Author Topic: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?  (Read 7987 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2012, 11:21:49 AM »
is hunting permitted in survival situations? How did the ancient Israelites gather their food previously before herding?
Thank you for asking that WI! I am also curious about that.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2012, 11:44:20 AM »
Despite what Muman said, as far as I know it is technically "kosher" to eat live fish, as long as the fish itself is kosher (which rules out squid of course). The reason is fish don't need to be slaughtered.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2012, 02:57:18 PM »
Despite what Muman said, as far as I know it is technically "kosher" to eat live fish, as long as the fish itself is kosher (which rules out squid of course). The reason is fish don't need to be slaughtered.

This is true... But there is the question of cruelty to animals. I don't know the answer to this one..

Regarding hunting for survival... I don't know the 'official' answer but my guess is based on Pikuah Nefesh {Saving Life} that in a condition of survival it is OK to eat whatever is available to stay alive.

This site discusses the issues raised in the Talmud concerning eating a limb of a living bird..
http://www.dafyomi.co.il/chulin/insites/ch-dt-102.htm
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2012, 03:05:20 PM »
Here is a story from the Holocaust where Jews had to eat non-Kosher food to survive..


http://www.kehillastorah.org/kedoshim5760.html
Quote
A group of young men who had survived the holocaust met the renown Vizhnitzer Rebbe. The Rebbe went out of his way to comfort and console the countless Jews who had lost their families, friends, and possessions as the result of the horrible war.


With great sincerity and heartache, the Jewish men told the Rebbe that they felt guilty for having eaten non-kosher food throughout their time in the camps. "Perhaps we should have been stronger," said one of the young men with remorse. "Perhaps we could have survived without eating the food from their kitchens. What should we do to repent for our sins?"
 

The Rebbe was touched by their sincerity. He was quiet for a few moments and then he began to cry. He took the hand of one of the young men and clasped it warmly in his own hands. "The only reason you and your friends ate the treif (non-kosher) food was so that you should survive, is that not so?" The young man nodded yes.
 

"Surely the reason you felt you had to eat the food was because of the commandment "And you shall live by them [the commandments] (Leviticus 18:5)," said the Rebbe. Again the young man nodded. (The Torah commands us to violate all but three types of mitzvahs in order to save a life.)
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2012, 03:26:24 PM »
This Rabbi from Yeshiva Ohr Somayach mentions that Jews don't eat live fish... He doesn't give a source though...

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/243/Q2/

Here too we find mention that a Jew should not eat live fish:

http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/fleisher/archives/behaloscha59.htm

Quote
While on the subject of fish ......

Shulchan Oruch Y.D. 13:1 rules that fish require no ritual slaughtering, shechitoh. This is derived from our verse which says that if bnei Yisroel were to receive meat it would require shechitoh, "Hatzone u'vokor YISHOCHEIT lo'hem." However, by fish it says "yei'o'seif," that they only require gathering.

There is an opinion that fish require shechitoh. It is to be found in M.R. Breishis 7:2. "Yaakov of the village of Gvuroi ruled in Tzur that fish require ritual slaughter." I have no idea where the place of the shechitoh would be or if it would require the cutting of one or two "simanim."

The Kesef Mishneh brings the opinion of Rav Saadyia Gaon that fish which die on their own may not be eaten. The Bach's text of the words of R.S.G. is that live fish may not be eaten. The Rambam in hilchos shechitoh 1:3 says that fish which die in the water may be eaten. He also permits eating fish alive. The Hagohas Beis Yosef on Knesses Hag'doloh Y.D. #13 questions if the Rambam would permit consuming fish that died on land. It would seem obvious that if fish were caught in a body of water and left to die on land, that this is considered not dying by themselves, but rather being killed by a person. This is literally "yei'o'seif."
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

  • Forum Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9373
    • The Urban Grind
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2012, 03:27:23 PM »
This is true... But there is the question of cruelty to animals. I don't know the answer to this one..

Regarding hunting for survival... I don't know the 'official' answer but my guess is based on Pikuah Nefesh {Saving Life} that in a condition of survival it is OK to eat whatever is available to stay alive.

This site discusses the issues raised in the Talmud concerning eating a limb of a living bird..
http://www.dafyomi.co.il/chulin/insites/ch-dt-102.htm

Technically, fish don't need to be slaughtered the way a cow gets slaughtered.  They just suffocate when they're out of the water for too long.  Otherwise, I've never heard anything about it being OK for Jews to eat fish that are still alive (even if they're kosher types of fish).  Nor have I ever heard of any Jews eating fish that are still alive.  The idea of eating any animal that's still alive is repugnant to me. 

Offline Lisa

  • Forum Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9373
    • The Urban Grind
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2012, 03:29:20 PM »
As for eating a fish that's still alive, I don't understand how it would NOT fall under the prohibition of eating the flesh of a live animal.  I mean, the fish isn't even dead yet, and it's being eaten.  So what is there not to understand?

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2012, 03:30:24 PM »
As for eating a fish that's still alive, I don't understand how it would NOT fall under the prohibition of eating the flesh of a live animal.  I mean, the fish isn't even dead yet, and it's being eaten.  So what is there not to understand?

That is the first thing I said... It is a violation of Noachide laws.. But apparently Rambam {In the piece I quoted above} allowed eating live fish... I don't know the source of that...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2012, 04:35:43 PM »
I think the humane-ness would matter depending on the size of the fish. If you can chew it up and swallow it in one bite then that fish will be killed rather quickly, but if you have to take bites out of the fish, then it's definitely inhumane.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2012, 05:29:15 PM »
I think eating a living fish is very un-Jewish. Like Muman said there is still the matter of cruelty to an animal. Although, the any way that gets the fish from the pond to your plate is not going to be very pleasant for the fish.

Offline TruthSpreader

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8754
    • http://www.youtube.com/user/WeThePeopleZeb
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2012, 06:07:37 PM »
After viewing this topic, I may never eat sushi again.
Dan - Stay calm and be brave in order to judge correctly and make the right decision

Offline cjd

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 8996
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2012, 06:28:04 PM »
I think eating a living fish is very un-Jewish. Like Muman said there is still the matter of cruelty to an animal. Although, the any way that gets the fish from the pond to your plate is not going to be very pleasant for the fish.
It's not something most humans would partake in Jew or Gentile... I was never a great fan of the "Japs"  Raw fish is bad enough... Live is taking it to the another level.  :yuck:
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

A light on to the nations for 60 years


Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2012, 08:24:38 PM »
Obviously eating something that is still alive is just barbaric. But I don't understand why Jews often feel like hunting is a sin for Gentiles, too.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2012, 12:34:59 PM »
Obviously eating something that is still alive is just barbaric. But I don't understand why Jews often feel like hunting is a sin for Gentiles, too.
I fill that is a sin as a vegan not because I am Jewish. I think the reason is quite obvious- it is often a rather painful and slow death, not that being mauled by a bear or hunted down by a pack of wolves is any better, but still I think humans should show more mercy if they have to kill an animal.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2012, 12:49:46 PM »
I fill that is a sin as a vegan not because I am Jewish. I think the reason is quite obvious- it is often a rather painful and slow death, not that being mauled by a bear or hunted down by a pack of wolves is any better, but still I think humans should show more mercy if they have to kill an animal.
An arrow through the heart and lungs is a rather quick death with massive blood loss.

  Have you always been a vegan? What do you eat for protein?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2012, 01:06:51 PM »
An arrow through the heart and lungs is a rather quick death with massive blood loss.

  Have you always been a vegan? What do you eat for protein?
But not every shot is a perfect hit. I think using arrows to kill big animals like moose and elk is especially cruel.


I've been vegan for 11 years. I get all the nutrients I need from vegan food except perhaps B12 for which I take a pill.

Offline jbeige

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2012, 01:11:11 PM »
What do you expect the Japanese and the Chinese are savages, people think they are so intelligent but when push comes to shove they are the same animals as they were hundreds of years ago.

Offline angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10545
  • ☭=卐=☮
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2012, 02:07:27 PM »
But not every shot is a perfect hit. I think using arrows to kill big animals like moose and elk is especially cruel.


I've been vegan for 11 years. I get all the nutrients I need from vegan food except perhaps B12 for which I take a pill.


Extra beans for you!
I like red beans. It fills me up. I like to eat them while they're still alive though. :P

U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline Lisa

  • Forum Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9373
    • The Urban Grind
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2012, 02:12:16 PM »
Be very careful about who you call a barbarian, jbeige.

Offline jbeige

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2012, 08:01:55 PM »
Be very careful about who you call a barbarian, jbeige.
What do you call people that hang dogs by their necks so they die slowly so the meat is tender and deep fry them in hot oil while they are still alive?  That's what the Chinese do.
What do you call people that slaughter dolphins just so they don't get caught in their nets and who still chop up whales while they are still alive and also cut off just the fins of the sharks and toss the shark back into the water that's what the Japanese do so I don't think anyone should be careful about who they call barbarian.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2012, 08:19:47 PM »
Yes the WN is always right. All Asian people are scum of the earth.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2012, 09:19:27 PM »
 :-X
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2012, 10:24:53 PM »
I do think there's something wrong with the culture of people who think nothing of  cruelty to animals. Unfortunately the majority of the world is still like that. Most of the world doesn't even treat fellow human beings with dignity though either.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2828
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2012, 10:36:20 PM »
JBeige,

Lately you're comments are off the charts.  I remember liking your comments and thinking they demonstrated thoughtfulness and intelligence, but lately you are all reaction and anger.  I dont know what is with the tone and content of almost all of your comments lately.

Offline angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10545
  • ☭=卐=☮
Re: Japanese eating LIVE SUSHI, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2012, 11:54:43 PM »
I think he's angry because he got an F instead of a D in school because those pesky Asian kids keep raising the curve.

BTW I don't bother killing dogs before eating them. Real men eat dogs alive.

Also, I hope he's not Jewish.  Wouldn't want anyone to use him to say: "not all of them are geniuses".
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774