Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Question for Lubab.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on February 17, 2008, 07:04:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 17, 2008, 07:01:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 17, 2008, 06:44:25 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 17, 2008, 06:39:59 PM ---No their is a clear and big difference between the Kabbalists and students of the Arizal, and what we unfortunatly see within Chabad. One can have respect, and admiration for a great person, and Talmid Chacham. One can look up to another person, no problem, BUT it is definitly assur to give "G-d-like" characterists to a human being no matter how great he or she was. It is also forbidden to idolize a human being, and pray to a human, yes asking G-d for something in the merit and becuase of the merit of a great Tzaddik is one thing, (asking him to be a lawyer so to speak for you), but to actually pray to a dead or any other human being is assur and is kafira.
Listin to the part where I told you to listin to- about what Rabbi Mizrahi brings on this subject this week, quoting the RambaN.
--- End quote ---
Would going to the Rebbe's ohel be out according to what you are saying?
--- End quote ---
No. BUT praying To the Rebbe would be wrong. Rabbi Mizrahi in this weeks lecture (towards the end) explains these things, he says that one does not need to go to the graves of Tzaddikim etc. to talk to G-d. (my own words)- you can communicate with G-d on your own without going to different graves etc. But it wouldn't necessarily hurt going to a grave, etc. BUT praying to the Rebbe is a whole different thing and is completly assur.
--- End quote ---
But Lubab would tell you that since the Rebbe is the Essence of G-d clothed in a body, one could pray to him with no problem.
--- End quote ---
Please do not put words in my mouth.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on February 17, 2008, 07:14:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 17, 2008, 07:07:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on February 17, 2008, 07:01:01 PM ---Now that you have seen Lubab's justification of idolatry, please listen to the other side.
habadjewish messianism.mp3 - 14.64MB
--- End quote ---
You have a halachik obligation to stop throwing around that word "idolatry" and do a proper Chakira and Derisha.
You are way out of line!
--- End quote ---
I am not out of line.
You beleive that your Rebbe is the Essence of G-d clothed in a body.
If that is not idolatry, the word has no meaning.
--- End quote ---
You have some questions you need to ask me before you can draw that conclusion, don't you?
Or you just want to defame?
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: lubab on February 17, 2008, 07:45:01 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on February 17, 2008, 07:14:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 17, 2008, 07:07:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on February 17, 2008, 07:01:01 PM ---Now that you have seen Lubab's justification of idolatry, please listen to the other side.
habadjewish messianism.mp3 - 14.64MB
--- End quote ---
You have a halachik obligation to stop throwing around that word "idolatry" and do a proper Chakira and Derisha.
You are way out of line!
--- End quote ---
I am not out of line.
You beleive that your Rebbe is the Essence of G-d clothed in a body.
If that is not idolatry, the word has no meaning.
--- End quote ---
You have some questions you need to ask me before you can draw that conclusion, don't you?
Or you just want to defame?
--- End quote ---
Anyone would draw that conclusion. Lubab, your " Ich Ken Upteitchen Yeder Zach" attitude is annoying and deceptive.
MassuhDGoodName:
judeanoncapta: "...I am not out of line..."
Actually, YOU ARE out of line!
Most folks have enough 'walking around' sense not to hang their dirty laundry out in public for the whole world to see!
And, what exactly makes YOU the world's foremost Authority on all spiritual matters?
So far, you've violated the privacy of your own and another member's private messages, and are disrupting the forum by attacking another member (and, I might add, a member and Moderator who happens to be an esteemed scholar of Torah) for points of metaphysical doctrine with which you disagree.
As they say at the barrooms, "If you want to continue with this, take it outside."
An apology and sense of humility are what is necessary and should be forthcoming.
And meanwhile, still, Israel and Jews worldwide are facing great peril.
There is simply no time for such frivolous luxuries as interpersonal attacks.
Such division among us led to the Fall of the 2nd Temple and our Exile from The Land.
judeanoncapta:
--- Quote from: MassuhDGoodName on February 17, 2008, 07:56:59 PM ---judeanoncapta: "...I am not out of line..."
Actually, YOU ARE out of line!
Most folks have enough 'walking around' sense not to hang their dirty laundry out in public for the whole world to see!
And, what exactly makes YOU the world's foremost Authority on all spiritual matters?
So far, you've violated the privacy of your own and another member's private messages, and are disrupting the forum by attacking another member (and, I might add, a member and Moderator who happens to be an esteemed scholar of Torah) for points of metaphysical doctrine with which you disagree.
As they say at the barrooms, "If you want to continue with this, take it outside."
An apology and sense of humility are what is necessary and should be forthcoming.
And meanwhile, still, Israel and Jews worldwide are facing great peril.
There is simply no time for such frivolous luxuries as interpersonal attacks.
Such division among us led to the Fall of the 2nd Temple and our Exile from The Land.
--- End quote ---
I will let Chaim decide.
If he keeps Lubab on as Moderator, I will leave the forum. Without a splash, I will just leave my friends my email and leave.
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