JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => Introduce Yourself => Topic started by: qa4383 on September 01, 2007, 03:37:10 PM
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I was invited here by someone I was debating with on youtube who goes by the user name is cahanewasright. He/she asked me to join the forum because I am what most of you would consider a self-hating jew. He/she said that this forum needed "left winged" people to debate with. So here I am.
I will just start of with stating some of my beliefs:
- I believe that Kahane was very wrong. If he were born into the Islamic religion, he'd be the head of the Taliban.
- I believe that Israeli policies are detrimental to the Jewish community.
- I believe that there's no such thing as good vs. evil
I will be happy to further discuss my beliefs with anybody who would like to do so.
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What Israeli polivies might you be referring to?
What do you call Ted Bundy versus the Police if not 'Good versus evil'?
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- I believe that Kahane was very wrong. If he were born into the Islamic religion, he'd be the head of the Taliban.
I doubt it, more likely he'd have left islam.- I believe that Israeli policies are detrimental to the Jewish community.
A lot of them are, such as giving up land.
- I believe that there's no such thing as good vs. evil
What were the nazis if they weren't evil?
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Thinking that there is a "good and bad" is necessary to your own survival. If you don't think that you are good or right, you'll be willing to let other people defeat you. It's a truly suicidal mentality to have.
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Your statement "I believe that there's no such thing as good vs. evil" needs clarification in order for me to be able to engage in a debate. Do you mean that people are not born good or evil but are influenced into acting the way they do by their upbringing; that one man's good is another man's evil; that good and evil acts do not exist therefore good and evil people do not exist? Please clarify.
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Anyone who does'nt believe in good vs evil is insane. If a group of people lets say 6 people were gang raping your mother or wife and someone came along and and stopped them. Would the one who stopped the rape of your loved one be the good or the evil
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To further elaborate on my point. Let's say that theoretically and for argument's sake that there is actually no good or evil. Let's say that good and evil are constructs we make and that there is no objective good or evil. Even if this was to be the case, most people will not think like you. Very few people in the world believe that there is no good or evil, and people will never come around to this belief because it is natural to believe in good and evil to make the world comprehensible to us. Humans need to fit things into neat little categories and if we can decide what is good and evil, that helps us sleep at night.
The problem is that even though you might not believe in good or evil, most other people will, and there will be many other people who will think that YOU are evil, what YOU stand for is evil, and your entire existence is evil. If you don't think that what you stand for is good, you will be defeated by them because you will not have a reason to fight. Although the concept of no good or evil is acceptable on the individual level, imagine if an entire society thought that they weren't good and that there is no good or evil. The people attempting to destroy them aren't necessarily evil, and the group that doesn't believe in good or evil doesn't have a reason to fight because they don't think that they are good or that they necessarily need to defeat the evil. That group is calling for its own destruction.
Believing in good and evil is a survival mechanism, without it, people would simply cease to exist.
People would also cease to act. Many actions that a human being does are driven by the fact that they think it's a good thing. Every person gets self-worth by believing that they are good, and what they stand for is good. That's how ideas get started, how political and economic movements are created, how countries are established, indeed, how the world operates. That's how great inventions are created, the people creating them believe them to be good and believe them to be beneficial for mankind. Obviously if the people believe they are doing something good, something else must necessarily be evil, because without the evil thing there would be no way to tell if what you are doing is good. It's a necessary component to believing that what you are doing is good, to also believe that what someone else is doing is evil.
Imagine what the world would be like if everyone believed that there is no good or evil. All progress would grind to a halt. People are motivated to do things, they get inspired by, and create because they feel that what they are doing is good and will create good. If you take that impetus to act away, humans would just become mindless, unmotivated drones.
If you truly believe that there is no good or evil (which I don't think is really the case) I feel sorry for you. People get joy in their life thinking that they are doing good and that they are working towards the furtherance of good in the world. Without that motivation, what is the purpose of life? Why continue living if you are not good and what you are working towards is not good?
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I was invited here by someone I was debating with on youtube who goes by the user name is cahanewasright. He/she asked me to join the forum because I am what most of you would consider a self-hating jew. Most "self hating" Jews are Jews that have embraced the Stalinist ideology of "Political Correctness" disinformation over Factually Correct information and therefore have allowed themselves to become very closed minded and wilfully diluded with ignorance and molestations.He/she said that this forum needed "left winged" people to debate with. So here I am. Good for you. I do hope to converse with you openly and directly on this forum. As the "Self Hating" Jews are doing a great disservice of peace but also morality and logic especially in the Geopolitical arena.
I will just start of with stating some of my beliefs:
- I believe that Kahane was very wrong. If he were born into the Islamic religion, he'd be the head of the Taliban. Have you ever read any of his works? I find Rabbi Kahane to be not only highly logical but a very moral individual that had amazing abilities to bring out factually based reasononings within every debate, lecture or discussion. There is a VERY big difference between the Taliban and Kach for example which stems from a VERY big difference between Islam and Judaism. Which one is built on "Love thy neighbor" and which one does not even have the concept written within its pages or history?
- I believe that Israeli policies are detrimental to the Jewish community.I agree with you here because Israeli policies are not based on any of the moral teachings of Judaism but are of immoral, illogical and are Socialist in nature. I agree with you...
- I believe that there's no such thing as good vs. evil If there is no such thing as good or evil, how would you propose any nation or society to operate efficiently let alone develop a code of laws or legal statues? Even the Code of Hammerabi lies with the base in this concept as well Roman and all Case Law. So if someone, G-d forbid, rapes and murders your sister would you "rationalize" the situation and blame it on, as a "scape goat", of being poor or perhaps his second cousin once removed from his father's 3rd marriage was an alchoholic....Or would you say that he CHOSE to do this vile deed (of course one must accept the idea of good and evil for it to be even considered a crime) and therefor consider his actions immoral and purely evil in its base?
I will be happy to further discuss my beliefs with anybody who would like to do so. Sounds fine to me. Please remember to keep an open mind and cater to both logic and fact leaving out political and religous agenda and you/we shall be fine. Welcome
PS: I was exactly like you 10 years ago. I suggest you read Rabbi Kahane's works or listen to his lectures or debates. One would call Rabbi Kahane a "racist" because he called the Arabs animals or dogs but neglect to place this in the light of the given situation: bombing and mass murder of Jewish children at Hebrew schools or bus bombings. One too must ask oneself if this comment was not actually correct in its logic given the situation even further how does it compare to the ACTUAL Islamic scriptures taught in the Mosques that Jews are Apes and swine to be killed to the last? Everything must be entertained logically, factually and in perspective. The problem today is that mainstream media and many of the Socialist organizations do not give accurate reportings but intentially skewe their commentaries/reportings to fit a particular agenda; which in most cases is International Socialsim: Globalism... Please feel free to contact me privately should you wish to discuss or debate openly.... :)
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Please explain your opinions a bit more. Why do you think Rav Kahane was "very wrong"?
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My, my...I wasn't expecting such a response.
First of all I should say that my 3rd belief "good vs evil" is not set in stone. I'm still trying to figure it out in my own mind. Because, I do think that there are certain actions that are good and certain ones that are bad.
I just suppose in regards to conflict I just view it more holistically, there are always two sides. Each side believes that what they are doing is right and just, and that the other side is wrong. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. So, in reality there's no way completely determine who in fact is right. People just automatically assume that their own beliefs and actions are correct.
Now if somebody were to come into my house and tell me how to live, of course I'd fight back. At the time however, I am not arrogant enough to believe that since my paradigm works for me, that it must work for everyone.
So it's really a question of morality, and morals fluctuate. What is considered acceptable today may not be acceptable 200 years from now.
So, I suppose my contention is that while I to believe that there is good and bad, it's not set in stone.
I would also like to take the time to say, that while you may consider me to be a self-hating jew, in reality I do not hate myself, my heritage or the Jewish people. I just don't believe in certain aspects of Judaism.
In terms of Kahane, I went onto Kahane.org and I read some of his writings. And quite frankly, I found them rather disturbing.
I found him to be a scared, racist, and vengeful man. The reason I said "If he were born into the Islamic religion, he would be the leader of the Taliban!"is becuase to me, they have the same mentality:
"Our way is the right way, our way in under attack! We must eliminate anyone who doesn't agree with our way!!!"
To quote Kahane:
"It is a great mitzvah to take the revenge of the righteous and humble the evildoer. Whoever forgoes or rejects such an opportunity is cruel, and he denies belief in G-d."
-A mitzvah? Are you kidding me? Well then apparently I'm cruel for believing in forgiveness.
And another quote:
"For it is only vengeance that proves that there is indeed a G-d in the world., that there is good and evil and punishment for that evil."
- Vengeance proves that God exists? How backwards is that? All you have to do is look around to believe. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that God...the source of everything, the creator of the heavens and the earth, would truly feel a petty human emotion such as wrath and vengeance.
Not my God. My God is not some angry invisible man in the sky, looking down upon us judging and critiquing; making sure we don't break any rules or else we'll get punished.
My God is thing that we are a part of, it is life itself. It is us and we are it. And since it is just one thing, (as Abraham originally said) if I hurt another, I am ultimately hurting myself.
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My, my...I wasn't expecting such a response.
First of all I should say that my 3rd belief "good vs evil" is not set in stone. I'm still trying to figure it out in my own mind. Because, I do think that there are certain actions that are good and certain ones that are bad.Can you supply an example?
I just suppose in regards to conflict I just view it more holistically, there are always two sides. Each side believes that what they are doing is right and just, and that the other side is wrong. Yes but which side caters to factually correct information, is logical and may include morality while the other is a purely socio-political agenda based on "politically correct" propaganda and disinformation. A pristine example is the fact that there is no such thing as a "Pal estinian People" yet the media continually promulgates this historyless Arabian Muslim People to their ancient lands in the "West B ank" while if one looks further one sees the blatant agenda to distance any association between Jews and Israel and Judaism and Judea/Samaria. Another example is the fact that there is not one mention of Jerusalem in the Quraan but over 800 in the Tenach. Jerusalem has absolutely no importance whatsoever to Islam period, end, full stop. Logically one must ask why is the world so interested in a lie that Jerusalem is the "Third Holiest City in Islam" but, even leftist Jews, can't even cater to the fact that it is the Holiest city to Judaism?One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. You might research where this adage came from and who coined it. Purely Marxist my friend.... So, in reality there's no way completely determine who in fact is right. Sure there is. Read the Quraan and tell me if it mentions Jerusalem even once and then read your Torah. If you don't see the facts as they are clearly displayed and ask yourself why the media and so-called "educational" system propagates utter lies you will begin to see the political and social agendas here at work. The fact that "Pa lestine" was never a functioning nation with any aspect of a viable entity, ever, one must logically ask how a "Nationality" and a "People" separate from any of the other Arab/Moslems from Morocco to Iraq was formed and why?People just automatically assume that their own beliefs and actions are correct. Not at all true. If one is a closed minded ignoramus this statement holds water but if one takes the time to research both sides and researches key elements one can again see an agenda at work especially if one reads up on the basic goals and/or requirements of certain political, social, religious ideologies. Upon educating oneself in these areas the bias within any issue jumps out. Did not Joseph Goebbels, also afforded to Hitler, say "The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one." with similar by Stalin? All Communist/Socialist/Nazi movements are based on politically correct propaganda....end.
Now if somebody were to come into my house and tell me how to live, of course I'd fight back. At the time however, I am not arrogant enough to believe that since my paradigm works for me, that it must work for everyone.
So it's really a question of morality, and morals fluctuate. Morals most certainly do not fluctuate there is moral and immoral the same as there is good and bad. Socialism and all these other Leftist ideologies propagate such foolishness to replace the concrete Laws of G-d to "fluctuating" laws of man. What is considered acceptable today may not be acceptable 200 years from now. Ah, the wisdom in your words. This most certainly applies to G-dless Humanism/Socialism/Communism ect but not to Judaism as the Laws are given and final.
So, I suppose my contention is that while I to believe that there is good and bad, it's not set in stone. Well, at least you are admitting you're a leftist/socialist etc. This is where that particular logic stems.
I would also like to take the time to say, that while you may consider me to be a self-hating jew, in reality I do not hate myself, my heritage or the Jewish people. I just don't believe in certain aspects of Judaism. Probably because you are unlearned on the concepts and logic of Judaism?
In terms of Kahane, I went onto Kahane.org and I read some of his writings. And quite frankly, I found them rather disturbing. Can you give any examples? I suggest that you select one particular topic and research both sides of the coin. For example "Global Warming". Read all the Leftist stuff and then, for example, go to Www.CanadaFreePress.Com and read some of theirs or go to google video and watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle". Then research the facts and see whose holds water and whose doesn't. Who is making the statements and is he qualified or his he, like Al Gore, just an over paid elitist political whore.
I found him to be a scared, racist, and vengeful man. There is absolutely nothing racist about Rabbi Kahane, Nothing. Sorry brother but if one looks at the realities on the ground today all over the world, you will see that Rabbi Kahane was far ahead of his time. Switzerland, France, Holland are passing legislation to actively encourage Islamic/African emigration because of the problems of "embracing diversity" and "multiculturalism" has had on their once nice countries.The reason I said "If he were born into the Islamic religion, he would be the leader of the Taliban!"is becuase to me, they have the same mentality:
"Our way is the right way, our way in under attack! We must eliminate anyone who doesn't agree with our way!!!" Before you make such a misguided statement please read the Koran and Hadith and compare ISlamic history to Jewish History and Judaism. You are comparing apples to oranges.
To quote Kahane:
"It is a great mitzvah to take the revenge of the righteous and humble the evildoer. Whoever forgoes or rejects such an opportunity is cruel, and he denies belief in G-d."
-A mitzvah? Are you kidding me? Well then apparently I'm cruel for believing in forgiveness. This is because you don't know Judaism. Should you forgive some person who hates Jews and chooses to rape and murder your daughter? Brother, in all honesty, your brain has been infected with Joseph Stalin's "Political Correctness" and Liberal ineptitudes. You must think logically. What the Rabbi is saying is that it is a Mitzvah to eliminate evilness from the world. It is called Kiddush HaShem vs. Chilul HaShem. This is logical and moral because without evilness what is left? Open your mind brother...
And another quote:
"For it is only vengeance that proves that there is indeed a G-d in the world., that there is good and evil and punishment for that evil." Exactly...relates to my above position. Evil should and must be punnished. You have a problem with this?
- Vengeance proves that G-d exists? How backwards is that? All you have to do is look around to believe. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that G-d...the source of everything, the creator of the heavens and the earth, would truly feel a petty human emotion such as wrath and vengeance. Did he not give us free will and the laws of how to lead a moral life and also give many examples of what not to do?
Not my G-d. My G-d is not some angry invisible man in the sky, looking down upon us judging and critiquing; making sure we don't break any rules or else we'll get punished.
My G-d is thing that we are a part of, it is life itself. It is us and we are it. And since it is just one thing, (as Abraham originally said) if I hurt another, I am ultimately hurting myself...Did Abraham not smote the Egyptian that was harming the Jew? Why did he do this? Did he do it to eliminate Evil? Was it a good deed to kill that evil man? "Thou shalt not stand idly by thy brother's blood"? Open your mind brother and look for the logic and the moral quality as to how it relates to the given position. You are judging without understanding the depth....
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My G-d is thing that we are a part of, it is life itself. It is us and we are it. And since it is just one thing, (as Abraham originally said) if I hurt another, I am ultimately hurting myself.
Ok, I'm on board with what you said except this part. I do agree with you that always in conflict, each side thinks that they are good. Much of the time one man's good is the other man's evil. That doesn't mean that you can't use your brain to determine who's actually evil and who's actually good. Of course there will be some evil aspects and some good aspects to nearly everything. The question is to what degree. If something has 90% good and 10% evil, it's a good thing. We live in the real world where there are no absolutes. If something is 90% evil and 10% good, we need to label it as evil. A situation might not necessarily be able to be framed as good vs. evil, sometimes it is evil vs. less evil.
I just think that stopping to get as much information as possible about both sides in a conflict and coming to a decision about what is evil and what is not, is the lazy man's way out. It's basically like saying, "yes this issue is really complicated there are so many factors to take into consideration, I don't want to think through it anymore so I'm just going to give up and say that there is no good or evil."
It seems like it's a scientific, "objective", enlightened, or reasoned way to think, but in the end of the day it's just laziness and an inability to make a hard decision. People who say that there is no good or evil are copping out of trying to figure a situation out, and it gives them an air of wisdom even though most of these people are just ignorant and unable to objectively weigh positive and negative criteria.
Anyway, your quote disturbed me a bit when you said "we are G-d, and he is us." I think I might be interpreting it a bit wrong. It seems to me to be a purely humanist stance, like "there is no G-d, we are G-d." I hope that's not what you're trying to say. Indeed, we are part of G-d's creation and everything around us has G-d's hand as its cause of existence but we definitely are not G-d.
Also, if you hurt evil people, you are not hurting G-d because humans have free will to do what they want. Also, saying that hurting another person is ultimately hurting yourself is one of those "sounds nice" ideas that fails to work in the real world. There are countless examples of how hurting another person benefits or prevents harm to yourself. If someone is coming to murder your family and you murder him, preventing the slaughter of your entire family, you are definitely not hurting yourself. There are countless situations where hurting someone else does not hurt you that it renders that statement as completely absurd.
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This new poster is symptomatic of the sick, amoral tide that is sweeping Israel and the west.
"There's no good & evil, no wright & wrong, it's all shades of gey, it's all relative"....!!
The moral relativism results in a complete lack of morals. These people can no longer tell the difference between the IDF and the PLO, Elliott Ness and Al Capone, Mother Theresa and Ted Bundy!
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Good post ZJ and Newman. I agree with you 100%. The sad fact is that these Jews have embraced Socialism/ Liberalism over Judaism. Probably the product and outcome of "politically correct" Deformed "Judaism".
The most evil quality of these Leftist is their ability to "rationalize" any negative or evil issue into an outcome they so desire. A staple of Dialectical Materialist philosophy. There is no Black and White with a small grey area to be debated or ruled either way. These Liberals and their "open mindedness" have eliminated the Black and White to be left with a mass of grey area to be "rationalized" and changed to fit the human, or State's, constanly changing "needs"....from the communist manifesto.
So both Newman and Zev what you say is 100% correct and perhaps if this new poster thinks of it for more than 3 seconds and entertains some logic as it relates to every leftist attack on so-called "right wing" or conservative issues...he should be able to entertain logic and see the light of the lies of the left and the purpose....for those lies.
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Good and evil exist, though I usually use the terms moral and immoral instead. Moral people try to rise above the lowest parts of human nature. Immoral people are sociopaths, with a machiavellian mentality of "the ends justify the means." They are in the pre-conventional stage of thinking, only motivated by rewards and punishments, whereas moral people are in the post-conventional stage of thinking, having principles of right and wrong, and sticking to them even if they are not popular.
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Morals most certainly do not fluctuate there is moral and immoral the same as there is good and bad.
Of course morals fluctuate. Slavery was once considered to be morally acceptable, it's even accepted in some parts of the bible. "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Do you mean to tell me that slavery is morally acceptable today? What about pre-marital sex? What about killing another? "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the 10 commandments, but we all know that that one goes out the window depending on the circumstances. What about the treatment of Handicapped people? What about the American health care system? What about polygamy?
All these are moralistic ideas that have changed over time. So, no it is not absurd to think that morals change depending on the situation.
It seems like it's a scientific, "objective", enlightened, or reasoned way to think, but in the end of the day it's just laziness and an inability to make a hard decision. People who say that there is no good or evil are copping out of trying to figure a situation out, and it gives them an air of wisdom even though most of these people are just ignorant and unable to objectively weigh positive and negative criteria.
If it 'seems' like there's a scientific, enlightened etc. way to think...than perhaps it is. I hardly think that's looking a both sides of the same coin is ignorant and/or lazy. Ignorance would result from looking at the one side and not turning it over to see what's on the other side.
Anyway, your quote disturbed me a bit when you said "we are G-d, and he is us." I think I might be interpreting it a bit wrong. It seems to me to be a purely humanist stance, like "there is no G-d, we are G-d." I hope that's not what you're trying to say. Indeed, we are part of G-d's creation and everything around us has G-d's hand as its cause of existence but we definitely are not G-d.
No, I definitely believe in a creative force, I just don't believe that it is a separate entity from us. I don't like the God that is depicted in the bible. I find him to be cruel, angry, misogynistic, vengeful, divisive etc. Now, before you go on quoting the bible, I haven't read the whole thing becuase at first I couldn't get past Genesis...it annoyed me too much; it just didn't make any sense to me. I have since then tried to continue, but I can't get past Moses...to me, (I know this will offend many of you, I apologize ahead of time) to me, Moses is a schizophrenic, power hungry cult leader who instills the fear of God, that only he can miraculously hear, into his followers so they can be easily controlled. (once again, I apologize to many of you that I am sure I have offended)
If someone is coming to murder your family and you murder him, preventing the slaughter of your entire family, you are definitely not hurting yourself.
I actually am hurting myself...spiritually. If somebody attacks me or my family, of course my animal instinct will take over and I will go on the defensive, and I will do what needs to be done. But, I will not take pleasure in this, attacking him will not make me feel good.
This is my take on forgiveness.
"I think there are many misconceptions about the practice of forgiving. Some mistakenly believe that by forgiving you are condoning or accepting a grievous act. Or that by forgiving it implies you are weak and will not stand up against those who commit such acts. Another misconception is that if you forgive, justice will be abandoned. But forgiveness is not about helplessly giving up, surrendering, avoiding justice or being weak. Forgiveness is about recognizing the terrible wrong that you hold in your heart, realizing that the wrong can be healed, and working to understand how you came to hold your anger and resentment so dearly so that you do not let it happen again. This process helps you to develop compassion for yourself and others." ~Lama Chuck Stamford
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I'm so glad qa4383 is posting here. He's a perfect example of the sick, self-hating, morally-relative, confused, faithless whimpy Jew that JTF opposes. He's a living textbook.
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I'm so glad qa4383 is posting here. He's a perfect example of the sick, self-hating, morally-relative, confused, faithless whimpy Jew that JTF opposes. He's a living textbook.
Please tell me where you have felt justified to insult me. If it's becuase of the Moses thing, I already apologized ahead of time. If you're going to insult me, why don't you back up your statements.
Sick...I'm assuming you mean mentally ill. I believe that I am writing somewhat coherently, am I not? And no, I don't hear voices.
Self-hating...mmm, I don't recall ever mentioning that I hate myself, in fact I believe that I've mentioned just the opposite.
morally-relative...well I'm sorry, I just don't think that slavery, polygamy and killing amongst other things are very moral.
Confused...I admitted that I am not sure about the good/vs evil argument, so I'll give you that one ;)
faithless...no, I think I've made my beliefs quite clear...it's just not the same as yours. (scary isn't it?)
whimpy...well, if that means that I'm not jam packed full of hatred, anger, vengeance and fear...well then I suppose I am.
I am here to learn about your mindset becuase I don't understand it. I don't understand it anymore than you can understand mine. There's is so much hatred and divisiveness on this forum that it boggles my mind. I want to learn about it becuase I feel that it's people with a tribalistic mindset that is ultimately going to be one of the causes for the destruction of humanity. Just like I'm sure that you believe that people with my mindset are going to be our end doing.
So, perhaps instead of insulting me, you could learn from me just like I'm attempting to do from you!
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I'm so glad qa4383 is posting here. He's a perfect example of the sick, self-hating, morally-relative, confused, faithless whimpy Jew that JTF opposes. He's a living textbook.
Please tell me where you have felt justified to insult me. If it's becuase of the Moses thing, I already apologized ahead of time. If you're going to insult me, why don't you back up your statements.
Sick...I'm assuming you mean mentally ill. I believe that I am writing somewhat coherently, am I not? And no, I don't hear voices.
Self-hating...mmm, I don't recall ever mentioning that I hate myself, in fact I believe that I've mentioned just the opposite.
morally-relative...well I'm sorry, I just don't think that slavery, polygamy and killing amongst other things are very moral.
Confused...I admitted that I am not sure about the good/vs evil argument, so I'll give you that one ;)
faithless...no, I think I've made my beliefs quite clear...it's just not the same as yours. (scary isn't it?)
whimpy...well, if that means that I'm not jam packed full of hatred, anger, vengeance and fear...well then I suppose I am.
I am here to learn about your mindset becuase I don't understand it. I don't understand it anymore than you can understand mine. There's is so much hatred and divisiveness on this forum that it boggles my mind. I want to learn about it becuase I feel that it's people with a tribalistic mindset that is ultimately going to be one of the causes for the destruction of humanity. Just like I'm sure that you believe that people with my mindset are going to be our end doing.
So, perhaps instead of insulting me, you could learn from me just like I'm attempting to do from you!
Every single syllable you type backs up my appraisal of you. I was just too mindful of JTF's disk space to bother quoting everything.
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Every single syllable you type backs up my appraisal of you.
Once again Newman....backup your statements. Or perhaps you can't because I'm speaking of some truths. If I'm not being truthful, prove me wrong.
I don't understand your way of thinking, please enlighten me.
What experiences or lessons have you had that have caused you to think the way you do?
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Every single syllable you type backs up my appraisal of you.
Once again Newman....backup your statements. Or perhaps you can't because I'm speaking of some truths. If I'm not being truthful, prove me wrong.
I don't understand your way of thinking, please enlighten me.
What experiences or lessons have you had that have caused you to think the way you do?
You have no concept of good and evil which makes you morally vaccuous.
You have pity on the cruel which makes you evil.
You think Kahane (ZT'L) was wrong for defending Jews and Israel which makes you evil.
You see Jews as no better than 'other people' which makes you stupid.
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You have no concept of good and evil which makes you morally vaccuous.
You have pity on the cruel which makes you evil.
You think Kahane (ZT'L) was wrong for defending Jews and Israel which makes you evil.
You see Jews as no better than 'other people' which makes you stupid.
Boy, I've never been called evil or stupid before.
Let's take a look at good and evil...according to the thesaurus.
Good = light, love, kind, admirable, blameless, charitable, ethical, honest, honorable, respectable, right, virtuous, well-behaved, worthy, altruistic, approving, charitable, considerate, friendly, giving, gracious, humane, humanitarian, kind-hearted, kindly, merciful, obliging, philanthropic, tolerant.
evil = darkness, angry, negative, bad, base, corrupt, destructive, harmful, hateful, loathsome, malicious, offensive, repulsive, revolting, sinful, spiteful, ugly, vicious, vile, wicked, wrathful, wrong, demonic,
As I mentioned before, the amount of hatred, anger and vengefulness on this forum boggles my mind. So who do you consider evil again?
Oh yeah...me. Definitely not you.
What do you want to do with all the Arabs again?... I believe that I read on another post that you wanted to 'wipe them out' or something along those lines. Isn't that what Hitler wanted to with the jews? And I'm assuming that you consider Hitler evil as well...but wait...you want to wipe out Arabs and Hitler wanted to wipe out the jews. Since Hitler had an evil ideology, then logic would dictate that you as well would have an evil ideology. But I highly doubt that you consider yourself evil, in fact I bet you consider yourself quite righteous.
Hmm...interesting.
The truth is I don't consider you evil. All I know about you is what you post on this forum and from what I've read, for what ever reason, you have a tremendous amount of hatred in your heart.
It's a sad state of affairs if in our 'civilized' world, someone is considered evil for simply disagreeing with another.
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FYI, Mr "OOOOOO, Pleeeeease don't hurt me, Mr PLO-nazi, Sir Oy Oy Oy":
Kahane NEVER advocated wiping the arabs out. He advocated their humane relocation WITH a finacial gift! Equate THAT with the german nazis, you immoral twit.
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The guy makes up things as he goes along no moral compass.He even gets what Rabbi Kahane said wrong,also he mentioned tribalism he does'nt realize everyone here is different
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It is one of the few points of comfort I have in this current conflict knowing that the if the Muslims ever win they will soon kill the Leftists who did so much to bring them to power, as has already happened in Algeria, Lebanon, and Iran.
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It is one of the few points of comfort I have in this current conflict knowing that the if the Muslims ever win they will soon kill the Leftists who did so much to bring them to power, as has already happened in Algeria, Lebanon, and Iran.
That IS some consolation. ;D
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Re: "...It's a sad state of affairs if in our 'civilized' world, someone is considered evil for simply disagreeing with another. ..."
No problem by me.
You are free to go tell Fidel Castro or Robert Mugabe how much you disagree with them.
They are probably much more "civilized" than we are here.
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Kahane NEVER advocated wiping the arabs out. He advocated their humane relocation WITH a finacial gift! Equate THAT with the german nazis, you immoral twit.
If you read my post properly, you would of noticed I never mentioned Kahane. I was referring to what you had posted on another board. This one:
No.
But 99% of muslims are either terrorists, terrorist supporters or terrorists in waiting.
So BURN THE BLOODY LOT!!!!!
Burn the lot of them, huh? Sounds like genocide to me. Oh wait, but I'm the evil one.
It is one of the few points of comfort I have in this current conflict knowing that the if the Muslims ever win they will soon kill the Leftists
Oh yes, let's take COMFORT in the deaths of all those who disagree with us. You are such a group of kind and loving people :D
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Kahane NEVER advocated wiping the arabs out. He advocated their humane relocation WITH a finacial gift! Equate THAT with the german nazis, you immoral twit.
If you read my post properly, you would of noticed I never mentioned Kahane. I was referring to what you had posted on another board. This one:
No.
But 99% of muslims are either terrorists, terrorist supporters or terrorists in waiting.
So BURN THE BLOODY LOT!!!!!
Burn the lot of them, huh? Sounds like genocide to me. Oh wait, but I'm the evil one.
It is one of the few points of comfort I have in this current conflict knowing that the if the Muslims ever win they will soon kill the Leftists
Oh yes, let's take COMFORT in the deaths of all those who disagree with us. You are such a group of kind and loving people :D
But you still can't equate what I said with german nazism. I am advocating the destruction of those who have advocated MY destruction and instigated a war against the west.
The nazis muredered Jews who did NO SUCH THING.
That just shows how morally vaccuous you are!
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Very good post Massuh and all others. This fellow has no understanding about what "slavery" actually ment under Jewish Law and ancient Israel. Totally uncomparable to any other slavery period end full stop. More comparable to the foundations to and for all of todays real, not politically guided, human rights/civil rights.
There is no "hatred" on this forum accept for evilness. People should not have to "tolerate" immorality, evilness or anything of the like. The quote is "He who comes to murder you, kill him first!" This particular adage places forward the most moral and logical difference between Killing and Murder.
..... I will not insult anyone unless someone insults me .....
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If someone is coming to murder your family and you murder him, preventing the slaughter of your entire family, you are definitely not hurting yourself.
I actually am hurting myself...spiritually. If somebody attacks me or my family, of course my animal instinct will take over and I will go on the defensive, and I will do what needs to be done. But, I will not take pleasure in this, attacking him will not make me feel good.
You've stated what you would do if someone came to kill you or your family. What would you do if they only wanted to subjugate you and have you live as a second class citizen with the threat of physical violence or murder if you did not adhere to their wishes?
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You've stated what you would do if someone came to kill you or your family. What would you do if they only wanted to subjugate you and have you live as a second class citizen with the threat of physical violence or murder if you did not adhere to their wishes?
Fair enough...if someone were to come into my house and tell me how to live, I would fight back.
Having said that...I'm not going to go into somebody else's house and tell them how to live, no matter how much I disagree with them. That would be hypocritical.
My post regarding slavery was to show how moral can change over time. Once upon a time, slavery was completely acceptable. If you fail to see that, than I don't know what to say.
I fully understand the difference between killing and murder. In my opinion, both leave you spiritually desolate.
I'm sure you don't realize it, but as an outsider looking in, the mentality on this forum is just as destructive and angry as any radical Islamic forum. I am sure that if you were to peruse a radical Islamic site, you will see posts very similar to the ones that I have been reading here.
I am sorry to say, (WARNING this is going to [censored] you off, an I"m sure that the insults are going to fly)
Your way of thinking is the same as your enemies. To me, this mentality is just as dangerous as radical Islam.
It is this mentality that is going to bring about WWIII. And I think we all know how destructive this war will be if it happens.
You cannot fight fire with fire... that only makes more fire. One fights fire with water.
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You've stated what you would do if someone came to kill you or your family. What would you do if they only wanted to subjugate you and have you live as a second class citizen with the threat of physical violence or murder if you did not adhere to their wishes?
Fair enough...if someone were to come into my house and tell me how to live, I would fight back.
Having said that...I'm not going to go into somebody else's house and tell them how to live, no matter how much I disagree with them. That would be hypocritical.
My post regarding slavery was to show how moral can change over time. Once upon a time, slavery was completely acceptable. If you fail to see that, than I don't know what to say.
I fully understand the difference between killing and murder. In my opinion, both leave you spiritually desolate.
I'm sure you don't realize it, but as an outsider looking in, the mentality on this forum is just as destructive and angry as any radical Islamic forum. I am sure that if you were to peruse a radical Islamic site, you will see posts very similar to the ones that I have been reading here.
I am sorry to say, (WARNING this is going to [censored] you off, an I"m sure that the insults are going to fly)
Your way of thinking is the same as your enemies. To me, this mentality is just as dangerous as radical Islam.
It is this mentality that is going to bring about WWIII. And I think we all know how destructive this war will be if it happens.
You cannot fight fire with fire... that only makes more fire. One fights fire with water.
How would you have fought WWII?
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How would you have fought WWII?
Good question...I suppose fighting fire with fire does bring about momentary peace. However does it really solve anything? If it did would we be in this predicament? Wasn't WWII an offshoot of WWI? And these new war against terror...do you not think that the formation of Israel in Arab territory has anything to do with it?
(Now before you all jump down my throat...yes, I believe that there were Palestinians living there before 1948. Just becuase they were in national limbo and didn't have a flag doesn't mean that they weren't people living there.)
There's a reason why radical Islam hates the west so much and it's not just becuase they hate our freedom and it's not because they're naturally evil.
BTW HiWarp...thank you for engaging in a logical conversation with me. I appreciate not being insulted.
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Holy crap...I can't believe it. You people won't even let me write the word Pal....ian. It gets replaced with 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis'
I am truly appalled. What ever happened to free speech? And you wonder why they won't recognize Israel.
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Holy crap...I can't believe it. You people won't even let me write the word Pal....ian. It gets replaced with 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis'
I am truly appalled. What ever happened to free speech? And you wonder why they won't recognize Israel.
How can you write something that don't exist! Whats the point!
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Holy crap...I can't believe it. You people won't even let me write the word Pal....ian. It gets replaced with 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis'
I am truly appalled. What ever happened to free speech? And you wonder why they won't recognize Israel.
Are you trying to say the 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis' are trying to destroy Israel to supprt 'free speech', which BTW they DON'T have in ANY muslim country?
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How would you have fought WWII?
Good question...I suppose fighting fire with fire does bring about momentary peace. However does it really solve anything? If it did would we be in this predicament? Wasn't WWII an offshoot of WWI? And these new war against terror...do you not think that the formation of Israel in Arab territory has anything to do with it?
(Now before you all jump down my throat...yes, I believe that there were PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis living there before 1948. Just becuase they were in national limbo and didn't have a flag doesn't mean that they weren't people living there.)
There's a reason why radical Islam hates the west so much and it's not just becuase they hate our freedom and it's not because they're naturally evil.
BTW HiWarp...thank you for engaging in a logical conversation with me. I appreciate not being insulted.
Why do you think that Islam hates the west? It can't be because of the formation of Israel in 1948 because it existed prior to that.
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mmmm i think that you need more Torah?and i say that with all respect,as for the Muslimnazis.you cannot reason with them, when they come to destroy you,you cannot live with them, when they come to take your land.and you certainly cannot forget that they hold your complete and utter destruction as a command from their womanising peadophile "prophet".no my friend,they come to spread their evil all over this earth.Kahane said "I know that elections must be limited only to those who understand that the Arabs are the deadly enemy of the Jewish state, who would bring on us a slow Auschwitz - not with gas, but with knives and hatchets." is this wrong,no it is not.he also said "There is the illusion of the world and the reality of the Torah." Again i say to you what is bad with this?..Im a Gentile but i strive to follow the "7-laws".i would be happy to debate with you on this subject.Ofc i am no expert on Kahane or the Torah but the ppl on here have helped me understand a little more,would it hurt you to do the same?.
regards and peace.David.
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Holy crap...I can't believe it. You people won't even let me write the word Pal....ian. It gets replaced with 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis'
I am truly appalled. What ever happened to free speech? And you wonder why they won't recognize Israel.
Firstly, If you had any factually correct knowledge and pride in your "Jewishness" you'd agree and not make this comment. Firstly, there are no such things as a "Bolistianian Beoble", they simply do not exist, never had done so in any historical capacity and were created purely out of anti-semitic and anti-Israel reasons.
Do you not understand or even question why there is such an attempt to re-paint history? Such an agenda to disassociate the Jews with Israel? The Jews and Judaism to Judea/Samaria? You seem not to question the Arab/Muslim association to a non existant/fabricated entity of Bolistine and Bolistinian? Was Jesus a Jew from Judea or an Arabian Islamic Bolistianin from so-called "West Bank" in Bolistine?
You seem to forget that 2000 years ago, it was Herr Hitler's former: Herr Hadrian, that created Bolistine in the direct attempt to wipe out the Jews and make Israel known, no more? Is this not directly comparable to Hitler, the Nazis and the Holocaust? The history shows Roman's also slaughtered the Jews by the masses in attempt to quash the rebellion and further distroy any remnant of their poeple and their nation.... There is a good story of this in the opening pages of "A Will To Survive" by John Phillips...for example..
I was the one who asked specifically for this to be practiced because I do not like Leftist anti-semites, Nazis or practicing/ devout Islamic Savages (for which you'd undertand if you read the Hadith or Koran) the title "Bolistinian" was, and IS, solely fabricated and predicated on an antisetimic lie. You are a leftist. Go to Wikipedia, which is hardly a bastion of "Right Wing Extremism" for example and search the specific name "Johann Von Leers". This specific individual, for one example, will indicate to you that I/we are telling more of factually correct truths following logic and morality as our guide over a pure socio-political agenda that demands the end of religion, G-d, morality, family, culture, nation, private property etc.: Communism/Utopianism... Go..look it up....and enjoy...
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"Bolistianian Beoble" :laugh: :laugh:
(Who don't understand the joke : Arabs can't pronounce the letter P, instead, they pronounce it as B)
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"Bolistianian Beoble" :laugh: :laugh:
(Who don't understand the joke : Arabs can't pronounce the letter P, instead, they pronounce it as B)
AH HA! Finally, proof that Pal-es-tinians don't actually exist. After all, who would call themselves a name that they can't even pronounce? ;D
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How does one define a people and a nation? Is your definition of a nation the biblical one? Or is a nation defined in the context of a common people sharing a land and a culture?
If it's the latter, then there was/is a Pal-es-tine. Whether you want to admit it or not, a common people (Arabs, Muslims/Christians) lived in Pal-es-tine and created a national identity.
If you are denying that there is such a thing as a Pal-es-tinian, then you are denying that there is such a thing as an American. Americans are a common people who created a common identity and one cannot deny that there is such a thing as an American.
Even the Native Americans, prior to colonization had a culture, a very strong one. Did they have a flag?..No. But people lived there and the Europeans, with a similar mentality as you, thought they were better...more civilized. They felt that they had every right to claim what was to become North America... for the Natives were savages. In a sense I suppose they were. The natives did fight amongst themselves, and they didn't have sophisticated technology. The Europeans had stronger weapons, they built better boats.
However, do you believe what the Europeans did was moral? 200 hundred years from now, if the Native American community became stronger and rised up against the system and fought to reclaim their land...a land that was originally theirs; would you support them? Would you willingly give up your land, because hundreds of years ago, it once belonged to someone else?
I highly doubt that you would. So why would expect anything less from a Pas-es-tian? A people you claim don't exist, even though there are millions who disagree with you.
You people can continue being delusional, believing what ever "facts" fancy you. If telling yourself that there are no such thing as Pal-es-tinians relieves your guilt for doing very similar things to what the Europeans did to the Natives...so be it.
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qa4383: "...If it's the latter, then there was/is a Pal-es-tine. Whether you want to admit it or not, a common people (Arabs, Muslims/Christians) lived in Pal-es-tine and created a national identity..."
-You repeat the standard Communist Party CCCP line very well, but it is all a lie.
-There never was an independent state, nation, or people in Eretz Yisrael after Rome exiled the Jews.
-There was only a depopulated and desolate territory area coming under one the rule of one or another various empires. Read Mark Twain's personal travel log of his visit there. It confirms our truth and refutes your lies.
-After the rule of the Ottoman Empire it became the area legally known as British Mandate P_les_tine.
-This British controlled area included ALL of what is today the State of Israel as well as ALL of what is today The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
-One half of Jerusalem which was ALWAYS the capital city of THE JEWS ONLY plus ALL of historically Jewish Judaea & Samaria (known to Marxists worldwide as "The West Bank" (which is supposed to refer to an imaginary land which doesn't exist....it's a term referring to the west bank of the Jordan River) WERE UNDER THE SOVEREIGN RULE OF JORDAN!...
-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, & Iraq are ALL artificial constructs devised in the decade of the 1940's out of thin air by the British & French Imperialists who ruled those areas; carving up the maps to cause division and allow Western control of oil resources.
-There was NO "P_les_ine devised as a nation by these European Imperialists.
-There was never a nation with boundaries called P-alest-ne.
-Neither was there a government by that name; nor was there any leader of the area other than Turkish or European imperialists.
-Neither does there exist a P-alest-ni-an LANGUAGE, A UNIQUE CULTURE, A WRITTEN OR ORAL HISTORY, A RELIGION, OR EVEN A UNIQUE CUISINE.
You think that a group of unlawful squatters is not going to just "get up and leave; giving the land back to its rightful owners?"
You're right only on that observation, and that is exact why the Jews fought both British Imperialists and also Arab terrorists tooth and nail and retook OUR own land by blood and by fire.
Even those you would support refute you as well as the rest of your so-called "international community":
-"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identify serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel," said Zuheir Muhsin, the head of the terrorist PLO's "military department" in a March 1977 interview with Trouw, a Dutch daily newspaper.-
Now...why don't you get busy carving up your own country to create a "Black HomeLand" for the "Nation of Islam"?....they have always claimed they are a separate nation and demanded that the U.S. Government set aside an entire region of this country to satisfy their demands...What's wrong?...don't like associating with [censored]?
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Now...why don't you get busy carving up your own country to create a "Black HomeLand" for the "Nation of Islam"?....they have always claimed they are a separate nation and demanded that the U.S. Government set aside an entire region of this country to satisfy their demands...What's wrong?...don't like associating with [censored]?
Oh those [censored] ???.. such appropriate and level headed comments. Why am I surprised that such racial epitaphs are commonplace on this site?? I'm slowly realizing that it's a waste of time to try and infuse an alternate perspective into this site as many here claim that they're not racist. My experience here indicates otherwise. Calling me a communist, a liberal, a self hater, evil or morally vacuous is just your way of avoiding answering the subject matter. The funny thing is I am neither a communist, a self hater or any other identity tag you use to define me. You people are so fearful of another holocaust that your logic in clouded by fear. "From fear comes insecurity, from insecurity comes greed, from greed comes frustration, from frustration comes anger, and from anger comes aggression and violence leading to separation and ugliness. By freeing yourself from fear and insecurity, one has no need to attatch himself to outside objects and does not go down this negative spiral." ~Mark Forester
The insecurity and fear I see on this site is breeding more antisemitism. You can desire separation from the world, but then you can't also expect their support.
I will leave you with this one thought for all of you to ponder......
Israel has humiliated, marginalized and out right banished the P A L E S T I N I A N S and yet, they're still there. In fact there is more of them today then there was 10 years ago. You can keep kicking them while they're down and enclosing them in a walled Bantus tan state but, they're not going away and they're becoming more radicalized and angry by the minute. This is not a situation that anyone would want to leave behind for his kids to deal with in the future.
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Now...why don't you get busy carving up your own country to create a "Black HomeLand" for the "Nation of Islam"?....they have always claimed they are a separate nation and demanded that the U.S. Government set aside an entire region of this country to satisfy their demands...What's wrong?...don't like associating with [censored]?
Oh those [censored] ???.. such appropriate and level headed comments. Why am I surprised that such racial epitaphs are commonplace on this site?? I'm slowly realizing that it's a waste of time to try and infuse an alternate perspective into this site as many here claim that they're not racist. My experience here indicates otherwise. Calling me a communist, a liberal, a self hater, evil or morally vacuous is just your way of avoiding answering the subject matter. The funny thing is I am neither a communist, a self hater or any other identity tag you use to define me. You people are so fearful of another holocaust that your logic in clouded by fear. "From fear comes insecurity, from insecurity comes greed, from greed comes frustration, from frustration comes anger, and from anger comes aggression and violence leading to separation and ugliness. By freeing yourself from fear and insecurity, one has no need to attatch himself to outside objects and does not go down this negative spiral." ~Mark Forester
The insecurity and fear I see on this site is breeding more antisemitism. You can desire separation from the world, but then you can't also expect their support.
I will leave you with this one thought for all of you to ponder......
Israel has humiliated, marginalized and out right banished the P A L E S T I N I A N S and yet, they're still there. In fact there is more of them today then there was 10 years ago. You can keep kicking them while they're down and enclosing them in a walled Bantus tan state but, they're not going away and they're becoming more radicalized and angry by the minute. This is not a situation that anyone would want to leave behind for his kids to deal with in the future.
While your final comment again shows your lack of knowledge of the situation and the effectiveness of Arab/Muslim propoganda, as it is in fact the Jews and every other people who endure the tragedy of liveing under the Muslims who are constantly humiliated and brought low, you are right, we musnt leave the Arabs occuping our country for our children. That would indeed be cruel, that is why we believe in the expulsion of ALL Arabs/Muslims from Israel, the complete liberation of our homeland, and the right of all peoples to live free of the curse of Muslim colonizers.
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"From fear comes insecurity, from insecurity comes greed, from greed comes frustration, from frustration comes anger, and from anger comes aggression and violence leading to separation and ugliness. By freeing yourself from fear and insecurity, one has no need to attach himself to outside objects and does not go down this negative spiral, but creates an atmosphere in which everyone you come into contact with feels this harmonious and peaceful atmosphere and responds positively to it. You create around yourself a state of peace and harmony in which you can respond freely and creatively in everything you do.
This precept gives us a clue as to how to get the best out of those we come into contact with. If we are not aggressive, almost all the people we meet will be equally non-threatening, and those who approach us with aggression will feel quite disarmed by our lack of aggressive response.
What we give out to the world returns to us, and we all know that when we are angry or aggressive, we meet rage around every corner." ~Mark Forester
I am not interested in feeling angry anymore. It is an emotion that I rarely feel, yet it has been rearing its ugly head ever since I came onto this forum.
Despite what you may think...I am extremely content. I completely acknowledge and appreciate my good fortune. I have truly been blessed with everything one can ask for. I only pray that anger and fear like yours remains a minority, within all fundamentalist groups. I am so thankful that I did not grow up with such negativity.
Having said that, I bid you all farewell and I hope that our paths do not cross in the near future.
~Beth
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Beth: "...I am not interested in feeling angry anymore. It is an emotion that I rarely feel, yet it has been rearing its ugly head ever since I came onto this forum..."
It's merely the anger welling up inside of you at the sudden realization that you've swallowed hook, line, and sinker all of the propagandistic lies the media and every kook group of international socialist "touchie-feelie" girlie-men and "she-he's" have been telling you all your life.
Knowing that we have the truth, and speak the truth, is what is angering you...the thought that our tiny minority, far outnumbered by a hostile world, actually have the truth and intend to fully act on it.
You see, Beth, the Middle East is not "the middle West", and we didn't learn about Mohammedan murderous scum from some bi-sexual professor of "political science" with a specialty in "Islamic studies" or "womyns' studies"!
We've been murdered and raped by "the religion of Piss" for quite some time now, and we have no intention of allowing it to continue.
Pass the word on to your pansy academic friends at your next "sustainable world" convention, or maybe the next time you're out burning Arab oil in your SUV on the way to your Sierra Club meeting reducing your "carbon emissions".
Oh!...and lest I forget...don't forget to go to the Dennis Kucinich speech so you can get up and ask him to "do more to stop the genocide in Darfur"!
That way you can prove that you are really, really, good...someone who really cares....about....social justice....and ....a...sustainable....community!
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Beth: "...This is not a situation that anyone would want to leave behind for his kids to deal with in the future..."
Hey, Beth!
Make sure you leave your address at your college dorm so we can send some "Nation of Islam" boogies over to "dey new HomeLand"!
You b so full of love for dem!....pretend yew in Dafur!
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kahaneloyalist: "...you are right, we musnt leave the Arabs occuping our country for our children."
Kahaneloyalist,
Please do me a favor...will you remind me when it's time to "take out the trash"?
signed,
MassuhDGoodName
p.s.--I've given much thought to my negative feelings about Bush...
Perhaps I've been too quick to judge the man, considering the fact that he has not only ordered the killing of more A-rabs than did Sodomy Hussein, but he's also been responsible for encouraging A-rabs to kill more A-rabs than Sodomy Hussein!
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Apparently Beth only wishes to argue with people that, in her opinion, are hateful, cruel and divisive by stating her opinion and is not so interested in a logical debate. She chooses to ignore my question:
"Why do you think that Islam hates the west?"
Beth, if you are still on the forum and wish to engage in a debate, I await your response.
However, do you believe what the Europeans did was moral? 200 hundred years from now, if the Native American community became stronger and rised up against the system and fought to reclaim their land...a land that was originally theirs; would you support them? Would you willingly give up your land, because hundreds of years ago, it once belonged to someone else?
I highly doubt that you would.
It has nothing to do with Europeans or morality and it is not limited to Native Americans. This has been the way of the world since the beginning of recorded history. Do I like the fact that humanity can't live together in peace but must, what appears to be, constantly war amongst themselves? No. But I am a realist and understand that, for now anyway, this is human nature. It is admirable to pursue peace but peace can only be pursued between two peoples that are after the same outcome. When one desires peace and the other says they desire peace while killing your people, true peace will never be attained. To think otherwise is foolish and suicidal.
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QA4383 can you please tell me what a "P-lestinain" is? What is their history? When was "Pa lestine" ever a nation to be a "nationality" or a "people"? Why is there no mention of any of these "people" in any ancient or modern writing prior to 1967? What is the goal of these peace loving ancient people? Does Jerusalem mean anything within their holy book? What does the Koran and Hadith say about the P lestinian People?
If the Pa lestinain People built the Dome of the rock and Al Aqsa mosque who build that immense stone structure these two shrines sit on today? Were they too built by the P-alestinian People?
By answering any of these questions factually and educatedly you will have proven to yourself the immense propagation thrown onto this subject and too your immense benightedness.
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HMMMM...I dont think this qa4383 Beth person is really Jewish, not even a self hating Jew. Take this as an example, she writes "arabs" with a capital A yet writes "Jews" with a small j.
Please see the following:
What do you want to do with all the Arabs again?... I believe that I read on another post that you wanted to 'wipe them out' or something along those lines. Isn't that what Hitler wanted to with the jews? And I'm assuming that you consider Hitler evil as well...but wait...you want to wipe out Arabs and Hitler wanted to wipe out the jews. ...
Just thought it was odd...I mean someone who writes "Arabs", "Hitler" with CAPITAL letters COULD capitalize "Jews". Just a though.
BETH IS NOT JEWISH! She is most likely Pa lestinian. Or a PEACE NOW supporter. NO reasonable person writes that way about Philistinians. And most likely used a Jewish persona to get onto JTF and write.
Well spotted, Mills!
You're a smart cookie! :)
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You write Jews as nation and jews as religion; I as non Jewish have a questions for QA4383: You writed about "opressed" Balestinian christians and muslims as natives of Israel; Why you and your fellow leftists are not speaking loaudly about plight of native Egyptian who're realy opresssed by muslim A-rab invaders since VIII century? Why Koptic (christians who're descendents of ancient Egiptians) cause is worse than Balaestinians who were invented in 1967? And what is the root of islamic jihad for you if the Jews were massacred in Hebron 1929 by A-rabs long before establishment of Israel and invention of Balestine? I'm waiting for your honest responce.
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Well you're at it, why do you not answer me this: Why are you not so concerned about the once Marionite Christian country of "Lebanon" that was rolled over by the Islamic Syrian Horde that massacred them? I guess you only care if it is the Muslim savage that is harmed and not Jews or Christians. I forgot, "Human" Rights don't apply to Jews and are becoming extinct for Christians as well as time goes on.....