Kahanist Singles > Jewish Singles
Pre-Marital sex. What is your take??
Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on June 13, 2008, 01:33:44 PM ---Better that if they are virgins at that time they are with someone who can hold back until the marraige is consumated. And better if he is able to provide for a home for his family than be still in school living in a tiny dorm room. In modern times, it's not easy to have all that all at once.
That's the only thing I disagree wtih with CF.
--- End quote ---
Where do you disagree with me? I never denied that it is extremely difficult for the average student to be able to provide and establish a home. It sounds like we agree.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on June 14, 2008, 10:50:14 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on June 13, 2008, 04:01:48 PM --- SOO for those guys who say that they dont mind marrying a non-virgin (unless she was married and then properly-Halahically divorced), they put themselves and her as Hayav Mita- thats the punishment of Death if they knew she slept with another man- which is a form of marriage, thus she was married to him and now is getting married to another man. On top of that the kids are mamzerim-
--- End quote ---
There is a phrase that the man says to announce it to mekadesh the woman. This is how it is done today. Am I wrong? You can't impose the old standards on today and say retroactively all these having premarital sex are actually marrying each other without realizing it..... Can you? Wouldn't that be sort of throwing the torah she bal peh out the window?
--- End quote ---
Yes, and that would mean that if a man says to a women mekadesh me, and gives a gift (worth more then 2 cents) even as a joke, it has been said that it is a problem, and their was a case with Rabbi Ovadia Yosef (where he was actualy lenient because their was only 1 kosher witness), but it was a problem for the girl because she wasn't alowed to get married in Israel, and the guy was trying to get as much $ from her as possible (I think it is called extortion).
About the Torah She Baal Pe- the first page dealing with Marriages- Mesehet "Kiddushim" - says that to acquire (get married) to a girl is one of 3 ways. 1- Have relations with her, 2- through an item, where you state its for a marriage and she accepts it, and the third I forgot.
But whatever, I am NOT stating exact halacha, because I am not qualified, BUT I am bringing what I know, so people can see the seriousness of this, and then for sure a good Rav and Beit Din would have to decide on how to handle the matter properly (and on top of that, now its also an embarrasment the women would probably go through admitting what she has done, but still it has to be done, but its such an important matter.)
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Yeah, I see what you're saying. ANd I'm familiar somewhat with the similar cases to what happened with Rabbi Yosef. People saying that phrase as a joke is not a joking matter. At all.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Also I don't know for sure, but I just don't think it's actually halachically binding as an actual "marriage" today when a sexual act was done. Of course I am not an authority and could also be wrong... But in terms of how serious it is or how serious a sexual act is , you are definitely right on that point.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on June 15, 2008, 12:22:40 AM ---Yeah, I see what you're saying. ANd I'm familiar somewhat with the similar cases to what happened with Rabbi Yosef. People saying that phrase as a joke is not a joking matter. At all.
--- End quote ---
Thats the problem with people in todays society. Everything is a joke for them. People do not realise the seriousness of their actions, and how one "joke" can affect a persons life in this world and the worlds to come. That case by the way had nothing to do with them having any physical contact, but even with a few words, the girl almost fell in the category where she would not be alowed to get married halahicaly (which in Israel means at all), unless she would give the guy a HUGG amount of money, or possibly this would lead to murder since having him dead would free her, or a number of many other problems, and this is just a few words, how much more soo having physical relations.
Thats why Jews should be educated in this field, and also all of the Torah so to make life soo much easier for themselves, their children , etc.
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