Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Response from a non zionist, regarding RAMBAN, and vilna gaon 600000
q_q_:
by the way.. his challenge, of,
if the RAMBAN really believed in an obligatory mitzva of settling the land.. why did he leave it till when he literally had to flee for his life, before he actually did go live there?
still goes unanswered!
But the main thing is the word conquest..
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on February 07, 2008, 05:14:39 PM ---by the way.. his challenge, of,
if the RAMBAN really believed in an obligatory mitzva of settling the land.. why did he leave it till when he literally had to flee for his life, before he actually did go live there?
still goes unanswered!
But the main thing is the word conquest..
--- End quote ---
He uses the word Kiboosh, which means conquering, ask any hebrew speaker.
The question as to why the ramban only went to Israel when he had to flee spain is no question at all.
People aren't perfect, Rabbis, even great ones do not do everything perfect.
Maimonides lived in egypt, despite the issur involved in that. He even wrote in a letter saying that I am doing a sin every moment of the day for living in egypt.
The fact that the Rambam did this does not change it from being a sin.
So, I don't see that as a question at all.
judeanoncapta:
Also, he says clearly that this mitzvah is a chiyuv for every single Jew.
He uses the word chiyuv, so what you non-zionist friend says about the ramban not holdng that this is a chiyuv is completely incorrect.
q_q_:
is this word chayav in the text you mentioned?
and this word kiboosh, I was just checking what hebrew letters make it up.. I found it in the etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew by rabbi matityahu clark based on rabbi shimshon rephael hirsch. It does list conquer.. Most generally it defines it as subdue;subject forcibly.
kaf bet shin.
so that would supposrt you.
I placed the word KIBOOSH in brackets after the english word conquer.. I assume it is that word, right?
What about the word Chayav?
where is it?
The Ramban in his commentary to the Rambam's "Sefer Hamitzvot" (Positive Commandment #4) notes the following.
"That we are commanded to take possession of the Land which the Almighty, Blessed Be He, gave to our forefathers, to Avraham, to Yitzhak, and to Yaacov; and not to abandon it to other nations, or to leave it desolate, as He said to them, You shall dispossess the inhabitants of the Land and dwell in it, for I have given the Land to you to posses it, (Numbers, 33:53) and he said, further, To Inherit the Land which I swore to your forefathers, (to give them,) behold, we are commanded with the conquest(KIBOOSH) of the land in every generation."
judeanoncapta:
The word chiyuv appears toward the end of the paragraph.
Let me quote it:
"Hee Misswath Ase, MithHayev kol Ehad mimenu w'afilu b'zman hagaluth"
"It is a positive commandment that obligates(mithhayev) every single person even during the time of exile."
The term Hiyuv is clearly used. As you can see, your non-zionist friend is either pruposely lying about the Ramban or he is simply ignorant of what he actually says and simply assumes that he beleived in the 3 oaths.
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