Idiot from Shas please don't show Beirut celebration

[q_q_]

q_q, of course I'm Jewish.  All the JTF admins are Jewish. 

So just  to make sure I understand you, the Neturei Karta believe in extreme pacifism, extreme dhimmi status of Jews, not fighting back, and sucking up to enemies of the Jewish people in the misguided belief that it will keep Jews safe.  Frankly, it sounds to me like the direct opposite of Kahane's philosophy. 
<snip>

But getting back to the N.K. people, defending them here would be like me going to Phylis Schlafly's Eagle Forum, and posting about how badly I feel when they bash Gloria Steinem. 

I do not defend or attack anybody or groups in some generic mode, like a defence lawyer.

I defended them from a particular criticism.

They were being accused of being holocaust deniers and wanting to kill jews.  

It's completely false. I argued against criticism.

I have criticised them on exactly the same point that rabbi kahane did, which is that they stand with our enemies.

Their basic philosophy, is the same as satmar. And just as rabbi kahane said many times that satmar have a valid torah position, and that if one wants to follow the satmar rav, then follow the satmar rav.
So similarly, one can defend this basic philosophy, from an attack that it is "not judaism" or something of that sort.

Thus my position is here is entirely that of Rabbi Meir Kahane ZTL HYD.

And this point about satmar has been pointed out many times, by myself, and tzvi also. That Rabbi Kahane recognised their position as a torah position. Rabbi Kahane's material is online - audio and video, and some of it is to a religious jewish audience.  (it's not all talk shows). And I would suggest that any religious jew on a kahanist forum make themselves familiar with it.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

q_q, of course I'm Jewish.  All the JTF admins are Jewish. 

So just  to make sure I understand you, the Neturei Karta believe in extreme pacifism, extreme dhimmi status of Jews, not fighting back, and sucking up to enemies of the Jewish people in the misguided belief that it will keep Jews safe.  Frankly, it sounds to me like the direct opposite of Kahane's philosophy. 
<snip>

But getting back to the N.K. people, defending them here would be like me going to Phylis Schlafly's Eagle Forum, and posting about how badly I feel when they bash Gloria Steinem. 

 And I would suggest that any religious jew on a kahanist forum make themselves familiar with it.

 Definitly, every Jew (who at the very least calls himself a Kahanist) should read and own "Or Harayon" - both volumes. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thus my position is here is entirely that of Rabbi Meir Kahane ZTL HYD.

And this point about satmar has been pointed out many times, by myself, and tzvi also. That Rabbi Kahane recognised their position as a torah position. Rabbi Kahane's material is online - audio and video, and some of it is to a religious jewish audience.  (it's not all talk shows). And I would suggest that any religious jew on a kahanist forum make themselves familiar with it.

I would like very much to hear what Chaim has to say about your claims of HaRav Kahane defending the Satmar "rabbi".

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Lisa I was thinking of the whole Torah (which is both Oral and Written together, as our sages say that the Written Torah cant be understood and learned without the Oral Torah), but whatever, if you want the $20, I have no problem giving it. If you want come to this event http://torahanytime.com/event.php?p=1  on Monday, and I will give it to you their.

I don't think she is holding her breath that you will be making good on it anytime soon.

 Their is your problem. You dont think for yourself and always think for others, and what others think and believe!

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Thus my position is here is entirely that of Rabbi Meir Kahane ZTL HYD.

And this point about satmar has been pointed out many times, by myself, and tzvi also. That Rabbi Kahane recognised their position as a torah position. Rabbi Kahane's material is online - audio and video, and some of it is to a religious jewish audience.  (it's not all talk shows). And I would suggest that any religious jew on a kahanist forum make themselves familiar with it.

I would like very much to hear what Chaim has to say about your claims of HaRav Kahane defending the Satmar "rabbi".

 lol Rav Kahane directly has said so himself, so why ask any other person if the proof is from the Rav's own lips and own writing?

[q_q_]

Lisa I was thinking of the whole Torah (which is both Oral and Written together, as our sages say that the Written Torah cant be understood and learned without the Oral Torah), but whatever, if you want the $20, I have no problem giving it. If you want come to this event http://torahanytime.com/event.php?p=1  on Monday, and I will give it to you their.

You must be the most annoying kiruv maniac I have ever seen..

But I must say, the quality of your posts have improved tremendously over the year, I agree with you more than almost anybody else..  I'm sure in another year you'll be even better.  Your knowledge and wisdom  improves with time, like good wine!

[q_q_]

Thus my position is here is entirely that of Rabbi Meir Kahane ZTL HYD.

And this point about satmar has been pointed out many times, by myself, and tzvi also. That Rabbi Kahane recognised their position as a torah position. Rabbi Kahane's material is online - audio and video, and some of it is to a religious jewish audience.  (it's not all talk shows). And I would suggest that any religious jew on a kahanist forum make themselves familiar with it.

I would like very much to hear what Chaim has to say about your claims of HaRav Kahane defending the Satmar "rabbi".

I didn't use that expression that he "defended him". Certainly he differed with him on core issues.

Don't address me.   My posts here are written for many but specifically not for you, for reasons I have already mentioned. The only time I am addressing you might be if I quote you, and even then it's unlikely that I am addressing you.

[DownwithIslam]

True. You did explain it to me politely enough.  But you haven't always been that way with Dr. Dan, DownwithIslam and C.F. 

Now I realize you might find DownwithIslam's language off-putting and that's your prerogative.  But none of them are stupid.  You could say, "I don't appreciate your language," and ask them to rephrase their posts.  I always tell people here to focus on facts, rather than using epithets, when discussing R.O.Y.  I guess it's obvious that no-one listens to me. 

Otherwise, you said in your earlier post that it is forbidden to teach Torah to gentiles.  You didn't specify that you meant the Oral Law. 

Lisa, I appreciate you defending me and you are indeed owed 20 dollars. I would suggest you set up a paypal account and have him forward the money over to you. You will make it easier for him to keep his word as I wouldn't expect you to go to brooklyn or queens to the shiur.

Lisa, I should also point out that it is not my language which is most offensive. I never ever initiate personal attacks on anyone. That cant be said of some others here who think that only they are talmudic experts.

[Lisa]

Tzvi, thank you, but you don't have to pay me anything.  Save the money.  Or give it to a charity of your choice if you like.  Or buy yourself something with it.  

[DownwithIslam]

Tzvi, thank you, but you don't have to pay me anything.  Save the money.  Or give it to a charity of your choice if you like.  Or buy yourself something with it.  

Lisa, I suggest you take the money. If someone publicly makes a bet in a haughty way, they should be responsible for the outcome. In this case, you clearly had a source to back up your claim.

[Lisa]

I defended them from a particular criticism.

They were being accused of being holocaust deniers and wanting to kill jews. 

So q_q, if they're not holocaust deniers, what were they doing at Ahmadinejad's holocaust denial conference?  And while they're not going out their shooting other Jews dead with machine guns, the N.K's are certainly conferring moral legitimacy on holocaust deniers by going to their events. 

[DownwithIslam]

Especially in light of the fact that certain people on this forum think that they know kol hatorah kula and nobody else knows anything. Lisa, you proved your detractors wrong.

[DownwithIslam]

I defended them from a particular criticism.

They were being accused of being holocaust deniers and wanting to kill jews. 

So q_q, if they're not holocaust deniers, what were they doing at Ahmadinejad's holocaust denial conference?  And while they're not going out their shooting other Jews dead with machine guns, the N.K's are certainly conferring moral legitimacy on holocaust deniers by going to their events. 

Lisa, I doubt your Jewish enough for him to acknowledge you as a human being. I hate the holier than thou attitude of some here.

[Lisa]

Lisa, I suggest you take the money. If someone publicly makes a bet in a haughty way, they should be responsible for the outcome. In this case, you clearly had a source to back up your claim.

No I won't take his money.  But I will insist that Tzvi and q_q be more patient and humble when dealing with their fellow JTF'ers.

[DownwithIslam]

Lisa, I suggest you take the money. If someone publicly makes a bet in a haughty way, they should be responsible for the outcome. In this case, you clearly had a source to back up your claim.

No I won't take his money.  But I will insist that Tzvi and q_q be more patient and humble when dealing with their fellow JTF'ers.

At least he should donate that money to JTF. That would be a fair compromise. Obviously I can't tell him to do so but you can. He owes you the money so if you won't take it, have him donate it to jtf in your name.

[q_q_]

I defended them from a particular criticism.

They were being accused of being holocaust deniers and wanting to kill jews. 

So q_q, if they're not holocaust deniers, what were they doing at Ahmadinejad's holocaust denial conference?  And while they're not going out their shooting other Jews dead with machine guns, the N.K's are certainly conferring moral legitimacy on holocaust deniers by going to their events. 

Barry Chamish planned on going to a holocaust denier event.  He was billed as a "holocaust believer".

He was basically there to spread his message and sell his books.

I am not defending that, but don't say he is a holocaust denier.  (and don't quote daniel pipes!)

You still haven't understood this very clear point.  I am not defending them going to the holocaust denial conference. I am saying they are not holocaust deniers.
 
I have already told you, I am not generically defending them like their defence lawyer. I defended them against very specific criticisms.  As mentioned.

I am not defending them going to the holocaust denial conference.

this is not rocket science

[Lisa]

I would rather not beat him over the head with it, just as I don't like it when others beat each other over the head here.  

[DownwithIslam]

I defended them from a particular criticism.

They were being accused of being holocaust deniers and wanting to kill jews. 

So q_q, if they're not holocaust deniers, what were they doing at Ahmadinejad's holocaust denial conference?  And while they're not going out their shooting other Jews dead with machine guns, the N.K's are certainly conferring moral legitimacy on holocaust deniers by going to their events. 

Barry Chamish planned on going to a holocaust denier event.  He was billed as a "holocaust believer".

He was basically there to spread his message and sell his books.

I am not defending that, but don't say he is a holocaust denier.  (and don't quote daniel pipes!)

You still haven't understood this very clear point.  I am not defending them going to the holocaust denial conference. I am saying they are not holocaust deniers.
 
I have already told you, I am not generically defending them like their defence lawyer. I defended them against very specific criticisms.  As mentioned.

I am not defending them going to the holocaust denial conference.

this is not rocket science

Ok we undestand, you are saying that they are not Holocaut deniers. But the facts prove otherwise. If they went to an event which was there solely to prove the holocaust never happened, how can you say they are not holocaust deniers. This is completely talking out of two sides of your mouth.

[Lisa]

You still haven't understood this very clear point.  I am not defending them going to the holocaust denial conference. I am saying they are not holocaust deniers.
 
I have already told you, I am not generically defending them like their defence lawyer. I defended them against very specific criticisms.  As mentioned.

I am not defending them going to the holocaust denial conference.

this is not rocket science

Ah, but you still haven't answered the very simple question I asked you.  If the N.K. are not holocaust deniers, what were they doing at the holocaust denial conference in Iran?  It's not, as you say "rocket science."  

[DownwithIslam]

Lisa, maybe he is writing up a long answer about how we are ignorant in torah and why mord is "Also not a deep thinker."

[Lisa]

Lisa, maybe he is writing up a long answer about how we are ignorant in torah and why mord is "Also not a deep thinker."

 

[DownwithIslam]

I think their is something else worth pointing out. Groups like Chabad always look to find the good in every jew. It is worth mentioning that the people who we have seen attack other jews on this forum are also anti Chabad. The funny thing is that one of them did try to find "the good" in one group, but it happened to be the neturei karta. He actually tried to defend the neturei karta but he didn't extend the same courtesy to chabad.

[Dr. Dan]

I think their is something else worth pointing out. Groups like Chabad always look to find the good in every jew. It is worth mentioning that the people who we have seen attack other jews on this forum are also anti Chabad. The funny thing is that one of them did try to find "the good" in one group, but it happened to be the neturei karta. He actually tried to defend the neturei karta but he didn't extend the same courtesy to chabad.

I see where you are going with this, DWI...

When one is kind to the cruel, they eventually become merciless to the kind...

[DownwithIslam]

I think their is something else worth pointing out. Groups like Chabad always look to find the good in every jew. It is worth mentioning that the people who we have seen attack other jews on this forum are also anti Chabad. The funny thing is that one of them did try to find "the good" in one group, but it happened to be the neturei karta. He actually tried to defend the neturei karta but he didn't extend the same courtesy to chabad.

I see where you are going with this, DWI...

When one is kind to the cruel, they eventually become merciless to the kind...

You took the words right out of my mouth. That is exactly what I meant.

[q_q_]

You still haven't understood this very clear point.  I am not defending them going to the holocaust denial conference. I am saying they are not holocaust deniers.
 
I have already told you, I am not generically defending them like their defence lawyer. I defended them against very specific criticisms.  As mentioned.

I am not defending them going to the holocaust denial conference.

this is not rocket science

Ah, but you still haven't answered the very simple question I asked you.  If the N.K. are not holocaust deniers, what were they doing at the holocaust denial conference in Iran?  It's not, as you say "rocket science."  

The answer is that they are there to spread their message.  That's what they do. That's all they do! It gets publicity for their message.

The Barry Chamish example I gave earler to answer your conundrum, was quite appropriate.