Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Question for Lubab.
judeanoncapta:
Now that you have seen Lubab's justification of idolatry, please listen to the other side.
habadjewish messianism.mp3 - 14.64MB
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 17, 2008, 06:44:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 17, 2008, 06:39:59 PM ---No their is a clear and big difference between the Kabbalists and students of the Arizal, and what we unfortunatly see within Chabad. One can have respect, and admiration for a great person, and Talmid Chacham. One can look up to another person, no problem, BUT it is definitly assur to give "G-d-like" characterists to a human being no matter how great he or she was. It is also forbidden to idolize a human being, and pray to a human, yes asking G-d for something in the merit and becuase of the merit of a great Tzaddik is one thing, (asking him to be a lawyer so to speak for you), but to actually pray to a dead or any other human being is assur and is kafira.
Listin to the part where I told you to listin to- about what Rabbi Mizrahi brings on this subject this week, quoting the RambaN.
--- End quote ---
Would going to the Rebbe's ohel be out according to what you are saying?
--- End quote ---
No. BUT praying To the Rebbe would be wrong. Rabbi Mizrahi in this weeks lecture (towards the end) explains these things, he says that one does not need to go to the graves of Tzaddikim etc. to talk to G-d. (my own words)- you can communicate with G-d on your own without going to different graves etc. But it wouldn't necessarily hurt going to a grave, etc. BUT praying to the Rebbe is a whole different thing and is completly assur.
Also one more thing- (my personal opinion)- I dont think that it is good to go to that particular grave site, becuase of the confusion that is unfortunatly happening. Some believe this, some that, and for the minimum their is at the very least something similar to idolatry going on (at the very least), so I dont think that it would be a good spot to frequently visit.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 17, 2008, 07:01:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 17, 2008, 06:44:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 17, 2008, 06:39:59 PM ---No their is a clear and big difference between the Kabbalists and students of the Arizal, and what we unfortunatly see within Chabad. One can have respect, and admiration for a great person, and Talmid Chacham. One can look up to another person, no problem, BUT it is definitly assur to give "G-d-like" characterists to a human being no matter how great he or she was. It is also forbidden to idolize a human being, and pray to a human, yes asking G-d for something in the merit and becuase of the merit of a great Tzaddik is one thing, (asking him to be a lawyer so to speak for you), but to actually pray to a dead or any other human being is assur and is kafira.
Listin to the part where I told you to listin to- about what Rabbi Mizrahi brings on this subject this week, quoting the RambaN.
--- End quote ---
Would going to the Rebbe's ohel be out according to what you are saying?
--- End quote ---
No. BUT praying To the Rebbe would be wrong. Rabbi Mizrahi in this weeks lecture (towards the end) explains these things, he says that one does not need to go to the graves of Tzaddikim etc. to talk to G-d. (my own words)- you can communicate with G-d on your own without going to different graves etc. But it wouldn't necessarily hurt going to a grave, etc. BUT praying to the Rebbe is a whole different thing and is completly assur.
--- End quote ---
But Lubab would tell you that since the Rebbe is the Essence of God clothed in a body, one could pray to him with no problem.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on February 17, 2008, 07:04:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 17, 2008, 07:01:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 17, 2008, 06:44:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 17, 2008, 06:39:59 PM ---No their is a clear and big difference between the Kabbalists and students of the Arizal, and what we unfortunatly see within Chabad. One can have respect, and admiration for a great person, and Talmid Chacham. One can look up to another person, no problem, BUT it is definitly assur to give "G-d-like" characterists to a human being no matter how great he or she was. It is also forbidden to idolize a human being, and pray to a human, yes asking G-d for something in the merit and becuase of the merit of a great Tzaddik is one thing, (asking him to be a lawyer so to speak for you), but to actually pray to a dead or any other human being is assur and is kafira.
Listin to the part where I told you to listin to- about what Rabbi Mizrahi brings on this subject this week, quoting the RambaN.
--- End quote ---
Would going to the Rebbe's ohel be out according to what you are saying?
--- End quote ---
No. BUT praying To the Rebbe would be wrong. Rabbi Mizrahi in this weeks lecture (towards the end) explains these things, he says that one does not need to go to the graves of Tzaddikim etc. to talk to G-d. (my own words)- you can communicate with G-d on your own without going to different graves etc. But it wouldn't necessarily hurt going to a grave, etc. BUT praying to the Rebbe is a whole different thing and is completly assur.
--- End quote ---
But Lubab would tell you that since the Rebbe is the Essence of G-d clothed in a body, one could pray to him with no problem.
--- End quote ---
Thats exactly the problem. (anyway how do you cut and paste parts of shiurim? I want to cut and paste something short also.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on February 17, 2008, 07:01:01 PM ---Now that you have seen Lubab's justification of idolatry, please listen to the other side.
habadjewish messianism.mp3 - 14.64MB
--- End quote ---
You have a halachik obligation to stop throwing around that word "idolatry" and do a proper Chakira and Derisha.
You are way out of line!
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