Kahane and Nile to Euphrates

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Eilat and The Aravah are not in the boundaries that we are required to take first. The Southern half of the modern State of Israel have the same status as The Nile and Euphrates.

Yepp. Thats why the holidays their have to take place for 2 days as opposed to 1 (which is in Israel).

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

At the current time we are willing to let the Arabs have from the Jordan to the Euphrates and it isn't worth the war

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Eilat and The Aravah are not in the boundaries that we are required to take first. The Southern half of the modern State of Israel have the same status as The Nile and Euphrates.

Yepp. Thats why the holidays their have to take place for 2 days as opposed to 1 (which is in Israel).

Do Israelis that live there keep 2 days?

I dont know if they all even keep one, but from what I heard is that Rav Eliyashiv (the Chief Askenazi- Rabbi) said that whoever lives their has to keep 2.

[Ari]

Our return to all the G-d given land of Israel is inevitable.

[Ambiorix]

The peak of The State of Israel was in The Yom Kippur War when we on our way to Cairo and Damascus but then the self-hating Jew Henry Kissinger pressured Israel to surrender and in the armistice agreement, part of Sinai was surrendered and part of The Golan Heights was surrendered. The area of Kuneitra was Israel from 1967-1973 but it is now Syrian-occupied again. It is now a UN-buffer zone.

Cairo is on The Nile and part of The Euphrates goes through Syria. Maybe we could have captured the Syrian portion of it but not the Iraqi part which is more to The South.

Why do Israeli governments obey US orders?

[Ambiorix]

The peak of The State of Israel was in The Yom Kippur War when we on our way to Cairo and Damascus but then the self-hating Jew Henry Kissinger pressured Israel to surrender and in the armistice agreement, part of Sinai was surrendered and part of The Golan Heights was surrendered. The area of Kuneitra was Israel from 1967-1973 but it is now Syrian-occupied again. It is now a UN-buffer zone.

Cairo is on The Nile and part of The Euphrates goes through Syria. Maybe we could have captured the Syrian portion of it but not the Iraqi part which is more to The South.

Why do Israeli governments obey US orders?

Because we have self-hating "leaders" in Israel.

Were the first Zionists like that too??

[EagleEye]

Well some people who claim to support Kahane on this Israel nationalist board call it "arab/nazi//liberal" propaganda to suggest that he supported such boundaries.   They consider that suggestion a move to discredit the man.  It's odd how two groups can profess to support Kahane, but they can't agree on what he actually stood for.

The truth is that Kahane appears to have been fairly vague on this question.  Even if he disagreed with me, of course, it wouldn't change my viewpoint.

[Dr. Dan]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

In the Torah it is written that the land from the Niles to the Euphrates will be made Jewish land.  However, how come it wasn't so right way when the Israelites settled the land?

Commentary has indicated that due to the small population of the Israelites, their spreading out in such a large area of land would make them more vulnerable by vicious beasts and other enemies.  Therefore, in time, that is what will end happening for the Jewish people.

In current days, the population of the Jewish people isn't nearly large enough to support them on those vast parts from the Nile to the Euphrates.  But bet your bottom dollar at any which time, this may change in our lifetime or afterwards if we, the Jewish people, behave ourselves in the proper manner according to Gd.

[Dr. Dan]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

They're not talking about the Biblical Kingdoms, they are talking about what land was promised.  Regardless of what was conquered in previous attempts, we know full well what the Promised Land is, who it belongs to, and whom He gave it to. 

Ask yourself how realistic it is to take present day land from Jordan, Iraq and Syria.

Let me tell you what is realistic:  For the Israelis and JEwish people stop being a bunch of wimps and destory the very enemies which torment the Israeli citizens everyday.  THe inhabitants of Gaza and Judea/Samaria (West Bank) are constantly tormenting Israel.  In a likely war, the Jewish and righteous thing to do is to push away all of the inhabitants or to "smite" them and take the land and allow natural Jewish growth to take place in those areas.  For those areas which meet the most resisitance by the enemy, it should be left alone for the time being.

#1 mistake by the Israel govt of today and the past was legitimizing a "Palestine".  The Land east of the Jordan River is the "Palestine".  Israel should have never kicked its own inhabitants out of the Jewish towns within those areas.

As far as Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria, time will only tell what kind of sick activity those nations have planned for Israel. We not see it in our lifetime what they might do to us.  HOwever, it's only natural to have times of "peace" with our enemies until they act up again.

[Masha]

In current days, the population of the Jewish people isn't nearly large enough to support them on those vast parts from the Nile to the Euphrates. 

Why do you say this? 15 million Jews is not a large enough population to settle these lands? I think it's pretty large. A lot of these lands are desert - they cannot be overcrowded.

I read in a book on the history of Zionism about the first settlers, who didn't have enough agricultural tools, so they dug the hard soil with their hand in order to cultivate it. This made me cry. The image of people who love their land so much they dig it with their bare hands stuck in my mind.

[Dr. Dan]

In current days, the population of the Jewish people isn't nearly large enough to support them on those vast parts from the Nile to the Euphrates. 

Why do you say this? 15 million Jews is not a large enough population to settle these lands? I think it's pretty large. A lot of these lands are desert - they cannot be overcrowded.

I read in a book on the history of Zionism about the first settlers, who didn't have enough agricultural tools, so they dug the hard soil with their hand in order to cultivate it. This made me cry. The image of people who love their land so much they dig it with their bare hands stuck in my mind.

15 million Jews in Israel currently?

Just let me know where there is over crowding..

however, with the natural growth of the religious population versus the secular population, in time, in the next few generations, i do expect an expansion as prescribed by Gd.

[Masha]

Dr. Dan,

I meant that the current number of Jews in the world is a reasonable number to settle the whole of Great Israel and defend it.

[Dr. Dan]

Dr. Dan,

I meant that the current number of Jews in the world is a reasonable number to settle the whole of Great Israel and defend it.

when that time comes when the rest of us make aliya and avg 6 children per household, i would agree 100%

[Masha]

Dr. Dan,

I meant that the current number of Jews in the world is a reasonable number to settle the whole of Great Israel and defend it.

when that time comes when the rest of us make aliya and avg 6 children per household, i would agree 100%

6 children per household was something that was possible in the 1950ies. I have 3 children - I barely have money to provide for them. We take no vacations, we buy no "stuff," we wear old clothes. All our money goes to feed and pay for extra-curricular activities for our children. Having children is very expensive for middle class families, if you take care of their development and education, which is very important to me, and if you buy nutritious and ecologically healthy food. Occasionally, I take my kids to concerts and theater, which is also very expensive these days. But believe me, they wear no designer clothes. The only way I could afford more children is if they didn't have any activities outside school and subsisted on potatoes and rice.

[Dr. Dan]

Dr. Dan,

I meant that the current number of Jews in the world is a reasonable number to settle the whole of Great Israel and defend it.

when that time comes when the rest of us make aliya and avg 6 children per household, i would agree 100%

6 children per household was something that was possible in the 1950ies. I have 3 children - I barely have money to provide for them. We take no vacations, we buy no "stuff," we wear old clothes. All our money goes to feed and pay for extra-curricular activities for our children. Having children is very expensive for middle class families, if you take care of their development and education, which is very important to me, and if you buy nutritious and ecologically healthy food. Occasionally, I take my kids to concerts and theater, which is also very expensive these days. But believe me, they wear no designer clothes. The only way I could afford more children is if they didn't have any activities outside school and subsisted on potatoes and rice.

well, since society is very materialistic, there is a high demand for wordly things and therefore, there is a high cost to those things which you mentioned.  Food isn't cheap either unless you go to McDonalds.

Since most households today have fewer children, those families can afford more things.  The question is if that quality of life is better than having lots of kids.

The more observant Jews who selflessly practice Judaism, tend to have lots of kids, no ifs ands or buts, unless they can't afford to have challah for Shabbat.  I have a feeling that these Jews will become the majority in time and their own kids will have lots of kids and that will inevitably lead to a natural population expansion which will result in wars in expanding the borders, if it is Gd's will.

[Ultra Requete]

Dr. Dan,

I meant that the current number of Jews in the world is a reasonable number to settle the whole of Great Israel and defend it.

Only A-rab muslime US president like Osama or great catastrophe will force the materialistic oriented American Jewry to make alliyah. If you kick out A-rabs from Israel and Jesha you'll have place for five milions more Jews.

[Masha]

since society is very materialistic, there is a high demand for wordly things and therefore, there is a high cost to those things which you mentioned. 

I don't consider money spent on the kids' education an example of materialism. It is responsible parenting, in my opinion. The kids grow up to compete in the global economy with millions of Chinese and Indians now having a competitive edge over Westerners thanks to their superior educational system. Even in Iran, they have a good school system. A couple of years ago, Iranian students got the first place in the international physics competition. Thanks to liberal educators, the school systems are failing in the West. Parents have to supplement heavily if they want their children to have a chance of success in life.

[Dr. Dan]

since society is very materialistic, there is a high demand for wordly things and therefore, there is a high cost to those things which you mentioned. 

I don't consider money spent on the kids' education an example of materialism. It is responsible parenting, in my opinion. The kids grow up to compete in the global economy with millions of Chinese and Indians now having a competitive edge over Westerners thanks to their superior educational system. Even in Iran, they have a good school system. A couple of years ago, Iranian students got the first place in the international physics competition. Thanks to liberal educators, the school systems are failing in the West. Parents have to supplement heavily if they want their children to have a chance of success in life.

A great Jewish education is probably the only way to go...Judaism makes Jews smarter.

[Sergio 11]

since society is very materialistic, there is a high demand for wordly things and therefore, there is a high cost to those things which you mentioned. 

I don't consider money spent on the kids' education an example of materialism. It is responsible parenting, in my opinion. The kids grow up to compete in the global economy with millions of Chinese and Indians now having a competitive edge over Westerners thanks to their superior educational system. Even in Iran, they have a good school system. A couple of years ago, Iranian students got the first place in the international physics competition. Thanks to liberal educators, the school systems are failing in the West. Parents have to supplement heavily if they want their children to have a chance of success in life.

A great Jewish education is probably the only way to go...Judaism makes Jews smarter.

I agree, one of the biggest problems is that a lot of people have lost there roots and in times of these faith prevails...

[judeanoncapta]

Someone here is telling me that Kahane didn't support Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates.  That would surprise me, because JTF seems to be a Kahanist organization, and JTF seems to support that.
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=264384&postcount=15
Is he right?  I support Israel as a Jewish State at least its current size and probably bigger with arrangements being made, but personally don't go that far.

Rabbi Kahane's position is that we keep every inch gained in 67 and if we are attacked again, we will take and much as we can get and then annex it, but Rav Kahane was not in favor of starting the war.

[q_q_]

he once joked that he is basically a moderate, so will allow them jordan.