Author Topic: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...  (Read 1789 times)

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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« on: May 30, 2010, 04:33:35 PM »
So Hamantaschen finally let us all in on what he has been getting at with his 'trembling' thread.

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Well, I'll tell you Talmudic Chuchem.   I will NEVER throw my 16 year old son out of the house even if he comes home dressed like Liberace.

Much like someone else who watched this film, stupidly, you make the mistake of thinking that any Torah Jew reacts the same way as one example cited in the film.  Is that fair?  Do you really think that is logical?  Yet if we said the same thing about secular people who do a certain thing, I'm sure you'd be crying foul about "discrimination" and lumping everyone all together - and rightly so!

You fail to acknowledge what was mentioned several times in the thread already (along with other points you refused to engage with, instead you waited for the topic to shift so you could attack us all), that There are cases of secular parents who throw out their gay kid too.  

Does that mean all secular parents do that?   No.   Does the one guy in the film represent all fathers in Torah Judaism?   No.

However, let's get real here.   "Dressed like liberace"?  That is NOT what the protagonist in the film was doing.  He was not living a flamboyant outwardly perverse and 'gay-celebratory' "lifestyle" where he adopts the 'gay culture.'   He was simply a Torah Jew struggling with a very strong desire for the same gender and a very powerful inclination which he wished to rid himself of in line with what the Torah demands.   When you compare him to one of these 'liberace-dressed' nutcases, you make a mockery out of this sincere Jew and his suffering. 

Not only that but you expose your dishonesty in claiming that you merely want to discuss ways of incorporating gay-Jewish brethren within the Torah world into roles in the community if they abstain (at least obstensibly but ideally in full) from their desires.   You are saying much more than that.   You are basically saying, Judaism should allow a subculture of "openly gay" liberace freaks to prance around in women's clothing and talk with lisps but be coddled and given the cavod of any other Torah Jew in the community.   You are basically asking us to rewrite Judaism to permit the "modern gay lifestyle."

If your kid was a drug dealer, would you throw him out?   If your kid was a rapist would you throw him out?   What kind of low scum would you keep in the house and what is too disgraceful to not discipline?   Sometimes tough love is necessary.   

For someone who embraces a perverse sociological identity just because they are attracted to men, and start behaving like a fairy-liberace quasi-woman, they have sunk really low.   In that case, I could more understand where a father was coming from if he felt the need to step in with more strict discipline in that case to try and get the kid's act together.   In that case the kid clearly needs therapy and mental help.  
It's the same thing if a person has any other desire.   They want money.  Ok.   But do they go out gambling every night only to lose every penny they earn, lose their job, and fail to get another job because of their late nights and crazy hours and bumming around?    The greedy person with strong desire for money can be helped and tolerated.   The gambling cheat and jobless bum has become a disgrace to the family with the way he abuses his love and obsession with money.      The liberace dresser has quite possibly crossed that line.  I would have less criticism for the father in the movie if this son was a liberace nut.    But of course when there was any criticism of individuals/community in the film, you ignored that.

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And I am no less of a righteous Jew than any of you.  Our son always has a place with me and my wife.  If he is not a Torah Jew- so what. 

And here we come to the essence of your post.   This entire thing is motivated by your insecurity toward Torah Jews, and you want to stress that you are "righteous" if you don't follow the religion like Torah Jews do.   You say "so what" if your son is not a Torah Jew - what a disgraceful comment.   And you expect us to validate that?  Yet you selfrighteously assert that your own way is better than "ours."  You need to deal with your hangups with a trained psychologist, not hang out the dirty laundry on this forum.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 04:45:55 PM by Kahane-Was-Right BT »

Moshe92

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2010, 04:48:11 PM »
This is unrelated to KWRBT's post, but I think that "Hamantashen" is a hypocrite. He locked the thread about the movies because it descended into a discussion of "tuchus shtupping" (those are his words), but he's the one who keeps on promoting movies having to do with homosexuality.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2010, 04:53:20 PM »
He cites a movie about gay germans and arabs and asks for discussion, but mentioning any aspect of the plot is off-limits apparently.  So aside from the plot, what exactly is there to discuss about a movie?

Clearly a troll.

Now does JTF assert its quality standards and remove him, or do we play the 'tolerance' game and see what other stupid things he does?  I vote we remove this troll.

Offline Hamantashen

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 05:01:58 PM »
Go ahead.  Make my day!

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2010, 05:05:52 PM »
I see now you've decided to unlock your threads.  Change of heart?   

To be a valid contributor of even minimal quality to the forum you would also need to change what you wrote there when you insulted the whole forum instead of debating the issues.

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 05:29:10 PM »
Hamantaschen has deep seated guilt complexes because of his situation with his own son.
He is told by modern media that "gay is good", that "questioning homosexuality is a disease called homophobia", and that other views are unacceptable.
So, he comes to the forum here seeking absolution, hoping that he can find at least one Jew to say "Greetings, brother gay!"
Because our acceptance and approval is not forthcoming, his guilt and conviction emerge from under the surface of his thoughts, so he attacks us as a defense mechanism rather than have to struggle with his own doubts and insecurities.  Hamantaschen, I truly empathize with your dilemma and know that couples never expect to face something like this when they start a family.
Others have dealt with it in the past, so you can do the same.
That being said, in my humble opinion I strongly believe that an adolescent still in high school doesn't know what the hell they really want in life, and they certainly are too young to be engaging in sex, regardless of their sexual inclinations.


Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 07:17:28 PM »
Kahane, you keep bringing up that I misinterpreted your thread, then you refer to it as stupid.  Sorry this is the third time you have done it.  I stand by my original read of what you wrote.  I don't want to keep bringing this up, but you keep bringing it up and it's getting tired.  I also do not agree with your connecting drug abuse to two adults who are in a loving relationship, no matter what you may think of that loving relationship.  In my view, equating this to alcoholism is dead wrong. 

As for Hamantashen, I think you are not a gay parent, but a gay fool pretending to be a parent.  I would be much kinder if I thought you were sincere, which I absolutely do not believe.  You have troll attributes as Kahane keeps pointing out:  you want to talk about gay things, then you rebuke those of us who mention them, or conversely you say we are off topic, which in fact we are not.  I am starting to think you are just another gay pain in the a**, masquerading as a concerned Haredi Jew. 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 07:23:36 PM by JTFenthusiast2 »

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 09:01:20 PM »
He cites a movie about gay germans and arabs and asks for discussion, but mentioning any aspect of the plot is off-limits apparently.  So aside from the plot, what exactly is there to discuss about a movie?

Clearly a troll.

Now does JTF assert its quality standards and remove him, or do we play the 'tolerance' game and see what other stupid things he does?  I vote we remove this troll.
Didn't I say he was a troll to begin with?

I would not be surprised if he was connected with Ben/Skkie/RWG.

Offline TruthSpreader

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2010, 09:57:11 PM »
He cites a movie about gay germans and arabs and asks for discussion, but mentioning any aspect of the plot is off-limits apparently.  So aside from the plot, what exactly is there to discuss about a movie?

Clearly a troll.

Now does JTF assert its quality standards and remove him, or do we play the 'tolerance' game and see what other stupid things he does?  I vote we remove this troll.
Didn't I say he was a troll to begin with?

I would not be surprised if he was connected with Ben/Skkie/RWG.

AKA the Three Stooges.

Ben = Moe

Sikkie = Larry

RWG = Curly

Dan - Stay calm and be brave in order to judge correctly and make the right decision

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2010, 07:28:13 AM »
Kahane, you keep bringing up that I misinterpreted your thread, then you refer to it as stupid.  Sorry this is the third time you have done it.  I stand by my original read of what you wrote.  I don't want to keep bringing this up, but you keep bringing it up and it's getting tired.  I also do not agree with your connecting drug abuse to two adults who are in a loving relationship, no matter what you may think of that loving relationship.  In my view, equating this to alcoholism is dead wrong.    

If you didn't misinterpet what I wrote, howcome you can never explain why or how you know what I said better than I did?  I meant what was written.  I have clarified what I wrote.   So how can you give an explanation if I disagree with your explanation of my statement?   That defeats the purpose of a discussion if you are going to ascribe views to me which are not my views.

That was my original complaint.   You suggested that I defend any Orthodox Jew.   Despite the fact that I criticized some people in the movie in the same comment!  (Please read carefully if you wish to reply to me).  So where do you find to "interpret" from what I wrote that I defend all Torah Jews?   Upon clarifying that you misread what I wrote, you are now insisting that I really meant something different than my own mind thought?   Where are you getting all this from?

You ascribed views to me which I did not express.  That was what I took issue with, and yet you not only refuse to engage the issues instead of these straw-man arguments you wrongly attribute to me, you insist to me that by what I said, I really meant the straw-man argument you invented.  What Chutzpa!


And if you suggest that I "equated" a drug dealer with a gay person in a "loving relationship" (a so-called relationship which is actually an abomination), you are once again misinterpreting what I wrote.   I did not equate those two things.    I suggested that there is a line where a father has to discipline his child.   That line can be crossed in any number of ways, several of which I mentioned, and one of which may be the embracing of "modern gay identity" as in the liberace queer costume/persona adopted by many modern gays just because they happen to like men.   It does not mean everything that crosses this line has the same severity.  Obviously a rapist victimizes someone else and is horrible.   I am clarifying to you now that I did not intend to equate them with what I said!  On the contrary.  Neither does a rapist equate to a chronic gambler (actually I never mentioned alcohol, so where did you get it from that I equate gays with alcoholics?).   However, they may both cross the line into the area where discipline is needed rather than overflowing chesed (kindness).   

We learn from Torah that a person cannot be always fully flowing with chesed, there is a balance with din (justice) that a parent must exude in order to instill discipline.   So it is not correct to say that a parent who rejects the choice of their son to embrace a Liberace perversity and prance around like a feminine cowboy in leather, that this parent does not love their son.   On the contrary, part of a loving relationship is the din aspect.   To indiscriminately approve of every of the child's decisions, even perverse and incorrect ones, would not be love but a detrimental failure in parenting.

  To be clear, I am stressing that there is a difference between 1.  a sincere Jew who has an attraction to the same gender but seeks to adhere to the Torah despite an immense challenge and desire to go against it, and lives a normal life, without adopting foreign clothing or a new persona to accompany his gay attraction, and just simply needs help to combat his desire for an evil act
vs 2.  a Jew who upon realizing he is attracted to men, decides to discard his Jewish identity and adopt a foreign "modern gay persona" in the form of a liberace freak wearing leather chaps and who prances around celebrating "gay pride" and other disgusting so-called 'causes.'   Such a person is not just a sincere person seeking help or looking for a different role (if they do not feel capable of marrying a woman and procreating), but they have embraced something evil.

This difference creates a world of difference in how we go about responding to a particular person.

Let's not forget that "gay activists" and the evil causes they take up, in the vast majority of cases support the arabs and muslims who want to slaughter them.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 07:35:11 AM by Kahane-Was-Right BT »

Offline Ben m

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2010, 08:17:05 AM »
ltes make a poll who wants him get banned.i will be the first one to vote yes.
enemies:negroes,musulmans and commies/liberals.
alleis:israel,united states,canada,european union,greater serbia,russia,australia and new zealand and japan/south korea and india.togheter we maight win this war.

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2010, 08:59:07 AM »
Re:  frumyid vs Hamantaschen

Is it just me, or has anyone noticed lately that Hamantaschen and frumyid write in the exact same style -- long rambling accusations, curses and threats, constantly stating that "I'm leaving and won't come back" and they never leave or even finish their point?

Both use the same allusions to psychiatry, psychotropic medication, and imply that a Jew willing to use self defense is no better than a Nazi.

I BELIEVE frumyid AND Hamantaschen TO BE ONE AND THE SAME PERSON!


Furthermore, I believe that all the references they drop are "clues" -- actual evidence pointing to their own dangerously imbalanced mental state requiring them to be under psychiatric care and on medication.

Both ID names are the kind that only a sissy woos would choose.

Offline Ben m

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2010, 09:04:13 AM »
Re:  frumyid vs Hamantaschen

Is it just me, or has anyone noticed lately that Hamantaschen and frumyid write in the exact same style -- long rambling accusations, curses and threats, constantly stating that "I'm leaving and won't come back" and they never leave or even finish their point?

Both use the same allusions to psychiatry, psychotropic medication, and imply that a Jew willing to use self defense is no better than a Nazi.

I BELIEVE frumyid AND Hamantaschen TO BE ONE AND THE SAME PERSON!


Furthermore, I believe that all the references they drop are "clues" -- actual evidence pointing to their own dangerously imbalanced mental state requiring them to be under psychiatric care and on medication.

Both ID names are the kind that only a sissy woos would choose.
who is frumyid? some kind of weirdo like hamantaschen?
enemies:negroes,musulmans and commies/liberals.
alleis:israel,united states,canada,european union,greater serbia,russia,australia and new zealand and japan/south korea and india.togheter we maight win this war.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2010, 12:37:24 PM »
Kahane, this is not a good use of either of our times

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2010, 12:40:08 PM »
Kahane, this is not a good use of either of our times

I don't see why not.  Should we not speak on the forum?

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2010, 01:07:32 PM »
I agree, but sometimes a little levity is good - lightens up the sometimes 'all too serious subjects on the forum' and makes us laugh at ourselves a little!

Even so...time to move on.

 >:(

Offline muman613

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2010, 01:10:30 PM »
Dr. Schmendrik to the Emergency Room please, Calling Dr. Schmendrik...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans...
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2010, 01:28:28 PM »
Re:  "Dr. Schmendrik to the Emergency Room please, Calling Dr. Schmendrik..."

So...as I was sayin' ... we need a new poll.

Wait!....forget that!     :o