How can a Kahanist viewpoint be used to counter critique of Israel and America?

[sat_chit_anand]

...

Let us examine the American plans carefully. Recently we've got a sneak preview of their campaign. The US plans to destroy Iraq, invade Syria, break Saudi Arabia into a few parts, separate the oil fields, pass them in the hands of Israel, and finish off with Egypt. The news was broken gently by a Jewish Lobby man, Laurent Murawiec, who works under aegis of the Defence Policy Board Chairman Richard N. Perle. This hawk, a friend of Sharon, a devoted Zionist and a suspected Israeli mole, calls for seizure of the Arabian oil fields, transfer of Mecca and Medina unto Hashemite rule and confiscation of Saudi assets.

He represents a voice of many American Jews. In the prestigious Jewish World Review, a columnist Jonah Goldberg calls: "Baghdad must be destroyed. America should go to war with Iraq even if that risks innocent Iraqi - and American - lives". Professor David D. Perlmutter in LA Times[ii] is even more explicit: "I daydream - if only! If in 1948, 1956, 1967 or 1973 Israel had acted just a bit like the Third Reich, then today Jews, not sheiks, would have that Gulf oil'. Endless abbreviations, think tanks, institutes connected to the powerful Jewish community in the US are interwoven into a dense spider-net around Pentagon and the White House. And they are the moving force behind the new Drang nach Osten of President Bush.

Jews pushing for Armageddon

Let us face the unpleasant reality: the Jewish elites of the US are pushing for the Armageddon, or in your Norse tradition, for Ragnarok, the Doomsday war, in order to establish the Jewish state at the top of the world. It is a plan of megalomaniac, but these megalomaniacs are in control of the only superpower, as well as of their nuclear-powered Middle-Eastern bridgehead.

"Oh no, you say. We know Jews, a wonderful clever peaceful and pleasant folk. It should be some mistake". Let me remind you a short story by the American writer and poet of 19th century, Edgar Allan Poe about Germany of his days. He depicts Germans as placid and peaceful folk, much given to growing cabbage, playing piano, constructing clocks, smoking pipe and talking philosophy. It is exactly the picture of Germans presented by Mark Twain in his travelogues.

This image apparently corresponded to reality, and a German officer was a witness at my grandparents' wedding in the days of German occupation of Minsk in 1916. Some 25 years later, my grandparents decided to flee the advancing German army, while their Jewish neighbours laughed at them: "you fell for the Bolshevik propaganda, there is no reason to run away, the Germans are wonderful peaceful folk and the best friends of Jews". Still, my grandparents took flight and were saved from the cruel einsatzcommando, from the Germans who did not care much about pipes and cabbage.

People can change, and if peaceful Germans could become for a while a walking horror of the world, so can Jews. I do sincerely hope that as the Germans came back to their normal selves, so will the Jews, but I do not think it will happen by itself. There is an infection and it is spreading fast. It is caused by the inherent racism of the Jewish state. On my way to Ben Gurion airport, I bought Haaretz, our main liberal newspaper. It contained a dispute between our chief of staff, Buki Ayalon and our previous Labour Prime Minister, Ehud Barak. Ayalon compared the Palestinians with cancer growth, while the vice-chairman of Socialist International, Barak completely disagreed: they are rather a virus, he said.

This racism spread over the Jewish communities like a forest fire. Provided the Jews are the prominent part of the American and to lesser degree European elites, they communicate the disease to the rest. Their newspapers and their film studios preach racism, hatred to Muslims, Germans, French and to everybody else, including the ordinary white working folk and the blacks of the United States.

In your Norse tradition, an evil cunning Loki cheated the gentle but blind Hod and caused him to kill his brother, shining Balder, this Nordic pre-figuration of Christ. Now, Loki again tries to cause the war between the brothers. It is our duty and our right to refuse Loki's advices and to stop the Ragnarok.

Solution for Palestine

It can't be done without attending to Palestine. For years, I would say: Palestine/Israel must be transformed into a democratic state, where Jews and Palestinians will live happily ever after, as equals. But the Democratic State wouldn't be a Jewish state, people would object. That is the best part of it, I would say. The Jewish state is as bad as the Aryan state, and whoever rejects the Aryan state, should reject the Jewish state, as well. Without the Jewish state, the Jews of the US and other lands will return to their normal life, will forget the wet dreams of the world domination and become law-abiding citizens of their respective countries.

Until now, only our wonderful comrades, friends of Palestine, had supported this idea. But now it becomes necessary - not only for the sake of the Palestinians, these noble courageous and hard-working people, but for the sake of all of us, for the sake of the world peace. There are Israelis who would like to live in peace with their Palestinian neighbours, in peace with churches and mosques, but we can not counteract the external forces supporting Sharon the Evil and Peres the Cunning. Good Israelis and their Palestinian allies can't win, unless their adversary's supply lines are cut, as in the Thor story.

The tale hath it, Thor the Mighty came to Utgard to boast his prowess. The gods of Utgard challenged him to drink up the Golden horn. He drunk and drunk, but the horn had remained forever full. It was no miracle: the horn was connected to the sea. Only by severing the umbilical tie, he could meet the challenge and drink up the horn. If you, people of Europe, would block the sea of external support, we, Israelis and Palestinians, will be able to change the things on the ground and bring equality to Palestine and Israel.

The deconstruction of the Jewish state, its conversion into a state for all its citizens would become an important cardinal point in human development. Instead of being the pilot project of globalization, the Holy Land can become an ideal of integration. The invaders and the local folk will merge, as your ancestors the Normans did in East Anglia, Sicily and Normandy, as the children of Provencal Crusaders became Palestinians in the hilly villages of Sinjil and Gifna, while the Jews overseas will become again the blessing of their communities, like my sainted ancestor in your marvellous cathedral city.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/shamir_sunnydays.htm

Kahanism does not represent the what Shamir is disapproving of. If it did, there would be a Kahanist government in Israel.

So how do we defend Israel, the Jewish people and the Kahanist viewpoint against accusations like the above?

[MassuhDGoodName]

sat_chit_anand,

The essay to which you link, attributed to one speech made in Trondheim, Norway, by the infamous (if at all even existant) "Israel Shamir", is completely insane, and the webpage on which it is found appears to be a hacked web-forgery of the types often seen on rense.com or other "lunatic fringe" web sites.

If indeed the BNP is promoting such nonsense as sound political rhetoric, then I can only conclude that the party and movement is doomed from the onset by virtue of its being completely psychotic and indistinguishable from Aryan-Nations/Odin cults.

Again, I greatly suspect the web page has been hacked.

Bear in mind, that the Socialist Unions in Norway are given time off to stage official (world disarmament) demonstrations praising one Mordechai Vanunu; arguably the most mentally ill psychotic Israeli in history; not to mention a TRAITOR to his people, faith, and homeland.

Please clarify your own position(s) regarding what I have inferred above.

[sat_chit_anand]

The article is dated and (I think) should be removed from the BNP website.

Until quite recently Shamir's books were available from the BNP merchandising department. I find that distasteful, but there have been a lot of changes since that article was put into the website and since his books were being sold.

The article does look like a lunatic fringe concoction of some sort, but the party membership does include a number of Odinists who would find that article interesting. Political parties do have to satisfy their members, and the 'extremists' were the first to jump aboard.

Something which has changed the BNP has been the addition of Rev. Robert West into the fold:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=927

There are a large number of Christians in the party. The party has been growing and changing. The Chairman, the website, the 'editorial style' all change their approach to suit the membership, and party has a democratic-meritocratic structure which allows the party to evolve.

This is more representative of current opinion:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/columnists/chairman2.php?ngId=30

[Trumpeldor]

The key to winning debates is finding flaws in the logical structure of their argument. You do not need to squabble about details or facts. Attack their premises and do not yield an inch. If you are asked a slanted question, do not answer it until you've poked enough holes in the assumptions of the questions.

A lot of this takes practice. The bottom line is that you do not cede any premises or assumptions. If you do, you may win the battle but you will have lost the war.

[Din Rodef]

Tell 'em "Nile to Euphrates"

That's what I do and it works every time.... give 'em what they want to hear.

[Din Rodef]

Oh the Irony

From my understanding - the BNP is filled with Brits who are tired of 3rd world immigration and want non-whites deported. Yet, they want to make Israel an international nation for all to emigrate.

How can England be for the English...if Israel isn't for the Jews? Don't they understand this contradiction in their thinking? They are totally insane

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...So how do we defend Israel, the Jewish people and the Kahanist viewpoint against accusations like the above?..."

First and foremost, the accusations in that article are about 1% truth; the rest lies.

Having said that, I do not believe that it is possible to overcome the professional industry known colloquially in the West as "anti-Semitism" through debate and the use of logic and reason.

The reasons I state this are as follows:

-Demented and psychotic gang leaders learned centuries ago that one can earn a great deal of money, and surround oneself with a large social circle of followers and hangers-on, and financial contributors, simply by composing, publishing, and then selling, literature which blames the Jews for every past, present, and future crime, injustice, and evil in the world.
-The most sophisticated of such literature consists of about 1% truth, twisted with illogic and untruths into a Big Lie, which is seemingly plausible to those of limited education and intelligence.
-The vast majority of such propaganda, however, is more or less psychotic conjurings and demonic conspiracies concocted out of thin air... the Big Lie from the get-go; which is repeated and repeated and repeated, over and over, louder and louder; until the masses begin to repeat it to themselves!
-The leaders of the Jew-hating profession are sociopathic individuals of the same ilk as modern politicians, who possess a character flaw enabling them to speak a lie, and then be the first to believe it as indisputable truth.
-The members of each and every "Jew-hating" gang, lack any ability to discern truth from fiction, to know fact from falsehood, to distinguish reality from surrealism, and most importantly; each and every one is suffering from a sense of "injustice", "disenfranchisement", "unfair circumstances which have limited their lot in life", etc... .
-This results in their combining their psychological need both to seek out "THE UNSEEN EVIL" which is causing their lowly station in life, to absolve themselves of all personal responsibility for their lack of self-esteem and inability to better their socio-economic situation, and end their alienation and anomie through self-dissolution into a group-think mass of like-minded others.

As the old adage states...

"People believe what they want to believe...not the truth".

[Maccabi]

good description MassuhDGoodName

[sat_chit_anand]

Oh the Irony

From my understanding - the BNP is filled with Brits who are tired of 3rd world immigration and want non-whites deported. Yet, they want to make Israel an international nation for all to emigrate.

How can England be for the English...if Israel isn't for the Jews? Don't they understand this contradiction in their thinking? They are totally insane

I am a BNP member and pro-Zionist. The article is not representative of the BNP. I have to wonder why it is there. Perhaps it is just academic.

I think that Shamir is a self-hater who became an Orthodox Christian. He obviously has issues.

There is a residual anti-Semitism/Zionism within European nationalism. It is quite clear to me that there will be no positive changes for Europe until this has ended, and in fact, it is necessary for this to end if we are to defeat the left. The process of change has, thankfully, already begun.

One of the best ways to counter anti-Semitism is to explain that there is political diversity amongst Jewish people.


Jabo, I agree, and that is what I do. I am practicing and learning.

[Din Rodef]

I am a BNP member and pro-Zionist. The article is not representative of the BNP. I have to wonder why it is there. Perhaps it is just academic.

I think that Shamir is a self-hater who became an Orthodox Christian. He obviously has issues.

There is a residual anti-Semitism/Zionism within European nationalism. It is quite clear to me that there will be no positive changes for Europe until this has ended, and in fact, it is necessary for this to end if we are to defeat the left. The process of change has, thankfully, already begun.

One of the best ways to counter anti-Semitism is to explain that there is political diversity amongst Jewish people.


Jabo, I agree, and that is what I do. I am practicing and learning.

Thanks for the post

You're a BNP member? Is your pro-zionist viewpoint popular within the party? Are most BNP members pro-Israel?

I think you're right about anti-semitism being tied to European nationalism. That is one of many reasons that Jews need to emigrate to Israel and get out of Europe.  It is perfectly reasonable for a nation to despise the presence of a minority group that refuses to assimilate.

[Lisa]

I think you're right about anti-semitism being tied to European nationalism. That is one of many reasons that Jews need to emigrate to Israel and get out of Europe.  It is perfectly reasonable for a nation to despise the presence of a minority group that refuses to assimilate.

How is it then, Din Rodef, that the Europeans hate the Jews more than the Muslims in their midst?  If anything, the Muslims are the ones refusing to assimilate in European culture, for which they have contempt.  In fact, many of them view themselves, not as Brits or as French citizens, but as Muslims living in Britain/France.  And 40% of the British Muslims support the implementation of Sharia law in that country. 

Most Jews, on the other hand, just go about their daily lives. 

[sat_chit_anand]

Thanks for the post

You're a BNP member? Is your pro-zionist viewpoint popular within the party? Are most BNP members pro-Israel?

I think you're right about anti-semitism being tied to European nationalism. That is one of many reasons that Jews need to emigrate to Israel and get out of Europe.  It is perfectly reasonable for a nation to despise the presence of a minority group that refuses to assimilate.

The pro-Zionist viewpoint is becoming popular within the party. I would say that most BNP members are Israel-neutral. For me the battlelines have been drawn very clearly. Left = Muslim Nazi and everyone else can take their place.  

There are many British Jews who fit into British society. There is such a thing as a British Jew. You guys may not agree with this, but there are British Jews who are at least as British as I am, who may serve in the Armed Forces, who may take a British spouse. They may be secular, they may even bring their children up as Christians, but they remain somewhat Jewish and this can express itself in a number of ways and as long as they are not leftists, I am happy about that. I grew up amongst British Jews.

What is new is the anti-Semitism which has come from the middle-class left and leftist Jews. I am not joking!

Left-wing Jews have now set up an alternative body to represent British Jewry:

The "Independent Jewish Voices"...

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1458

This is what is really happening in Britain.

Lisa, British people are fed up to the back teeth with 'Pakis', it is just that the left-wing media never expresses this.

[Din Rodef]

Thanks for posting..That's very interesting because most of the BNP members I've encountered online have been at StørmFrønt.com

I'm familiar with Melanie Phillips and "Londonistan"....but thanks very much for recommending.

[Din Rodef]

How is it then, Din Rodef, that the Europeans hate the Jews more than the Muslims in their midst?  If anything, the Muslims are the ones refusing to assimilate in European culture, for which they have contempt.  In fact, many of them view themselves, not as Brits or as French citizens, but as Muslims living in Britain/France.  And 40% of the British Muslims support the implementation of Sharia law in that country. 

Most Jews, on the other hand, just go about their daily lives. 

That's an excellent point.

I've found that many Europeans blame the Jews for the Muslim immigration...HOw is this so? It's because many of the left wing politicians and groups that have supported massive immigration were back by Jews.

It's the same way in America. Secularist and leftist Jews ALWAYS take the side of non-whites. ALWAYS

One Example: BLacks on their own could never have started Affirmative Action etc...But with the help of leftist Jews...this gets accomplished

I Love Israel...and Especially JTF Jews. But, Jews are going to always be viewed with suspicion if they are living outside of Israel. This is one of the reasons it is absolutely imperitive for Jews to emigrate to Israel.

[Lisa]

Din Rodef,

You are right about Jews supporting non-whites over whites, and being for open borders. I think however, that it's mainly a European Jewish thing.   

Just so you know, I'm Jewish, but of Iranian ancestry, and very right wing.  Thus, I'm very much against illegal immigration to the U.S. as well as almost all Third World immigration.  So I often feel like an oddball among other Jews, except for when I'm on this forum.  When I've written about this subject on my blog, and other websites, the response I get from some liberal Jews is that "we were once immigrants," and that Jews were killed in Europe when they were denied entry to the U.S. during WWII. 

As I see it, there is no comparing the legal immigration of white European Christians and Jews of the past to today's Third World invasion of America and Europe. 

But getting back to liberal Jews who support open borders and other nonsense, I agree that they're a bunch of kooks.  Then again, you don't have to be Jewish to be a liberal kook.  There are plenty of ethno-masochist (to borrow an expression from Jared Taylor) white non-Jews, for example, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, John McCain, and Chuck Hagel, among others. 

In terms of Jews belonging in Israel, that's a good point.  On the other hand, even there they are hunted down and killed by Arabs with impunity, thanks to that bolshevik appeasing government. 

[kahaneloyalist]

I think you're right about anti-semitism being tied to European nationalism. That is one of many reasons that Jews need to emigrate to Israel and get out of Europe.  It is perfectly reasonable for a nation to despise the presence of a minority group that refuses to assimilate.

How is it then, Din Rodef, that the Europeans hate the Jews more than the Muslims in their midst?  If anything, the Muslims are the ones refusing to assimilate in European culture, for which they have contempt.  In fact, many of them view themselves, not as Brits or as French citizens, but as Muslims living in Britain/France.  And 40% of the British Muslims support the implementation of Sharia law in that country. 

Most Jews, on the other hand, just go about their daily lives. 

Because Jews are few and not violent Muslims are many and extremely violent, I think the European behavior makes sense now.

How is it then, Din Rodef, that the Europeans hate the Jews more than the Muslims in their midst?  If anything, the Muslims are the ones refusing to assimilate in European culture, for which they have contempt.  In fact, many of them view themselves, not as Brits or as French citizens, but as Muslims living in Britain/France.  And 40% of the British Muslims support the implementation of Sharia law in that country. 

Most Jews, on the other hand, just go about their daily lives. 

That's an excellent point.

I've found that many Europeans blame the Jews for the Muslim immigration...HOw is this so? It's because many of the left wing politicians and groups that have supported massive immigration were back by Jews.

It's the same way in America. Secularist and leftist Jews ALWAYS take the side of non-whites. ALWAYS

One Example: BLacks on their own could never have started Affirmative Action etc...But with the help of leftist Jews...this gets accomplished

I Love Israel...and Especially JTF Jews. But, Jews are going to always be viewed with suspicion if they are living outside of Israel. This is one of the reasons it is absolutely imperitive for Jews to emigrate to Israel.

Thats isnt true, their are anti-Jewish parties in Poland, a country where there are no Jews. Some people will hate Jews no matter what, if they are Capitalists they hate Jews because Jews are Communists. If they are Communists they hate Jews because they are Capitalists. If they are Nationalists they hate Jews for being Internationalists, if they are Internationalists they hate Jews for being Internationalists. Our enemies will always find a excuse to hate us no matter what. Of course all Jews belong in Israel but let us not pretend that it is Jews who somehow deserve hatred.

I remind you of two events, in Germany before WWII the Jews were the best Germans who ever lived they were more Nationalist than the Nationalists and yet they were still hated. And in America Father Coughlin (long may he rot in hell) was a vicious Jew hater and Nazi lover when the Jews of the US were ultra patriotic and they wanted to be Americans first last and only.

[Din Rodef]

kahaneloyalist

My point is that as long as Jews continue to live outside of the land of Israel...they are always going to be strangers in a strange land. They are an alien people within the host nations. They will always be persecuted.

Look....Jews seem to understand the concept of national identity when it comes to Arab muslims living within Israel...But they fail to understand the concept of national identity when there are Jews living in the White Christian nations. Alien minority populations dissolve the identity of a host nation.

The Jews must return to Israel. I think there are a lot of Good Jews in this forum that are arguing with me simply because they don't want to move to Israel.

[Din Rodef]

Din Rodef,

You are right about Jews supporting non-whites over whites, and being for open borders. I think however, that it's mainly a European Jewish thing. 

 

I live in the US and every Jew I've ever known hates white Christians and supports open borders. JTF is the first place I've ever encountered Jews that actually support US national sovereignty and the protection of our European Christian identity.

Just so you know, I'm Jewish, but of Iranian ancestry, and very right wing.  Thus, I'm very much against illegal immigration to the U.S. as well as almost all Third World immigration.  So I often feel like an oddball among other Jews, except for when I'm on this forum.  When I've written about this subject on my blog, and other websites, the response I get from some liberal Jews is that "we were once immigrants," and that Jews were killed in Europe when they were denied entry to the U.S. during WWII. 

Awesome! You're the reason I support JTF...and when you admit to being an "oddball" you are actually reinforcing my previous statements that most Jews support the 3rd world invasion of the West.

As I see it, there is no comparing the legal immigration of white European Christians and Jews of the past to today's Third World invasion of America and Europe. 

But getting back to liberal Jews who support open borders and other nonsense, I agree that they're a bunch of kooks.  Then again, you don't have to be Jewish to be a liberal kook.  There are plenty of ethno-masochist (to borrow an expression from Jared Taylor) white non-Jews, for example, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, John McCain, and Chuck Hagel, among others. 

Here's the problem...Yes America has it's own share of non-Jewish kooks and lunatic lefties...BUT...we can deal with our own lunatics without being slurred as racists. On the contrary, when a white Christian American criticizes a Jew we are branded Nazis. It's getting old...

In terms of Jews belonging in Israel, that's a good point.  On the other hand, even there they are hunted down and killed by Arabs with impunity, thanks to that bolshevik appeasing government. 

IF more good right wingers, like yourself, were to emigrate to Israel then there will be enough Torah Jews to overthrow the satanic bolsheviks