JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spiraling Leopard on July 07, 2013, 10:48:37 AM
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http://www.debbieschlussel.com/64090/david-horowitz-says-zimmerman-a-guilty-liar-wants-concealed-gun-stand-your-ground-laws-repealed-black-panthers-never-change/
David Horowitz Says “Zimmerman a Guilty Liar;” Wants Concealed Gun, Stand Your Ground Laws Repealed – Black Panthers Never Change.
A Black Panther doesn’t change its lack of spots. And so it goes with past Black Panther enabler/supporter/financier and now self-proclaimed “conservative” (apparently for business reasons) David Horowitz. Looks like he’s back on the bandwagon with his Black Panther pals. Horowitz, today,
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/david-horowitz/is-the-zimmerman-case-really-open-and-shut/
declared that George Zimmerman is a guilty liar and cannot be trusted in the court case against him. He says conservatives are wrong to support Zimmerman’s self-defense claim. He also wants the repeal of Conceal and Carry gun and Stand Your Ground laws, putting him smack dab in the midst of the gun control crowd. You’ll recall that the reconstitution of David Horowitz’s Black Panther gang, the New Black Panther Party, is the racist, hateful organization that is the reason Zimmerman was even charged.
(http://www.debbieschlussel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/davidhorowitz.jpg)(http://www.debbieschlussel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/trayvonmartin.jpg)
“Conservative” Liberal David Horowitz Now Pimping Us on “Guiltless Young Man” Trayvon Martin, Repeal of Concealed Weapons, Stand Your Ground Laws
I’m not surprised by Horowitz’s declaration, today. As you know, I’ve told you in the past about how David Horowitz and his site hypocritically gushed over and lamented the death of HAMAS supporter and vocal anti-Semite Robert Novak,
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/7282/et-tu-front-page-mag-site-that-preaches-against-jihad-whitewashes-jihadi-comrade-robert-novak/
who said Israel was behind 9/11. Horowitz regularly calls out the left for this same kind of anti-Semitism and Jew-hatred, but remains silent or–in the case of Novak–even celebrates when those on the right do the same. When I called David out on the Novak piece, he got indignant and mad at me, claiming he is not responsible for what goes up–and, to date, remains up as the gushing Novak piece does–on the site where HE is the EDITOR IN CHIEF. Hellooooo . . . . ? Yup, the website that he uses in frequent urgent fundraising schnorrer [Yiddish for "mooch"] letters for his non-profit (which seems to have profited him quite well), using the site as his Exhibit A for why donors should fund him (so he can pay himself over $500,000 per year plus outside speaking fees galore) because he’s so “pro-Israel and outspoken against anti-Semitism and the Islamic threat.”
I laughed when I noted that Daniel Pipes and his organization, David Horowitz and his organization, AND the Thomas More Law Center (which praised and promoted Muslim death, rape, and torture threats on my life and anti-Semitic Holocaust-denial)
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/16688/on-rahms-retards-comment-why-do-conservatives-pal-w-cretin-who-called-me-special-needs-kid/
all tried to raise money for themselves at the same time, with each of them claiming that each alone paid for the legal defense of plagiarist blogger Joseph Kaufman against CAIR in the same lawsuit. And yet, Kaufman’s lawyer sent me an e-mail telling me he defended Kaufman in that suit for free. Cha-ching! Cha-ching! Cha-ching!
You should note that Horowitz’s organization also pays Slobbert Spencer nearly $200,000 per year, so he can spend his time sending me crazy, unsolicited e-mails late at night calling me, “evil,” and so he can contact various websites demanding that they stop promoting and linking to my work. Oh, and so Slobbert can rip off my work and admit to me in writing that he has but refuse to give credit for his theft. Horowitz also gave out some stupid award to Scamela Geller, the car loan fraud scammer who paid off Muslim straw buyers at her car dealership and has two murders in her path, including an investigating cop and her one honest employee–a father of four–who was apparently telling on her to police. (Her mansion was raided by the NYPD because she illegally kept the business’ real books there.)
And the David Horowitz Freedom Center also handsomely pays certain bloggers to just regurgitate what they read on this site, nearly word for word. I’ve had to repeatedly call David and his employees out and demand credit for my work that they lift (I have the e-mails to prove it and the discussions with him in which he admits they stole from me). His minions have also cut and pasted much of my original work from here for their “Discover the Networks” profit center of plagiarism, another item he uses to schnorr money off the work of others. Yes, that’s what liberals do: they take your property so that they can profit off of it without remuneration or any work whatsoever of their own.
I’ve known David for many years and used to like him a lot more . . . when I naively bought his act. When I was an undergraduate student at the University of Michigan, he and his then co-author of best-selling celebrity books, Peter Collier (who now runs his Freedom Center organization), came to visit campus. They visited myself and some other students who were involved in supporting aid to the Contras, the Nicaraguan Freedom Fighters who opposed Communist dictator Daniel Ortega. They supported us, and we appreciated their help and moral support in a sea of Marxist liberals in Ann Arbor. My, how things have come full circle. Ortega is back in power in Nicaragua. And David Horowitz is back to being a liberal.
Horowitz’s love letter to Trayvon Martin and his gushing over Jew-hating Bob HAMAS Novak aren’t the only things he’s done to indicate he’s not who he says he is. Right after 9/11, David wrote an accurate, spot-on piece attacking anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, pro-HAMAS/Hezbollah Hussein Ibish, then the spokesman for the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee. But Horowitz not only removed the piece, he publicly apologized to Ibish and retracted it,
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=21322
saying he was wrong and that the openly anti-Semitic Ibish was a nice guy. Why? Because the anti-Israel Christopher Hitchens told him so. When I e-mailed David to question why he did this, he said he did it because Hitchens told him to and that it would be up to me and Daniel Pipes (yeah–I know–hilarious!) to make up for this and publish the real story on Ibish.
In other conversations, David defended Matt Brooks, the chief-for-life of the Republican Jewish Coalition, who repeatedly invites Jew-haters and anti-Israel scumbags to speak at RJC events. When I questioned why Matt repeatedly gets paid over $700,000 in salary (plus benefits) so he can pig out on shrimp and lobster and hang out at poker tournaments, while large percentages of Jews vote Democrat, David got upset. After all, RJC and its associated organization (also headed by Brooks), the Jewish Center for Policy Analysis, often pay David Horowitz mega-bucks for speeches. At one of these events, David Horowitz said (and I have the video to prove it) that Jonathan Pollard should rot in prison for life, etc.
As readers know, I’m no fan of George Zimmerman
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/50229/moron-george-zimmerman-wife-lied-to-judge-bond-revoked-will-be-arrested/
(though I don’t think he’s a racist in the least).
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/50025/do-these-george-zimmerman-comments-actions-sound-racist-to-you/
I agree that he lied about his legal defense fund fundraising and didn’t listen to his first set of attorneys, who justifiably fired him as a client. I wrote about that on this site. And I’ve noted how he bragged on the jailhouse phone to his wife that they would become rich and famous off of all of this, which is quite unseemly, not to mention stupid. But it is quite clear that he killed Trayvon Martin in self-defense, and the case should never have been brought, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks of him personally. Yes, the sleazy scumbag Trayvon Martin who sent out the most disgusting tweets,
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/48402/trayvon-martins-filthy-porno-esque-tweets-if-obama-had-a-son-would-he-talk-like-this/
was suspended from school, was an apparent drug user, tormented the homeless, etc., attacked and brutally beat Zimmerman, or he’d be alive today. But to White Black Panther David Horowitz, he’s a “guiltless” angel who did not fight with George Zimmerman or bash his head to create gashes, scars, and draw blood (I guess ghosts did that). To David, Trayvon Martin is:
A young man who was unarmed and guiltless of any crime is dead. And shouldn’t there be some penalty to pay for that?
If someone beats David Horowitz and he fears for his life, I hope he doesn’t try to defend himself. Because if he does, then we’ll have to use his sordid logic that “there should be some penalty to pay for that.”
And I’m just completely disgusted that David Horowitz–who lives in a giant mansion in the comfort of fancy, celebrity-infested Pacific Palisades, California–wants to take away my right to defend myself in the unsafe, urban neighborhood in which I live. And he wants to take away my right to conceal and carry firearms because, according to reverted liberal David Horowitz, I’m not capable enough to be trusted to handle my gun appropriately and it will lead to “guiltless young men” getting killed.
The Stand Your Ground Law should be rewritten to apply only to home invasions since then it is clear that the intruder is the aggressor and the response is self-defense. Second, Neighborhood Watch guards should not be permitted to conceal and carry. If you are carrying a weapon it changes your attitude and can well lead you into dangerous situations (such as following someone who doesn’t want to be followed) that you would otherwise avoid. And worse it can lead you to take the life of someone who whatever he did, did not deserve to die.
Are you bleeping kidding me? I and my Second Amendment rights should be limited because David Horowitz doesn’t like how George Zimmerman acted? That’s the idiocy of liberals. NOT conservatives. (That’s not to mention the fact that it doesn’t matter if Zimmerman “wrongly” followed Trayvon Martin. Once Martin was on top of him, beating him, it was Zimmerman’s legal right to defend himself. Period.)
And David has proven, yet again, that he isn’t the latter–that he’s not a conservative. For him, that’s just an act. Because he once was a successful author selling thousands of books on the Kennedys and the British royal family, and that dried up.
A new schtick was needed. Cha-ching.
But he doesn’t really believe in any of it, as he keeps proving. And now he wants to take away my right to defend myself unless it’s at my home and my right to conceal and carry my gun.
Please tell me how those views differ from those of Barack Obama, George Soros, and the rest of the gang he’s made a mint off of pretending to oppose.
By the way, David, since you no longer support my Bill of Rights freedoms, including my right to carry a concealed weapon and my right to defend myself from violent thugs, you might wanna delete the word Freedom from your “David Horowitz Freedom Center” money machine.
Clearly, with his call for the taking away of my freedoms and rights, David Horowitz couldn’t care less about freedom, yours or mine. Not even a little.
I learned something from David Horowitz:
Once a Black Panther, Always a Black Panther.
Even if your skin pigment happens to be White and FOX News and mindless thousands of conservatives blindly pay you money.
*** UPDATE: There is so much stuff on which David has been hypocritical and/or just plain liberal that I did not remember everything as I wrote this column. As reader and commenter Charles Rector reminds me, below, David and his “Freedom Center” hired at least three anti-Semites–Jenn Taylor (who is now “editor” of Michelle Malkin’s self-masturbation site, Twitchy), John Hawkins, and Cassy Fiano–to blog for him on his FrontPageMag site at $100 per post.
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/33085/irony-of-the-day-david-horowitz-bloggers-who-praised-muslim-death-rape-threats-upset-over-lara-logan-column-on-islam/
Those three praised, promoted, and supported deranged Thomas More Law Center attorney Emily Zanotti in her praise and support on her blog for Muslim death, rape, and torture threats on my life and that of my Holocaust survivor grandmother (who has since died) and Holocaust-denying anti-Semitic comments. They repeatedly attacked and bullied me for complaining about it and they supported Zanotti’s mocking of me for contacting the FBI over the death threats. David and his website editors were made aware of this and didn’t care. These same cretins also attacked me for being against Arab Spring. They kept paying them and featuring their crap on the blog, until the blog ultimately failed and much does from the mis-named “Freedom Center” a/k/a David Horowitz Luxury Retirement Fund.
At this point, I’m sad that my late father was a donor–multiple times–to the various incarnations of David Schnorr-owitz’s self-promotion enterprises, from the Center for the Study of Popular Culture to the vanity project, The David Horowitz Freedom Center. My dad stopped his support when he saw Horowitz’s comments about Pollard. But I know my dad is really turning over in his grave now, because he really believe Horowitz was a conservative. At one point, many of us did.
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Amazing that people think they are God and can determine that someone is lying. Horowitz... what a disappointment.
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Shame on David Horowitz.
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I think Debbie Schlussel needs to get off her pedestal. I'm not defending David Horowitz on whatever statement he has made as I don't know the full story, but it seems that Debbie Schlussel is only interested in waging wars within the right-wing movement. She attacks anyone whose agenda views are only bit different from hers as a traitor. In the past, she attacked Pamela Geller (whom she numerously referred to as 'Scamela Geller') even though Pamela Geller has been married and has four children unlike Debbie who is 44 and has never even been married. She praised CAIR for shutting down Bare Naked Islam whom she accused of 'anti-Semitism' (lol). Plus, she spends more time reviewing and giving positive marks to Hollywood left-wing garbage "movies" and paying tributes to leftists like Roger Ebert rather than writing about black racist hate crimes against whites, Jews, and Asians.
And now she attacks David Horowitz, who allowed her to write for FrontPage Magazine and who actually made people attracted to her blog. Yes, Horowitz is not great by any means, but he has done more to spread the message of the dangers of both Islam and black racism (even if it was done in politically correct manner) outside the web, travelling through different college campuses and giving speeches while attending Tea Party rallies and CPAC. He created the largest right-wing web network attracting writers and activists from all over the world. What has Debbie Schlussel done in percent if comparing to Horowitz or Geller (whom she continuously bashes for no reason at all)? I'm sure most people have never even heard of her name to begin with.
And no, I'm not bashing her views. I'm speaking out against her personality. She is a very unlikeable person and should stop attacking other people from the right, or better, stick to her pointless blog and shut the hell up.
Just wait on until she would write a column attacking JTF and Chaim in particular. I would not be surprised if she would actually do so.
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I think Debbie Schlussel needs to get off her pedestal. I'm not defending David Horowitz on whatever statement he has made as I don't know the full story, but it seems that Debbie Schlussel is only interested in waging wars within the right-wing movement. She attacks anyone whose agenda views are only bit different from hers as a traitor. In the past, she attacked Pamela Geller (whom she numerously referred to as 'Scamela Geller') even though Pamela Geller has been married and has four children unlike Debbie who is 44 and has never even been married. She praised CAIR for shutting down Bare Naked Islam whom she accused of 'anti-Semitism' (lol). Plus, she spends more time reviewing and giving positive marks to Hollywood left-wing garbage "movies" and paying tributes to leftists like Roger Ebert rather than writing about black racist hate crimes against whites, Jews, and Asians.
And now she attacks David Horowitz, who allowed her to write for FrontPage Magazine and who actually made people attracted to her blog. Yes, Horowitz is not great by any means, but he has done more to spread the message of the dangers of both Islam and black racism (even if it was done in politically correct manner) outside the web, travelling through different college campuses and giving speeches while attending Tea Party rallies and CPAC. He created the largest right-wing web network attracting writers and activists from all over the world. What has Debbie Schlussel done in percent if comparing to Horowitz or Geller (whom she continuously bashes for no reason at all)? I'm sure most people have never even heard of her name to begin with.
And no, I'm not bashing her views. I'm speaking out against her personality. She is a very unlikeable person and should stop attacking other people from the right, or better, stick to her pointless blog and shut the hell up.
Just wait on until she would write a column attacking JTF and Chaim in particular. I would not be surprised if she would actually do so.
I'm sorry to agree with you.. That piece seemed like sour grapes to me... How she belittled everyone who is doing anti-Islam work who doesn't agree with her on everything.
I actually believe Pamela Geller is doing Stellar work in the field of getting the world to wake up to the nightmare of islam, even more than Shlussel and in a way Shlussel is MUY Jealous. Just my opinion...
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But I also strongly disagree with Horowitz on this one... Zimmerman seems like a mensche who was standing his ground against an angry little thug. To kiss Sharpton and Jacksons Black Panther rumps is pathetic.
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How silly. David Horowitz said nothing of the sort an Ed a great man. This woman is a mental case. I wouldn't put it past her that she's a closet liberal here to divide everyone. Apparently she is the only conservative in the world
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The bottom line is if what she says David Horowitz had done is true then he is a fake conservative.
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I think Debbie Schlussel needs to get off her pedestal. I'm not defending David Horowitz on whatever statement he has made as I don't know the full story, but it seems that Debbie Schlussel is only interested in waging wars within the right-wing movement. She attacks anyone whose agenda views are only bit different from hers as a traitor. In the past, she attacked Pamela Geller (whom she numerously referred to as 'Scamela Geller') even though Pamela Geller has been married and has four children unlike Debbie who is 44 and has never even been married. She praised CAIR for shutting down Bare Naked Islam whom she accused of 'anti-Semitism' (lol). Plus, she spends more time reviewing and giving positive marks to Hollywood left-wing garbage "movies" and paying tributes to leftists like Roger Ebert rather than writing about black racist hate crimes against whites, Jews, and Asians.
And now she attacks David Horowitz, who allowed her to write for FrontPage Magazine and who actually made people attracted to her blog. Yes, Horowitz is not great by any means, but he has done more to spread the message of the dangers of both Islam and black racism (even if it was done in politically correct manner) outside the web, travelling through different college campuses and giving speeches while attending Tea Party rallies and CPAC. He created the largest right-wing web network attracting writers and activists from all over the world. What has Debbie Schlussel done in percent if comparing to Horowitz or Geller (whom she continuously bashes for no reason at all)? I'm sure most people have never even heard of her name to begin with.
And no, I'm not bashing her views. I'm speaking out against her personality. She is a very unlikeable person and should stop attacking other people from the right, or better, stick to her pointless blog and shut the hell up.
Just wait on until she would write a column attacking JTF and Chaim in particular. I would not be surprised if she would actually do so.
Please explain how promoting restrictive gun laws and defending Trayvon Martin constitutes a "right wing movement."
And that my friend is precisely Debbie's point in criticizing the leftist fluff Horowitz is currently embracing. If someone truly represents rightwing views, she would have no reason to critique them.
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And no, I'm not bashing her views. I'm speaking out against her personality. She is a very unlikeable person and should stop attacking other people from the right, or better, stick to her pointless blog and shut the hell up.
Debbie is frequently on the ball regardless of what you think of her personality. The people who she attacks are often frauds and deserve condemnation. As far as her blog being pointless, I read it regularly and I think it's very insightful.
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I read her blog regularly also. I like it, and the commenters seem very interesting as well.
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Doesn't he own frontpagemag?
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Doesn't he own frontpagemag?
I am not trying to be a butthead but does anyone else find this nickname somewhat offensive. I realize it is an insult to islam, but the C word is not a 'tzniut' kind of word. Unless I am just not hip to what the kids say today?
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Debbie Schlussel has broken many stories and done huge amount of investigative reporting original research and successful use of the legal system. She really seems to understand how to use the system in a way much of the right does not. As an individual she does more as one person then almost anyone else on the right.
That being said she seems to be too much of a perfectionist, anyone who disagrees with her even slightly becomes totally beyond the pale.
Though Debbie Schlussel is correct that many who are considered "conservative" or right-wing are enemies of Israel and America. Michelle Malkin being the perfect example.
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I am not trying to be a butthead but does anyone else find this nickname somewhat offensive. I realize it is an insult to islam, but the C word is not a 'tzniut' kind of word. Unless I am just not hip to what the kids say today?
yes
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I am not trying to be a butthead but does anyone else find this nickname somewhat offensive. I realize it is an insult to islam, but the C word is not a 'tzniut' kind of word. Unless I am just not hip to what the kids say today?
I also agree.
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I am not trying to be a butthead but does anyone else find this nickname somewhat offensive. I realize it is an insult to islam, but the C word is not a 'tzniut' kind of word. Unless I am just not hip to what the kids say today?
I thought it was another C-word at first!
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I thought it was another C-word at first!
I used that word in one of my Michelle Obama spoof videos.
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Zimmerman s NOT a dirty liar. I'm glad that he is pro-gun if he even is.
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Debbie Schlussel has broken many stories and done huge amount of investigative reporting original research and successful use of the legal system. She really seems to understand how to use the system in a way much of the right does not. As an individual she does more as one person then almost anyone else on the right.
That being said she seems to be too much of a perfectionist, anyone who disagrees with her even slightly becomes totally beyond the pale.
Though Debbie Schlussel is correct that many who are considered "conservative" or right-wing are enemies of Israel and America. Michelle Malkin being the perfect example.
I said that I disagree with her because she keeps waging wars within the right-wing movement and, in my estimation, wants to hurt and even destroy the right-wing causes. There are many historical examples that can prove my point. Ever heard of Sino-Soviet split? It was a time when China and Soviet Union, two major communist states, became so jealous of each other that they eventually turned against each other so hard that China even attempted to become more friendly towards the United States. This "war within the war" is one of the reasons why the communist empire has collapsed B'H. So anyone who dares to call out her ignorance is beyond the pale? And how are Michelle Malkin, Pamela Geller, and other conservatives she attacked, enemies of Israel and America?
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I said that I disagree with her because she keeps waging wars within the right-wing movement and, in my estimation, wants to hurt and even destroy the right-wing causes. There are many historical examples that can prove my point. Ever heard of Sino-Soviet split? It was a time when China and Soviet Union, two major communist states, became so jealous of each other that they eventually turned against each other so hard that China even attempted to become more friendly towards the United States. This "war within the war" is one of the reasons why the communist empire has collapsed B'H. So anyone who dares to call out her ignorance is beyond the pale? And how are Michelle Malkin, Pamela Geller, and other conservatives she attacked, enemies of Israel and America?
I see you refuse to answer my direct questions.
Are you aware that Pamela Gellar considers JTF beyond the pale and called us extremists to impress the so-called "moderates" and establish her own "legitimacy" in their eyes?
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KWRBT,
Despite the fact it may seem to diminish my support of JTF I will admit that despite the fact that Pamela disassociates herself from JTF I still support her. The fact that according to some sources JTF does qualify as a 'hate-site' even though my opinion is that it most certainly is not. JTF can be used by the enemies of those trying to get the message out by distorting her message as one of hate. This is the just 'facts of life' in a world where it is possible to tarnish an entire opinion by labeling it as something which most mainstream people see as abhorrent such as 'racism' and 'hate'.
As I said it is a distortion of the truth to suggest that JTF is extremist and promotes hatred. We all have our opinions about race and religion, and for the most part everyone has been represented. We admittedly would not be inviting to those of the muslim religion but this is only a reaction to the fact that islam has been at war (and started it) with the Jews since its inception. I am personally glad we do not appeal to muslims as I myself (because of my experience with 9/11) have a reason to hate the religion (and by extension those who want to promote it and use it against Jews).
I support Pamela Geller even though she may not say good things about us. I do know that her message has reached people who are not so activist as we are. There is something to be gained by people like Pamela doing her work. She is brave, and has performed well with the ad campaigns, and has attracted enough mainstream media attention to bring a spotlight to the issue.
So this is my explanation of my position. You are entitled to your position.
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KWRBT,
Despite the fact it may seem to diminish my support of JTF I will admit that despite the fact that Pamela disassociates herself from JTF I still support her. The fact that according to some sources JTF does qualify as a 'hate-site' even though my opinion is that it most certainly is not. JTF can be used by the enemies of those trying to get the message out by distorting her message as one of hate. This is the just 'facts of life' in a world where it is possible to tarnish an entire opinion by labeling it as something which most mainstream people see as abhorrent such as 'racism' and 'hate'.
As I said it is a distortion of the truth to suggest that JTF is extremist and promotes hatred. We all have our opinions about race and religion, and for the most part everyone has been represented. We admittedly would not be inviting to those of the muslim religion but this is only a reaction to the fact that islam has been at war (and started it) with the Jews since its inception. I am personally glad we do not appeal to muslims as I myself (because of my experience with 9/11) have a reason to hate the religion (and by extension those who want to promote it and use it against Jews).
I support Pamela Geller even though she may not say good things about us. I do know that her message has reached people who are not so activist as we are. There is something to be gained by people like Pamela doing her work. She is brave, and has performed well with the ad campaigns, and has attracted enough mainstream media attention to bring a spotlight to the issue.
So this is my explanation of my position. You are entitled to your position.
My point was not to bash Gellar. I've complained about her slander of JTF enough on this forum already.
My point was in direct response to Obamaistrash who suggests Debbie Shlussel is objectionable for considering Pamela Gellar (among other names mentioned) as "beyond the pale." Meanwhile, Pamela Gellar herself considers JTF "beyond the pale," but I guess that is fine and dandy in his view. Don't you find that even a little bit ironic on his part? I'm pointing out the irony in his attack on Shlussel.
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Reply to Debbie Schlussel’s Fanciful Accusations
I would have thought that Debbie Schlussel has attacked so many good conservatives, and in such extreme terms that people would by now simply dismiss her screeds as expressions of derangement but friends have informed me that I am wrong, and consequently I have agreed to provide a partial response to her recent attack on me. It’s only a partial response because the attacks are so absurd I am hoping that most people will see how bizarre these accusations are and I won’t have to go through the time-wasting tedium of answering the rest.
Begin with the title of her attack:
David Horowitz Says “Zimmerman a Guilty Liar;” Wants Concealed Gun, Stand Your Ground Laws Repealed – Black Panthers Never Change
False on all counts: I have never said Zimmerman is guilty of the charge against him, or used the words (in quotes) “Zimmerman a guilty liar.” I never said I want concealed gun laws repealed, and while I did say I thought the Stand Your Ground Law should modified, after reading the responses of my critics I conceded that my understanding of the Stand Your Ground Law was faulty and retracted even that mild statement. I was never a Black Panther. I am not a gun controller as Schlussel alleges but am a defender of the Second Amendment and a supporter of the NRA. She utterly distorts a statement I made that Neighborhood Watch guards who are not trained policemen should not carry concealed weapons so they do not get themselves into risky situations that require them to use them, and falsely concludes I am against concealed gun permits generally. I have since been informed that the Zimmerman shooting is virtually unique and so have had second thoughts about even this very limited statement which in typical fashion Schlussel has blown out of all proportion. I am a supporter of gun rights for citizens to defend themselves.
While I think with most conservatives that the legal case against Zimmerman is unwarranted and was the result of pressure from the “lynch mob that the civil rights movement has become” (words I have used in several articles, and sentiments expressed in my article on the Zimmerman case and in a previous article on Paula Deen), I don’t think that Zimmerman should have followed Martin but merely called 911 and that should merit some penalty (not a murder charge). My articles were not really about the legal issues in the Zimmerman case; they were about conservatives who had jumped to conclusions about Trayvon Martin’s character that were not warranted.
I did point out (and many paragraphs down in her screed Debbie agrees) that Zimmerman lied about the amount of money he had and had his bail revoked for it, and that he had made other false statements. But “guilty liar” is a wildly inaccurate statement of my views on the Zimmerman case. Others can read my article decide for themselves.
But Schlussel goes on to a much broader attack on my character. She somehow links me to the fascist New Black Panther Party because it is a “reconstitution” of the old Black Panther Party, which I supported. Yes I supported the Panthers when I was a leftist more than forty years ago, but since then as everyone ought to know I have been the leading voice exposing it for the criminal gang it was (something I learned at great cost to myself forty years ago). Moreover, the New Black Panther Party and its psychotic leader have no relation to the old, and indeed have been denounced by the aging members of the old Party, let alone by me.
Frontpage is edited by Jamie Glazov. I do not generally see Frontpage articles in advance of publication. , Frontpage did print an obituary of Robert Novak, which praised his work as a conservative and did overlook his anti-Israel positions. When made aware of it, I didn’t see that as the big deal that Debbie does and didn’t have Frontpage write another, negative, obituary because after all Novak was dead and no longer a problem. I myself did not write the Novak obit but that doesn’t stop Debbie from claiming that I gushed over an anti-Semite as Debbie maliciously claims.
I do not have to defend the work I and my Freedom Center have done in behalf of Israel and the Jews – which Debbie implies is non-existent and just a scam for raising money -- because it is accessible to anyone who cares to look for it. I will say that the Zionist Organization of American chose me to keynote its annual dinner last year, and the speech I gave about my views on Zionism and Israel, which received a standing ovation, is available on our website for anyone who cares to read it.
Joe Kaufman, a brave defender of Israel whom Debbie assaults along with my Freedom Center which paid for his legal costs, was the target of a suit by Islamists for protesting a Muslim Day at Six Flags. Debbie is a lawyer and knows full well – but chooses to ignore -- that there are legal costs around any case that run into the thousands of dollars even if the lawyers work pro bono. The principal lawyer represented Joe Kaufman but the charges for the lawyer who assisted him ran to more than $40,000, which the Center paid from the monies it raised.
I’m going to stop at Debbie’s vengeful attack on Robert Spencer, someone who has done more with a single one of his books on Islam (and he has written 9), and in his courageous appearances before hostile audiences to educate people about the nature of Islam and the jihadist threat, than Debbie has done with all her rants against good conservatives with whom she disagrees. The vitriol in her attacks on conservatives is obviously driven by envy and an out of control fear that they are getting more attention than she is, and that she thinks she deserves. Every time she has complained to me – which is maybe three or four times in the 25 years I have known her – about not getting credit for something she has written, I have seen to it that this oversight was repaired. All of us who work in media have seen our work used by others, and almost all of us except Debbie have regarded that as part of our missionary efforts. After all we are supposed to be serving a cause, and the more people who receive our information the better. But Debbie is virtually alone in accusing people of stealing her work and in neglecting to acknowledge that the cause may have been oversight rather than intention to steal. Others generally acknowledge when an injury has been repaired rather than barreling ahead with accusations that amount to character assassination.
Debbie’s rant against me could have been written by a Marxist-Leninist there is so much contempt for the market system and envy towards people who get rewarded for what they do in her river of bile. I never defended Matt Brooks’ selection of speakers, whatever they may be. I did defend the right of the RJC to pay him the salary he receives. What I said was that if Matt’s board thinks he is worth his salary for the benefits he brings to the organization that’s their business, that’s the way the market system works.
Because I rejected Marxism long ago I am not going to answer her attacks on the rewards that I or individuals who write for Frontpage receive for their work except to say this about her treatment of the facts. She accuses me of receiving “mega bucks” for speaking at RJC events. If $500, which is what I received, is mega bucks, so be it. I earned it.
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Shalom David,
I for one accept your explanation and I continue supporting your noble efforts to further the conservative, pro-Israel, and anti-Sharia causes.
Thank you for your explanation.
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Welcome to JTF, David.
While you're here, I would like you to take a look around, and learn more about the head of this movement, Chaim Ben Pesach, who was Rabbi Meir Kahane's right hand man when he ran the JDL.
I think you and Chaim should work together. You'll find him to be fascinating. Why not start with an interview on Frontpagemag.com?
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Shalom David,
I for one accept your explanation and I continue supporting your noble efforts to further the conservative, pro-Israel, and anti-Sharia causes.
Thank you for your explanation.
So he is the guy that runs frontpagemag. He publishes DG. I don't know of a single regular Sultan Knish reader who isn't completely sane, and refuse to accept that the man who publishes him is anything less than a hero. Shame on those that judged him on a lashon hara before knowing the facts.
And I could not be more honored than to be posting on the same thread as the great Mr. Horowitz. May G-d bless you and your work, sir.
I am not trying to be a butthead but does anyone else find this nickname somewhat offensive. I realize it is an insult to islam, but the C word is not a 'tzniut' kind of word. Unless I am just not hip to what the kids say today?
Please accept my apology Muman, and I say please because I know you understand me, and my intention, and that it wasn't to cause you offense, but it was stupid, so this apology is in order.
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Shalom LKZ,
I was not even aware it was you.... I certainly appreciate your changing your name from what it was before. While I fully support using anatomical terms for medical use, I think seeing those kinds of words over and over again may lead some to 'improper thoughts' if you know what I mean.
And I agree it is awesome that David personally responded to this thread and I hope we can work together with him.
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Shalom LKZ,
I was not even aware it was you.... I certainly appreciate your changing your name from what it was before. While I fully support using anatomical terms for medical use, I think seeing those kinds of words over and over again may lead some to 'improper thoughts' if you know what I mean.
And I agree it is awesome that David personally responded to this thread and I hope we can work together with him.
An honor that he did, a shame he had to on such unfortunate circumstances.
As for his statement, I agree with his explanation, but disagree that Zimmerman should be punished, because there is no law that one should call the police when they see something suspicious in their neighborhood, and especially not one concerning a neighborhood watch. A crime is what they have to report, their job is to observe, and to question. Saying that he should have called the cops because there was a black kid late at night is typical liberal racism, and sluggish reliance on law-enforcement today is not something I would advocate for a litany of rationales.
I find that the question, "what should have been done" is best answered through the lens of "what should be done next time", which is better understood by "what are we trying to accomplish/prevent?". To have the neighborhood watch scared to talk to anyone won't reduce crime, and will show the NBP how much "progress" they can make with this; "pardon one crime, and you encourage the commission of many" Cicero. This is where the conversation veers away from imaginary places where things have easy solutions and endings, and gets frustrating. We are trying to prevent both crime in the surburbias, and violence against criminal youths. We are also saying that next time, we should be quick to call the police instead of talking to suspicious people, and that we have to protect kids from people trying to enforce the law.
What should have been done instead of shooting the kid? What should have been done instead of talking to the kid? The first question left Zimmerman with only death as a remaining option, so many of our goals in wanting to punish him are unfair and illogical. The second question is resolved by calling the cops every time we see a black guy at night, or by gutting the rights of neighborhood watch volunteers, which will turn entire neighborhoods into Zimmermans, or into
Lara Logans.
I don't have solutions, but it's plain that the solutions presented by the lib media won't work.
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Regardless of my difference of opinion with Mr. Horowitz, I believe he was wronged and is owed an apology. Demand one to him from Debs [email protected] .
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http://weaselzippers.us/2013/07/10/unreal-documents-show-doj-helped-organize-and-support-anti-zimmerman-protests-including-al-sharptons/
(daily caller source)
Let it be said that I can empathize with the desire to feel frustration with anyone attacking Zimmerman, as this case and the media crimes, including posting his SIN number on air, are an affront to justice.
Lying to achieve justice is a twisted ironic affront to it, though.
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David u should hire me, I defended you from the beginning. Amen
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Amazing that people think they are God and can determine that someone is lying. Horowitz... what a disappointment.
According to Debbie Schlussel he still supports the Black Panthers. Debbie has been right about most of the faces in the so-called conservative movement, such as Scamela Nazi Geller.
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According to Debbie Schlussel he still supports the Black Panthers. Debbie has been right about most of the faces in the so-called conservative movement, such as Scamela Nazi Geller.
You only wish you have accomplished as much as Pamela Geller has. Jealousy distorts your vision.
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Well, it seems like a fair response from David. Perhaps we rushed to judgement and Debbie wasn't careful enough with her wording. I would like to see how she responds to these statements.
Is it really THE David Horowitz posting here? If so, I am happy he joined and felt it worthwhile to clear his name in these halls. That being said, I kind of suspect it may simply be one of his followers who joined under his name and just pasted the response here from somewhere David wrote it. Anyone know if this appears anywhere else?
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Well, it seems like a fair response from David. Perhaps we rushed to judgement and Debbie wasn't careful enough with her wording. I would like to see how she responds to these statements.
Is it really THE David Horowitz posting here? If so, I am happy he joined and felt it worthwhile to clear his name in these halls. That being said, I kind of suspect it may simply be one of his followers who joined under his name and just pasted the response here from somewhere David wrote it. Anyone know if this appears anywhere else?
I have found the exact same text on the JDL UK facebook page.
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I sent "David" a private message asking if he was *the* David Horowitz of Front Page Magazine. I never received a reply.
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You only wish you have accomplished as much as Pamela Geller has. Jealousy distorts your vision.
בס''ד
Pamela Geller has never accomplished anything. The fact that she attacks JTF to try to make herself "respectable" proves she is a big phony.
It would be nice if we got a little loyalty from our own members when our organization is unfairly attacked.
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בס''ד
Muman, your remarks are way out of line.
Pamela Geller has never accomplished anything. The fact that she attacks JTF to try to make herself "respectable" proves she is a big phony.
It would be nice if we got a little loyalty from our own members when our organization is unfairly attacked.
What was the nature of this attack. From what I heard she 'disassociated' from JTF which I can understand. There are reasons why some people may not want to be linked with our organization and as long as they don't besmirch JTF and only don't want to be associated, I can cut them slack. I explained this in a previous post.
It is incorrect to say that Pamela has not accomplished anything. All one needs to do is do a google search or a youtube search and you will find that she is involved with a heck of a lot of anti-Islam projects including an ad campaign on buses and subways, and she has received international press along with Robert Spencer in advancing the cause of alerting the masses to the evils of Islam.
While I think JTF has a great message, I don't think it is as 'mainstream' as Pamela Geller who gets invited to speak all over the western world. In the arsenal of getting the message out about Islam I find Pamella Geller to be an Excellent source for this. She doesn't come off as extreme, and this is why I think she would not want to be associated with us. I am not famous and I don't expect to be famous, thus I don't think my involvement with this forum will detract from my ability to make a living.
I know many people who are not quite Kahanists who agree with Pamela and this is why I support her work.
Not to contradict your statement Chaim, but maybe you are not aware of the projects Pamela is involved with:
Anti Ground-Zero mosque work
Geller and Robert Spencer co-founded Stop Islamization of America.[10] In May 2010, they began a strong campaign against the proposed Park51 Islamic community center and mosque, which Geller has referred to as the "Ground Zero Mega Mosque".[35][36] She says that Park51 is viewed by Muslims as a "triumphal" monument built on "conquered land". She also appeared on a number of cable news shows speaking out against the proposed Islamic community center and mosque.[16] Stop Islamization of America has sponsored ads which carry messages such as "Fatwa on Your Head?" and "Leaving Islam?" in several cities including New York City and Miami, pointing readers to a website called RefugefromIslam.com.[16][37] Geller said the ads were meant to provide resources for Muslims who were afraid to leave the religion.[37]
Geller first blogged in Atlas Shrugs about the proposed New York mosque in reaction to coverage in The New York Times on December 8, 2009.[38][39] On December 21, she again blogged on the subject, referring to it as "Mosque at Ground Zero" and calling it "a stab in the eye".[40] Geller next blogged about the building on May 24, 2010, when she reported on a self-selected reader poll connected with a report in the New York Daily News, urging her readers to vote in it. This is when she first used the phrase "Mega Mosque at Ground Zero".[41][42]
Her pro-Israel anti-Islam agenda:
In an interview, Geller said "I have no problem with Islam. I have a problem with political Islam."[8] Rabbi Michael White and Jerome Davidson, denouncing Geller as an anti-Muslim bigot, opposed her presentation at a Long Island Synagogue. Caroline Glick argues that they are unfair to Geller's selective opposition to jihadi and her sympathy for their Muslim victims as well as non-Muslim victims.[27] Charles Jacobs notes that Geller takes aim at "radical Islam," comes to the defense of victims of honor killings, and deals with Islamist antisemitism which the ADL and SPLC fail to address.[28] Cathy Young, however, faults Geller for failing to hold that Islam can be reformed or evolve into a moderate religion.[29]
In 2008, Geller co-wrote an editorial for Arutz Sheva expressing her distaste for fellow Jews who are not politically conservative:
It galls me that the Jews I fight for are self-destructive, suicidal even. Here in America (and the world over), Israel's real friends are in the Republican Party and yet over 80% of American Jews are Democrats. I don't get it. The conventional wisdom on the Left is that Israel is an oppressor and her actions are worse than the world's most depraved and dangerous regimes. Chomsky, Finkelstein, Soros – these men are the killers.[30]
She encouraged Israel to "stand loud and proud. Give up nothing. Turn over not a pebble. For every rocket fired, drop a MOAB. Take back Gaza. Secure Judea and Samaria. Stop buying Haaretz. Throw leftists bums out."[30] She is an ardent Zionist.[31]
She co-authored a book with Spencer, The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration's War on America, with a foreword by former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John R. Bolton, which was published in July 2010.[3] The book criticizes the Obama administration's treatment of the free-market system, freedom of speech, and foreign policy.
She is also a contributor to the conservative magazine Human Events.[32]
She is a supporter of the English Defence League (EDL) saying: "I share the EDL's goals ... We need to encourage rational, reasonable groups that oppose the Islamisation of the west."[33][24][34] In June 2013, she was scheduled to speak at an EDL rally but was barred from entering Britain by a Home Office ruling that describes her as having established "anti-Muslim hate groups".[9] Geller called the decision "a striking blow against freedom ... The nation that gave the world the Magna Carta is dead." Hope not Hate, which led a campaign to ban her, applauded the decision as a proper limit to "unfettered free speech".[9]
Her blog:
The name of Geller's website and blog Atlas Shrugs is a reference to novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged.[1][24] Geller calls Rand "the greatest philosopher in human history". She says her blog and its purpose are "clearly defined by Rand's philosophy".[48] The blog concentrates on what Geller perceives to be a violent threat to the United States by Islamist extremists and liberal politicians.[49][non-primary source needed]
As of October 2010, the blog was receiving 150,000 unique visitors a month.[1]
In 2006, when thousands of Muslims worldwide protested – sometimes violently – over cartoons of the Islamic prophet Muhammad printed in a Danish newspaper,[1][50][51][52][53] Geller posted the cartoons on her blog,[1][54] and its hits increased dramatically to tens of thousands.[1]
NPR reported that in 2008, for Atlas Shrugs, she examined lists of contributions given to Barack Obama's presidential campaign. Others, including The New York Times and The Washington Post, then did the same.[55] Contributors with the names "Es Ech", "Doodad Pro", and similar names turned up, and a conservative activist said he donated to Obama's campaign using the name Osama bin Laden.[55]
In November 2008, she captured a conversation by Representative Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) on video, and posted it on YouTube.[56] In it, after prefacing his remarks by saying he had "no personal knowledge" of the matter and his statement was merely his "guess", he went on to say that Obama "didn’t have the political courage to want to make the statement of walking out" of Trinity United Church of Christ when he realized that Rev. Jeremiah Wright was "a nut" and "lunatic", because "you don’t walk out of a church with 8,000 members in your district".[56][57][58] After Geller released the video, Nadler said: "I made a thoughtless comment yesterday which does not reflect the way I feel about Barack Obama".[57][58]
Also in 2008 Geller posted a letter saying that Malcolm X had impregnated Ann Dunham, Barack Obama's mother. After the theory was posted, the conspiracy theory gained notoriety and led Keith Olbermann to label her "the worst person in the world" during the eponymous segment of Countdown with Keith Olbermann.[19]
The blog was among the first on November 5, 2009, to opine that the Fort Hood shooting was a "Muslim terror attack."[49] Geller later noted that the recent Pentagon report into the Fort Hood shooting did not mention possible religious motivations behind the attack, and argued that self-imposed censorship is hurting U.S. understanding of the wars it is engaged in.[59] She said: "When nowhere in that document was Islam or Jihad mentioned, then Houston, we have a problem. People need to understand what is the motivation."[59]
So while she may not be JTF material, I am willing to co-exist with her without detracting from her good works...
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I would defend JTF to her if I could talk with her.... If she 'attacked' JTF I would have an issue, but I think she was trying to distance herself from us I could forgive her. Even if she said we were 'extreme' I could excuse her.
But I will defend JTF against any attacks.
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Chaim,
Have you ever considered writing a book? I believe you have been asked a number of times but I can't recall hearing whether you have started a manuscript or not. I believe if you published a book and got some more exposure in the media, you could have a higher profile than Pamella. I think it is not too hard to get a book published today (either self-published or via a publishing house). I have a friend in my minyan who has a book which is sold on Amazon.com and he could help with advice on how to publish your book.
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See this discussion for when the EDL / JTF flap happened in 2011...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php?topic=56978.0
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I would defend JTF to her if I could talk with her.... If she 'attacked' JTF I would have an issue, but I think she was trying to distance herself from us I could forgive her. Even if she said we were 'extreme' I could excuse her.
But I will defend JTF against any attacks.
Quit making excuses for this whore. Her condemnation of JTF is deplorable. She is a self-serving opportunist with no real principles who has chosen the popular path in order to get in with the "conservative" establishment and be a talking head on Fox News. This whore still refers to Islam as "radical."
As far as her accomplishments are concerned, she makes a lot of noise ultimately signifying nothing.
Chaim,
Have you ever considered writing a book? I believe you have been asked a number of times but I can't recall hearing whether you have started a manuscript or not. I believe if you published a book and got some more exposure in the media, you could have a higher profile than Pamella. I think it is not too hard to get a book published today (either self-published or via a publishing house). I have a friend in my minyan who has a book which is sold on Amazon.com and he could help with advice on how to publish your book.
Time constraints.
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Quit making excuses for this whore. Her condemnation of JTF is deplorable. She is a self-serving opportunist with no real principles who has chosen the popular path in order to get in with the "conservative" establishment and be a talking head on Fox News. This whore still refers to Islam as "radical."
As far as her accomplishments are concerned, she makes a lot of noise ultimately signifying nothing.
Time constraints.
What exactly is this condemnation? In the thread from 2011 it appears that she basically didn't think it was good idea for EDL to work with JTF. Was this 'condemnation' published? If so could you provide a link?
I really see this as a bunch of sour grapes... To deny that she has made an influence on the discussion of islam is simply delusional.
And I just don't get some people here. By praising others we do not detract from Chaims importance. I certainly believe Chaim has a great message, and his work is stellar, but I also support others and I am not ashamed of doing so. I believe Pamelas message is better suited towards women (those who I have turned on to Pamela have accepted the message fully).
There is no one-size-fits-all spokesperson who will influence everyone. Pamela and Robert certainly have done great work (the anti ground zero mosque got a lot of attention, so too the billboards on buses) and I do not regret supporting them.
This should not make my support for JTF any less... Unless you judge me with short-sighted judgment.
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Just to make a point here are some media coverage of her efforts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10N3H_bdb7Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovDUXhDzq4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFXOTK8b8Jg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qdz6BVDiSc
Now I think JTF youtube videos are nice.... But how about putting more JTF effort into public advertisements, publishing books and pamphlets, and doing media interviews... I believe Chaim could be even greater than Pamela if only the right Public Relations efforts were made.
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What exactly is this condemnation? In the thread from 2011 it appears that she basically didn't think it was good idea for EDL to work with JTF. Was this 'condemnation' published? If so could you provide a link?
I really see this as a bunch of sour grapes... To deny that she has made an influence on the discussion of islam is simply delusional.
And I just don't get some people here. By praising others we do not detract from Chaims importance. I certainly believe Chaim has a great message, and his work is stellar, but I also support others and I am not ashamed of doing so. I believe Pamelas message is better suited towards women (those who I have turned on to Pamela have accepted the message fully).
There is no one-size-fits-all spokesperson who will influence everyone. Pamela and Robert certainly have done great work (the anti ground zero mosque got a lot of attention, so too the billboards on buses) and I do not regret supporting them.
This should not make my support for JTF any less... Unless you judge me with short-sighted judgment.
I'm only judging Pamela Geller. Not you. If you want to support her. Fine. Whatever.
I will continue to condemn her though if she is mentioned on this forum. She should of kept her mouth shut concerning JTF.
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I'm only judging Pamela Geller. Not you. If you want to support her. Fine. Whatever.
I will continue to condemn her though if she is mentioned on this forum. She should of kept her mouth shut concerning JTF.
I respect your decision also. I would of course have been happier if she fully accepted the JTF message and turned people in her audience onto the JTF forum... I may attempt to influence her if I could get a hold of her email... Maybe I will check out her blog which I must admit I have never visited.
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As far as her accomplishments are concerned, she makes a lot of noise ultimately signifying nothing.
Paraphrasing the best line in MacBeth.
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What exactly is this condemnation? In the thread from 2011 it appears that she basically didn't think it was good idea for EDL to work with JTF. Was this 'condemnation' published? If so could you provide a link?
I really see this as a bunch of sour grapes... To deny that she has made an influence on the discussion of islam is simply delusional.
And I just don't get some people here. By praising others we do not detract from Chaims importance. I certainly believe Chaim has a great message, and his work is stellar, but I also support others and I am not ashamed of doing so. I believe Pamelas message is better suited towards women (those who I have turned on to Pamela have accepted the message fully).
There is no one-size-fits-all spokesperson who will influence everyone. Pamela and Robert certainly have done great work (the anti ground zero mosque got a lot of attention, so too the billboards on buses) and I do not regret supporting them.
This should not make my support for JTF any less... Unless you judge me with short-sighted judgment.
Why better suited towards women? You make it sound like women are so stupid they need to have their messages wrapped up in a leopard skin outfit.
I think Pamela Geller looks so unprofessional, that I stop listening when I see her.
You also make the forum members sound like a bunch of sour grapes. Did you ever think that they have an opinion of Pamela Geller, and are not just defending Chaim and JTF, based on her actions? What is wrong with defending JTF anyway? They do hard work....without accolades.
It always sounds like you have sour grapes when it comes to Chaim and JTF.
Like you are a bit above it all. I'm sure we all support others and are all entitled to our own opinions.
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What exactly is this condemnation? In the thread from 2011 it appears that she basically didn't think it was good idea for EDL to work with JTF. Was this 'condemnation' published? If so could you provide a link?
I really see this as a bunch of sour grapes... To deny that she has made an influence on the discussion of islam is simply delusional.There is no one-size-fits-all spokesperson who will influence everyone. Pamela and Robert certainly have done great work (the anti ground zero mosque got a lot of attention, so too the billboards on buses) and I do not regret supporting them.
You got amnesia and we have to remind you exactly what she did every time the subject comes up? Hasn't this already been hashed out here numerous times? Even between me and you personally?
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muman, I agree with you that Pamela Geller has done plenty of good with her efforts. Sadly though, she used horrific judgment with her comments regarding JTF and by not giving Orly Taitz the opportunity to speak at the alternative 2013 CPAC Convention. Orly Taitz's message and information regarding the cover ups with BHO's birth certificate and related matters should be an extremely high priority by Conservatives and others who want to save the U.S, Israel, and Western Civilization from epic disaster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awY26-jX4hM
In April I attended Pamela Geller's speaking appearance at Chabad of Great Neck and the rally in Mineola that afternoon not because of defending Geller but because of the threat of the combination of Islam's continuing influence and the Leftists that welcome/ promote Islam. Including deformed " rabbis", especially the hideous Jerome Davidson of Great Neck and Michael White of Roslyn Heights. I had a verbal confirmation with the latter a couple of years ago. He's an Obama supporter who supports our enemies in Judea and Samaria.
In 2010 I met Pamela Geller at a Candidates Fprum. I bought her book, and asked her to sign the book. At that time I had a very favorable opinion of Geller. Everything changed when she turned on JTF. With her reaction to Orly Taitz reinforcement that this isn't the person/ leader I thought was the case in 2010. While Geller indirectly changed the direction of my life because of who I met at the candidates forum in 2010, she proved to be a disappointment. I expected better.
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You got amnesia and we have to remind you exactly what she did every time the subject comes up? Hasn't this already been hashed out here numerous times? Even between me and you personally?
Look at the thread I posted when this first came up. Apparently this paragraph in an AmericanThinker article is what led to this argument. It appears to me that Pamela was not in favor of EDL forming an alliance with JTF. Is this not the case?
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/smearing_geller_on_perry.html
Jawad then spends the rest of his piece on a tangent, attacking me over the English Defence League. What this has to do with Rick Perry, only Aymenn Jawad can tell you - but it reveals that the real agenda of his piece is not to defend Rick Perry at all. As for the EDL, my position has been consistent from the beginning: I supported them insofar as they fought for freedom and human rights, and rejected all racism, anti-Semitism, neofascism, and the like, I supported them. That goes for every group and individual on the planet. Roberta Moore (Jawad doesn't even have her name right) made one inquiry to the JTF back in February. When I heard about it, I immediately condemned it and Moore withdrew the idea. An alliance was never made. Jawad is trying to make hay over something that did not happen which shows how desperate he is to make a case, any case, even a dishonest one. Smoke and mirrors.
Is it because of this that members here are denigrating Geller? And could you please provide me a link to the discussion between you and I concerning this, as I have no recollection of discussing Geller with you.
Apparently Spiraling Leopard spoke with Roberta Moore and informed us that Pamela doesn't think Chaim is a 'terrorist'.
Roberta told me that Pamela said to her that Chaim is not a terrorist.
And he later explained:
From what I understand she thought it to be a bad idea for JTF and EDL to work together.
So, does Spiraling Leopard have correct information or not? It seems to me that the problem was that Pamela thought EDL and JTF collaborating would be a bad idea.
Is there something else I am missing concerning a 'diss' on her part?
In closing I have to re-assert that I was not in favor of an alliance with EDL as there were questions about whether antisemitism existed in that organization. And I don't know if my questions were ever answered.
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Eb22, here's what so those so-called libturd "rabbis" wrote about Geller:
http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial-opinion/opinion/hate-speech-has-no-place-synagogue
We write as rabbis devoted both to our faith community and to human rights for all peoples. We were disheartened to learn that the Great Neck Synagogue has invited Pamela Geller to speak on April 14. Geller has a long track record of hateful and virulently anti-Muslim views that seek to divide American Muslims and Jews, rather than unite them.
Both the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League have designated Geller’s “Stop Islamization of America” organization as a hate group. As was recently reported in the Jewish Week, Etzion Neuer, director of community service and policy for the ADL’s New York region, said that Geller “under the guise of fighting radical Islam, absolutely demonizes an entire religion. In directing her rhetoric at the entire Islamic faith, she fuels anti-Islamic bigotry. Geller doesn’t do us any favors,” he continued. “She muddies the waters because she hands the platform to the extremists in our midst. Instead of thoughtful, fact-based dialogue on the issues, we get incendiary rhetoric and xenophobia.”
We cherish our relationships and friendships within the local Muslim community. Both Temple Beth El of Great Neck and Temple Sinai of Roslyn share deep and abiding connections with the Islamic Center of Long Island. Our communities have broken bread together, studied together, engaged in social action projects together, and our children have learned from each other as well. The local Muslim community adds immeasurably to Long Island’s vitality, and we are blessed by their commitment to the betterment of our society. Their presence among us affirms the essence of America’s greatness, a nation founded on the principles of democratic pluralism.
We state unequivocally that Geller’s inflammatory rhetoric does not represent us or the great majority of Jews in Great Neck and on Long Island. Hate speech has no place in synagogues. Synagogues should be places for worship, positive dialogue and reasoned political debate. The right of free speech is vitally important, but Geller crosses the line from political to hate speech. In sharp contrast, Judaism teaches us to respect the traditions and values of other faiths.
Last fall the group T’ruah: The Rabbinic Call for Human Rights (formerly Rabbis For Human Rights-North America) echoed that sentiment with its effective New York City subway ad campaign that countered Geller’s offensive anti-Muslim subway posters. T’ruah’s message challenged: “In the choice between love and hate, choose love. Help stop bigotry against our Muslim neighbors.”
We share T’ruah’s vision, reflecting our faith’s mandate to work for understanding, unity and peace among all humanity. Geller’s messages seek to divide peoples, and fail to acknowledge that even with significant political differences, Jews and Muslims are working to build the world of justice and compassion that both faiths demand. Rather than trying to denigrate a diverse community and rich tradition, we must find ways of respecting one another and working together on shared concerns.
At this season of the year following the Passover festival, Jews study a tractate of the Talmud called Ethics of the Fathers. We are mindful of Hillel’s enduring words in the opening chapter: “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?” The time is now to stand – for ourselves, for our fellow citizens, for our common humanity and kinship.
We hope Great Neck Synagogue leaders will take a hard look at their decision and ask themselves why they are giving a platform to someone who has devoted her life to defaming fellow Americans of a different Abrahamic religion.
Rabbi Michael White is the Senior Rabbi at Temple Sinai of Roslyn. Rabbi Jerome Davidson is Rabbi Emeritus of Temple Beth-El of Great Neck and teaches at the Hebrew Union College, New York City.
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Now imagine if they were to ever hear Chaim speak. They would probably have a heart attack.
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muman, I agree with you that Pamela Geller has done plenty of good with her efforts. Sadly though, she used horrific judgment with her comments regarding JTF and by not giving Orly Taitz the opportunity to speak at the alternative 2013 CPAC Convention. Orly Taitz's message and information regarding the cover ups with BHO's birth certificate and related matters should be an extremely high priority by Conservatives and others who want to save the U.S, Israel, and Western Civilization from epic disaster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awY26-jX4hM
In April I attended Pamela Geller's speaking appearance at Chabad of Great Neck and the rally in Mineola that afternoon not because of defending Geller but because of the threat of the combination of Islam's continuing influence and the Leftists that welcome/ promote Islam. Including deformed " rabbis", especially the hideous Jerome Davidson of Great Neck and Michael White of Roslyn Heights. I had a verbal confirmation with the latter a couple of years ago. He's an Obama supporter who supports our enemies in Judea and Samaria.
In 2010 I met Pamela Geller at a Candidates Fprum. I bought her book, and asked her to sign the book. At that time I had a very favorable opinion of Geller. Everything changed when she turned on JTF. With her reaction to Orly Taitz reinforcement that this isn't the person/ leader I thought was the case in 2010. While Geller indirectly changed the direction of my life because of who I met at the candidates forum in 2010, she proved to be a disappointment. I expected better.
Thank you eb22, and I can understand why some here may not support her.
If I find that she has a deep rooted hatred of JTF and what we are trying to do, then I may change my opinion.
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Lisa, thanks for sharing the article. This article helps illustrate why it was essential for me to be at the two events in Nassau County that day.
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Thank you eb22, and I can understand why some here may not support her.
If I find that she has a deep rooted hatred of JTF and what we are trying to do, then I may change my opinion.
muman, for what it's worth I can understand why people would still support Pamela Geller. I'm not going to condemn her because she takes high risks in the effort to point out many dangers of Islam. Yet, from my point of view there are people that are far worth more supporting than Geller.
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Lisa,
That article makes me want to hurl on those 'rabbis'...
I was so please to hear that the Chabad of Great Neck invited her to speak...
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Debbie's crazy for criticizing David Horowitz.
Horowitz is one of Israel's biggest supporters.
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Horowitz is one of Israel's biggest supporters.
So that means he can never be wrong?
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Look at the thread I posted when this first came up. Apparently this paragraph in an AmericanThinker article is what led to this argument. It appears to me that Pamela was not in favor of EDL forming an alliance with JTF. Is this not the case?
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/smearing_geller_on_perry.html
Is it because of this that members here are denigrating Geller? And could you please provide me a link to the discussion between you and I concerning this, as I have no recollection of discussing Geller with you.
Apparently Spiraling Leopard spoke with Roberta Moore and informed us that Pamela doesn't think Chaim is a 'terrorist'.
And he later explained:
So, does Spiraling Leopard have correct information or not? It seems to me that the problem was that Pamela thought EDL and JTF collaborating would be a bad idea.
Is there something else I am missing concerning a 'diss' on her part?
In closing I have to re-assert that I was not in favor of an alliance with EDL as there were questions about whether antisemitism existed in that organization. And I don't know if my questions were ever answered.
Muman,
Geller didn't want EDL working with us, not because she had problems with EDL but because she had problems with us! You honestly don't get that?
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Muman,
Geller didn't want EDL working with us, not because she had problems with EDL but because she had problems with us! You honestly don't get that?
How much did she really have to help on that front?
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Muman,
Geller didn't want EDL working with us, not because she had problems with EDL but because she had problems with us! You honestly don't get that?
If you read my explanation you will see that I cut Geller some slack on that. I can understand if she doesn't want to be associated with JTF. There is a thing called 'public relations' which needs to be played by people like Geller who want a platform in the 'mainstream media'. Once someone gets a reputation as a hater, it is difficult for the MSM to allow them to have a voice on their platform.
We all know that JTF has a reputation and for some, even those I talk to, there is still a stigma with the entire Kahanist viewpoint. So I am willing to use what some may call 'Jewish Indirection' and avoid talking about Kahane and our philisophy directly, but indirectly in a manner which may ultimately bring them to understand the JTF view. This is , according to my opinion, where the Gellers and others come in. I am speaking from a little experience exposing more center-right people to move further to the right, almost into our camp.
So maybe I am not as uncompromising as Chaim is on issues. But I believe it is possible to work with Jews to bring them to understanding our enemies exist, and what they are trying to do to Israel and America. This is why I appreciate Gellers work.
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If you read my explanation you will see that I cut Geller some slack on that. I can understand if she doesn't want to be associated with JTF. There is a thing called 'public relations' which needs to be played by people like Geller who want a platform in the 'mainstream media'. Once someone gets a reputation as a hater, it is difficult for the MSM to allow them to have a voice on their platform.
We all know that JTF has a reputation and for some, even those I talk to, there is still a stigma with the entire Kahanist viewpoint. So I am willing to use what some may call 'Jewish Indirection' and avoid talking about Kahane and our philisophy directly, but indirectly in a manner which may ultimately bring them to understand the JTF view. This is , according to my opinion, where the Gellers and others come in. I am speaking from a little experience exposing more center-right people to move further to the right, almost into our camp.
So maybe I am not as uncompromising as Chaim is on issues. But I believe it is possible to work with Jews to bring them to understanding our enemies exist, and what they are trying to do to Israel and America. This is why I appreciate Gellers work.
I don't think the concept of public relations eludes them. Selling out JTF is still what she did, and the loss of potential value if she had supported JTF has to be measured against the value in terms of counter-jihad she provides now.
She does provide a benefit, and essentially her message tries to be clean and fit in with what is politically correct so it can become establishment, but she lied about this forum and said that this forum was a violent forum, which is not true. I got banned for making a gun joke [with a hint of indirect threat].
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Many people who know Zimmerman says he is not racist, he has mentored and taught all different races. This is about Self-Defense!
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Many people who know Zimmerman says he is not racist, he has mentored and taught all different races. This is about Self-Defense!
Lol I thought you were posting on the wrong topic for a sec.
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Does anyone know if Pamela Geller has made any statements in regards to Rabbi Kahane zt'l?
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Does anyone know if Pamela Geller has made any statements in regards to Rabbi Kahane zt'l?
No. But Debbie Schlussel has written about meeting him, and how what he warned about always came true.