:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/160901#.UH0AGiGRyiI
NYC Police Pummel Young Jewish Man
The man, identified as Ehud Halevi, was sleeping at the ALIYA Center in Crown Heights.
Gil Ronen
Security camera footage at the ALIYA Center in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, shows police inexplicably pummeling a young Jewish man who had been sleeping at the center, which is a synagogue and outreach center for troubled youth.
According to the CrownHeights.info website, on Monday evening, October 8, police were called about a man who was sleeping in the lounge of the ALIYA Center. "The caller may have mistakenly believed that the homeless man, Ehud H. Halevi, was loitering on the center’s property without permission," the website notes.
Apparently basing their report on off-the-record conversations with unnamed sources, CrownHeights.info said that two officers from the 71st precinct arrived and woke the man. "Confused as to why he was being accosted by police, the man refused the officers’ attempts to escort him outside, insisting that he had permission to be there and asking that they allow him to prove it."
The young man can be seen passively resisting arrest, by holding his hands behind his back to avoid being handcuffed.
The male police officer then assumed a boxing stance and began pummeling his victim.
"Over the next couple of minutes the man is also pepper-sprayed and beaten with a truncheon by the female officer, all while posing no threat to the officers’ well-being whatsoever," writes the website.
A source confirmed to CrownHeights.info that the man had full permission to be at the ALIYA center, and that had been living there for a month without any trouble. It is unknown who called the police or why.
The man is reportedly being charged with assault on a police officer – a felony – which can bring a sentence of 5 years in prison upon conviction. He is also facing four misdemeanor charges and four violations, including trespassing, resisting arrest and harassment. He has been released on bail.
CrownHeights.info added that ALIYA "declined to comment on the matter in any official capacity."
Judging by his name, the young man is probably Israeli, or Israeli-born.
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No of course it makes no difference to the beating victim but what kind of a "Jewish community center" calls the cops on a man that it told is allowed to sleep there? This is the worst kind of backstabbing I have ever seen. Y-S to this JCC.
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I can guarantee you i have handcuffed 5x as many guys then this cop did and this guy is a small skinny person.When you handcuff someone you don't get into a boxing stance you can use his shoulder and wrist to get him to comply.
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Just a question--is this a real synagogue or a Deform bath house?
Crown Heights, soo almost definitely Chabad.
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What I'm about to say may shock all of you because as you know, I'm a big defender of Jews.
When I saw this video and what transpired, my initial reaction was that the one arrested had it coming to him. I did not judge the "criminal" based on his background or anything. What I saw in the video was a cop arresting him and then the arrestee wanting to start a fight and the cop responding by basically saying, "oh you want to fight me? Let me show you what that would be like." And in any situation if that actually happened, I tend to side with the cop.
So what really happened? I'm not sure. All I have heard in the news is that this homeless person who could be Jewish was allegedly invited into this Jewish center (which is orthodox). It's conflicting to understand why the cops came to begin with if this homeless man was invited to stay. If he was invited to stay then why were cops called in? Perhaps there was a misunderstanding by someone who saw this shirtless stranger and they got scared.
why was the homeless man resisting arrest? Was he on drugs? Was he pleading that he was innocent and the cops weren't listening to his plea and telling him to shut up? Was the homeless man a threat to the cops at the time of arrest? All of these things need to be answered.
So based on the previous paragraph on all of those questions, I have two points. The victim is innocent until proven guilty from an American point of view. From a Jewish point of view, because the victim might be Jewish and reaching out to an orthodox organization to house, he is innocent until proven guilty. From another point of view..because he is homeless and could be as evil as many other homeless people..his victim could be seen as guilty until proven innocent. That's 2-1 in favor of the victim and perhaps my reaction should be more of outrage for the victim and against the cop.
I don't think this incident was a hate crime, but more needs to be seen. If anyone can clarify to me what really happened, let me know. Who is this homeless Jew and why is he homeless and was he under any influence of drugs or alcohol? Why did it appear in the video that he was resisting arrest and about to start a fight with the cop? Why would any sane individual try to fight a police officer or resist him?
When we see blacks resist, don't we see the same thing? Even when they should have nothing to hide, we see this. We don't side with blacks when this happens. So why do we side with this homeless person if he was doing the same of resisting arrest? Because he's our brother Jew we should side with him? Yes, we should side with him...but on the urging to tell the victim not to be an idiot to resist arrest against someone who can brutalize him even if he is wrong for doing it. It's not like this homeless Jew is protecting Judea and Samaria.
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Let's also assume that the victim was trespassing. Was he told to leave before he was arrested? I think so, by watching the video. And when someone resists leaving, the police have a right to arrest you and put you in handcuffs.
And the victim to resist arrest and appeared to be a little violent...not the kind where they pull out their wallet and pretending it's gun type of resist...was it a sufficient outburst that put the police in danger? I don't think so. So was the reaction appropriate to be punched? Probably not.
But again, from watching this video without sound, I feel that the police were only doing their job..however, they were a bit too brutal. I think the punching and beating was a bit too much and the police should be reprimanded on that behavior as excessive.
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I see your point Dan but what the heck is the purpose of a Jewish community center if not to offer support and assistance to troubled Jews? It doesn't matter if he was a bum or a crackhead or whatever. This poor guy thought he had a safe place to stay, but he didn't. This JCC should at absolute bare minimum have its operating license revoked.
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I see your point Dan but what the heck is the purpose of a Jewish community center if not to offer support and assistance to troubled Jews? It doesn't matter if he was a bum or a crackhead or whatever. This poor guy thought he had a safe place to stay, but he didn't. This JCC should at absolute bare minimum have its operating license revoked.
Yes, it should people. I'm not faulting helping the homeless. The question is was he trespassing? Imo, yes. Is rabbi feiglan lying. Imo, yes. I would have lied too that he was invited to be merciful to the kind. The guy who called the cops was probably freaked out when saw the shirtless bum. I would have been also. And if I was homeless, Gd forbid, and cold, I would have been upset that the cops were telling me to leave. I just would have not resisted arrest and looked for another shelter for that night.
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If I were a juror trying the bum, he would be guilty of trespass and avoiding arrest.
If I were a juror for police brutality, I would say yes guilty to the cop
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The obvious answer is that the guy who called the cops was not aware that this fellow had permission to stay there. It sounds like misunderstanding and miscommunication all around. Mix in confused homeless guy, impatient cop and you have this mess.
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The obvious answer is that the guy who called the cops was not aware that this fellow had permission to stay there. It sounds like misunderstanding and miscommunication all around. Mix in confused homeless guy, impatient cop and you have this mess.
This is what the homeless guys lawyer needs to prove. And I would be on the homeless guy's side in proving this and also to defend his civil rights afterwards since I feel there was brutality when it wasn't called for in this situation. Despite that, conventional wisdom is to advise not to resist arrest or put oneself in danger with any cop that could tick him off even when you're right and he's wrong
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You know Dr. Dan read your posts here on this topic, you contradict yourself soo blatantly throughout your responses here.
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Crown Heights, soo almost definitely Chabad.
That's what I was thinking. But maybe it was some ordinary citizen who called the police.
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You know Dr. Dan read your posts here on this topic, you contradict yourself soo blatantly throughout your responses here.
You know what? I did from my original post...sort of. I do stand by that he was trespassing and resisting arrest. The cop did not behave appropriately either. I would have lied about inviting the homeless guy to protect him. And my advice to the homeless guy is to not mess with cops. You don't know who you are ticking off.
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If I were a juror trying the bum, he would be guilty of trespass and avoiding arrest.
If I were a juror for police brutality, I would say yes guilty to the cop
How is the kid guilty of tresspassing when that Moishe Feiglin guy invited him to stay at the JCC? That Trappler Zalmann dude needs to seriously get the pants sued off of him which I am quite sure will happen. That being said even if the kid wasn't invited to sleep there (which he was) how the heck is his sleeping on a couch in the lobby threatening to everybody? As has already been stated, that's the JCC's job.
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That's not a JCC. JCC is the newer name of the YMHA (Young Men's Hebrew Association). JCC's are UJA/Federation type places.
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What is Aliya?
http://www.aliyainstitute.com/templates/articlecco_cdo/aid/622823/jewish/About-Us.htm
Established in 2003 , A.L.I.Y.A. (Alternative Learning Institute for Young Adults) has been committed to serving spiritual, physical, educational, emotional and vocational needs of young adults in the Crown Heights community.
The organization’s beginning can be traced to a number of activities which grew into what is now A.L.I.Y.A. Specifically geared towards young adults who are no longer in Yeshiva, its origins are linked to a specialized school created in the Brooklyn Heights community (at the Congregation B’nei Avraham, Rabbi A. Raskin) which consisted of half the day devoted to personalized Torah learning and the other half focusing on English and Math, more specifically in preparation for the GED (High School equivalence test).
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That's not a JCC. JCC is the newer name of the YMHA (Young Men's Hebrew Association). JCC's are UJA/Federation type places.
This was a 'Jewish Community Center' which is why some refer to it as JCC, although as you pointed out it has no relation to the official JCC organization. It was called ALIYAH and operated as a place for 'troubled Jewish youth' to go to.
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That's what I was thinking. But maybe it was some ordinary citizen who called the police.
In my response I wasn't implying anything about the place nor of it being at fault or anything like that. I just responded to Brennanfan when he asked what was it and who probably is in charge.
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This was a 'Jewish Community Center' which is why some refer to it as JCC, although as you pointed out it has no relation to the official JCC organization. It was called ALIYAH and operated as a place for 'troubled Jewish youth' to go to.
You mean the building used to belong to the official JCC organization or they mean Jcc with a lower case cc (Jewish community center).
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The officers actions were totally uncalled for, there was no need for a single strike! If he was a real cop he would of easily taken him down without causing harm to the man and arrested him!
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The officers actions were totally uncalled for, there was no need for a single strike! If he was a real cop he would of easily taken him down without causing harm to the man and arrested him!
If the cop was black, the man arrested would be called racist by the media.
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If the cop was black, the man arrested would be called racist by the media.
Very true!
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The obvious answer is that the guy who called the cops was not aware that this fellow had permission to stay there. It sounds like misunderstanding and miscommunication all around. Mix in confused homeless guy, impatient cop and you have this mess.
More like a typical dbag with a hero complex who wanted to be the big man and get his face in the news. That Zalmann pig, ys, needs to be sued into homelessness and the homeless kid get his house in exchange.
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You know what? I did from my original post...sort of. I do stand by that he was trespassing and resisting arrest. The cop did not behave appropriately either. I would have lied about inviting the homeless guy to protect him. And my advice to the homeless guy is to not mess with cops. You don't know who you are ticking off.
How can you say that when the director of the JCC's youth program gave him permission to stay there?
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How can you say that when the director of the JCC's youth program gave him permission to stay there?
Sorry..let me clarify. I have a feeling...and it's just a feeling and not fact, that rabbi feiglan might be lying to protect the victim for the brutality which took place. I am also saying that if this were true, I agree with rabbi feiglan...I would lie also.
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Sorry..let me clarify. I have a feeling...and it's just a feeling and not fact, that rabbi feiglan might be lying to protect the victim for the brutality which took place. I am also saying that if this were true, I agree with rabbi feiglan...I would lie also.
1: Why would a rabbi lie on behalf of a random intruder? It makes zero sense. Do you have any evidence for this?
2: Even if this were somehow true it doesn't justify an emergency call (wtf? was this kid threatening the life of that Trappler Zalmann pos?) being placed to throw him out and have him beaten to a pulp.
I hope that the JCC is sued into bankruptcy and this poor Israeli kid gets to live in it, for the rest of his life.
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More like a typical dbag with a hero complex who wanted to be the big man and get his face in the news. That Zalmann pig, ys, needs to be sued into homelessness and the homeless kid get his house in exchange.
I dont feel comfortable you using such language on a Jew without any clear evidence to what happened and without any facts coming out as of yett. Just soo you know (in case you don't )YSV is very strong language that should only be reserved to outright traitors, minim and apikorsim (when it is beyond a reasonable doubt).
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1: Why would a rabbi lie on behalf of a random intruder? It makes zero sense. Do you have any evidence for this?
2: Even if this were somehow true it doesn't justify an emergency call (wtf? was this kid threatening the life of that Trappler Zalmann pos?) being placed to throw him out and have him beaten to a pulp.
I hope that the JCC is sued into bankruptcy and this poor Israeli kid gets to live in it, for the rest of his life.
I said I had a feeling. Sorry no proof required for a feeling. I never stated it was a fact the rabbi was lying. I just have a feeling that he was lying to protect him. Most rabbis are responsible and they would inform security of a homeless man staying at the center. That's just ny opinion and speculation. I could be wrong
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In my response I wasn't implying anything about the place nor of it being at fault or anything like that. I just responded to Brennanfan when he asked what was it and who probably is in charge.
Yeah I also thought it was a Chabad place.
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I dont feel comfortable you using such language on a Jew without any clear evidence to what happened and without any facts coming out as of yett. Just soo you know (in case you don't )YSV is very strong language that should only be reserved to outright traitors, minim and apikorsim (when it is beyond a reasonable doubt).
The facts are that this Trappler called the SECULAR POLICE on an innocent Jew that was not harming him, let alone posing a life-threatening situation which is what is needed to justify a 911 call. The secular police beat this poor guy within an inch of his life. Granted I am no halacha expert but I have heard Chaim address this kind of situation many times on Ask JTF and he clearly stated that it is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to rat out a fellow Jew to secular Gentile authorities unless it is an absolute life/death emergency. This makes Zalmann a kapo and a Judenrat, no different from those "Jews" who turned in fellow children to the Nazis in occupied Europe. He deserves everything that may come to him in this life and the world to come and I think ysv was completely warranted.
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The incident is about police beating this guy, regardless of the circumstances behind it, it is their job to take care of the situation including arresting someone and NOT beating the sh^t out of somebody when they are not posing a threat and can be easily apprehended.
And about mentioning someone black (as was asked earlier what if he was black) I would and am against that as well. If their is a situation where the guy is swinging or pulling a gun or knife, understandable the cop should do what needs to be done for his/her safety but not in situations like this. And if today its a black guy or him or whomever else tomorrow it can be you. Obviously their is a middle, rational ground that must be taken where both the police officers safety should be a priority and the rights of the individuals is upheld where people should not be expected or be beaten like that.
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The facts are that this Trappler called the SECULAR POLICE on an innocent Jew that was not harming him, let alone posing a life-threatening situation which is what is needed to justify a 911 call. The secular police beat this poor guy within an inch of his life. Granted I am no halacha expert but I have heard Chaim address this kind of situation many times on Ask JTF and he clearly stated that it is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to rat out a fellow Jew to secular Gentile authorities unless it is an absolute life/death emergency. This makes Zalmann a kapo and a Judenrat, no different from those "Jews" who turned in fellow children to the Nazis in occupied Europe. He deserves everything that may come to him in this life and the world to come and I think ysv was completely warranted.
First off they are not Secular (but that's not important). Secondly you, me, we do not know the circumstances behind this whole incident. Their certainly are, and not only are but should, MUST call and address the cops or authorities depending upon the situation.
Secondly them beating him has nothing to do with the person calling them. That was and is the responsibility of the cops and the NYPD under normal circumstances the person would either just be told to leave or removed otherwise.
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Good points tag and I agree with you.
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First off they are not Secular (but that's not important). Secondly you, me, we do not know the circumstances behind this whole incident. Their certainly are, and not only are but should, MUST call and address the cops or authorities depending upon the situation.
Secondly them beating him has nothing to do with the person calling them. That was and is the responsibility of the cops and the NYPD under normal circumstances the person would either just be told to leave or removed otherwise.
What do you mean they are not secular? This was NYPD. Last time I checked the U.S. Constitution prohibits the creation of a religious police force (though that may change if the Muslim gets reelected). Two Gentile Hispanic officers beat the living snot about a sleeping Jewish kid that was doing nothing to them or anybody. I'm sure that if I were roughly awakened by two cops for sleeping at a property that I felt was safe I'd panic in my half-asleep stupor too. This kid was trying to get away from the cops at most. He most certainly did not do anything that warranted felony charges.
But getting back to the original topic, this night watchman at the JCC called the secular Gentile police on an innocent Jewish kid that was doing absolutely nothing to him and Chaim Ben Pesach has said that that is kapo behavior.
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בס''ד
First, we should never curse people if we do not have all of the facts. We do not know who called or why or what the circumstances were - so to curse the Jewish Center is uncalled for. This same Jewish Center provided the video footage from their camera to expose this brutality, so it seems to me that they were completely against what took place.
Second, the gestapo-like brutality of the two police officers (the man and the woman) is an outrage. If they intended to arrest this Israeli Jewish man, once they subdued him on the couch, there was no need to savagely assault him dozens of times. If this had been a black criminal, it would have caused riots.
Third, the police should treat an Israeli Jew in a Jewish synagogue differently from the way they treat black criminals who resist arrest. Israeli Jews do not murder police officers or endanger their lives. This Israeli Jew should never have been arrested to begin with. He had permission to sleep there. That's why he resisted when they decided to unjustly arrest him. Is it dumb to resist arrest? Yes. But he was arrested unfairly. Once he was arrested, he should have been subdued and cuffed. Period. In the case of black criminals, police should use much more force because blacks have murdered many police officers over the years. Even if it is "politically incorrect", true justice demands that we make a huge distinction between a basically harmless Israeli Jew and a violent black criminal.
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בס''ד
First, we should never curse people if we do not have all of the facts. We do not know who called or why or what the circumstances were - so to curse the Jewish Center is uncalled for. This same Jewish Center provided the video footage from their camera to expose this brutality, so it seems to me that they were completely against what took place.
Second, the gestapo-like brutality of the two police officers (the man and the woman) is an outrage. If they intended to arrest this Israeli Jewish man, once they subdued him on the couch, there was no need to savagely assault him dozens of times. If this had been a black criminal, it would have caused riots.
Third, the police should treat an Israeli Jew in a Jewish synagogue differently from the way they treat black criminals who resist arrest. Israeli Jews do not murder police officers or endanger their lives. This Israeli Jew should never have been arrested to begin with. He had permission to sleep there. That's why he resisted when they decided to unjustly arrest him. Is it dumb to resist arrest? Yes. But he was arrested unfairly. Once he was arrested, he should have been subdued and cuffed. Period. In the case of black criminals, police should use much more force because blacks have murdered many police officers over the years. Even if it is "politically incorrect", true justice demands that we make a huge distinction between a basically harmless Israeli Jew and a violent black criminal.
Agree with your explanation.
I have another question..If the homeless person was never invited and actually trespassed, do you think it is acceptable for a Rabbi to lie about the invitation to protect the homeless person? I believe it's ok.
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Thank you for explaining yourself Chaim.
Dr. Dan, your theory still makes zero sense. What would the rabbi be "protecting" him from? The deed was done.
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Thank you for explaining yourself Chaim.
Dr. Dan, your theory still makes zero sense. What would the rabbi be "protecting" him from? The deed was done.
Imagine the cop trying to justify in court his reaction to the victim either resisting arrest or trespass. The judge might see it as a green light for the cop to act the way he did. But with the rabbi stating, "No, I invited him.." not only makes the victim not a trespasser, but also makes the cop look even worse for doing the brutality and much more compassion by the judge on the side of the victim IMO.
The rabbi might have not been aware of making this invitation, but by stating that he was invited, it makes the victim even more innocent than some perceived as a trespasser.
Bottom line is this...the cop acted unjustly. When someone is supposedly trespassing, he has to be first told to leave. When he doesn't leave, then he should be handcuffed. I know this from personal experience.
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Chaim explained it well and about the tape being given by them also for me at least for now convinces me that it seems like it was a big misunderstanding.
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Cops can be very brutal, especially if you mess with them. I try to avoid them at all costs.
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They didn't want to hear his explanation, he was surely telling them he had permission to reside there, they didn't listen to him as though they knew he had permission and nonetheless decided to attack him.
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They didn't want to hear his explanation, he was surely telling them he had permission to reside there, they didn't listen to him as though they knew he had permission and nonetheless decided to attack him.
I agree.