JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Irish Zionist on April 30, 2014, 06:37:19 AM
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A shame The Jewish People didn't make that statement.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180097#.U2DR61cVCYQ
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Is anybody surprised?
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Never heard of this camel "Tawfiq Tirawi".
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In response, Israel has yielded to ayrabs and delivered remains of 3 suicide bombers to PA to be reburied there. Among them, a beast who perpetrated the Sbarro massacre. This happened last night. When this madness stops?
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This is why I don't make aliyah.. Israelistan is a self-hating nation that more or less is under the power of the European Nazis and Islamofascists. The country is ruled by crooked leaders and bleeding heart self-hating Jewish liberals and they don't have the chutzpah anymore to stand up for themselves and be a proud nation.
I am amazed at how many Jews look down on me when I talk about being a Kahanist or standing up for myself or anything to do with vigilance. The answer always is about negotiations, let the government handle us, we need peace, etc .. The typical response of most Jews is that Muslims are good people and that we need to find a way for peace, etc, etc.
The low birth rate of Jews in Israel is also a major cause of concern. Israel is so concerned about having women fighting in the military , but stress put on Israeil women takes away their desire to produce families and be mothers. Sadly, the Arab women are more feminine, homemakers, etc and will have large families, whereas Israeli girls after a hard life of serving in the military and making ends meet will maybe have a child or two if any at all. Basically, the Arabs are going to outbreed the Jews and eventually take control by share numbers. It is just a matter of time before Israel becomes an Islamic country. The Arabs don't have to fight any wars, they are doing a good enough job just by eating, sleeping ,drinking an producing lots of little Mohammads and Achmeds.
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This is why I don't make aliyah.. Israelistan is a self-hating nation that more or less is under the power of the European Nazis and Islamofascists. The country is ruled by crooked leaders and bleeding heart self-hating Jewish liberals and they don't have the chutzpah anymore to stand up for themselves and be a proud nation.
I am amazed at how many Jews look down on me when I talk about being a Kahanist or standing up for myself or anything to do with vigilance. The answer always is about negotiations, let the government handle us, we need peace, etc .. The typical response of most Jews is that Muslims are good people and that we need to find a way for peace, etc, etc.
The low birth rate of Jews in Israel is also a major cause of concern. Israel is so concerned about having women fighting in the military , but stress put on Israeil women takes away their desire to produce families and be mothers. Sadly, the Arab women are more feminine, homemakers, etc and will have large families, whereas Israeli girls after a hard life of serving in the military and making ends meet will maybe have a child or two if any at all. Basically, the Arabs are going to outbreed the Jews and eventually take control by share numbers. It is just a matter of time before Israel becomes an Islamic country. The Arabs don't have to fight any wars, they are doing a good enough job just by eating, sleeping ,drinking an producing lots of little Mohammads and Achmeds.
....actually, that's precisely the reason you SHOULD return to your ancestral home land.
If you don't, they will outnumber el yahud.
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....actually, that's precisely the reason you SHOULD return to your ancestral home land.
If you don't, they will outnumber el yahud.
I agree ChineseKahanist to a degree, but what is the point of returning to just be imprisoned and treated inferior? What is the point of returning to a place that is more reminiscent of Poland in 1939 than a land where Jews are free?
If I thought me returning to Israel would have helped make a difference or save the country, I would have been there yesterday.
Personally, I think Jews stockpiling weapons and learning fighting and defense techniques here in the USA would be a much better means of helping to protect Israel and its sovereignty than just going to Israel , being raped of all your freedoms and incarcerated in a country that is not even rreally ruled by Jews, but by imposters. Also, the cost of living is more affordable in USA. Israel is a socialist country with extremely high taxes , lower wages and outrageous cost of living. The Arabs don't mind living in squalor and get plenty of aid money to fund their large families, which Jews would never receive. However, in the USA, due to more affordable cost of living, we Jews can actually have larger families. It is much easier to have a family of 12 Jewish children here in the USA, then in Israel. Also, in USA our daughters are not forced to join the military and instead can focus on marriage and becoming mothers. Considering, any Jew born in Galut or Israel is considered a Jew, it would make no difference if we produce large Jewish families here in USA/Galut or in Israel. If we can raise larger Jewish families here in USA, which then may later immigrate to Israel, that would be even more effective. THe largest Jewish birthrate in the world, if I am not mistaken, is among Charedim in New York. Many Charedim are living outside of NYC now, because of more affordable costs to raise these large families.
Israel needs a revolution and needs the pro-Arab/Anti-Jewish government toppled. I don't know what to say, except that Jews militarizing and mobilizing themselves here in a place like USA, where they have much more freedom than in Israelistan would be more productive for the time being. When it looks like the Arabs are starting to make gains and grab the power, then it would be time for us to come together en masse and make an exodus to Israel like we did when we left the land of Mitzraim or Babylon. If we go there armed, trained and ready to fight for the liberation of our land, we will make a greater impact than moving to Israel, being stripped of our rights and freedoms and treated like 2nd class citizens in our own country.
Jews have more influence abroad than they do in their own homeland as of now.. This is truly sad.. If we get our numbers to 20,000,000 in Galut.. A mass aliyah, with freedom-minded, pro-Israel, anti-Fascist/anti-Islamic Jews would revolutionize Israel all in itself.
The problem I see is many Jews think that they are in control of Israel, when in fact Israelistan is ruled by a puppet government that is loyal to the European Anti-Jewish Nazis and Arab Oil Barrens who call the shots. If Israelistan was ruled by a Jewish government, the Arabs would be on their knees begging for mercy, the Europeans would keep their mouths shut and Iran would be a pile of rubble. Sadly, its the other way around.
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Russian Goyim are more wanted here than real Jews.
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Let's just give up... I cannot believe what I am reading here...
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I agree ChineseKahanist to a degree, but what is the point of returning to just be imprisoned and treated inferior? What is the point of returning to a place that is more reminiscent of Poland in 1939 than a land where Jews are free?
If I thought me returning to Israel would have helped make a difference or save the country, I would have been there yesterday.
Personally, I think Jews stockpiling weapons and learning fighting and defense techniques here in the USA would be a much better means of helping to protect Israel and its sovereignty than just going to Israel , being raped of all your freedoms and incarcerated in a country that is not even rreally ruled by Jews, but by imposters. Also, the cost of living is more affordable in USA. Israel is a socialist country with extremely high taxes , lower wages and outrageous cost of living. The Arabs don't mind living in squalor and get plenty of aid money to fund their large families, which Jews would never receive. However, in the USA, due to more affordable cost of living, we Jews can actually have larger families. It is much easier to have a family of 12 Jewish children here in the USA, then in Israel. Also, in USA our daughters are not forced to join the military and instead can focus on marriage and becoming mothers. Considering, any Jew born in Galut or Israel is considered a Jew, it would make no difference if we produce large Jewish families here in USA/Galut or in Israel. If we can raise larger Jewish families here in USA, which then may later immigrate to Israel, that would be even more effective. THe largest Jewish birthrate in the world, if I am not mistaken, is among Charedim in New York. Many Charedim are living outside of NYC now, because of more affordable costs to raise these large families.
Israel needs a revolution and needs the pro-Arab/Anti-Jewish government toppled. I don't know what to say, except that Jews militarizing and mobilizing themselves here in a place like USA, where they have much more freedom than in Israelistan would be more productive for the time being. When it looks like the Arabs are starting to make gains and grab the power, then it would be time for us to come together en masse and make an exodus to Israel like we did when we left the land of Mitzraim or Babylon. If we go there armed, trained and ready to fight for the liberation of our land, we will make a greater impact than moving to Israel, being stripped of our rights and freedoms and treated like 2nd class citizens in our own country.
Jews have more influence abroad than they do in their own homeland as of now.. This is truly sad.. If we get our numbers to 20,000,000 in Galut.. A mass aliyah, with freedom-minded, pro-Israel, anti-Fascist/anti-Islamic Jews would revolutionize Israel all in itself.
The problem I see is many Jews think that they are in control of Israel, when in fact Israelistan is ruled by a puppet government that is loyal to the European Anti-Jewish Nazis and Arab Oil Barrens who call the shots. If Israelistan was ruled by a Jewish government, the Arabs would be on their knees begging for mercy, the Europeans would keep their mouths shut and Iran would be a pile of rubble. Sadly, its the other way around.
I see a few problems here.
* Try telling Chaim not to bother moving to Israel
* You want to have large families here hoping their children will move to Israel instead of being comfortable. Is this realistic?
* The promised land is full of evil people and lazy people. So you refuse to move there. You want to stay in America and be comfortable.
* You don't like the way they would treat you. You think there's no difference between there and being on the nazi train.
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I understand the sentiment completely. The news is full of bad news for the Jewish state and at times it seems hopeless. We read about righteous Jews being evicted from their homes, their homes destroyed by the so-called Jewish state, and the arabs are running around desecrating our Holy places.... I am so angry when I think of the way it is...
But we must always look forward to making the move to Israel. We must always think about where we will live, learn Hebrew to prepare to make Aliyah, and work to remove the evil leftists who are assisting the destroyers of our heritage.
I will not give up (even though at times I feel like giving up)...
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Talmud Mesechet Berachot 10a implores us to never give up, even when the blade of a sword is against our throat:
http://halakhah.com/berakoth/berakoth_10.html
R. Hamnuna said: What is the meaning of the verse, Who is as the wise man? And who knoweth the interpretation [pesher] of a thing?30 Who is like the Holy One, blessed be He, who knew how to effect a reconciliation [pesharah] between two righteous men, Hezekiah and Isaiah? Hezekiah said: Let Isaiah come to me, for so we find that Elijah went to Ahab,31 as it says, And Elijah went to show himself unto Ahab.32 Isaiah said: Let Hezekiah come to me, for so we find that Jehoram son of Ahab went to Elisha.33 What did the Holy One, blessed be He, do? He brought sufferings upon Hezekiah and then said to Isaiah, Go visit the sick. For so it says, In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet, son of Amoz, came to him and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thy house in order, for thou shalt die and not live34 etc. What is the meaning of 'thou shalt die and not live'? Thou shalt die in this world and not live in the world to come. He said to him: Why so bad? He replied: Because you did not try to have children. He said: The reason was because I saw by the holy spirit that the children issuing from me would not be virtuous. He said to him: What have you to do with the secrets of the All-Merciful? You should have done what you were commanded, and let the Holy One, blessed be He, do that which pleases Him. He said to him: Then give me now your daughter; perhaps through your merit and mine combined virtuous children will issue from me. He replied:35 The doom has already been decreed. Said the other: Son of Amoz, finish your prophecy and go. This tradition I have from the house of my ancestor:36 Even if a sharp sword rests upon a man's neck he should not desist from prayer.37 This saying is also recorded in the names of R. Johanan and R. Eleazar: Even if a sharp sword rests on a man's neck, he should not desist from prayer, as it says, Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him.38
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I see a few problems here.
* Try telling Chaim not to bother moving to Israel
* You want to have large families here hoping their children will move to Israel instead of being comfortable. Is this realistic?
* The promised land is full of evil people and lazy people. So you refuse to move there. You want to stay in America and be comfortable.
* You don't like the way they would treat you. You think there's no difference between there and being on the nazi train.
I don't expect you to undrestand my sentiments and never thought they would be respected by everyone here. I am glad MUman can understand ..
1. Chaim was kicked out of Israel.. Does that say anything?
2. Yes it's realistic.. You would be amazed at what we Jews would do when we feel our homeland is threatened. Every Jew knows Israel is their home.. If there is enough Zionist Jews in USA, then we will have serious muscle to change Israel, rather than move their piece by piece and raise children in a land, where children are taught to hate themselves and that Arabs are better people than them.. Many Israelis grow up thinking they are the bad ones and the lifestyle in Israel cities is hardly moral, outside of Jerusalem. I hardly think my children growing up in Tel Aviv would result in them being more moral than growing up in a religious community in New York or Houston.
3. I want to stay in America, because we can build up a powerful nation of people in this land who can then help overthrow the evil that is currently plaguing Israel.. Did you forget that Israel was originally founded by immigrants from other countries?? There is nothing new about a mass migration of Jews in another country going to Israel.. But, the current Anti-Semitic/COmmunist-like government in Israel will make it hard for us to raise large, diligent Zionist families. And, if my daughter has to go train for war at the young age of 18, how can I train her to be a mother and wife? I am against the conscription of women into Israel's army and refuse to raise my daughter in a country where she must join the military!
4. Yeah, Jews are being thrown out of their homes, having their Yeshivas shot up and children turned into mince meat.. In the mean time, the Arabs have more weapons and arms and freedoms to pray and worship anywhere they like than Jews do. Jews cannot shoot dead an Arab intruder without risking being incarcerated and serving time in prison. And, this is what we call a nation ruled by Jews? A nation where we are free?? With the way the country is headed, I am thinking Israel is at as much risk of a Shoah on its own soil as it was for Jews in Europe in the 1930s. When Arabs take control of government by being voted in, they will vote Jews into death camps.. That is why we must establish large Zionist communities abroad who then will make mass migrations to help thwart what may be inevitable.
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I don't expect you to undrestand my sentiments and never thought they would be respected by everyone here. I am glad MUman can understand ..
1. Chaim was kicked out of Israel.. Does that say anything?
2. Yes it's realistic.. You would be amazed at what we Jews would do when we feel our homeland is threatened. Every Jew knows Israel is their home.. If there is enough Zionist Jews in USA, then we will have serious muscle to change Israel, rather than move their piece by piece and raise children in a land, where children are taught to hate themselves and that Arabs are better people than them.. Many Israelis grow up thinking they are the bad ones and the lifestyle in Israel cities is hardly moral, outside of Jerusalem. I hardly think my children growing up in Tel Aviv would result in them being more moral than growing up in a religious community in New York or Houston.
3. I want to stay in America, because we can build up a powerful nation of people in this land who can then help overthrow the evil that is currently plaguing Israel.. Did you forget that Israel was originally founded by immigrants from other countries?? There is nothing new about a mass migration of Jews in another country going to Israel.. But, the current Anti-Semitic/COmmunist-like government in Israel will make it hard for us to raise large, diligent Zionist families. And, if my daughter has to go train for war at the young age of 18, how can I train her to be a mother and wife? I am against the conscription of women into Israel's army and refuse to raise my daughter in a country where she must join the military!
4. Yeah, Jews are being thrown out of their homes, having their Yeshivas shot up and children turned into mince meat.. In the mean time, the Arabs have more weapons and arms and freedoms to pray and worship anywhere they like than Jews do. Jews cannot shoot dead an Arab intruder without risking being incarcerated and serving time in prison. And, this is what we call a nation ruled by Jews? A nation where we are free?? With the way the country is headed, I am thinking Israel is at as much risk of a Shoah on its own soil as it was for Jews in Europe in the 1930s. When Arabs take control of government by being voted in, they will vote Jews into death camps.. That is why we must establish large Zionist communities abroad who then will make mass migrations to help thwart what may be inevitable.
1 day (I don't know when but feel it's near) you are going to WISH you moved to Israel while you still had a chance.
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1 day (I don't know when but feel it's near) you are going to WISH you moved to Israel while you still had a chance.
Or, maybe I will be glad that I didn't go to Israel if the place erupts into flame from a self-destructive and anti-Jewish government???? Do you not think Israel can be destroyed from within?? How about reading my earlier posts.
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I don't expect you to undrestand my sentiments and never thought they would be respected by everyone here. I am glad MUman can understand ..
1. Chaim was kicked out of Israel.. Does that say anything?
2. Yes it's realistic.. You would be amazed at what we Jews would do when we feel our homeland is threatened. Every Jew knows Israel is their home.. If there is enough Zionist Jews in USA, then we will have serious muscle to change Israel, rather than move their piece by piece and raise children in a land, where children are taught to hate themselves and that Arabs are better people than them.. Many Israelis grow up thinking they are the bad ones and the lifestyle in Israel cities is hardly moral, outside of Jerusalem. I hardly think my children growing up in Tel Aviv would result in them being more moral than growing up in a religious community in New York or Houston.
3. I want to stay in America, because we can build up a powerful nation of people in this land who can then help overthrow the evil that is currently plaguing Israel.. Did you forget that Israel was originally founded by immigrants from other countries?? There is nothing new about a mass migration of Jews in another country going to Israel.. But, the current Anti-Semitic/COmmunist-like government in Israel will make it hard for us to raise large, diligent Zionist families. And, if my daughter has to go train for war at the young age of 18, how can I train her to be a mother and wife? I am against the conscription of women into Israel's army and refuse to raise my daughter in a country where she must join the military!
4. Yeah, Jews are being thrown out of their homes, having their Yeshivas shot up and children turned into mince meat.. In the mean time, the Arabs have more weapons and arms and freedoms to pray and worship anywhere they like than Jews do. Jews cannot shoot dead an Arab intruder without risking being incarcerated and serving time in prison. And, this is what we call a nation ruled by Jews? A nation where we are free?? With the way the country is headed, I am thinking Israel is at as much risk of a Shoah on its own soil as it was for Jews in Europe in the 1930s. When Arabs take control of government by being voted in, they will vote Jews into death camps.. That is why we must establish large Zionist communities abroad who then will make mass migrations to help thwart what may be inevitable.
Well, ok. Have you tried to at least visit from time to time? At least go there and try to make a difference even if its for a week or a few days.
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I agree ChineseKahanist to a degree, but what is the point of returning to just be imprisoned and treated inferior? What is the point of returning to a place that is more reminiscent of Poland in 1939 than a land where Jews are free?
If I thought me returning to Israel would have helped make a difference or save the country, I would have been there yesterday.
Personally, I think Jews stockpiling weapons and learning fighting and defense techniques here in the USA would be a much better means of helping to protect Israel and its sovereignty than just going to Israel , being raped of all your freedoms and incarcerated in a country that is not even rreally ruled by Jews, but by imposters. Also, the cost of living is more affordable in USA. Israel is a socialist country with extremely high taxes , lower wages and outrageous cost of living. The Arabs don't mind living in squalor and get plenty of aid money to fund their large families, which Jews would never receive. However, in the USA, due to more affordable cost of living, we Jews can actually have larger families. It is much easier to have a family of 12 Jewish children here in the USA, then in Israel. Also, in USA our daughters are not forced to join the military and instead can focus on marriage and becoming mothers. Considering, any Jew born in Galut or Israel is considered a Jew, it would make no difference if we produce large Jewish families here in USA/Galut or in Israel. If we can raise larger Jewish families here in USA, which then may later immigrate to Israel, that would be even more effective. THe largest Jewish birthrate in the world, if I am not mistaken, is among Charedim in New York. Many Charedim are living outside of NYC now, because of more affordable costs to raise these large families.
Israel needs a revolution and needs the pro-Arab/Anti-Jewish government toppled. I don't know what to say, except that Jews militarizing and mobilizing themselves here in a place like USA, where they have much more freedom than in Israelistan would be more productive for the time being. When it looks like the Arabs are starting to make gains and grab the power, then it would be time for us to come together en masse and make an exodus to Israel like we did when we left the land of Mitzraim or Babylon. If we go there armed, trained and ready to fight for the liberation of our land, we will make a greater impact than moving to Israel, being stripped of our rights and freedoms and treated like 2nd class citizens in our own country.
Jews have more influence abroad than they do in their own homeland as of now.. This is truly sad.. If we get our numbers to 20,000,000 in Galut.. A mass aliyah, with freedom-minded, pro-Israel, anti-Fascist/anti-Islamic Jews would revolutionize Israel all in itself.
The problem I see is many Jews think that they are in control of Israel, when in fact Israelistan is ruled by a puppet government that is loyal to the European Anti-Jewish Nazis and Arab Oil Barrens who call the shots. If Israelistan was ruled by a Jewish government, the Arabs would be on their knees begging for mercy, the Europeans would keep their mouths shut and Iran would be a pile of rubble. Sadly, its the other way around.
The next generation of Orthodox Jews will be 2 million with 14+ million being "half-jews" two million being reform and other combinations of halakhic quarter Jews and 1/8 jews that are already present here. The best place to remain Jewish would be in Israel where it is convenient and not as expensive to be Jewish. I mean meat here is 5-6 times the price if it's Kosher, Jewish schools are ridiculously priced. Honestly, I bet a big reason that we see so much assimilation is because only upper-middle class and upper class Jews can afford to live a Jewish life. There are 500,000 Jews who are living near the poverty level in the U.S. and the ridiculous high price to live a Jewish lifestyle and increasing taxes and the recession already pushes the assimilating Jewish population even further into complete assimilation
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This is why I don't make aliyah.. Israelistan is a self-hating nation that more or less is under the power of the European Nazis and Islamofascists. The country is ruled by crooked leaders and bleeding heart self-hating Jewish liberals and they don't have the chutzpah anymore to stand up for themselves and be a proud nation.
I am amazed at how many Jews look down on me when I talk about being a Kahanist or standing up for myself or anything to do with vigilance. The answer always is about negotiations, let the government handle us, we need peace, etc .. The typical response of most Jews is that Muslims are good people and that we need to find a way for peace, etc, etc.
The low birth rate of Jews in Israel is also a major cause of concern. Israel is so concerned about having women fighting in the military , but stress put on Israeil women takes away their desire to produce families and be mothers. Sadly, the Arab women are more feminine, homemakers, etc and will have large families, whereas Israeli girls after a hard life of serving in the military and making ends meet will maybe have a child or two if any at all. Basically, the Arabs are going to outbreed the Jews and eventually take control by share numbers. It is just a matter of time before Israel becomes an Islamic country. The Arabs don't have to fight any wars, they are doing a good enough job just by eating, sleeping ,drinking an producing lots of little Mohammads and Achmeds.
On the other hand, all of this was true already in Rabbi Kahane's day, and he advised all Jews to make aliyah.
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Of course its dead....Because these Radicals never wanted a solution...they just wanted a war to kill Jews, if the Jews were willing to move out of their land and appease their enemies, the muslims would have been rejoicing all the more.
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The next generation of Orthodox Jews will be 2 million with 14+ million being "half-jews" two million being reform and other combinations of halakhic quarter Jews and 1/8 jews that are already present here. The best place to remain Jewish would be in Israel where it is convenient and not as expensive to be Jewish. I mean meat here is 5-6 times the price if it's Kosher, Jewish schools are ridiculously priced. Honestly, I bet a big reason that we see so much assimilation is because only upper-middle class and upper class Jews can afford to live a Jewish life. There are 500,000 Jews who are living near the poverty level in the U.S. and the ridiculous high price to live a Jewish lifestyle and increasing taxes and the recession already pushes the assimilating Jewish population even further into complete assimilation
Actually, if you consider that wages are lower in Israel, cost of living and taxes are higher, the fact that you may pay a little more for kosher meat is irrelevant. Also, I find it hard to believe that Kosher meat is cheaper in Israel, because a lot of meat in Israel is imported, whereas in the USA it is locally sourced. I had a friend from Poland and she says she was living very comfortably in Poland with her own house and car, but now that she lives in Jerusalem she works two jobs, like 10+ hours a day ,six days a week and is barely making it and has to share a small flat. She says she constantly thinks about going back to Poland, but came to Israel because she desired it so much in heart.. She also is infuriated by the fact JEws are treated like 2nd class citizens in Jerusalem and Arabs have more rights. She says there is many areas of the city she is not allowed to go unless she can prove she is of Arab origin. Last I check, Jerusalem was a Jewish city, so why are Jews restricted to be anywhere in the city? ? ?
I'm not trying to convince people to not make Aliyah.. If you make Aliyah more power to you! What I am saying is, don't give up your US Passport. There is advantages of having citizenship for both countries.. I hate to say it, but Israel's freedom, liberty and society is in jeopardy and trying to save the country from the inside I am sadly thinking may prove futile. The fact that a majority of the Jewish population is disarmed and a corrupt, anti-Jewish government rules the country makes me hardly think of it as a Zionist state, but rather as a Puppet government for the EU and Arab League.
It's true that it costs a lot to live as a Jew, send your kids to Jewish school, etc etc.. However, if survival is of the most importance, we don't have to send our kids to great Jewish schools or eat the fanciest kosher meats or have $10,000 Bar Mitzvah parties at our $5,000,000 synagogues in the nicest neighborhoods in our cities. Living in the mountains of the USA actually is not that expensive and we can raise our own cattle, our own food and own enough weapons to protect our families and homes and train ourselves with them. We don't have to force our daughters to join the military and cheat them of those important years where they could focus on preparing for motherhood to raise a future Jewish generation.. Too many Israeli girls are exhausted after serving in the military and instead spend their time travelling, partying or pursuing a career than having children. Israel's dangerously low birthrate among non-Orthodox Jews will prove this point.
Also, considering the amount of half Jews , 1/4 Jews, Russian, African, Arab immigrants in Israel, to say that all Jews in Israel are "whole" Jews, if I can use that term can also be misleading.
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Im sorry for you EveryJewa44...
I will never give up on Israel. I cannot move there now, but I always keep an eye out for Job opportunities in my field (High tech computer) in Israel (and there are many good paying jobs in my field)... I also periodically look at property prices in Israel (particularly in northern Israel, like Tzfat)...
I am sure that if I make the move I will be able to support myself and my family.
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It's true that it costs a lot to live as a Jew, send your kids to Jewish school, etc etc.. However, if survival is of the most importance, we don't have to send our kids to great Jewish schools or
Huh? What kind of parent would voluntarily forego sending their children to a great Jewish school? Jewish education is essential to continuity and Jewish survival. There is no way to pay for any adequate Jewish schoool in the US unless super wealthy. The super wealthy end up paying their own kids's tuition as well as others in the school who can't afford it. They adjust how much you pay based on how much you make. But pay you will. It shouldn't cost so much but this is what private school requires unless public policy changes (good luck). You can't just "live in the mountains' either because community is also important for Jewish survival. Any basic cut of kosher meat IS more expensive than the nonkosher alternative of the same cut of meat. Period. We are not all eating super expensive cuts of meat and then complaining about costs. Frankly its insulting that you suggest this about all orthodox jews in america. It is a fact of life that eating kosher in america costs more than nonkosher.
There are benefits to living in Israel which you will not open your eyes to, and there are real, objective drawbacks to living in the US beyond the religious drawbacks.
Rabbi Kahane stressed over and over again that practicing real Judaism involves moving to Israel and doing it there.
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Huh? What kind of parent would voluntarily forego sending their children to a great Jewish school? Jewish education is essential to continuity and Jewish survival. There is no way to pay for any adequate Jewish schoool in the US unless super wealthy. The super wealthy end up paying their own kids's tuition as well as others in the school who can't afford it. They adjust how much you pay based on how much you make. But pay you will. It shouldn't cost so much but this is what private school requires unless public policy changes (good luck). You can't just "live in the mountains' either because community is also important for Jewish survival. Any basic cut of kosher meat IS more expensive than the nonkosher alternative of the same cut of meat. Period. We are not all eating super expensive cuts of meat and then complaining about costs. Frankly its insulting that you suggest this about all orthodox jews in america. It is a fact of life that eating kosher in america costs more than nonkosher.
There are benefits to living in Israel which you will not open your eyes to, and there are real, objective drawbacks to living in the US beyond the religious drawbacks.
Rabbi Kahane stressed over and over again that practicing real Judaism involves moving to Israel and doing it there.
Kosher meat isn't any cheaper here in Israel,however you can get your children educated for free here as most religious schools are state funded.
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Huh? What kind of parent would voluntarily forego sending their children to a great Jewish school?
The parent who is being hunted in the woods or the one who was thrown out of his home and had it given to Arabs.
Jewish education is essential to continuity and Jewish survival.
So are Jewish people.. If we keep getting exterminated, those Jewish schools will be quite empty.
There is no way to pay for any adequate Jewish schoool in the US unless super wealthy. The super wealthy end up paying their own kids's tuition as well as others in the school who can't afford it. They adjust how much you pay based on how much you make. But pay you will. It shouldn't cost so much but this is what private school requires unless public policy changes (good luck).
If Jews would stop being subjects to bureaucracy, which we seem to be great at.. Look at Israel with its bloated bureaucratic government and multitude of parties.. That's an example of how Jews spend too much time relying on organization rather than on one another.. IF we are a community like you say, we should help each other and we can definitely do that here in USA.. As Israel's Islamic population is increasing, soon Jewish schools will be getting more expensive and Islamic schools cheaper.. Remember, Israel has one of the highest Muslim popluations, per capita in the world. If Jews would come together and move to cheaper places like Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and pull their funds together to build a school. As a matter of fact, many Orthodox Jews not have thriving communities in places like Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City where living expenses are much less and cost of education/cost of living is much more affordable than in places like New York, which is the most expensive and overtaxed state in the entire US.
How did my relatives in Belarus who were very poor manage to operate a Hebrew school? My great grandfather Efraim was a poor farmer, yet received a very good education in his shtetl.. Somehow, JEws in a modern wealthy country have no means to educate their young, because they must adhere to all standards and have their children pay for schools that are overpriced, because the schools are located in very expensive areas and have had too much money invested in things that may not be necessity, like state of the art facilities , fancy event halls , marble floors and other types of facilities/decor that are not of a necessity of a Jewish education. COlleges, schools , in general tend to waste a lot of money on unnecessary expenditures that don't benefit their students educations.
You can't just "live in the mountains' either because community is also important for Jewish survival.
yeah you can Just live in the mountains and people have been doing it for 1000s of years, including me. Community is only important if your community is not threatened with extinction.
Any basic cut of kosher meat IS more expensive than the nonkosher alternative of the same cut of meat. Period. We are not all eating super expensive cuts of meat and then complaining about costs. Frankly its insulting that you suggest this about all orthodox jews in america. It is a fact of life that eating kosher in america costs more than nonkosher.
Insulting?? Ha.. I guess I should apologize.. But, in fact, you can buy cheap kosher meat in this country, many Jews i know only will buy good quality meat.. That doesn't mean there isn't Jews eating cheap Kosher meat.. I actually think you can probably get cheaper Kosher meat in USA than in Israel.. That was my original point, but if you think meat is more expensive here, it's probably because of the type of meat you are buying.. There is so much cattle in this country and there are many Kosher organizations in USA that slaughter and certify the meat. Jews also are not the only people who eat Kosher meat in USA.
There are benefits to living in Israel which you will not open your eyes to, and there are real, objective drawbacks to living in the US beyond the religious drawbacks.
Rabbi Kahane stressed over and over again that practicing real Judaism involves moving to Israel and doing it there.
Who says I will never move to Israel??? Should I burn my American passport and renounce my citizenship?
Im sorry for you EveryJewa44...
I will never give up on Israel. I cannot move there now, but I always keep an eye out for Job opportunities in my field (High tech computer) in Israel (and there are many good paying jobs in my field)... I also periodically look at property prices in Israel (particularly in northern Israel, like Tzfat)...
I am sure that if I make the move I will be able to support myself and my family.
Don't put words in my mouth Muman.. Muman, are you in USA??? BTW.. DOn't say I have given up on Israel... Especially, coming from a guy who lives comfortably in his home in California.. I have not given up on Israel... The fact any of you here live in USA means you are not so faithful in Israel.. If you are all such good Jews why are you not in Israel??? Would you starve?
Looking for jobs??? Are you telling me with your credentials and experience you cannot get some type of job to make a living in Israel?? BS! YOu are satisfied with your lifestyle here, more than you would be in Israel or else I am thinking you would be there.. There is people who make much less money than you and have much worse jobs than you can get who live in Israel..
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EJA44,
I am not putting words in your mouth. You have been speaking Lashon Hara against Israel in this thread as bad or worse than the 10 Spies in the desert.
I have said many times I am not in Israel now, and I have pointed out that I need to be able to take care of my parents. My parents (my mother and step-father) are getting old and they do not want to make the trip to Israel. I understand where they are coming from, and with my step-dad suffering with cancer currently I cannot confront them nor force them. He needs the care from the good doctors he has currently.
I know there are good jobs for me in Israel, I receive almost daily a list of companies hiring in my field. So I have the plan to make aliyah when the time is appropriate.
I will not sit around and lament how bad things are there. I know how bad they are, and I pray daily that things will be better when I get there. I will not point out every blemish and hardship to live there, I am of the opinion that our entire life is a life of hardship. We all suffer one way or another (physically, mentally, emotionally)... And I am prepared to suffer in Israel.
Yes, I do live comfortably here in California. I do work hard and invest a lot of time and effort in my profession. And it is because of my natural ability in computer programming that I am able to live this way. Baruch Hashem, may we all utilize our skills to maximize our income.
I am not knocking you, I am not really saying what you said is not true... I am just disappointed to see a good Jew saying these kinds of things especially here.
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EJA44,
I am not putting words in your mouth. You have been speaking Lashon Hara against Israel in this thread as bad or worse than the 10 Spies in the desert.
I have said many times I am not in Israel now, and I have pointed out that I need to be able to take care of my parents. My parents (my mother and step-father) are getting old and they do not want to make the trip to Israel. I understand where they are coming from, and with my step-dad suffering with cancer currently I cannot confront them nor force them. He needs the care from the good doctors he has currently.
I know there are good jobs for me in Israel, I receive almost daily a list of companies hiring in my field. So I have the plan to make aliyah when the time is appropriate.
I will not sit around and lament how bad things are there. I know how bad they are, and I pray daily that things will be better when I get there. I will not point out every blemish and hardship to live there, I am of the opinion that our entire life is a life of hardship. We all suffer one way or another (physically, mentally, emotionally)... And I am prepared to suffer in Israel.
Yes, I do live comfortably here in California. I do work hard and invest a lot of time and effort in my profession. And it is because of my natural ability in computer programming that I am able to live this way. Baruch Hashem, may we all utilize our skills to maximize our income.
I am not knocking you, I am not really saying what you said is not true... I am just disappointed to see a good Jew saying these kinds of things especially here.
I can understand wanting to care for your family... I apologize for overlooking that.. Yes, I can understand your desire to care for your family.. However, you were saying you are always looking for a job in Israel, so I previously thought you have not made aliyah , because you stated you couldn't find a desired job.. I know that was BS, because a guy like you could probably get a better job and make more money in Israel than most native Israelis can.. Had, you originally said it was because of your parents, I would have not have criticized you.
Saying what things?? What Lashon Hara?? Saying the truth??? Do you really think my intentions for Israel are bad?? Maybe, I have more insight into the reality of the grim situation in Israel right now.. If I thought just packing my bags in moving there would make it better, I would have already done it. And, considering you and everyone else here bad mouths the leaders of Israel and the situation of Israel all the time, maybe it is you and everyone else who is speaking Lashon Hara , as well??? How is my criticism of Israel worse than many others, who are always insulting Israel's leadres, like Netanyahu, Olmert, Barak, Livni, etc... I am not saying these people don't deserve criticism, but don't lay it all on me, as I am the one who speaks Lashon Hara!!
There are hateful words to me.. To make enemies with your fellow Jew is not a good thing, Muman. I have mostly been rejected and hated by my own Jewish people anyhow.. I find that we spend so much time bickering and hating on each other, we never really solve many problems, hence why thugs like Netanyahu take control of the country and sell off our land, while we fight it out among ourselves and they laugh at us.
And, before everyone condemns me for not wanting to live in Israel and for criticizing the situation in Israel, I would like to ask what do you think I could do better in Israel there? I will lose my right to own a gun and self-defense.. I am now live among Muslims, many who have more rights and more access to weapons than myself. I am an older guy now and don't have a college degree.. I am software developer , but have taught myself and work for small family business.. THere is a good chance I will not find a job and may be homeless, having no means to work.. So, then what?? I live on welfare and suck off of the Israeli tax system and add to Israel's burden? They already have a lot of Arabs and African immigrants to support with that welfare money. Maybe they will give me a job of working as a janitor, thats great! Considering, I will be poor, have no means of self-defense and not be able to save any money, I don't see how I will make a great change. If can become an Israeli citizen and buy land there.. IF I make money in USA and then invest in the country, eventually buying a house, rather than be stuck living in a poor apartment I share with other people, I think I will do more to benfit Israel than just go there, be poor and helpless and be another crying victim you read about on the news who was thrown out of his home, was beaten by Arabs while walking to synagogue, etc.
What Israel truly needs is a revolution.. The Israeli government is ruled by Yetzer Hara because it has betrayed its own people.. As far as I can tell, Israel is under siege .. We need to reclaim our country.. The fact many of you think we are in control of our country is your own delusion.. If we were in control of our country, Rabbi Kahane would be alive today, Chaim would have not been thrown out of Israel and we would not have a "Palestinian" people harassing us day to day , bombing our towns and taking control of our homes.
Anyhow, I understand I will be hated here.. Even though I am hated by own my Jewish people for my controversial views, I know I have to love them unconditionally , even when it hurts..
What we Jews should do is what the Bielski brothers did during the Shoah, form a community in the wilderness.. Arm ourselves, build a community, harvest our own food.. Slaughter our own animals.. Why are we such weak people that we are so dependent on other people?? Why cannot we help ourselves.. We, a nation , that survived in the wilderness for 40 years.. The Jews can overcoming anything.. Why are we so helpless to think that if we don't all live in a neighborhood with great schools, kosher meat shops and a large synagogue that we will shrivel up and die.. We have preserved our heritage in the greatest times of adversities and in pagan lands.. All our creature comforts have not made us stronger people , but weaker people. We Jews have shown our greatest glory in times of peril.. Let us think back to the time of the Makabis.
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EJA44,
Let me be the first to say I don't think anyone here is 'hating' you at all.
I really enjoy being able to express these things, and while I pointed out that it could be similar to 'lashon hara' of the spies I am just saying that because I do care about you and your situation. There is no way I harbor any hatred for what you say here. Quite the opposite, your ability to communicate has impressed me and I think most people here can understand where you are coming from.
I do not share your outlook for your livelihood. If I remember some PM's we shared in the last few years, you should have accumulated a lot of practical experience in the 'small company' work you have had. I started (in my 20s) working for a small company which struggled to make payroll. But I was able to turn that experience into better opportunities because I saw demand for digital video programmers. You work in imaging (if I recall) and there is demand for people with skills in computer imaging, and if I can find some, there may be some in Israel which you would qualify for.
I do not personally know you, but my experience with you at JTF has been a joy for me. I apologize if you felt I was judging you in my replies. I only intend on keeping the spirit, the hope, and the Jewish vision going. I do not suggest it is easy... And I don't think it is wrong to point out the failings in the Israel government (so-called 'leaders' like Bibi must be replaced with true National leaders)...
But regardless of how bad it gets I think I will always hold hope for things to turn around.
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EJA44,
Let me be the first to say I don't think anyone here is 'hating' you at all.
I really enjoy being able to express these things, and while I pointed out that it could be similar to 'lashon hara' of the spies I am just saying that because I do care about you and your situation. There is no way I harbor any hatred for what you say here. Quite the opposite, your ability to communicate has impressed me and I think most people here can understand where you are coming from.
I do not share your outlook for your livelihood. If I remember some PM's we shared in the last few years, you should have accumulated a lot of practical experience in the 'small company' work you have had. I started (in my 20s) working for a small company which struggled to make payroll. But I was able to turn that experience into better opportunities because I saw demand for digital video programmers. You work in imaging (if I recall) and there is demand for people with skills in computer imaging, and if I can find some, there may be some in Israel which you would qualify for.
I do not personally know you, but my experience with you at JTF has been a joy for me. I apologize if you felt I was judging you in my replies. I only intend on keeping the spirit, the hope, and the Jewish vision going. I do not suggest it is easy... And I don't think it is wrong to point out the failings in the Israel government (so-called 'leaders' like Bibi must be replaced with true National leaders)...
But regardless of how bad it gets I think I will always hold hope for things to turn around.
Well, I appreciate your response.. I consider you , as many others here as brothers. I always respected your knowledge in halacha and wisdom, especially on spiritual issues, Muman.. I wouldn't want you to think I have hatred towards Israel.. Quite the contrary, it is my ancestral homeland and I only want the best for it. My life here in Galut is not so great either!! However, I feel there is more good things I c an do for Israel and my Jewish people here where I am, then in Israel, itself now.. However, in my heart, Israel is where I belong ,as with every JEw. I am a Middle Eastern Jewish person, inside, not a Westerner, even though I have been raised and adapted to the environment I am now. . I want Israel to be free of its suffering and I guess I have my own way of thinking of solving the problem. Yes, it may not be considered the most rational way according to others here. However , I have my own vision of what can be done to save Israel from the problems it is facing and making it a powerful , successful and free Jewish nation.
In my vision, what I would like to see is a mass exodus of millions of JEws from around the globe to reclaim the stolen Jewish lands from the Arabs.. We should run those Arabs out of our land to house the millions of new Jewish inhabitants. Israel , is only 20% or so of its original land and will hardly be able to adequately house all the new Jewish immigrants we are talking about.. Seriously, 12 million people in such a small area? Los Angeles county is larger than the current boundaries of Israel.. We need push these Arab invaders out of Yehudah and Shomron and the traitors in the Knesset need to be ousted, by force if necessary. There is a lot of things we can learn from the Egyptians, actually! Look at how the Egyptians liberated their country from the Islamists with a coup!! If only Israel could follow suit and liberate its country in a similar manner, our country could be free of the corruption and tyranny it faces by its crooked and Anti-Jewish government.
As far as finding work, I will see how things pan out with my business ventures before I start looking.. I am currently educating myself in web technology to prepare myself for expanding my career potential , should my business ventures fail here..
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The parent who is being hunted in the woods or the one who was thrown out of his home and had it given to Arabs.
Huh?
You are being hunted in the woods?
I don't understand what you are saying. Your whole original comment was explaining away all the bad aspects of Jewish life in America and you said that american Jews would just save so much money if we would accept to not send our kids to expensive Jewish schools. And at the same time you are claiming this helps Jewish survival. Insane.
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Huh?
You are being hunted in the woods?
I don't understand what you are saying. Your whole original comment was explaining away all the bad aspects of Jewish life in America and you said that american Jews would just save so much money if we would accept to not send our kids to expensive Jewish schools. And at the same time you are claiming this helps Jewish survival. Insane.
You are not getting anything I am saying... We are not being hunted yet..Go read a history book about the Holocaust in Belarus (or watch a historical movie at least, Defiance perhaps?) and learn what happened to my relatives in Belarus, the ones who lived were lucky enough to hide in the forests. The ones who were not being hunted in the forest were the ones who were laying in shallow graves in their villages after being mass murdered.
What is insane is that a group of people who has been exterminated throughout their history over and over again keeps making the same stupid mistakes. Congregating in concentrated areas where they are not allowed possess any weapons or mean of defense and are easily accessible to those who hate them.. Never Again, we say??? Umm...
Anyhow, I am glad your kid is going to a great Jewish school.. I think all kids should receive the best Jewish education.. I am just saying if Sh*T his the fan, you may not have any teachers around to give your kids the education you desire.
If my great grandfather Efraim was alive, he could tell you what became of his Jewish School that he attended as a kid in Belarus.
We Jews should be self-sufficient and be able to fend for ourselves, not rely on the government or large organizations to keep us going.. The fact many of us cannot probably even grow a tomato or chamber a rifle round I think emphasizes this unfortunate dilemma.
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^"
What is insane is that a group of people who has been exterminated throughout their history over and over again keeps making the same stupid mistakes. Congregating in concentrated areas where they are not allowed possess any weapons or mean of defense and are easily accessible to those who hate them.. Never Again, we say??? Umm... "
I agree!
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You are not getting anything I am saying... We are not being hunted yet..Go read a history book about the Holocaust in Belarus (or watch a historical movie at least, Defiance perhaps?) and learn what happened to my relatives in Belarus, the ones who lived were lucky enough to hide in the forests. The ones who were not being hunted in the forest were the ones who were laying in shallow graves in their villages after being mass murdered.
What is insane is that a group of people who has been exterminated throughout their history over and over again keeps making the same stupid mistakes. Congregating in concentrated areas where they are not allowed possess any weapons or mean of defense and are easily accessible to those who hate them.. Never Again, we say??? Umm...
People are allowed to have weapons in america. No one is currently hunting us in woods so there is no reason not to try to give kids a quality Jewish education. It is expensive and difficult. Your excuse-making about the clear obvious difficulties of living Jewish in america is just a form of denial.
Embracing the exile is making the same mistake we have made over and over again in history, and that is what you are advocating in this series of posts. You will not allow yourself to see any positive about living in Israel, and that is very tragic.
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Every Jew, what about Jewish home schooling?
http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/443026/jewish/Choosing-Homeschooling.htm
http://www.jewishpress.com/sections/family/parenting-our-children/homeschooling-on-the-rise-in-orthodox-community/2013/07/19/
http://jewishhomeschool.blogspot.com/
http://www.beyondbt.com/2010/05/25/torah-homeschooling/
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Every Jew, what about Jewish home schooling?
http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/443026/jewish/Choosing-Homeschooling.htm
http://www.jewishpress.com/sections/family/parenting-our-children/homeschooling-on-the-rise-in-orthodox-community/2013/07/19/
http://jewishhomeschool.blogspot.com/
http://www.beyondbt.com/2010/05/25/torah-homeschooling/
Great ideas Lisa!!! Where there is a will there is a way!! We Jews need to start thinking about self-sufficiency and survival.. I know Jews have been educating themselves in Torah and making great accomplishments with minimal resources. In all honesty, with internet technology and ease of access to information, video conferencing, nanotechnology, to store large amounts of data in tiny data storage mediums, etc we can actually become more independent from mainstream society than ever before. Of course, even with minimal resources, we can become self-sufficient and educate ourselves. In many ways, all our creature comforts and demands have convoluted our vision and made us less devout. I always felt the greatest people are those who overcame great struggles to achieve their goals.
The way I look at it, the path we are headed, my feelings are the outlook is quite grim.. If every Jew doesn't have the means to support himself and keep himself alive, he weakens not only himself, but his entire community ,especially when our enemies seek to destroy our communities, as they did in the times of Ha Shoah.