I LOVE Chaim's answer on G. W. Bush

[Lubab]

He gives him an "F" on all counts as do I.

He mentioned the Iraq war and his immigration policy. I would add that he presided over the greatest wealth redistribution (from the poor to the rich!) in American history.

This is not a conservative but Marxist fascist of the worst kind.

Would he have been a Democrat it wouldn't be as bad, but as a Republican he nearly broke the back of any genuine conservative movement in this county as all conservatives seemed convinced that they needed to support Bush's marxist policies and call it conservatism.

I have not been around to see many presidents. But he was certainly the worst in my lifetime. It would be a miracle if we can recover from the damage he has done to conservatism and to the country at large.

The only bright spot was his judicial appointments.

[muman613]

Shalom Lubab,

I'll beg to differ in opinion with you on this. Carter was, and always will be, THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER. That being said, I did very well under president Bush. My profession, my posessions, my wealth, my happiness all increased during the last eight years. It was Hashems blessing on me and my family and I am grateful.

I am wondering why you are calling Bush Marxist, that is very odd...

muman613

[Lubab]

I am wondering why you are calling Bush Marxist, that is very odd...

muman613

What part of "greatest wealth redistribution" in American history don't you understand? And do you know where all that taxpayer money went? Nope! Nobody does. Classic Marxist cronyism. Stealing from the American public in broad daylight and consolidating power in the few.
Before Bush there actually was a middle class in this country. That's gone now. Now nearly everyone's either rich or in debt.

I'm glad you did well. I don't have any complaints about my personal life either, but I try to look at the big picture sometimes. You should too.

Carter doesn't hold a candle to Bush. Cater gave us Reagan because he destroyed liberalism. Bush destroyed conservatism leaving everyone nowhere to go but to Barack Hussein.

[muman613]

I am wondering why you are calling Bush Marxist, that is very odd...

muman613

What part of "greatest wealth redistribution" in American history don't you understand? And do you know where all that taxpayer money went? Nope! Nobody does. Classic Marxist cronyism. Stealing from the American public in broad daylight and consolidating power in the few.
Before Bush there actually was a middle class in this country. That's gone now. Now nearly everyone's either rich or in debt.

I'm glad you did well. I don't have any complaints about my personal life either, but I try to look at the big picture sometimes. You should too.

Carter doesn't hold a candle to Bush. Cater gave us Reagan because he destroyed liberalism. Bush destroyed conservatism leaving everyone nowhere to go but to Barack Hussein.

I am looking at the big picture and I don't see poverty around me like I saw in the 70s. I dont see an oil crisis with long gas lines and rationing. I dont have to ration my heat or electricity like we did in the 70s. I dont know what memories you have of Carter, but mine make this decade seem like paradise. Almost everyone I know has multiple flat-screen tv and hdtv sets. Most have at least 2 computers and 2 cars.

The 2000s are so much better in a quality of life way. I dont know where you are looking from, but where I live there is much hope. Money doesn't disappear, it never has. I see you are suggesting that the administration somehow got all the 'missing' money. I don't know where you draw this conclusion.

I also don't know about your concluding statement that Bush destroyed conservatism... As you and other 'real' conservatives know, Bush was never a real conservative. He would not control spending like a true fiscal conservative. I agree with you about that. But I dont think that destroyed conservatism.



muman613

PS: And I am not a BUSH lover... I never voted for the man... I voted for Gore in 2000, and Kerry in 2004...

[briann]

He gives him an "F" on all counts as do I.

He mentioned the Iraq war and his immigration policy. I would add that he presided over the greatest wealth redistribution (from the poor to the rich!) in American history.

This is not a conservative but Marxist fascist of the worst kind.

Would he have been a Democrat it wouldn't be as bad, but as a Republican he nearly broke the back of any genuine conservative movement in this county as all conservatives seemed convinced that they needed to support Bush's marxist policies and call it conservatism.

I have not been around to see many presidents. But he was certainly the worst in my lifetime. It would be a miracle if we can recover from the damage he has done to conservatism and to the country at large.

The only bright spot was his judicial appointments.

We'd all give him an 'F'... but...

Your Wealth Redistribution theory is NONSENCE.   Why is it that every poor person I know is leeching off the government NOW... like never before.   Look around... I dont see poor people paying high taxes to subsidize rich people... I see it the other way around.

Also... the worst president in recent times is Carter.  I'd take Bush's overspending to Carter's stagflation stupidity any day.

Brian

[Lubab]

He gives him an "F" on all counts as do I.

He mentioned the Iraq war and his immigration policy. I would add that he presided over the greatest wealth redistribution (from the poor to the rich!) in American history.

This is not a conservative but Marxist fascist of the worst kind.

Would he have been a Democrat it wouldn't be as bad, but as a Republican he nearly broke the back of any genuine conservative movement in this county as all conservatives seemed convinced that they needed to support Bush's marxist policies and call it conservatism.

I have not been around to see many presidents. But he was certainly the worst in my lifetime. It would be a miracle if we can recover from the damage he has done to conservatism and to the country at large.

The only bright spot was his judicial appointments.

We'd all give him an 'F'... but...

Your Wealth Redistribution theory is NONSENCE.   Why is it that every poor person I know is leeching off the government NOW... like never before.   Look around... I dont see poor people paying high taxes to subsidize rich people... I see it the other way around.

Also... the worst president in recent times is Carter.  I'd take Bush's overspending to Carter's stagflation stupidity any day.

Brian

Brian,

What you are witnessing is Marxism. It aims to have everyone either be part of the elite or dependent on the government and the middle class does not exist. But do remember that the 700 billion dollar (actually 5 trillion if you include the money printed!) "banker welfare" DWARFS the money the goverment pays out in those programs you are referring to. I also used to think that welfare was the problem. They didn't take the money from the poor who produce little to nothing. They took the wealth from the middle class gave it to the ultra-rich, to consolidate power just as a good Marxist does. All the while the lower "welfare" class is growing setting up a two class system: a feudal system.

It's the usual suspects coming out with their usual bag of tricks. Show me ANYTHING Jimmy Carter did that came close to the economic disaster Bush created with the Iraq war and this bailout. You cannot. But you will continue to believe Carter was as worse president than Bush  because you are blinded by the "R" by Bush's name.

Phoney conservatives ALWAYS do more damage than open liberals here and in Israel. Open liberals are weak as their policies are strongly opposed by the right. Bush was supported by the right as he shoved Marxism down our throats laaving NOBODY to oppose his policies. It doesn't get much worse than that.

 

[muman613]

Lubab,

What do you mean Marxism? Here where I live we have free-market Capitalism. How does the government control what happens at my company? How does it have control over what every corporation does? It seems here in this country it works the other way around. It seems in some cases the companies themselves have too much power in Washington.

I still am having difficulty understanding how you call this marxism.

Let us first work on defining Marxism:

From http://www.fsmitha.com/defini.html
Marxism: The most fundamental element in Marxist thought is class struggle, with the "working class," those who sell their labor, triumphing over employers.  Marxists making analysis have been expected to make class analysis.

Marxism: is a social theory aimed at elucidating causal structures for social change. Classical Marxism, derived from the writings of Marx and Engels, concern the essential nature of class relations. Contemporary or analytical Marxism is an investigation into multiple class variables such as economic capital, educational capital, social capital, and cultural capital. Analytical Marxism is an approach used to study class exploitation and domination.

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=marxism
Marxism: (the economic and political theories of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels that hold that human actions and institutions are economically determined and that class struggle is needed to create historical change and that capitalism will ultimately be superseded by communism)

Marxism: Marxism is a term used to refer to a hugely diverse set of social, economic, historical, philosophical and cultural theories, only some of them derived from the thought of German philosopher Karl Marx. Broadly speaking, marxist theories focus upon the inequalities of wealth which the capitalist economic system brings, and point to the effects of this exploitative system upon people and cultures. The Marxist analysis of this situation and its products is ultimately designed to bring about its replacement with a fairer, socialist system.

I dont see how Bushs policies bring about communism nor do I see any sign that government is impeding the free market economy, if anything the government is giving business free reign in many areas. The way I see it is that competition from other countries as a result of the globalization of markets has had some adverse effects. But for the most part I support a global economy.

Maybe I am missing something in your definition...

muman613

[Lubab]

Lubab,

What do you mean Marxism? Here where I live we have free-market Capitalism. How does the government control what happens at my company? How does it have control over what every corporation does? It seems here in this country it works the other way around. It seems in some cases the companies themselves have too much power in Washington.

I still am having difficulty understanding how you call this marxism.

Let us first work on defining Marxism:

From http://www.fsmitha.com/defini.html
Marxism: The most fundamental element in Marxist thought is class struggle, with the "working class," those who sell their labor, triumphing over employers.  Marxists making analysis have been expected to make class analysis.

Marxism: is a social theory aimed at elucidating causal structures for social change. Classical Marxism, derived from the writings of Marx and Engels, concern the essential nature of class relations. Contemporary or analytical Marxism is an investigation into multiple class variables such as economic capital, educational capital, social capital, and cultural capital. Analytical Marxism is an approach used to study class exploitation and domination.

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=marxism
Marxism: (the economic and political theories of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels that hold that human actions and institutions are economically determined and that class struggle is needed to create historical change and that capitalism will ultimately be superseded by communism)

Marxism: Marxism is a term used to refer to a hugely diverse set of social, economic, historical, philosophical and cultural theories, only some of them derived from the thought of German philosopher Karl Marx. Broadly speaking, marxist theories focus upon the inequalities of wealth which the capitalist economic system brings, and point to the effects of this exploitative system upon people and cultures. The Marxist analysis of this situation and its products is ultimately designed to bring about its replacement with a fairer, socialist system.

I dont see how Bushs policies bring about communism nor do I see any sign that government is impeding the free market economy, if anything the government is giving business free reign in many areas.

Maybe I am missing something in your definition...

muman613

The reason you do not understand is because you are not listening to what I am saying.

The governement/major banks controls your company more than you know. The major banks which have fused with the governement in the form of the federal reserve provide all the liquidity that makes your company run. They set innumerable regulations on they way your office is structured, how much you get paid, the taxes they must pay, what sort of benefits you must receive,  and the list goes on and on.

We do still have many captitilstic elements, thank G-d. But when a few people can decide that 5 trillion will go out of our pockets and into the hands of billionare bankers against the will of 80% of the population and nobody even knows how the money is being used, you are in many ways living in a Marxist dictatorship where wealth is redistributed at will without the people having any say in the matter.

And as I explained above this government wealth redistribution has all but decimated the middle class in this country. 

Under the current tax scheme it is extremely difficult to be middle class anymore. Most people are forced to rely on governement programs or  go into debt because the cost of living has risen so.

Muman. I know you already and I know your mind is not open. I could explain something to you twenty times and you'd come back the next day and say the same stuff like it never happened. So the gig is up. I see what you do here.

[muman613]

Lubab,

I respect your opinion and your right to say what you believe. And I am not trying to make any problems for you, but honestly I don't see it. I will leave this thread and allow others to respond. And I am puzzled by what you mean 'the gig is up'. Do you think I am playing a game with you? This is certainly not the case.

muman613

[RanterMaximus]

I posted the question to Chaim and I loved the answer.  If more conservatives has called Bush out, Obama possibly would not be our next president.

[Ben Yehuda]

Shalom Lubab; welcome back.

[q_q_]

<snip>
We do still have many captitilstic elements, thank G-d. But when a few people can decide that 5 trillion will go out of our pockets and into the hands of billionare bankers against the will of 80% of the population and nobody even knows how the money is being used, you are in many ways living in a Marxist dictatorship where wealth is redistributed at will without the people having any say in the matter.

are you referring to the govt bailout following the banks getting messed up?

that may have happened under any president.

pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps is a nice idea but it doesn't always work.

i'm not a finance person. though...

And as I explained above this government wealth redistribution has all but decimated the middle class in this country. 

Under the current tax scheme it is extremely difficult to be middle class anymore. Most people are forced to rely on governement programs or  go into debt because the cost of living has risen so.

<snip>

how are things -so- different to previous administrations?

you' had income tax under previous ones and it involves massive wealth distribution.  So it's very much a scale, already far too near to the marxism end for your liking. 

ps: you acted wisely!

[SavetheWest]

Bush gets a C- in my opinion.  His best attribute is how much he ticked off the left.  They hated him so much that, that alone made me kind of like him. 

He was a total disaster in letting the housing crisis get out of hand (but many people, especially Leftist senators are more to blame)
Immigration he gets an F
Starting a war that undermined people's trust in government and the CIA was one of the biggest disasters of all time.
Getting the war under control and getting Iraq to a point where they could almost open a 24 hour fitness in Baghdad is pretty impressive
Getting a Supreme Court that protected 2nd amendment rights was one of the greatest things ever.
He has killed tons of Muzzies when they swarmed into Iraq to fight the Jihad.  A++++
The economy did do well up until now. 
He totally failed on government spending and ruining conservatism
He failed on Israel trying to appease Abbas
SAT scores did improve under his presidency and the DOW hit a record too
He really failed with letting in Iraqi "refugees" and giving endless money to Bono's pet projects

[RanterMaximus]

Sorry, Bush gets a big fat F!  He got America into a unnecessary war, made us as oil dependant as ever, did nothing about our countires immigration nightmare and was willing to sign a bill to give them amnesty almost two years ago, he was willing to hand over American ports to the UAE, and his lack of leadership allowed Pelosi and her thugs to regain congressional control and, to top it off, he helped paved the way for Obama.

[muman613]

Sorry, Bush gets a big fat F!  He got America into a unnecessary war, made us as oil dependant as ever, did nothing about our countires immigration nightmare and was willing to sign a bill to give them amnesty almost two years ago, he was willing to hand over American ports to the UAE, and his lack of leadership allowed Pelosi and her thugs to regain congressional control and, to top it off, he helped paved the way for Obama.

I dont agree that it was an unnecessary war... At the time all intelligence agencies were concerned about Iraqs WMD. And there is evidence that WMD was actually discovered. I think the war was not 'sold' to the people as it should have been. But in retrospect it was an excellent thing to remove Saddam Hussein from power, both for America and for Israel.

muman613

[briann]

He gives him an "F" on all counts as do I.

He mentioned the Iraq war and his immigration policy. I would add that he presided over the greatest wealth redistribution (from the poor to the rich!) in American history.

This is not a conservative but Marxist fascist of the worst kind.

Would he have been a Democrat it wouldn't be as bad, but as a Republican he nearly broke the back of any genuine conservative movement in this county as all conservatives seemed convinced that they needed to support Bush's marxist policies and call it conservatism.

I have not been around to see many presidents. But he was certainly the worst in my lifetime. It would be a miracle if we can recover from the damage he has done to conservatism and to the country at large.

The only bright spot was his judicial appointments.

We'd all give him an 'F'... but...

Your Wealth Redistribution theory is NONSENCE.   Why is it that every poor person I know is leeching off the government NOW... like never before.   Look around... I dont see poor people paying high taxes to subsidize rich people... I see it the other way around.

Also... the worst president in recent times is Carter.  I'd take Bush's overspending to Carter's stagflation stupidity any day.

Brian

Brian,

What you are witnessing is Marxism. It aims to have everyone either be part of the elite or dependent on the government and the middle class does not exist. But do remember that the 700 billion dollar (actually 5 trillion if you include the money printed!) "banker welfare" DWARFS the money the goverment pays out in those programs you are referring to. I also used to think that welfare was the problem. They didn't take the money from the poor who produce little to nothing. They took the wealth from the middle class gave it to the ultra-rich, to consolidate power just as a good Marxist does. All the while the lower "welfare" class is growing setting up a two class system: a feudal system.

It's the usual suspects coming out with their usual bag of tricks. Show me ANYTHING Jimmy Carter did that came close to the economic disaster Bush created with the Iraq war and this bailout. You cannot. But you will continue to believe Carter was as worse president than Bush  because you are blinded by the "R" by Bush's name.

Phoney conservatives ALWAYS do more damage than open liberals here and in Israel. Open liberals are weak as their policies are strongly opposed by the right. Bush was supported by the right as he shoved Marxism down our throats laaving NOBODY to oppose his policies. It doesn't get much worse than that.

 

Firstly...   you are all over the place.   Your initial argument was that Bush's tenure has caused wealthy people to take from poor people... and then you switch it to middle class.   

Secondly..  you need to take a history class.  What Carter did was 1000x closer to communism than what Bush did.

1)  Taxes were FAR higher in the Carter Admin.
2)  Carter caused the highest inflation in our country's history (Excluding wartime).
3)  This in turn caused double digit interest rates
4)  Carter had MUCH higher unemployment than bush
5)  Carter' presidency had NO growth (When adjusted for inflation).  His whole presidency was one big recession.
6)  instated price controls on gas... causing gas lines.

LIFE SUCKED under Carterism.   

[SavetheWest]

Sorry, Bush gets a big fat F!  He got America into a unnecessary war, made us as oil dependant as ever, did nothing about our countires immigration nightmare and was willing to sign a bill to give them amnesty almost two years ago, he was willing to hand over American ports to the UAE, and his lack of leadership allowed Pelosi and her thugs to regain congressional control and, to top it off, he helped paved the way for Obama.

I agree with that but if we had Kerry in power he would have handed Al Qaeda the biggest victory ever, would have pressured Israel into complete submission, and the economy would be worse off than it is.  Also, we would have lost the right to bear arms forever.

[RanterMaximus]

In the game of politics, we all lose.  We have no leaders or prominence who are truly patriotic and care about the good of the people.  Bush, Kerry, Clinton, McCain, Obama- please.  God be with us all!

[Xoce]

The only bright spot was his judicial appointments.

Agreed

[RanterMaximus]

yes, he did give us good judges.  but it sill pales to the rest of his incompetence.

[Xoce]

Moreover...
His first inclination was to NOT appoint good justices.
It was the fervent action of conservatives that FORCED him to appoint the good ones.
Remember the Harriet fiasco?!

[briann]

Moreover...
His first inclination was to NOT appoint good justices.
It was the fervent action of conservatives that FORCED him to appoint the good ones.
Remember the Harriet fiasco?!

Yes... that was sickening.... I think that pushed me over the edge with W.   (I was already teetering there anyway)

[RanterMaximus]

In the end, as we all look back on Bush, we must never forget he was never a conservative.  It's a shame that the media debases that word when they refer to him.

[muman613]

In the end, as we all look back on Bush, we must never forget he was never a conservative.  It's a shame that the media debases that word when they refer to him.

Heck, I voted for Gore in 2000...

muman613

[RanterMaximus]

muman613, you are only human.  In my younger days I voted for Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan.  At least you had the good sense to vote for Reagan!