Jews and Gentiles

[Yonathan Ben Yakov]

i say this because i have a relative who thinks hes Jewish but doesn't know that hes really a Gentile (not theres anything wrong with that)

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Voted "yes", why have him live in a lie (either way, if he is gentile and thinks he is Jewish or if he is Jewish and thinks he is gentile), everyone has to know what they are, and should follow the proper way that is designed for them.

[Daniel Ben Hanania]

Voted "yes", why have him live in a lie (either way, if he is gentile and thinks he is Jewish or if he is Jewish and thinks he is gentile), everyone has to know what they are, and should follow the proper way that is designed for them.

but if you tell the person he might have a serious depression. imagine someone telling you your not Jewish

true. I have a friend (he lives in Israel), he thinks he is Jewish, but he is not. His mom is Russian and his dad Jewish, but they all keep shabat, kosher and etc. I would only imagine how crazy he would be if anyone will tell him that he is not  a Jew.

[kahaneloyalist]

It is important that people know if they are Jewish or not, so find a way to tell him gently, perphaps help him find a rabbi willing to perform the conversion, Chabad is usually very understanding and kind in these matters.

[IslamIsCancer]

And doesn't know it?
I thought all non-Jews were gentiles.
Don't people know if they are Jews or non-Jews?

[Bruicy Kibbutz]

Cant they still join jews against obama. You dont have to be a jew!

[q_q_]

You have to tell them they are not jewish.

It is when people don't know that it can cause serious problems when they get married.

In the case of a male - perhaps less so!!!!!! 

But he is sinning by keeping jewish law, and he is causing others to sin.  If he is called up, it is not legitimate, they have called a gentile to the torah.  If he is is included in the count for a mezuman(in benching). 

It could be a shock initially.

But he can convert. So it's not so terrible.

I know somebody that happened to.  He was black hat and tzitzit hanging out- still is. Then found out he wasn't jewish!!!!!!!!!!!   His mother had had a reform conversion and hadn't told him. I don't know how he found out.. Perhaps when he wanted to marry a girl!! 'cos they check it then.

So you better tell him now. Not you, but somebody old and wise with a friendly disposition. perhaps Somebody married. It has to be told nicely, but he has to be told

[Rubystars]

And doesn't know it?
I thought all non-Jews were gentiles.
Don't people know if they are Jews or non-Jews?

When I was growing up there was a girl who lived across the street from me who had a genuinely Jewish father and a Gentile mother but they raised her to believe she was Jewish and they followed some type of Reform Judaism. She self-identified as Jewish. So I suppose in the religious sense of following a split-off form of Judaism she could be "Jewish", but halachically of course she wasn't Jewish.

[spiritus_persona]

Everybody deserves to know their lineage.

[Dr. Dan]

i say this because i have a relative who thinks hes Jewish but doesn't know that hes really a Gentile (not theres anything wrong with that)

what makes him think he's Jewish?  Because he converted from a non Orthodox rabbi?

[Dr. Dan]

Voted "yes", why have him live in a lie (either way, if he is gentile and thinks he is Jewish or if he is Jewish and thinks he is gentile), everyone has to know what they are, and should follow the proper way that is designed for them.

but if you tell the person he might have a serious depression. imagine someone telling you your not Jewish

true. I have a friend (he lives in Israel), he thinks he is Jewish, but he is not. His mom is Russian and his dad Jewish, but they all keep shabat, kosher and etc. I would only imagine how crazy he would be if anyone will tell him that he is not  a Jew.

I think someone is a situation like that if he wants to marry a Jew, the Rabbi who would be preciding over the wedding would be the one to suggest that he go through a conversion.  I mean if it is coming from you, you can simply say, "Listen, in Israel they might not consider you a full Jew because it is only your father who's Jewish and if you really want to be considered legally a Jew in Israel, it might be wise to convert through an Orthodox rabbi..just my two cents." 


In other words, be gentle about your approach in saying somethign rather than in his face..."Grr, your not Jewish...grrrr..."  That's just plain cold..and i mean this in this situation.

[Rubystars]

In other words, be gentle about your approach in saying somethign rather than in his face..."Grr, your not Jewish...grrrr..."  That's just plain cold..and i mean this in this situation.

LOL! I was wondering what people thought, it has to be better for someone to wrongly believe they're Jewish and love Jews than it is for them to know they're not and be antisemitic.

[Dr. Dan]

In other words, be gentle about your approach in saying somethign rather than in his face..."Grr, your not Jewish...grrrr..."  That's just plain cold..and i mean this in this situation.

LOL! I was wondering what people thought, it has to be better for someone to wrongly believe they're Jewish and love Jews than it is for them to know they're not and be antisemitic.

Listen..when someone attempts to be righteous and do righteous things and has righteousnous in his/her heart, you're not supposed to point a finger and in a stern voice and say, "Oh you're not really Jewish blah blah blah..."  On the other hand you shoudl say, "I love it that you do all these things. However, I just wanted to inform you that I heard that it is your mother that has to be Jewish for you to legally in Israel to be considered Jewish. Maybe it would be best to get a legal conversion from an Orthodox Rabbi just to be sure there will not be problems in teh future when you want to marry a Jew and for the sake of your children as well."

the same goes with a Jew who thinks he is practicing Kashrut or Shabbat but isn't doing it right..you don't go to that person and say, "oh you're really not practicing Shabbat or Kashrut blah blha blha." but instead you say, "Might I suggest that you're not supposed to turn on the TV either on shabbat and chicken with milk really isn't appropriate for kashrut..just wanted you to know..."

[Zelhar]

Voted "yes", why have him live in a lie (either way, if he is gentile and thinks he is Jewish or if he is Jewish and thinks he is gentile), everyone has to know what they are, and should follow the proper way that is designed for them.

but if you tell the person he might have a serious depression. imagine someone telling you your not Jewish

true. I have a friend (he lives in Israel), he thinks he is Jewish, but he is not. His mom is Russian and his dad Jewish, but they all keep shabat, kosher and etc. I would only imagine how crazy he would be if anyone will tell him that he is not  a Jew.

it will give a heart attack or serious breakdown 99% for sure

If there is a real possibility that such knowledge will harm him so then clearly you shouldn't tell him. Otherwise I think if someone considers himself Jewish he should have at list the sufficient knowledge to know what makes one a Jew. I know that in USSR a Jewish identity was more an ethnic identity and it was officially traced through the paternal line. Still the Russians should have no say on who is a Jew...

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Voted "yes", why have him live in a lie (either way, if he is gentile and thinks he is Jewish or if he is Jewish and thinks he is gentile), everyone has to know what they are, and should follow the proper way that is designed for them.

but if you tell the person he might have a serious depression. imagine someone telling you your not Jewish

 Yea, but the truth is the truth, and they have to know. Anyway then by knowing the truth, they can do what they decide is right for them. They can either stay non-Jews, or if they feel they have such a strong connection and their soul is telling them they are Jews, then they can convert.
  How many thousands of people (expecialy in our communityies have been shocked hearing for the first time in their lives that they have been living a lie- by not following the Torah and expecialy the covenent between G-d and the Jews- which is Shabb-t, now thank G-d, Bli Ayin Hara, after the shock many people are keeping Shabb-t, keeping kosher, learning Torah (for starters), but also much much more. A shock is not always a bad thing as Rabbi Mizrachi said.
 
 I just remembered, growing up, even though I didn't go to Yeshiva in grade school, me and my friend knew what constitutes who is a Jew (I did learn some things in Jewish summer camp, through this JEP program every wednesday and also neighbors). So we had this girl who technicaly was not/ is not Jewish, and she always said that she is both Jewish and Christian. We told her that she is not Jewish, and that I wouldn't marry her when we grow up  , she is smart and hoot though, soo if it wasn't for the fact that she is a shiksa I might have made a move.

[nikmatdam]

is that a typo in the title or are you suggesting something else...? nik.

[Rubystars]

In other words, be gentle about your approach in saying somethign rather than in his face..."Grr, your not Jewish...grrrr..."  That's just plain cold..and i mean this in this situation.

LOL! I was wondering what people thought, it has to be better for someone to wrongly believe they're Jewish and love Jews than it is for them to know they're not and be antisemitic.

Listen..when someone attempts to be righteous and do righteous things and has righteousnous in his/her heart, you're not supposed to point a finger and in a stern voice and say, "Oh you're not really Jewish blah blah blah..."  On the other hand you shoudl say, "I love it that you do all these things. However, I just wanted to inform you that I heard that it is your mother that has to be Jewish for you to legally in Israel to be considered Jewish. Maybe it would be best to get a legal conversion from an Orthodox Rabbi just to be sure there will not be problems in teh future when you want to marry a Jew and for the sake of your children as well."

Great points Dan I don't see how being mean to someone is going to convince them of anything, much less such a personal issue as identity.

[Dr. Dan]

is that a typo in the title or are you suggesting something else...? nik.

oops....Jews and genitles...yes, men need to be circumscribed...i mean circumcized...

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

In other words, be gentle about your approach in saying somethign rather than in his face..."Grr, your not Jewish...grrrr..."  That's just plain cold..and i mean this in this situation.

LOL! I was wondering what people thought, it has to be better for someone to wrongly believe they're Jewish and love Jews than it is for them to know they're not and be antisemitic.

Listen..when someone attempts to be righteous and do righteous things and has righteousnous in his/her heart, you're not supposed to point a finger and in a stern voice and say, "Oh you're not really Jewish blah blah blah..."  On the other hand you shoudl say, "I love it that you do all these things. However, I just wanted to inform you that I heard that it is your mother that has to be Jewish for you to legally in Israel to be considered Jewish. Maybe it would be best to get a legal conversion from an Orthodox Rabbi just to be sure there will not be problems in teh future when you want to marry a Jew and for the sake of your children as well."

Great points Dan I don't see how being mean to someone is going to convince them of anything, much less such a personal issue as identity.

  Why does everything get referred to as being shown that its being mean. Bottom line- someone is standing on a railroad track, the train is coming, and you tell him to move. If he moves fine, if not then you push him for his own benifit, but whatever it takes you get the job done, for his own benifit. (thats not saying be an ahole, but tell him or her about their situation in life, and do not lie about it making things seem okay when in reality- a train is about to hit them).

[Dr. Dan]

In other words, be gentle about your approach in saying somethign rather than in his face..."Grr, your not Jewish...grrrr..."  That's just plain cold..and i mean this in this situation.

LOL! I was wondering what people thought, it has to be better for someone to wrongly believe they're Jewish and love Jews than it is for them to know they're not and be antisemitic.

Listen..when someone attempts to be righteous and do righteous things and has righteousnous in his/her heart, you're not supposed to point a finger and in a stern voice and say, "Oh you're not really Jewish blah blah blah..."  On the other hand you shoudl say, "I love it that you do all these things. However, I just wanted to inform you that I heard that it is your mother that has to be Jewish for you to legally in Israel to be considered Jewish. Maybe it would be best to get a legal conversion from an Orthodox Rabbi just to be sure there will not be problems in teh future when you want to marry a Jew and for the sake of your children as well."

Great points Dan I don't see how being mean to someone is going to convince them of anything, much less such a personal issue as identity.

  Why does everything get referred to as being shown that its being mean. Bottom line- someone is standing on a railroad track, the train is coming, and you tell him to move. If he moves fine, if not then you push him for his own benifit, but whatever it takes you get the job done, for his own benifit. (thats not saying be an ahole, but tell him or her about their situation in life, and do not lie about it making things seem okay when in reality- a train is about to hit them).

Tzvi....

THere are two ways of telling the truth...the nice way or the a..hole way...You think it's better to be an a..hole...I think for certain people, you should be an a..hole.  But people you care about in love, it depends..Some need tender care when you tell them the truth. Others, well, down right honesty might be the better thing.

It just depends...sometimes you have to tell the truth in a nice way...sometimes you have to tell the truth the mean [censored] way..

[q_q_]

you should say it nicely

But really Dan, when I read what you wrote, I didn't bother to respond to you because I realised I would be hitting my head against a brick wall. Religiously you're a hopeless liberal  with no logic. And i'm still not going to respond.
No orthodox jew would value your words any more than urine.

The only people you might convince, are gentiles that don't know any better, or jews that are not orthodox and don't know any better.

Here is what you wrote again.
"
I think someone is a situation like that if he wants to marry a Jew, the Rabbi who would be preciding over the wedding would be the one to suggest that he go through a conversion.  I mean if it is coming from you, you can simply say, "Listen, in Israel they might not consider you a full Jew because it is only your father who's Jewish and if you really want to be considered legally a Jew in Israel, it might be wise to convert through an Orthodox rabbi..just my two cents." 


In other words, be gentle about your approach in saying somethign rather than in his face..."Grr, your not Jewish...grrrr..."  That's just plain cold..and i mean this in this situation.
"

[MasterWolf1]

I think they should know if they are Gentile, just like one should know if they are Jewish

[Dr. Dan]

you should say it nicely

But really Dan, when I read what you wrote, I didn't bother to respond to you because I realised I would be hitting my head against a brick wall. Religiously you're a hopeless liberal  with no logic. And i'm still not going to respond.
No orthodox jew would value your words any more than urine.

The only people you might convince, are gentiles that don't know any better, or jews that are not orthodox and don't know any better.

Here is what you wrote again.
"
I think someone is a situation like that if he wants to marry a Jew, the Rabbi who would be preciding over the wedding would be the one to suggest that he go through a conversion.  I mean if it is coming from you, you can simply say, "Listen, in Israel they might not consider you a full Jew because it is only your father who's Jewish and if you really want to be considered legally a Jew in Israel, it might be wise to convert through an Orthodox rabbi..just my two cents." 


In other words, be gentle about your approach in saying somethign rather than in his face..."Grr, your not Jewish...grrrr..."  That's just plain cold..and i mean this in this situation.
"

Are you trying to say that Orthodox Jews value urine too?    That sounds really nice of you to say.

[nopeaceforland]

I voted yes as well, and I'll tell you why. I was in a carpool with a person who gives Italians a bad name. A real snob, witch and I'm guessing an antiSemite. She actually told myself and the other person in my carpool (we're both Jewish) that her sister married somebody Jewish. The couple now has a half-breed child. It happened to be around Hanukah/Christmas time, and this girl in the carpool is actually telling us that she plans to teach this kid EVERYthing about Christianity and zero about Judaism despite what the parents of this kid feel they want to do. So yes, you must tell this kid what he/she is.

Mistaken identity happened a lot during the Holocaust, so tell the kid. Why not!?

[AsheDina]

  Well, you know, this is REALLY HARD for me. HARD. My Roots going back to the way b4 1400's in Portugal with forced catholic conversions, that have effected my personal Jewish roots for generations.. Inquisition.. For ie: I ALWAYS want to know EXACTLY what people are thinking of me. I ABHOR when missionized, or preached to. DisLoyalty is an ABOMINATION to me, and I cannot stay friends with a person, AT ALL, if they have backstabbed, been disloyal, or refuse to take up for me. I almost ALWAYS need some type reassuring from CLOSE family, or the few friends that I have, that I am doing right.  I CANNOT take being under a personal spot-light, and DEF. get truly AFRAID when someone approaches me, if I perhaps have offended them, I almost feel scared that they will kill me, I KNOW this sounds NUTS, ( I CONSTANTLY have to work on this, EVERYDAY, all the time). There are too MANY little things like this, that I have had to pray and ask G-d to please help me deal with, each one is a battle.

  When people tell me that I am not a Jew, because of how I present myself,  I am not orthodox, and not NEARLY as strong as many here on the frum, I keep Sabbath, in a very 'maverick' way. I get choked up and cannot breathe, if people tell me that I am not a good "christian" I get just as choked up. It is NOT easy having come from a line that are Cryptos, both faiths are in our roots and family now. My whole family is so secretive, Right away, if I meet a person that I REALLY like, I tell the person ALL of the BAD points about my character, so that they know straightaway.  Family's that are crypto, are TOUGH to deal with, they share NOTHING with even each-other.

  So, HOW DOES one tell if a person is Jew or Gentile? Because of my little insecurities, I take people at their word, and warm up to them instantly.. I suppose It doesent matter to me, AS LONG as the persons intentions are true, and they mean WELL.  I suppose this would really bother a person that has BOTH mother AND father that are Jewish.. perhaps people 'want' to be Jewish? I dont know.  I would suggest to a person like this to get all of his roots and find out for himself.  This is really hard for me, I opened myself up here, because Q's like this get to me. I know THIS much, should I be blessed with a son, he is going to a GOOD Hebrew school, and that is just the BOTTOM line.  So, I will go keep Sabbath in Orthodox Temples, etc..  so that my child is STRONG in Judaism. And, if I should be blessed with a son, from the love of my life, his name is: Judah David. Just for the record.    Cool huh?  avid does NOT want his child in a whiney leftist school, so we are probably going to need a LOT of HELP. TY.