JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rivera on September 09, 2007, 10:58:20 AM
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Come on let's get real. As soon as Chaim Ben Pesach arrives in Israel and sneezes he will be arrested for incitement. the government of Israel is arresting right wing groups for putting up posters! their is no way Chaim Ben Pesach can survive in Israel. the time is just not right.
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I hate to compare to extremists, but similar things were said about let's say Lenin, before he became powerful.
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Come on let's get real. As soon as Chaim Ben Pesach arrives in Israel and sneezes he will be arrested for incitement. the government of Israel is arresting right wing groups for putting up posters! their is no way Chaim Ben Pesach can survive in Israel. the time is just not right.
THINK POSITIVE!
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it is a bad move right now for Chaim to go to Israel. look at all the rightwing groups in Israel. not one can move an inch without being arrested. Chaim would spend most of his time in Israel in jail or in the courts. leaving no time to run for political office.
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I believe that we all must bide our time...1000 People in jail does no better than one on the street...
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Their is a time and a place for everything. Chaim would one day be able to go to Israel but not now. it is better for Chaim to stay in the USA. to go now would be suicide. the goverment of Israel would set him up.
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it is a bad move right now for Chaim to go to Israel. look at all the rightwing groups in Israel. not one can move an inch without being arrested. Chaim would spend most of his time in Israel in jail or in the courts. leaving no time to run for political office.
You might be right about what would happen to him if he goes now. But it probably wouldn't be much different in the future. So if Chaim is going to go, then there's no time like the present. Chaim said that even if he would have to spend all of his time in jail, he'd still rather be in Israel.
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How is he of any use to anyone in Jail? No one can run an organization from an Israeli Jail. I think he should try to go to Judea and Sameria...See if the Government will let him..
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Jewish Store and Rivera, you both might be right. But the decision is Chaim's alone and I support whatever decision he makes.
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A true friend protects his friend! what kind of a friend is someone who knows his friend will put his life in danger and then say it is his choice to put his life in danger.one of two things will happen if Chaim goes to Israel now. he will end up in jail or they will kill him. this is not a joke. timing is everything, and now is not the right time.
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A true friend protects his friend! what kind of a friend is someone who knows his friend will put his life in danger and then say it is his choice to put his life in danger.one of two things will happen if Chaim goes to Israel now. he will end up in jail or they will kill him. this is not a joke. timing is everything, and now is not the right time.
You raise a good point. Why not ask Chaim this on the next Ask JTF show? I'm sure he will be more than happy to address and discuss your concerns.
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Chaim would rather be in jail and do what? look out the window and read books. come on get real. is this his ultimate goal to spend his life in jail were people will forget him. of what good is that? is it not better for him to stay in the USA and run JTF for the good of many people until the timing is right. man I tell you the truth if you guys are friends of Chaim Ben Pesach I would hate to see his enemies.
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Chaim would rather be in jail and do what? look out the window and read books. come on get real. is this his ultimate goal to spend his life in jail were people will forget him. of what good is that? is it not better for him to stay in the USA and run JTF for the good of many people until the timing is right. man I tell you the truth if you guys are friends of Chaim Ben Pesach I would hate to see his enemies.
Well, what do you expect us to do? Plead with Chaim not to go to Israel now? I think it's very fair to say that Chaim knows what's best for Chaim. All we can do is voice our opinions, but at the end of the day, Chaim will ultimately be the one to make the decision for himself. We should support his decision regardless of what it is.
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many of the right wing groups in Israel has been infiltrated. the Israeli police has people working inside the right wing groups. If Chaim goes to Israel he will meet up with right wing groups that has been infiltrated by the police. and they will set him up.
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Rivera..........
I don't know wheteher you're a troll or just a garden-variety fool.
Chaim ben Pesach is the most savvy, (honest) political operator on the Jewish right. He has his finger well-and-truly on the pulse of Israeli politics. We can ALL safely assume he KNOWS what he's doing!
Rivera.............
Knock off your BS RIGHT NOW!!!!!
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So was Rabbi kahana and look what happen to him!
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Was anyone more prepare then rabbi Kahana to lead Israel? Yet Hashem did not let him succeed. Why ? It was not Hashem's will. Everything that happen to Rabbi kahana was Hashem's will. Hashem is in control of everything. On Rosh Hashanah in the year that Rabbi kahana died it was decreed by Hashem that the Rabbi was to die. On Rosh Hashanah Hashem decides our fate. Kahanah was more prepared to lead Israel then Chaim ben peasach. yet you newman get angry at me for posting my concerns that Chaim will have trouble if he goes to Israel now. who was the second best person to lead Israel? His son Benjamin. and what happen to him was what happen to his father Rabbi Kahanah. It is clear to me that it is not Hashem will that the Kahanah movement succeed now. It may succeed in the future but who knows.
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Gd willing when chaim first goes to israel he should work on getting married first and not put so much focus on the political party and activism.. My advice, when he gets to Israel, go to Amuka first and soon, hopefully, meet his future wife and go from there.
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Then may Hashem bless Chaim to find his soul mate and have as many children as Hashem has decreed for him. May Hashem open the doors of Israel to him so that he can prosper in good health and every other area. may one of his sons be born to become moshiach.
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Then may Hashem bless Chaim to find his soul mate and have as many children as Hashem has decreed for him. May Hashem open the doors of Israel to him so that he can prosper in good health and every other area. may one of his sons be born to become moshiach.
well...moshiach...is Chaim from the line of David?
And moshiach..come on...let's first work on becoming better people and thinking straight not worry so much about moshiach...he will come when he comes..we have to do what we have to do and not worry about it so much lest we forget our focus.
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Well how do you know that Chaim is not from the line of david? you will be surprise!
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Well how do you know that Chaim is not from the line of david? you will be surprise!
What would the odds be? I may also be from the line of David...but who knows?
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It is possible that Chaim calling is to produce mosiach. look in the Tanach and see how many men had children late in life. And what their calling was.
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Was anyone more prepare then rabbi Kahana to lead Israel? Yet Hashem did not let him succeed. Why ? It was not Hashem's will. Everything that happen to Rabbi kahana was Hashem's will. Hashem is in control of everything. On Rosh Hashanah in the year that Rabbi kahana died it was decreed by Hashem that the Rabbi was to die. On Rosh Hashanah Hashem decides our fate. Kahanah was more prepared to lead Israel then Chaim ben peasach. yet you newman get angry at me for posting my concerns that Chaim will have trouble if he goes to Israel now. who was the second best person to lead Israel? His son Benjamin. and what happen to him was what happen to his father Rabbi Kahanah. It is clear to me that it is not Hashem will that the Kahanah movement succeed now. It may succeed in the future but who knows.
Pure bull [censored]. YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT G-D's PLAN IS SO STOP PLAYING G-D. What arrogance you have. G-d also decreed that Samson and Eli should die but the Jews did not give up, they found other Judges to lead them. It's easy to make up excuses and to do nothing but learn, but these are dumb excuses and you have no clue what G-d's plan is. We must march forward and do what the Torah obligates us to do without holding back. What ultimate plan G-d has in unknowable to us so never say that you know what G-d's plan is or can even guess it, "that which is hidden is for Hashem our G-d, but what is revealed is for us and our children forever to do all the words of this Torah".
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The Torah is very clear. Hashem is in control of everything. no one dies without Hashem approving it. this is basic Torah. it was not Hashem will for kahnanh to lead Israel. or his son.
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The Torah is very clear. Hashem is in control of everything. no one dies without Hashem approving it. this is basic Torah. it was not Hashem will for kahnanh to lead Israel. or his son.
And HOW DO YOU KNOW it's not G-d's will to have a Kahanist leader? Are you a prophet? Did G-d tell you this? Are you hallucinating? Are you from the informer organization Revava?
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How do you know that it is G-Ds will to have a Kahanist lead Israel? remember king David lead Israel in the Name of the Lrd. you what to lead Israel in the name of kahanah . and that is were the difference is. Hashem chose not to let Kahana or his son lead. why?
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How do you know that it is G-Ds will to have a Kahanist lead Israel? remember king David lead Israel in the Name of the Lrd. you what to lead Israel in the name of kahanah . and that is were the difference is. Hashem chose not to let Kahana or his son lead. why?
It is not in our power to understand G-d. G-d also killed Rabbi Akivah and a whole bunch of great Rabbis over the years. According to you this means that G-d rejects Rabbis because he killed some of them. Similarly, there was a righteous king of Israel that G-d killed, so according to you G-d rejected the Davidic dynasty because of this. See how you make no sense and are illogical. G-d also wiped out all of the decendants and close relatives of Judea the Macabee as they were murdered by the evil kings of Judea but we still celebrate Hanukah my friend. According to you this would show it was not G-d's will for the Macabees to overthrow Greek rule over Israel since Judea the Macabee was killed and all his decendants were murdered as well. It's time for you to stop acting boastfully dumb and know that it is impossible to understand why G-d lets the righteous suffer and understand that you can never know G-d's ultimate plan.
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You are putting words in my mouth. all I said was Kahana was better prepare to lead Israel then Chaim. and it was not G-ds will to let him rule. his son Benjamen was the second most prepare to lead and he suffer the same fate. David died King of Israel so he fulfilled his calling. and
Hashem promise that his seed will continue to rule as kings. But Kahanah and his son did not get to rule at all. Chaim will not stand a chance in Israel. as soon as he gets their you know they will set him up. may Hashem bring Mosiach soon.
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Possibly you are right that G-d will not let Chaim lead. But perhaps G-d will let him lead. We don't know G-d's plan. Even if we are ten generations away from the great leader R' Kahane Zs'l, a Kahanist leader may still emerge, we must not give up hope simply because the decline of the generations. When the Sun sets, the moon rises. Let us not forget that Israel did not mourn the death of Joshua properly since they thought that he was nothing compared to Moses and remember that G-d punished Israel for this. Later Generations realized that their great leaders were only a fraction of the greatness of Joshua. So remember that even if Chaim is not on the caliber of certain giants that have passed away, G-d may still chose him to lead.
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Was anyone more prepare then rabbi Kahana to lead Israel? Yet Hashem did not let him succeed. Why ? It was not Hashem's will. Everything that happen to Rabbi kahana was Hashem's will. Hashem is in control of everything. On Rosh Hashanah in the year that Rabbi kahana died it was decreed by Hashem that the Rabbi was to die. On Rosh Hashanah Hashem decides our fate. Kahanah was more prepared to lead Israel then Chaim ben peasach. yet you newman get angry at me for posting my concerns that Chaim will have trouble if he goes to Israel now. who was the second best person to lead Israel? His son Benjamin. and what happen to him was what happen to his father Rabbi Kahanah. It is clear to me that it is not Hashem will that the Kahanah movement succeed now. It may succeed in the future but who knows.
Chaim has mentioned on a recent Ask JTF program that he knows full well that once he gets into Israel, there's a good chance he might be killed or that someone will try to kill him. But he's ready to face that possibility. Rabbi Kahane never let fear deter him and neither has Chaim. You can't let fear hold you back from your destiny.
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listen Hashem may very well choose him. but the fact is it does not look for him if he goes to Israel now. and I personally believe that it could well be one of his sons not yet born who is to lead.
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The modern State of Israel was built (in part) by people who worked themselves to death reclaiming land, draining swamps etc.
Imagine if after a few (of the many) died and the rest said " Oh well, that tears it. G_D doesn't want us here"!
Rivera, you're talking bollox!!
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listen Hashem may very well choose him. but the fact is it does not look for him if he goes to Israel now. and I personally believe that it could well be one of his sons not yet born who is to lead.
If that is the case, then that's all the more reason for Chaim to go to Israel so he can meet and marry a nice Israeli gal and have children who will follow his legacy.
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Revera, you are right, the game is not in our favor. But us Kahanists are crazy people who have too much faith in G-d. R' Kahane had this "crazy" idea that he can free over a million Russian Jews and force Russia to open up the iron curtain. Amost all the Rabbis called him crazy. But he succeeded and did free Russian Jewry.
He also had this "crazy" idea that a few hundred people in the JDL could defend the Jews against thousands of criminals and gangs in dangerous neighborhoods and make them fear Jews. Well, it worked pretty well in the 1970's.
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Listen I personally believe that his son not yet born will be the one to rule. if I am right then he will win his case and move to Israel. he will find a wife and bear a son who will be Hatorah and rule Israel. May Hashem bring Mosiach soon.
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Come on let's get real. As soon as Chaim Ben Pesach arrives in Israel and sneezes he will be arrested for incitement. the government of Israel is arresting right wing groups for putting up posters! their is no way Chaim Ben Pesach can survive in Israel. the time is just not right.
Amigo, don't worry... Chaim's case has been pushed through from a very high level.
He will enter Israel either as a new immigrant or as a ready-to-appoint prime-minister.
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Listen I personally believe that his son not yet born will be the one to rule. if I am right then he will win his case and move to Israel. he will find a wife and bear a son who will be Hatorah and rule Israel. May Hashem bring Mosiach soon.
rivera, you sound silly trying to sound like a prophet..you should know better..Gd stopped with the prophets a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago..
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Let's not jump to any conclusions yet, Rivera!
Chaim know his situation best and WE must respect all that he has done and is still trying to do to get into Israel.
G-d only knows what his off springs will be!
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Was Rabbi Kanhana a prophet when he warn about the Arabs in Isarel? no! but he was right. people sometimes just know.
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Was anyone more prepare then rabbi Kahana to lead Israel? Yet Hashem did not let him succeed. Why ? It was not Hashem's will. Everything that happen to Rabbi kahana was Hashem's will. Hashem is in control of everything. On Rosh Hashanah in the year that Rabbi kahana died it was decreed by Hashem that the Rabbi was to die. On Rosh Hashanah Hashem decides our fate. Kahanah was more prepared to lead Israel then Chaim ben peasach. yet you newman get angry at me for posting my concerns that Chaim will have trouble if he goes to Israel now. who was the second best person to lead Israel? His son Benjamin. and what happen to him was what happen to his father Rabbi Kahanah. It is clear to me that it is not Hashem will that the Kahanah movement succeed now. It may succeed in the future but who knows.
Chaim has mentioned on a recent Ask JTF program that he knows full well that once he gets into Israel, there's a good chance he might be killed or that someone will try to kill him. But he's ready to face that possibility. Rabbi Kahane never let fear deter him and neither has Chaim. You can't let fear hold you back from your destiny.
Good post Daniel; Rivera sounds like some defetist; Chaim will not help Israel if he won't go there out of the fear; Besides waiting for what that Shmolmert will sell Israeli land to Arabs for hudna? or Piss Now surrender the rest? the 40 years probation time from liberaton of Jerusalem is coming; We cannot wait any more or risk G-d's wratch like Israelites who died on dessert becouse they were afraid to enter promised land out of fear of Kananites.
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OK so when are you going to Israel. when is every Jewish person here at jtf going to Israel. you are so ready for Chaim to go and maybe go to jail or be killed. why don't you follow him?
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OK so when are you going to Israel. when is every Jewish person here at jtf going to Israel. you are so ready for Chaim to go and maybe go to jail or be killed. why don't you follow him?
I'm not Jewish. This is what stops me.
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I am also concerned that Chaim will be arrested immediately and no longer be able to serve the torah cause in the capacity that he does, but while the odds don't look great, hashem performs miracles. If it is the will of hashem for Chaim to return to eretz yisrael(even if it is in prison), in the long run, this will serve the torah cause much greater than if he stays here.
Chaim has already served time in prison, so it's not like he doesn't know what he is getting into. At least he'll have kosher food this time. If they lock him up, this will be an opportunity for him to study torah and earn Semicha. If they don't, it is a chance for him to fight for the land and find a wife. In any case, I have no doubts that he will succeed.
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too few people have any clue who chaim is in Israel...I have even ask some lay people and they all laughed that he didn't have a chance in the world to stir anything up..
If that is a fact, then I think the Israeli govt will leave him alone...they'll think that he is such an underdog that they'll consider Chaim to be an ant.
And that will be Gd's miracle if they do end up leaving him alone.
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I think there is a reason why Chaim is not in Israel- G-D -it's not the right time
But that is just my thoughts
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Listen! Chaim is HaTorah so he should know this. there is a Torah prohibition not to put one self in harms way. if a Jewish person knows that if he goes to a certain place and he will be harm or kill. the Torah forbides that Jewish person from going there.
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Therefore, no Jew should ever fight in a war?!
ummm...it's not prohibited for a Jew to risk his/her life to save other innocent Jews' lives...This is, perhaps what Rav Kahane and Chaim ben Pesach have done and are doing...
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Their are exceptions. Soldiers who are in the army, police men etc. But Chaim's case is different.
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how is it an exception? things are somewhat urgent over there. but granted, if he makes it in now, no one will even know who he is..so i can assure you, there will hardly be any danger.
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how is it an exception? things are somewhat urgent over there. but granted, if he makes it in now, no one will even know who he is..so i can assure you, there will hardly be any danger.
the only thing Chaim can do in Israel right now is get arrested or G-D forbid get kill! the Torah forbids people to put them self's in harms why
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"Present" for Chaim before he goes to the Israel... 8) ;)
(http://www.dragutin-knezevic-krunica.com/www.Dragutin-Knezevic-Krunica.comgrb-Dinarska-Divizija.JPG)
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"Present" for Chaim before he goes to the Israel... 8) ;)
(http://www.dragutin-knezevic-krunica.com/www.Dragutin-Knezevic-Krunica.comgrb-Dinarska-Divizija.JPG)
Chaim is Jewish he would not wear a CROSS
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Listen! Chaim is HaTorah so he should know this. there is a Torah prohibition not to put one self in harms way. if a Jewish person knows that if he goes to a certain place and he will be harm or kill. the Torah forbides that Jewish person from going there.
I think Rabbi Kahane would have completely disagreed with you on this. He never let fear stop him from going to any dangerous place where he could have been harmed or killed. He went to the Nazi Headquarters in Skokie, IL, he stood outside the Black Panthers headquarters, whenever an arab tried to heckle or harass him, he didn't shy away or flinch like we'd expect a Jew to do, he just pushed them right back. So was the Rabbi in violation of the torah when he did this? I personally admire and respect a great deal the fearlessness that Kahane operated with. The only thing I disagree with is him going around without sufficient security and protection. If Chaim ben Pesach wasn't in jail, there's no doubt in my mind that Chaim would have been there to protect Kahane and that piece of [censored] Nosair wouldn't have gotten near the Rabbi.
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Was Rabbi Kanhana a prophet when he warn about the Arabs in Isarel? no! but he was right. people sometimes just know.
That might be true, but you my friend, are no Rabbi Kahane! :)
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Chaim is Jewish he would not wear a CROSS
I know, but that is something for him from my people. He should no wear it, i do not want to ;)
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Listen! Chaim is HaTorah so he should know this. there is a Torah prohibition not to put one self in harms way. if a Jewish person knows that if he goes to a certain place and he will be harm or kill. the Torah forbides that Jewish person from going there.
I think Rabbi Kahane would have completely disagreed with you on this. He never let fear stop him from going to any dangerous place where he could have been harmed or killed. He went to the Nazi Headquarters in Skokie, IL, he stood outside the Black Panthers headquarters, whenever an arab tried to heckle or harass him, he didn't shy away or flinch like we'd expect a Jew to do, he just pushed them right back. So was the Rabbi in violation of the Torah when he did this? I personally admire and respect a great deal the fearlessness that Kahane operated with. The only thing I disagree with is him going around without sufficient security and protection. If Chaim Ben Pesach wasn't in jail, there's no doubt in my mind that Chaim would have been there to protect Kahane and that piece of excrement Nosair wouldn't have gotten near the Rabbi.
The fact is that the Torah warning not to put one self in harms way prove true in the life of Rabbi kahane he was killed. the Torah is there to guide us. if we reject certain teachings of the Torah then it will come back to bite us. there is a difference between self defence and looking for trouble. if the black panthers went to him to harm him then of course he will be right to fight them this is not putting ones self in harm way. the same thing with the Nazi's if they went to kahane to kill him then he should kill them first. but the Torah is clear. the Torah must guide us.
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OK so when are you going to Israel. when is every Jewish person here at jtf going to Israel. you are so ready for Chaim to go and maybe go to jail or be killed. why don't you follow him?
If I could, I would without any hesitation. Israel needs to be freed from its corrupt leaders and rid of the islamic cancer just waiting to destroy every inch of the Jewish homeland. IMHO, being Jewish does not have to be a prerequisite to join this cause.
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Was Rabbi Kanhana a prophet when he warn about the Arabs in Isarel? no! but he was right. people sometimes just know.
That might be true, but you my friend, are no Rabbi Kahane! :)
You missed my point! first I would not like to be a rabbi Kahane. I am happy with who I am. Hashem does not make mistakes with creation. My point was that people can have insight into certain things and be right with out being a prophet.
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Where does the Torah forbid someone from putting themselves in harms way?
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Where does the Torah forbid someone from putting themselves in harms way?
http://www.aish.com/societyWork/work/Taking_a_Risk.asp (http://www.aish.com/societyWork/work/Taking_a_Risk.asp)
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Whether Chaim is putting himself in harms way as the Torah describes it is a very weak argument. He's not putting himself in any danger too different that any Israeli Politician, Israeli Settler, or member of the IDF during a war. Even if he is putting himself in grave danger, it is permitted to do so in this instance to bring the Massiah.
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Stop this nonsense!
Torah prohibits engagement in evil activities that are harmful to yourself and others.
Drugs are evil, alcoholism is evil, gambling is evil, speeding on the road just to show off is evil.
Now, compare it with risking your life to save your people, your country. Feeling the difference?
Legitimate cowardice is against Torah. Cowardice and not the strength of not engaging yourself into idiotic activities.
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Stop this nonsense!
Torah prohibits engagement in evil activities that are harmful to yourself and others.
Drugs are evil, alcoholism is evil, gambling is evil, speeding on the road just to show off is evil.
Now, compare it with risking your life to save your people, your country. Feeling the difference?
Legitimate cowardice is against Torah. Cowardice and not the strength of not engaging yourself into idiotic activities.
being obedient to the Torah commandment not to put oneself in harms way does not make a person a Coward. their is a reason for this Torah teaching. many people in life get a head of them self's and wind up outside the will of Hashem. I believe this Happen to Rabbi Kahane. Rabbi Kahane was not chosen By G-D to be Israel leader. And his son Benjamin also was not chosen by G-D to be Israel leader. they both died according to the will of Hashem who on Rosh Hashana decreed that they were to died. what was their mistake? they appointed themselves to be Israels l leader out side the Will of G-D. Chaim is following the same direction they took. if we do not accept all of the Torah teachins in our lifes then we will always be outside of the will of G-D.
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Chaim should not go ::) There is one big Serbian patriot called Vojislav Seselj who went to Haag. Four years he is there but trial has not started yet. He was protesting by not taking food for 20 days and almost died. He is the leader of the strongest political party in Serbia.
CHAIM DO NOT MAKE A SAME MISTAKE
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Chaim should not go ::) There is one big Serbian patriot called Vojislav Seselj who went to Haag. Four years he is there but trial has not started yet. He was protesting by not taking food for 20 days and almost died. He is the leader of the strongest political party in Serbia.
CHAIM DO NOT MAKE A SAME MISTAKE
Thank you Serbian leader.
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i will say one thing that may seem to be in agreement with Rivera:
A good politician doesn't shout and scream and sound obvious.
A good politician first becomes popular without expressing his/her views...and then eventually subtly make them known..
The laws of social behavior shows that the majority of people follow th emost popular person even if they have no clue who he/she is.
So in chaim's case...brave as he is..and obvious with his views and certainly unpopular with the powerful minority, may not get very far in the next 5-20 years once he makes aliya (I hope I'm wrong).
Just as communism in the 80's was unpopular in the US...look where we are today...a little mouse squeaked in the ears of liberals who squeaked in the ears of socialists and from the bottom up took over the media...and look at their power today.
But i know chaim well enough...he's not a rebel rouser anymore like he used to be. A Much quieter demeanor and more logical. Definately captivating, but needs more work on his speaking...repeats himself A LOT!
With the right strategy in Israel, the most important thing is to become popular before running in the knesset. Better to have a pawn who agrees with him to run on his behalf if they want to see if any Kahanists will come to power.
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Stop this nonsense!
Torah prohibits engagement in evil activities that are harmful to yourself and others.
Drugs are evil, alcoholism is evil, gambling is evil, speeding on the road just to show off is evil.
Now, compare it with risking your life to save your people, your country. Feeling the difference?
Legitimate cowardice is against Torah. Cowardice and not the strength of not engaging yourself into idiotic activities.
being obedient to the Torah commandment not to put oneself in harms way does not make a person a Coward. their is a reason for this Torah teaching. many people in life get a head of them self's and wind up outside the will of Hashem. I believe this Happen to Rabbi Kahane. Rabbi Kahane was not chosen By G-D to be Israel leader. And his son Benjamin also was not chosen by G-D to be Israel leader. they both died according to the will of Hashem who on Rosh Hashana decreed that they were to died. what was their mistake? they appointed themselves to be Israels l leader out side the Will of G-D. Chaim is following the same direction they took. if we do not accept all of the Torah teachins in our lifes then we will always be outside of the will of G-D.
I know many people disagreed with Kahane, but I've never seen the rationale explained from a perspective like this before. The fact that Rabbi Kahane and his son were murdered in and of itself is self-evident that G-d didn't intend for them to be Israel's leaders? I disagree with this notion. G-d gives man free will and Rabbi Kahane according to his own free will chose to take on a strong leadership role as well as the free will that was given to the Al Queda scum Nosair who killed him.
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Rabbi Kahane was not chosen By G-D to be Israel leader. And his son Benjamin also was not chosen by G-D to be Israel leader. they both died according to the will of Hashem who on Rosh Hashana decreed that they were to died. what was their mistake? they appointed themselves to be Israels l leader out side the Will of G-D.
Your response disturbs me.
Both Rabbis ZT'L were humble and did what they did merely because of what Hashem commanded them to do. Neither of them appointed themselves as the leader of Israel(even though they were both deserving of the position as king) and both would have loved to see someone even more successful liberate the land.
The blood of the Cohenim is strong in their family. In heaven they are now serving as angels. Their offspring will once again serve as priests when the temple is finally rebuilt. Long live the mitzvot of the Kahane family.
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Your response disturbs me.
Both Rabbis ZT'L were humble and did what they did merely because of what Hashem commanded them to do. Neither of them appointed themselves as the leader of Israel(even though they were both deserving of the position as king) and both would have loved to see someone even more successful liberate the land.
The blood of the Cohenim is strong in their family. In heaven they are now serving as angels. Their offspring will once again serve as priests when the temple is finally rebuilt. Long live the mitzvot of the Kahane family.
Amen!
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Your response disturbs me.
Both Rabbis ZT'L were humble and did what they did merely because of what Hashem commanded them to do. Neither of them appointed themselves as the leader of Israel(even though they were both deserving of the position as king) and both would have loved to see someone even more successful liberate the land.
The blood of the Cohenim is strong in their family. In heaven they are now serving as angels. Their offspring will once again serve as priests when the temple is finally rebuilt. Long live the mitzvot of the Kahane family.
Amen!
well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
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I would agree and say that it was not G-d's will for them to lead Israel because Israel was not worthy. Had Israel been worthy, then G-d would have let them lead as Hashem brought two incredibly righteous Rabbis into this world who were potential Kings and it was up to the generation to be worthy enough for them to lead. Had they lived in the generation of Moshiach then they would have led Israel to its glory.
And we must not mourn the fact that they were not able to bring the Moshaich and lead the nation of Israel. They accomplished tremendous feats during their lifetimes and led the people of Israel in other ways. They were a tremendous guiding light during their lifetime.
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I won’t say what G-d wanted to do with Rabbi Kahane because I am not a prophet, and most importantly, I am not a demagogue.
I think Rabbi Kahane appeared in the wrong time – time when Jews had false hopes in self-power and power of western values.
As more and more western societies decay, more and more people see that those utopist hopes are vanishing.
That’s why today Jews are more ready for Kahanism that they were before.
Having said that, Kahanism derives from Rabbi Kahane's teachings, and without him we would not have all those answers that he knew so precisely.
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Zvulan brought up a good point. We are not prophets and we can not predict what G-d's plan is. We have to do what is correct, what the Torah wants us to do; and if G-d gives us certain talents we are required to use those talents to our fullest extent. That also means taking risks as most people who make tremendous accomplishments did so by taking large risks both in the Torah and in the secular world.
Taking a defeatist attitude and saying that you should sit on your tuchas and not do anything since perhaps G-d will not let you succeed is a very evil thing to do against the Torah and against Judaism. It only shows your lack of faith in G-d and lack of faith in the Torah. The only way you Revera will do anything is if G-d tells you specifically that you will succeed and surely know that this will not happen and it is not the way of Hashem. He wants us to follow his Torah and to not expect guaranteed success, that is up to G-d. And not succeeding in a certain goal does not mean that our efforts were not correct or a waste either as no one completely understands why G-d lets people doing what he commanded to not succeed.
And yes, saying that we have to "wait for Moshiach to come" to do anything to save Israel or to save the Jewish people is also a defeatest attitude and is against the Torah. Only lazy people who don't do anything themselves say this so that their conscious shouldn't be bothered for their lack of action.
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Zvulan brought up a good point. We are not prophets and we can not predict what G-d's plan is. We have to do what is correct, what the Torah wants us to do; and if G-d gives us certain talents we are required to use those talents to our fullest extent. That also means taking risks as most people who make tremendous accomplishments did so by taking large risks both in the Torah and in the secular world.
Taking a defeatist attitude and saying that you should sit on your tuchas and not do anything since perhaps G-d will not let you succeed is a very evil thing to do against the Torah and against Judaism. It only shows your lack of faith in G-d and lack of faith in the Torah. The only way you Revera will do anything is if G-d tells you specifically that you will succeed and surely know that this will not happen and it is not the way of Hashem. He wants us to follow his Torah and to not expect guaranteed success, that is up to G-d. And not succeeding in a certain goal does not mean that our efforts were not correct or a waste either as no one completely understands why G-d lets people doing what he commanded to not succeed.
And yes, saying that we have to "wait for Moshiach to come" to do anything to save Israel or to save the Jewish people is also a defeatest attitude and is against the Torah. Only lazy people who don't do anything themselves say this so that their conscious shouldn't be bothered for their lack of action.
In the book of PROVERBS 14:12 it says There is a way that seems right to a man, but at its end are the ways of death. King Solomen in his wisdom wrote this. We must examine our self's to see if what we are doing is right or we are just going our way in spite of the will of G-D! You do not have to be a prophet to know that it was not the will of Hashem that Rabbi Kahane and his son Benjamen lead Israel. they died according to the will of Hashem. Hashem in his mercy gives man signs in his life so man can examin himself and correct himself. Kahane was stop from going any father then he did in his politico life. he was at a dead end towards the end of his life. did Hashem give him warning signs so he could take a different direction in his life OF COURSE. Hashem gives all of us signs in our life so that we make the right choice. But sometimes we are blind with our own ambition to do our will instead of the will of G-D.
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well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
Perhaps I need to point out the difference between lead and rule. Both Rabbi's were great leaders who inspired other leaders such as Chaim for generations to come. These Rabbi's afterall were only human beings, but served as examples for all Jews to follow. While it wasn't hashems will for them to rule the land, they did lead Israel.
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I think it is too soon in history to draw conclusions on what Gd meant to do by not keeping Kahane and his son around.
One may speculate (I personally don't) that the type of "firebrand Judaism" that Kahane and his son offered for Israel and the Jewish people is wrong for us ALL TOGETHER, and that's why Gd never kept them alive and will never allow anyone like that to rule over us.
Rivera, I think it's best not to ponder what Gd is thinking when it comes down to recent history or, for that matter not to ponder any of Gd's actions until history ends and messiah arrives..because it will be at that time when history will make sense.
Bottom line, it was good when all of these things happened. It was good because Gd meant it for it to happen for something right that happened later or that will happen later...plain and simple.
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well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
Perhaps I need to point out the difference between lead and rule. Both Rabbi's were great leaders who inspired other leaders such as Chaim for generations to come. These Rabbi's afterall were only human beings, but served as examples for all Jews to follow. While it wasn't hashems will for them to rule the land, they did lead Israel.
Their is a difference between lead and rule! But both Kahane and his son meant to rule not lead. and I think that was their downfull because it was not the will of Hashem for them to rule. it was not what hashem wanted for Israel something was obviously lagging in these men for Hashem to take them away. The kind of rule that Kahane and his son wanted for Israel can only be brought By Moshach.
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well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
Perhaps I need to point out the difference between lead and rule. Both Rabbi's were great leaders who inspired other leaders such as Chaim for generations to come. These Rabbi's afterall were only human beings, but served as examples for all Jews to follow. While it wasn't hashems will for them to rule the land, they did lead Israel.
Their is a difference between lead and rule! But both Kahane and his son meant to rule not lead. and I think that was their downfull because it was not the will of Hashem for them to rule. it was not what hashem wanted for Israel something was obviously lagging in these men for Hashem to take them away. The kind of rule that Kahane and his son wanted for Israel can only be brought By Moshach.
OK, you are wrong in all respects.
Let's confirm two major points of Rabbi Kahane's platform:
1) Arabs out of Israel;
2) Israel is a Jewish State.
Mashiah has to do this?
Where in the Torah it says that Israel has to be a moronic, perverted state with enemies living inside? Where?
Rabbi Kahane was not going to do Mashiah's job, he would do what every normal Jew should have done anyway.
You have to be a moron if you think that Mashiah has to come to protect you from your own stupidity of allowing a snake live in your house.
You have to be a dirtiest pervert to allow the Jewish state to become a state of homos, sluts, and satanists.
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well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
Perhaps I need to point out the difference between lead and rule. Both Rabbi's were great leaders who inspired other leaders such as Chaim for generations to come. These Rabbi's afterall were only human beings, but served as examples for all Jews to follow. While it wasn't hashems will for them to rule the land, they did lead Israel.
Their is a difference between lead and rule! But both Kahane and his son meant to rule not lead. and I think that was their downfull because it was not the will of Hashem for them to rule. it was not what hashem wanted for Israel something was obviously lagging in these men for Hashem to take them away. The kind of rule that Kahane and his son wanted for Israel can only be brought By Moshach.
OK, you are wrong in all respects.
Let's confirm two major points of Rabbi Kahane's platform:
1) Arabs out of Israel;
2) Israel is a Jewish State.
Mashiah has to do this?
Where in the Torah it says that Israel has to be a moronic, perverted state with enemies living inside? Where?
Rabbi Kahane was not going to do Mashiah's job, he would do what every normal Jew should have done anyway.
You have to be a moron if you think that Mashiah has to come to protect you from your own stupidity of allowing a snake live in your house.
You have to be a dirtiest pervert to allow the Jewish state to become a state of homos, sluts, and satanists.
well the fact is Hashem did not allow Rabbi Kahana and his son to succeed. Why? Why did Hashem stop them. Does Hashem want a Jewish state of homos, sluts, and satanists? of course not! the EREV RAV is controlling Israel right now. and our sages said that in the time of the footsteps of the MASHIAH the EREV RAV WILL BE THE SHEEPHERDS OF ISRAEL. We are in G-D's timing, and G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing.
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well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
Perhaps I need to point out the difference between lead and rule. Both Rabbi's were great leaders who inspired other leaders such as Chaim for generations to come. These Rabbi's afterall were only human beings, but served as examples for all Jews to follow. While it wasn't hashems will for them to rule the land, they did lead Israel.
Their is a difference between lead and rule! But both Kahane and his son meant to rule not lead. and I think that was their downfull because it was not the will of Hashem for them to rule. it was not what hashem wanted for Israel something was obviously lagging in these men for Hashem to take them away. The kind of rule that Kahane and his son wanted for Israel can only be brought By Moshach.
OK, you are wrong in all respects.
Let's confirm two major points of Rabbi Kahane's platform:
1) Arabs out of Israel;
2) Israel is a Jewish State.
Mashiah has to do this?
Where in the Torah it says that Israel has to be a moronic, perverted state with enemies living inside? Where?
Rabbi Kahane was not going to do Mashiah's job, he would do what every normal Jew should have done anyway.
You have to be a moron if you think that Mashiah has to come to protect you from your own stupidity of allowing a snake live in your house.
You have to be a dirtiest pervert to allow the Jewish state to become a state of homos, sluts, and satanists.
well the fact is Hashem did not allow Rabbi Kahana and his son to succeed. Why? Why did Hashem stop them. Does Hashem want a Jewish state of homos, sluts, and satanists? of course not! the EREV RAV is controlling Israel right now. and our sages said that in the time of the footsteps of the MASHIAH the EREV RAV WILL BE THE SHEEPHERDS OF ISRAEL. We are in G-D's timing, and G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing.
You ask: "Why did HaShem stop Rabbi Kahane and his son?"
My opinion:
a) He did not stop them. He did not save them, but He did not kill them.
b) Who said Rabbi Kahane and his son had to be the only two people who cared about Jews? What are we for? Are we preaching cowardice and loserism again? This is our people, our land! We have to take care of it ourselves, each and every one, and not wait for some imaginary savior to do it for us.
You are talking about G-d's timing... OK... Then why won't you talk about G-d's world, which is built on the basis of free will and balance.
This means that if you are, having free will, choose to be a coward, you will be stepped on, untill you decide to be a winner and not a loser. G-d won't come and save you simply because He did not teach you to be this way.
"G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing?" Are you Jewish?
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well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
Perhaps I need to point out the difference between lead and rule. Both Rabbi's were great leaders who inspired other leaders such as Chaim for generations to come. These Rabbi's afterall were only human beings, but served as examples for all Jews to follow. While it wasn't hashems will for them to rule the land, they did lead Israel.
Their is a difference between lead and rule! But both Kahane and his son meant to rule not lead. and I think that was their downfull because it was not the will of Hashem for them to rule. it was not what hashem wanted for Israel something was obviously lagging in these men for Hashem to take them away. The kind of rule that Kahane and his son wanted for Israel can only be brought By Moshach.
OK, you are wrong in all respects.
Let's confirm two major points of Rabbi Kahane's platform:
1) Arabs out of Israel;
2) Israel is a Jewish State.
Mashiah has to do this?
Where in the Torah it says that Israel has to be a moronic, perverted state with enemies living inside? Where?
Rabbi Kahane was not going to do Mashiah's job, he would do what every normal Jew should have done anyway.
You have to be a moron if you think that Mashiah has to come to protect you from your own stupidity of allowing a snake live in your house.
You have to be a dirtiest pervert to allow the Jewish state to become a state of homos, sluts, and satanists.
well the fact is Hashem did not allow Rabbi Kahana and his son to succeed. Why? Why did Hashem stop them. Does Hashem want a Jewish state of homos, sluts, and satanists? of course not! the EREV RAV is controlling Israel right now. and our sages said that in the time of the footsteps of the MASHIAH the EREV RAV WILL BE THE SHEEPHERDS OF ISRAEL. We are in G-D's timing, and G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing.
You ask: "Why did HaShem stop Rabbi Kahane and his son?"
My opinion:
a) He did not stop them. He did not save them, but He did not kill them.
b) Who said Rabbi Kahane and his son had to be the only two people who cared about Jews? What are we for? Are we preaching cowardice and loserism again? This is our people, our land! We have to take care of it ourselves, each and every one, and not wait for some imaginary savior to do it for us.
You are talking about G-d's timing... OK... Then why won't you talk about G-d's world, which is built on the basis of free will and balance.
This means that if you are, having free will, choose to be a coward, you will be stepped on, until you decide to be a winner and not a loser. G-d won't come and save you simply because He did not teach you to be this way.
"G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing?" Are you Jewish?
Your opinion is G-D did not stop Kahane and his son, G-D did not save them, G-D did not kill them? you must not know this so let me tell you. G-D is in controll. on Rosh Hashana G-D decides who will live who will die who by fire , who by water. my imaginary savior is Hashem who will send Moshach to bring redemption.
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Rivera, bottom line...it was a good think they were murdered. It was also a bad thing they were murdered...
Honestly, Gd knows best.. You aren't Gd to give reasons of what His thoughts are.
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well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
Perhaps I need to point out the difference between lead and rule. Both Rabbi's were great leaders who inspired other leaders such as Chaim for generations to come. These Rabbi's afterall were only human beings, but served as examples for all Jews to follow. While it wasn't hashems will for them to rule the land, they did lead Israel.
Their is a difference between lead and rule! But both Kahane and his son meant to rule not lead. and I think that was their downfull because it was not the will of Hashem for them to rule. it was not what hashem wanted for Israel something was obviously lagging in these men for Hashem to take them away. The kind of rule that Kahane and his son wanted for Israel can only be brought By Moshach.
OK, you are wrong in all respects.
Let's confirm two major points of Rabbi Kahane's platform:
1) Arabs out of Israel;
2) Israel is a Jewish State.
Mashiah has to do this?
Where in the Torah it says that Israel has to be a moronic, perverted state with enemies living inside? Where?
Rabbi Kahane was not going to do Mashiah's job, he would do what every normal Jew should have done anyway.
You have to be a moron if you think that Mashiah has to come to protect you from your own stupidity of allowing a snake live in your house.
You have to be a dirtiest pervert to allow the Jewish state to become a state of homos, sluts, and satanists.
well the fact is Hashem did not allow Rabbi Kahana and his son to succeed. Why? Why did Hashem stop them. Does Hashem want a Jewish state of homos, sluts, and satanists? of course not! the EREV RAV is controlling Israel right now. and our sages said that in the time of the footsteps of the MASHIAH the EREV RAV WILL BE THE SHEEPHERDS OF ISRAEL. We are in G-D's timing, and G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing.
You ask: "Why did HaShem stop Rabbi Kahane and his son?"
My opinion:
a) He did not stop them. He did not save them, but He did not kill them.
b) Who said Rabbi Kahane and his son had to be the only two people who cared about Jews? What are we for? Are we preaching cowardice and loserism again? This is our people, our land! We have to take care of it ourselves, each and every one, and not wait for some imaginary savior to do it for us.
You are talking about G-d's timing... OK... Then why won't you talk about G-d's world, which is built on the basis of free will and balance.
This means that if you are, having free will, choose to be a coward, you will be stepped on, until you decide to be a winner and not a loser. G-d won't come and save you simply because He did not teach you to be this way.
"G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing?" Are you Jewish?
Your opinion is G-D did not stop Kahane and his son, G-D did not save them, G-D did not kill them? you must not know this so let me tell you. G-D is in controll. on Rosh Hashana G-D decides who will live who will die who by fire , who by water. my imaginary savior is Hashem who will send Moshach to bring redemption.
I "must not know this"? Of course, I don't know this. That's why I said that it is "my opinion". Which part you are not getting?
And the funny thing is, you say then "so let me tell you". So you do know everything?
"On Rosh Hashana G-D decides who will live who will die"? You probably meant Yom Kippur, right?
I will repeat myself:
My opinion:
a) He did not stop them. He did not save them, but He did not kill them.
El Sayyid A. Nosair was the man who killed Rabbi Kahane. I am of the opinion that G-d did not save Rabbi, but He did not send Nosair to kill him.
Not G-d, the Jewish people had to save Rabbi.
If we did, then we would not have been suffering as much.
You talk all the time about G-d and Rabbi Kahane, but you take the whole Jewish people out of context. What are we a bunch of sheep?
Don't we have to earn a better future?
I think by letting Rabbi die, G-d did not punish him, he punished us, the Jews, who have free will, and no sanity.
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well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?
Perhaps I need to point out the difference between lead and rule. Both Rabbi's were great leaders who inspired other leaders such as Chaim for generations to come. These Rabbi's afterall were only human beings, but served as examples for all Jews to follow. While it wasn't hashems will for them to rule the land, they did lead Israel.
Their is a difference between lead and rule! But both Kahane and his son meant to rule not lead. and I think that was their downfull because it was not the will of Hashem for them to rule. it was not what hashem wanted for Israel something was obviously lagging in these men for Hashem to take them away. The kind of rule that Kahane and his son wanted for Israel can only be brought By Moshach.
OK, you are wrong in all respects.
Let's confirm two major points of Rabbi Kahane's platform:
1) Arabs out of Israel;
2) Israel is a Jewish State.
Mashiah has to do this?
Where in the Torah it says that Israel has to be a moronic, perverted state with enemies living inside? Where?
Rabbi Kahane was not going to do Mashiah's job, he would do what every normal Jew should have done anyway.
You have to be a moron if you think that Mashiah has to come to protect you from your own stupidity of allowing a snake live in your house.
You have to be a dirtiest pervert to allow the Jewish state to become a state of homos, sluts, and satanists.
well the fact is Hashem did not allow Rabbi Kahana and his son to succeed. Why? Why did Hashem stop them. Does Hashem want a Jewish state of homos, sluts, and satanists? of course not! the EREV RAV is controlling Israel right now. and our sages said that in the time of the footsteps of the MASHIAH the EREV RAV WILL BE THE SHEEPHERDS OF ISRAEL. We are in G-D's timing, and G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing.
You ask: "Why did HaShem stop Rabbi Kahane and his son?"
My opinion:
a) He did not stop them. He did not save them, but He did not kill them.
b) Who said Rabbi Kahane and his son had to be the only two people who cared about Jews? What are we for? Are we preaching cowardice and loserism again? This is our people, our land! We have to take care of it ourselves, each and every one, and not wait for some imaginary savior to do it for us.
You are talking about G-d's timing... OK... Then why won't you talk about G-d's world, which is built on the basis of free will and balance.
This means that if you are, having free will, choose to be a coward, you will be stepped on, until you decide to be a winner and not a loser. G-d won't come and save you simply because He did not teach you to be this way.
"G-d will not allow any man to interfer with his timing?" Are you Jewish?
Your opinion is G-D did not stop Kahane and his son, G-D did not save them, G-D did not kill them? you must not know this so let me tell you. G-D is in controll. on Rosh Hashana G-D decides who will live who will die who by fire , who by water. my imaginary savior is Hashem who will send Moshach to bring redemption.
I "must not know this"? Of course, I don't know this. That's why I said that it is "my opinion". Which part you are not getting?
And the funny thing is, you say then "so let me tell you". So you do know everything?
"On Rosh Hashana G-D decides who will live who will die"? You probably meant Yom Kippur, right?
I will repeat myself:
My opinion:
a) He did not stop them. He did not save them, but He did not kill them.
El Sayyid A. Nosair was the man who killed Rabbi Kahane. I am of the opinion that G-d did not save Rabbi, but He did not send Nosair to kill him.
Not G-d, the Jewish people had to save Rabbi.
If we did, then we would not have been suffering as much.
You talk all the time about G-d and Rabbi Kahane, but you take the whole Jewish people out of context. What are we a bunch of sheep?
Don't we have to earn a better future?
I think by letting Rabbi die, G-d did not punish him, he punished us, the Jews, who have free will, and no sanity.
My friend the Noahides and the Jewish people are on the same side! we noahindes are waiting for the redemption of Moshach also. May it happen this year. the Jewish people are not sheep or insane! the Torah gives you the right of self defence. But also there are lines that we can not cross. and if we do Hashem will stop us.
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And there are line that we cannot not cross when those who cross all posible lines are desecrating G-d's name.