Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Lessons In Chabad Hasidic Philosophy (in light of recent misunderstandings)
Lubab:
As per Chaim's show let me confirm that I do believe with full faith in every word of the Rambam's 13 principles of faith.
q_q_:
I did hear from somebody, who I think is a misnaged because
a)I read on the sichosinenglish site that (from what I understand) misnagdim take tzimtzum more literally, and it seems he did.
b)speaking to some chabad rabbis, they all disagreed with this guy
He made a very clear argument.. Kabbalistic of course.
He said that there are many worlds. And G-d is everywhere, but in this world we do not see him, because G-d constricted himself, (not contracted). So all objects around us are like his garments. And that is why we do not pray to them. To pray to an object would be like addressing somebody's ear or coat instead of him.
So how can we know how to worship him.. Only from the instructions he gave us. His mitzvot, are his will for us to do on earth.
The chabad guy said G-d did not constrict himself. He constricted his light / his presence.
I have never delved further. I just heard a lecture from the misnaged guy and asked a chabad guy about what I had heard.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on February 22, 2008, 09:30:15 AM ---I did hear from somebody, who I think is a misnaged because
a)I read on the sichosinenglish site that (from what I understand) misnagdim take tzimtzum more literally, and it seems he did.
b)speaking to some chabad rabbis, they all disagreed with this guy
He made a very clear argument.. Kabbalistic of course.
He said that there are many worlds. And G-d is everywhere, but in this world we do not see him, because G-d constricted himself, (not contracted). So all objects around us are like his garments. And that is why we do not pray to them. To pray to an object would be like addressing somebody's ear or coat instead of him.
So how can we know how to worship him.. Only from the instructions he gave us. His mitzvot, are his will for us to do on earth.
The chabad guy said G-d did not constrict himself. He constricted his light / his presence.
I have never delved further. I just heard a lecture from the misnaged guy and asked a chabad guy about what I had heard.
--- End quote ---
Yes. That's the basic debate. Whether G-d actually removed Himself from this world or He just removed the REVELATION of Himself i.e. He's here, we just don't see Him.
In my view it's impossible to say that G-d actually removed His presence from this world and still be G-d. Saying this would impose several limitations and imperfections on G-d's abilities.
MassuhDGoodName:
Re: "...He's here, we just don't see Him..."
Today, we are watching clear and detailed video with stereophonic audio sound, and can store and access these media on a small, thin, spinning plastic disc with a chemical coating, using a concentrated beam of light to scan its surface , extracting the light and sound images off of it by "reading" & converting microscopic pits on the disc surface which represent numerical series of 0's and 1's in various combinations, and then translating the numerical series into glorious audio-video, all the while employing physical properties of electro-magnetism as our energy source for accomplishing this task!
When I was young, a black and white video transmission of a far lesser quality, accompanied by a lesser quality audio, and employing the use of electro-magnetic vacuum tubes to produce, transmit, and recieve this medium, was considered the "state of the art".
Prior to that "state of the art", Amplitude Modification of audio sound alone, was the "state of the art".
All of the above possibilities, plus an infinite progression of "states of the art" were, and are, always existing.
Therefore, our limited ability to "access" and "understand" each of these scientific advances in greater depth, proves that they have always been present.
Only our own "human" limitations prevent us from accessing infinite, total, and perfect knowledge.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: lubab on February 22, 2008, 09:33:20 AM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on February 22, 2008, 09:30:15 AM ---I did hear from somebody, who I think is a misnaged because
a)I read on the sichosinenglish site that (from what I understand) misnagdim take tzimtzum more literally, and it seems he did.
b)speaking to some chabad rabbis, they all disagreed with this guy
He made a very clear argument.. Kabbalistic of course.
He said that there are many worlds. And G-d is everywhere, but in this world we do not see him, because G-d constricted himself, (not contracted). So all objects around us are like his garments. And that is why we do not pray to them. To pray to an object would be like addressing somebody's ear or coat instead of him.
So how can we know how to worship him.. Only from the instructions he gave us. His mitzvot, are his will for us to do on earth.
The chabad guy said G-d did not constrict himself. He constricted his light / his presence.
I have never delved further. I just heard a lecture from the misnaged guy and asked a chabad guy about what I had heard.
--- End quote ---
Yes. That's the basic debate. Whether G-d actually removed Himself from this world or He just removed the REVELATION of Himself i.e. He's here, we just don't see Him.
In my view it's impossible to say that G-d actually removed His presence from this world and still be G-d. Saying this would impose several limitations and imperfections on G-d's abilities.
--- End quote ---
Neither view that I stated claims that he removed himself.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version