JTF.ORG Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lisa on May 29, 2013, 01:11:27 PM

Title: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Lisa on May 29, 2013, 01:11:27 PM
I've always been curious as to why Israel is always referred to as a state rather than a country.  Why is that?  Why is no other country described as a state? 
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: HiWarp on May 29, 2013, 01:55:20 PM
I've always been curious as to why Israel is always referred to as a state rather than a country.  Why is that?  Why is no other country described as a state?

Actually "state" is synonymous with "country". There's really no difference between the two. As to why no other country is regularly referred to as "the state of...", beats me.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: CorrieDeservedIt on May 29, 2013, 02:46:33 PM
I have a better question
Why is it that the only state or country who's existence is under questioning, is the ONLY jewish country in existence?
That's a more frightening question..
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Mein Koran on May 29, 2013, 03:03:54 PM
I have a better question
Why is it that the only state or country who's existence is under questioning, is the ONLY jewish country in existence?
That's a more frightening question..

There was once an Arab named Mohammad.....
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on May 29, 2013, 08:44:48 PM
I've always been curious as to why Israel is always referred to as a state rather than a country.  Why is that?  Why is no other country described as a state?


Only Americans don't know that in most places, the state is the same as a country. The State is the government but the Land is the country. So saying Eretz Yisrael (The Land of Israel) is like calling it a country. When talking about Israel since 1948, we say the State to diffentiate it from the British Mandate and the other occupiers that preceded it.

In the United States, there are 50 states in a federal union. Israel is one state with 6 districts (7 if you include Judea and Samaria as a district. It's more like a territory, compared to American states before statehood.). Each district is like a county in an American state. Israel does not have a federal government like the United States or countries with a similar system of government such as Mexico which also has states or Australia which has states (But they have the Queen rather than a federal President.). Canada is also similar but it has provinces which are more powerful than American states. Canada can be compared to a Confederation rather than a Federation.

Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Israel Chai on May 29, 2013, 08:48:57 PM
With almost no exception, every modern country is a state. A state is when the government has the monopoly over the legitimate use of force in a territory, so city-states are like Athens, but a country-state, which might be the technical term, is when a government that people support rules over a country. America is a state.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: muman613 on May 29, 2013, 08:53:00 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State

Political science [edit]

* State (polity), an organized political community, living under a government

* Sovereign state, a sovereign political entity in public international law

* "State", in some contexts virtually synonymous with "government", e.g., to distinguish state (government) from private schools

* Nation state, a state which coincides with a nation

* Federated state, a political entity forming part of a federal sovereign state such as the USA, Australia, India, and Brazil

* Member state, a member of an international organization
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on May 29, 2013, 08:57:55 PM
* State (polity), an organized political community, living under a government


In Israel, the Government means the current PM and his ministers. The State is the whole institution including the 3 brances of seperation of powers (Knesset, PM and the Executive branch of ministers which is called the Government, and the courts which act like dicators in Israel.). In prosections, the Attorney General represents the State. Attorney General is not a cabinet position in Israel.

Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: JTFenthusiast2 on May 29, 2013, 09:29:45 PM
There was once an Arab named Mohammad.....

I think this is one of the funniest names that I have ever seen
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on May 29, 2013, 09:38:30 PM
What HiWarp said.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 29, 2013, 09:41:46 PM
United "States" of America?
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on May 29, 2013, 09:49:53 PM
As to why no other country is regularly referred to as "the state of...", beats me.


The official name of Israel is the State of Israel. Maybe others aren't called states more often because they use names like "the Republic of ____" or the "____ Republic".

Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Israel Chai on May 29, 2013, 09:56:07 PM


The official name of Israel is the State of Israel. Maybe others aren't called states more often because they use names like "the Republic of ____" or the "____ Republic".

The city state of Athens was a republic, but was only a city state. America is a republic and a state.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: HiWarp on May 30, 2013, 06:34:40 AM
The city state of Athens was a republic, but was only a city state. America is a republic and a state.

The city state of Athens was a democracy, not a republic. The citizens did not elect representatives, they actually participated in their governance.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Israel Chai on May 30, 2013, 03:14:18 PM
The city state of Athens was a democracy, not a republic. The citizens did not elect representatives, they actually participated in their governance.

That's direct vs. representative democracy. Athens was a republic.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: syyuge on May 30, 2013, 04:13:42 PM
Oh! Now I get it. Apart from the main state of Israel, its other states are hidden between Nile, Euphrates, Hittites and Aden and G_d willing they may be visible on any (good) day.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Israel Chai on May 30, 2013, 04:16:59 PM
Oh! Now I get it. Apart from the main state of Israel, its other states are hidden between Nile, Euphrates, Hittites and Aden and G_d willing they may be visible on any (good) day.

Not completely sure I follow.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: syyuge on May 30, 2013, 04:23:25 PM
Oh! Now I get it. Apart from the main state of Israel, its other states are hidden between Nile, Euphrates, Hittites and Aden and G_d willing they may be visible on any (good) day.
Not completely sure I follow.

I think I am talking about the Greater Israel.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Israel Chai on May 30, 2013, 04:39:19 PM
I think I am talking about the Greater Israel.

That is what I thought. May we see the United States of Israel in our lifetime.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on May 30, 2013, 06:31:59 PM
That is what I thought. May we see the United States of Israel in our lifetime.


We will have The United Kingdom of Israel including the 12 tribal portions under King Mashiach like under King Solomon. There will not be a federal system like the US.

Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Israel Chai on May 30, 2013, 06:33:37 PM


We will have The United Kingdom of Israel including the 12 tribal portions under King Mashiach like under King Solomon. There will not be a federal system like the US.

Federalism isn't really against the bible. By all accounts, it'll be a federative monarchy, with different levels of power cooperating.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on May 30, 2013, 06:36:22 PM
Federalism isn't really against the bible. By all accounts, it'll be a federative monarchy, with different levels of power cooperating.


The United States system is actually based on Biblical Israel because the Founding Fathers were Righteous Gentiles.

Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Israel Chai on May 30, 2013, 06:47:53 PM


The United States system is actually based on Biblical Israel because the Founding Fathers were Righteous Gentiles.

The concept itself I believe came from the native Americans, who organized their government with cooperating tribes having jurisdiction over their own territories, and some "federal" powers given to the union.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: HiWarp on May 31, 2013, 06:25:03 AM
That's direct vs. representative democracy. Athens was a republic.

Since the citizens of Athens did not vote for representatives that they sent to the assembly, which is typically what is defined as a republican form of government, but were directly involved in the affairs of the city-state, I don't know what you mean when you call it a republic.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Israel Chai on May 31, 2013, 12:04:02 PM
Since the citizens of Athens did not vote for representatives that they sent to the assembly, which is typically what is defined as a republican form of government, but were directly involved in the affairs of the city-state, I don't know what you mean when you call it a republic.

Republic means there is no absolute monarch, but if people don't vote for their rulers, then it wouldn't be a republic, so then Athens wouldn't be. Thanks for the historical brush-up. Them being directly involved in legislation has no bearing on this, however.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Nachus on May 31, 2013, 06:26:21 PM
 :usa+israel:                                                                                                                       :fist:


 To the contrary, this is a very good question.
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Ephraim Ben Noach on May 31, 2013, 06:58:57 PM


The United States system is actually based on Biblical Israel because the Founding Fathers were Righteous Gentiles.
http://biblesearchers.typepad.com/destination-yisrael/2010/07/the-jewish-torah-roots-of-the-american-constitution-by-prof-paul-eidelberg.html
Title: Re: I Have A Stupid Question So Please Bear With Me
Post by: Binyamin Yisrael on June 01, 2013, 11:01:17 PM
http://biblesearchers.typepad.com/destination-yisrael/2010/07/the-jewish-torah-roots-of-the-american-constitution-by-prof-paul-eidelberg.html


I heard him say it on Arutz 7.