Challenge to Ralph

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Ralph,

We all saw your question to Chaim this week. Tell me--just what is your deal, bro? I remember at one point last year you told us you have a significant gambling problem, but you haven't exactly shared anything else about yourself. You don't like white people, you don't like Christians, you don't want blacks to leave--why are you here? Tell us exactly who you are. So, we know you aren't white and aren't Christian--neither is 7/8 of the population of the earth. What racial background are you? Are you black? Asian? Hispanic? What religion are you, if you have any? And yes--for the record, I agree that Buddhists, etc. should be part of our movement (considering they are getting murdered by Muslim Nazis in nations like Sri Lanka), but what exactly do you have against white Christians?

Last but not least--do you support Israel or Jews at all? I haven't ever actually seen you say that you do, or for that matter, agree with our core beliefs, at all.

I'm eager to hear your answers.
Chaimfan

[Shamgar]

Comrade Ralph, I also read your post with interest. I am a Christian white person who is an American. Notice the American is not proceded by a hyphen.

I have no problem with people of color, if they act like civilized people. I am not a rascist. If Clarence Thomas was running for president, I would vote for him before I would vote for McCain. I don't care for people that consider themselves victims or play the group politics game. If you are downtrodden, you have the God-given ability to lift yourself out of that hole if you work together, united as a team. People of color fail because thier lives are filled with hate by the poor leadership that they pick.

And bottom line, in response to your comment about supporting Israel and the Jews, I don't need Israel or the Jews to go to heaven, I have already achieved that privelige, which is based on my belief in the New Testament. Out of respect for my allies on this forum I won't go into that here, but I would be glad to debate that with you in a PM.

Yes God tells us to support his people, Israel and Jerusalem, but if I was an athiest, the intelligent decision, would still be to support the Jews. If you take religion totally out of the picture, and look at this strictly from a political persepctive. The Jews are right and Islam sucks.

I have read to the end of the Book and the Temple will be rebuilt and all of you friggin demons are going to spend eternity in a lake of fire.

Ralph, sorry if I offend, but get a life and make something out of yourself.

[George]

Ralph,

We all saw your question to Chaim this week. Tell me--just what is your deal, bro? I remember at one point last year you told us you have a significant gambling problem, but you haven't exactly shared anything else about yourself.

I have completely overcome that addiction and it was the most difficult and stressful time of my life.

You don't like white people, you don't like Christians, you don't want blacks to leave--why are you here? Tell us exactly who you are. So, we know you aren't white and aren't Christian--neither is 7/8 of the population of the earth. What racial background are you? Are you black? Asian? Hispanic? What religion are you, if you have any? And yes--for the record, I agree that Buddhists, etc. should be part of our movement (considering they are getting murdered by Muslim Nazis in nations like Sri Lanka), but what exactly do you have against white Christians?

I once mentioned my mother is an Iranian Jew and my father is an Iranian Armenian. I don't consider myself Jewish religiously. If you are a Christian, that's fine I have no problem with that. I once agreed with JTF on virtually everything but began to gradually disagree after I started thinking of the persecution the Jews had to suffer in Europe. I believe the White Christians in America are using the Jews for their own spiritual benefit. They hate Jews and they foster ancient hatred against them. Even Ann Coulter showed her dark side. The Jews are 'a people that shall dwell alone' and there are many Jews who believe there should be no alliance with non-Jews. I wouldn't go that far because I think Hindus, Sikhs and Asians are worthy allies. When Allen-T was banned there were many Christians that showed their true face during that affair and they were banned as well. 'Christian Love' comes to mind. I don't like the Blacks for using slavery as an excuse to hate Whites because they would've been worse to Whites had they had their power. Blacks hate Jews and all non-Blacks and I would like to see them deported without a penny in compensation. I know that Chaim knows there will be a conflict between White Christians and Jews in the future so I don't understand his unity with them. I know you'll disagree but my father was very compelling in convincing me that Iranian Jews were generally treated better in Iran than the Ashkenazim were in Europe.

Last but not least--do you support Israel or Jews at all? I haven't ever actually seen you say that you do, or for that matter, agree with our core beliefs, at all.

I'm eager to hear your answers.
Chaimfan

Of course I do. I prefer to discuss my disagreements, that's why I don't discuss Israel much.

[George]

I have read to the end of the Book and the Temple will be rebuilt and all of you friggin demons are going to spend eternity in a lake of fire.

That is the exact type of arrogant, shameful and conceited garbage I'm talking about. I guess all non-Christians deserve to go to hell, right?

Ralph, sorry if I offend, but get a life and make something out of yourself.

You want me to make something out of myself by doing what? Converting to Christianity?

[Lisa]

I know that Chaim knows there will be a conflict between White Christians and Jews in the future so I don't understand his unity with them.

I listened to the show this afternoon, and I don't remember Chaim saying there will be a conflict with white Christians in the future.  He just said that we differ on theology. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If your dad was "Iranian Armenian" what would he know about how Jews were treated in Iran?   Lots of Iranians say they treated Jews so benevolently, but not so with Islam.  And Islam has long been an influence in Iran.   Try asking some actual Iranian Jews; what does your mom say about it?   Often the Iranian Jews have a different story to tell than the prideful Persians with their bragging about tolerance.   Secondly, who cares about this kind of argument?  There's no "popularity contest" about who treated their Jews the best in history and that's who you can trust or can't trust.   How the non-Jews treat the Jews is like the passing wind, good one day but could become bad at any drop of the hat.  And in most places in history it was bad at at least some time or another.   That is why our place is only in Israel, with a Jewish leadership.    

Look deeper into "Iranian" history and you will see that the quite benevolent Persian regime in Bavel became totally oppressive and brutal against Jews in the later centuries leading up to the Islamic invasion after muhammad (after the long period of "tolerance" and goodwill that Jews enjoyed in Bavel for quite a long time).  The talmud details some of the cruel horrible things the Persian regime began to do to persecute Jews.   But like all Diaspora communities, the Bavel Jews should have known better that it wouldn't last forever.  THe goodwill never lasts forever.    (Just as today, the Iranian regime shows its true jihad colors against  Israel while it pays lipservice to the 1/4 of Iranian Jews who still remain after the Islamic revolution and whom the Iranian regime kindly "tolerates" by not wiping them out - how generous of them)
  
But anyone who is willing to show goodwill toward us NOW, why shouldn't we accept it?   That is just silly.   The Iranian mullahs are building nukes and arming hezbollah to launch rockets at our cities as they have already done, and I'm supposed to feel nostalgic about the "past" tolerance of Iran rather than accept the CURRENT evangelical support for Israel?   That is insanity.

[George]

He once said if America is attacked with nuclear weapons, the economy will suffer and an anti-Semitic demagogue will take power. David Duke outright blamed the Jews for 9/11 and I think he would be a good candidate.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

In addition, it is both unfair and inaccurate to equate the Christians of European past (and present, although many are becoming atheist there) -  with American Christians.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I once mentioned my mother is an Iranian Jew and my father is an Iranian Armenian.

Then you are Jewish whether or not you observe.

I once agreed with JTF on virtually everything but began to gradually disagree after I started thinking of the persecution the Jews had to suffer in Europe.

What does JTF have to do with historic persecution?

I believe the White Christians in America are using the Jews for their own spiritual benefit. They hate Jews and they foster ancient hatred against them.

What is your evidence for this? This is rather silly, don't you think?

Sidenote--what do you think of nonwhite Christians such as Joseph Farah and Alan Keyes?

Even Ann Coulter showed her dark side.

Ann Coulter is not a Christian, just a loudmouthed fraud who is paid handsomely by big corporations to be their stooge.

because I think Hindus, Sikhs and Asians are worthy allies.

You don't think there are anti-Semitic Asians? What do you think of the regimes in China and North Korea? Or Asian Muslims?

When Allen-T was banned there were many Christians that showed their true face during that affair and they were banned as well. 'Christian Love' comes to mind.

Two members isn't many. The only so-called Christian posters I recall who took Anus-T's side were Christian Love (as you mentioned) and ftf. The vast majority of us detest that porn-posting homosexual Nazi. They constituted about five percent of all of our "Christian" members at that time, hardly "many".

I know that Chaim knows there will be a conflict between White Christians and Jews in the future so I don't understand his unity with them.

What are you talking about?

I know you'll disagree but my father was very compelling in convincing me that Iranian Jews were generally treated better in Iran than the Ashkenazim were in Europe.

That's because the shah actually did treat them well for his reign. But he ruled Iran for about forty years out of a 5,000 year history in that Nazi nation.

Of course I do. I prefer to discuss my disagreements, that's why I don't discuss Israel much.

This almost sounds like a trolling statement.

[George]

If your dad was "Iranian Armenian" what would he know about how Jews were treated in Iran?   Lots of Iranians say they treated Jews so benevolently, but not so with Islam.  And Islam has long been an influence in Iran.   Try asking some actual Iranian Jews; what does your mom say about it?   Often the Iranian Jews have a different story to tell than the prideful Persians with their bragging about tolerance.   Secondly, who cares about this kind of argument?  There's no "popularity contest" about who treated their Jews the best in history and that's who you can trust or can't trust.   How the non-Jews treat the Jews is like the passing wind, good one day but could become bad at any drop of the hat.  And in most places in history it was bad at at least some time or another.   That is why our place is only in Israel, with a Jewish leadership.   

Look deeper into "Iranian" history and you will see that the quite benevolent Persian regime in Bavel became totally oppressive and brutal against Jews in the later centuries leading up to the Islamic invasion after muhammad (after the long period of "tolerance" and goodwill that Jews enjoyed in Bavel for quite a long time).  The talmud details some of the cruel horrible things the Persian regime began to do to persecute Jews.   But like all Diaspora communities, the Bavel Jews should have known better that it wouldn't last forever.  THe goodwill never lasts forever.    (Just as today, the Iranian regime shows its true jihad colors against  Israel while it pays lipservice to the 1/4 of Iranian Jews who still remain after the Islamic revolution and whom the Iranian regime kindly "tolerates" by not wiping them out - how generous of them)
 
But anyone who is willing to show goodwill toward us NOW, why shouldn't we accept it?   That is just silly.   The Iranian mullahs are building nukes and arming hezbollah to launch rockets at our cities as they have already done, and I'm supposed to feel nostalgic about the "past" tolerance of Iran rather than accept the CURRENT evangelical support for Israel?   That is insanity.

I'm sorry I mistyped I meant my mom. The Jews were treated worse In Europe. This is not even a matter of debate. The Holocaust alone put the Jews through more torment than all of Iranian history. I despise the Muslims anyway, so it doesn't make much difference for me.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

He once said if America is attacked with nuclear weapons, the economy will suffer and an anti-Semitic demagogue will take power. David Duke outright blamed the Jews for 9/11 and I think he would be a good candidate.

David Duke couldn't get 1% of 1% of the white vote if his life depended on it. Pat Buchanan, who has the same views but is very slightly less open about them, got .5% of the vote in 2000.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

He once said if America is attacked with nuclear weapons, the economy will suffer and an anti-Semitic demagogue will take power. David Duke outright blamed the Jews for 9/11 and I think he would be a good candidate.

David Duke couldn't get 1% of 1% of the white vote if his life depended on it. Pat Buchanan, who has the same views but is very slightly less open about them, got .5% of the vote in 2000.

 Thats for now, the economy is still standing and okay (at least this is what people think, and aren't panicking yett). Once the country goes bankrupt and people realise it, this country will be a bigger mess. Also once Osama gets elected, people like Duke and others like him will have an easier chance of being elected, thats if the country wont be destroyed enough.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The Jews were treated worse In Europe. This is not even a matter of debate.

I beg to differ. The savage extermination campaigns Mohammed (ys"vz) spearheaded against the Arabian Jews of the Quraysh tribes was being treated better than in Europe? The fiendish pogroms that the Iranian Zoroastrians committed hundreds of years before Islam even existed were benevolent? The only reason they weren't able to pull off a Shoah was the fact that the technology did not exist for it at the time. The vicious riots and pogroms that broke out across the Islamic world in 1948, against Jews who had lived there for 2,000 years, were tolerant?

Please read up on some facts.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thats for now, the economy is still standing and okay (at least this is what people think, and aren't panicking yett). Once the country goes bankrupt and people realise it, this country will be a bigger mess. Also once Osama gets elected, people like Duke and others like him will have an easier chance of being elected, thats if the country wont be destroyed enough.

The people who would be receptive to David Duke (or for that matter Barack Obama) are not Christians. David Duke is a pagan (an Odinist, or Asatru) who wants whites worldwide to embrace the ancient Nordic animist religion. Most true white supremacists today are atheists/agnostics or pagans.

[George]

What does JTF have to do with historic persecution?

JTF is pro-Christian and pro White even though Whites have a history of murdering them.

What is your evidence for this? This is rather silly, don't you think?

I can't produce evidence for everything but I believe everyone keeps grudges. All the Armenians I ever spoke with hate Turks, Blacks hate Whites because of slavery, Chinese dislike the Japanese etc.

Sidenote--what do you think of nonwhite Christians such as Joseph Farah and Alan Keyes?

Non-white Christians were not in a position to harm Jews unlike White Christians so I don't know.

Ann Coulter is not a Christian, just a loudmouthed fraud who is paid handsomely by big corporations to be their stooge.

If she isn't a Christian I don't know who is.

You don't think there are anti-Semitic Asians? What do you think of the regimes in China and North Korea? Or Asian Muslims?

China and North Korea are evil governments. I doubt the Chinese or Koreans would be remotely as anti-Jewish as Whites.

This almost sounds like a trolling statement.

I don't come on forums to agree with people. That's pretty boring.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If your dad was "Iranian Armenian" what would he know about how Jews were treated in Iran?   Lots of Iranians say they treated Jews so benevolently, but not so with Islam.  And Islam has long been an influence in Iran.   Try asking some actual Iranian Jews; what does your mom say about it?   Often the Iranian Jews have a different story to tell than the prideful Persians with their bragging about tolerance.   Secondly, who cares about this kind of argument?  There's no "popularity contest" about who treated their Jews the best in history and that's who you can trust or can't trust.   How the non-Jews treat the Jews is like the passing wind, good one day but could become bad at any drop of the hat.  And in most places in history it was bad at at least some time or another.   That is why our place is only in Israel, with a Jewish leadership.   

Look deeper into "Iranian" history and you will see that the quite benevolent Persian regime in Bavel became totally oppressive and brutal against Jews in the later centuries leading up to the Islamic invasion after muhammad (after the long period of "tolerance" and goodwill that Jews enjoyed in Bavel for quite a long time).  The talmud details some of the cruel horrible things the Persian regime began to do to persecute Jews.   But like all Diaspora communities, the Bavel Jews should have known better that it wouldn't last forever.  THe goodwill never lasts forever.    (Just as today, the Iranian regime shows its true jihad colors against  Israel while it pays lipservice to the 1/4 of Iranian Jews who still remain after the Islamic revolution and whom the Iranian regime kindly "tolerates" by not wiping them out - how generous of them)
 
But anyone who is willing to show goodwill toward us NOW, why shouldn't we accept it?   That is just silly.   The Iranian mullahs are building nukes and arming hezbollah to launch rockets at our cities as they have already done, and I'm supposed to feel nostalgic about the "past" tolerance of Iran rather than accept the CURRENT evangelical support for Israel?   That is insanity.

I'm sorry I mistyped I meant my mom. The Jews were treated worse In Europe. This is not even a matter of debate. The Holocaust alone put the Jews through more torment than all of Iranian history. I despise the Muslims anyway, so it doesn't make much difference for me.

It is easy to compare something to the shoah and then say 'so and so' treated better.  ANYTHING is better compared to the shoah.   But you can't take one small window in Iranian history and pretend that that is everything from start to finish.   Furthermore, 3/4 of the Jewish population left Iran following the Islamic revolution.   They left for a reason, and they weren't stupid.   But like I said, this argument is silly.   Please comment on my pertinent point which is, what does Iranian tolerance have to do with anything, and why should it matter considering they are a direct enemy today.   Even if you think evangelical American Christian support of Israel (and JTF?) is "selfish" because they do it to get into heaven, first of all who cares, so what, and secondly why should that be a reason not to accept it?     Also, please consider that it is not accurate or fair to equate Christian Europe with American Christians.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What does JTF have to do with historic persecution?

JTF is pro-Christian and pro White even though Whites have a history of murdering them.

JTF is not "pro-Christian,"  JTF is pro-Israel.   If anything JTF is 'pro-Judaism' but it's not about missionizing or convincing people of other religions to adopt Judaism so that also is not an accurate term.  JTF is CERTAINLY not advocating Jews to adopt anything but Judaism.

[George]

I beg to differ. The savage extermination campaigns Mohammed (ys"vz) spearheaded against the Arabian Jews of the Quraysh tribes was being treated better than in Europe? The fiendish pogroms that the Iranian Zoroastrians committed hundreds of years before Islam even existed were benevolent? The only reason they weren't able to pull off a Shoah was the fact that the technology did not exist for it at the time. The vicious riots and pogroms that broke out across the Islamic world in 1948, against Jews who had lived there for 2,000 years, were tolerant?

Please read up on some facts.

I agree, they didn't have the capabilities that the Europeans did.

[MarZutra]

Shalom Ralph,  I must reflect with much of what you say.  Much is founded in fact and other is something to be questioned.  Keep thinking and asking questions. 

Your opinion about Christians is largely true as the Christian is a double edged sword in all actuality.  Not according to them as individuals but the ideology itself as to which is why there is 34000 "sects" of Christianity. 

Many Christians are very good people. You are correct that the history re: Jews is stain by a repugnant record.  Many Christians like Pastor John Hagee are very supportive of Israel but still the loom is over the heads of the eventual Jewish mass conversion to Christianity at the end of Christian days....or the second coming.

I have many good Christian friends and there are many Christian supporters of JTF.  They are very good people from a Jewish perspective. 

I think the best position is to keep asking questions, keep delving into independant research and continue to live a good, moral life... 

Two cents from Ol-MarZutra

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

JTF is pro-Christian and pro White even though Whites have a history of murdering them.

As do Arabs, Turks, Africans, Asians, etc.

I can't produce evidence for everything but I believe everyone keeps grudges. All the Armenians I ever spoke with hate Turks, Blacks hate Whites because of slavery, Chinese dislike the Japanese etc.

So because of that, it's okay and good for you to hate at will too, whether or not it is merited?

Non-white Christians were not in a position to harm Jews unlike White Christians so I don't know.

What about the Arab so-called Christians who ruled the Middle East for hundreds of years before Islam and had very anti-Semitic societies?

If she isn't a Christian I don't know who is.

Has she accepted Jesus as the Messiah? Does she attend church? Is she part of a home fellowship group? What are her "fruits of the spirit"--i.e. evidences from her living and lifestyle that she has undergone a conversion of heart?

China and North Korea are evil governments. I doubt the Chinese or Koreans would be remotely as anti-Jewish as Whites.

Some of them are, just like some whites are, but not all. I am pretty sure that, if for no other reason than indoctrination by their regimes, a greater percentage of average Chinese citizens today are anti-Semitic than average American whites.

I don't come on forums to agree with people. That's pretty boring.

Are you trying to say that you like causing trouble?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I agree, they didn't have the capabilities that the Europeans did.

So you are admitting they wanted to have a Shoah?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

but the ideology itself as to which is why there is 34000 "sects" of Christianity.

I disagree here--there may be 34,000 sects, but there is one true church. The actual definition of a Christian is extremely concise and unequivocal: someone who believes that Jesus is G-d (not the offspring of G-d, or a separate deity, as is a common misconception) and the Messiah, and believes and lives out accurately the teachings of both Testaments of the Bible. Many so-called Christians are nominal phonies or warped heretics, but I do not count them. There is one true church, and one definition of Christian, regardless of number of denominations.

but still the loom is over the heads of the eventual Jewish mass conversion to Christianity at the end of Christian days....or the second coming.

I don't know of any true Christians who want to force Jews to convert, period.

[Lisa]

Ralph my parents are Iranian Jews who came to America long before the revolution.  They would agree with you that Jews in Iran had it better for the most part than the Ashkenazi Jews of Europe.  But, it still wasn't perfect.  There were pogroms, and the Mashadi Jews at one point, pretended to convert to Islam to get the moosies off their backs.  

Otherwise, I'm going to disagree with you.  So what if the white Christians are supporting Israel just so they can go to heaven?  In Judaism, we care more about good deeds rather that what might be going through a persons head.  Also, if you, as a Jew don't believe in the Second Coming Of Christ (or however which way the N.T. ends with all the Jews ending up in Israel), what do you care what the Christian Zionists believe?  How do their beliefs impede yours in any way?  Are you in favor of giving up more land to the moosies and creating a terrorist fakestinian hamastinian state?  

I'm sorry but I just don't see the point of all this.  It's like these liberal Jewish organizations getting all hysterical when they discover that Mormons posthumously convert Jews in their temples, and ask them not to do it.  So what?  If Jews are born of Jewish mothers and practice their religion, they know their religion won't suddently change in the next world based on what someone else with no relation to them says or does.  

Finally, if you're against JTF working with Christians, then what's the point of posting here?  And if you think all white Christians are bad, then why even live in America?  Why not move to Israel, China, or some other Muslim country?  

[George]

It is easy to compare something to the shoah and then say 'so and so' treated better.  ANYTHING is better compared to the shoah.   But you can't take one small window in Iranian history and pretend that that is everything from start to finish.   Furthermore, 3/4 of the Jewish population left Iran following the Islamic revolution.   They left for a reason, and they weren't stupid.   But like I said, this argument is silly.   Please comment on my pertinent point which is, what does Iranian tolerance have to do with anything, and why should it matter considering they are a direct enemy today.   Even if you think evangelical American Christian support of Israel (and JTF?) is "selfish" because they do it to get into heaven, first of all who cares, so what, and secondly why should that be a reason not to accept it?     Also, please consider that it is not accurate or fair to equate Christian Europe with American Christians.

I mentioned Iran to show that as evil as the Iranians are the White Christians were worse. I think it's extremely disrespectful and arrogant that these creatures think they will go to heaven at the expense of Jews burning in hell forever. This is bordering Islamic evil. I equate Christian Europe with American Christians because they are the same people. First they try to commit a genocide against Jews, then when they fail to do that, they say Jews will go to hell forever, just support Israel so we can go to heaven. There are Christians who don't think like this. There aren't absolutes in almost anything but they are mostly evil. I guarantee you the Jews are headed for a conflict with these people.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I disagree here--there may be 34,000 sects, but there is one true church.

 Yea, but everyone will say that they are the true church, etc. for example the Catholics will say that they have the true church, the protestents will say no, the catholic church is whatever, and they are the true Christians, etc. With this anytime someone doesn"t agree with you and the other party identifies themselves as "Christian" would then be called a "so-called Christian" just becuase you (by you I dont necessary mean you personally, although you also do it a lot) disagree with them, or they show to be bad people.