General Category > General Discussion
Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
jsullivan:
--- Quote from: kahaneloyalist on March 09, 2007, 04:30:06 PM ---actually Yaakov, Yekutiel was on the Kach board and Rabbi Kahane's closest aide, why dont you ask Baruch Marzel the next time you are in Israel if that is true, I can attest that others from the Rav's inner circle, who I personally know, like Baruch Ben Yosef, and Yosef Dayan will confirm that Yekutiel is telling the truth regarding his relationship with the Rav. Furthermore Rav Binyamin Zeev chose Yekutiel to be his second.
--- Quote from: thunderbolt on March 09, 2007, 03:46:09 PM ---A lot of the people there are very bigoted towards gentiles. You better not say you're a Christian who supports Israel. Those kahane.org freaks hate Christians just as much as muslims. They think all gentiles are against Jews.
--- End quote ---
Well, Thunder the last two thousand years of persecution may have a tiny part in our view of Goyim. Furthermore, Chaim follows the Meiri regarding who is a righteoud Gentile. The Meiri is the most lenient of all opinons. Most Kahanists follow the Rambam who had a stricter definition of who can be considered a righteous gentile. Consider that the Rav quoted the Rambam many times, and I know of no occasions where he quoted the Meiri.
I leave you with a quote from the Rav, "If you wish to support us do so from afar, for if you missionize we will perform Hereg upon you."
(The form of death mandated to those who try to draw Jews to foreign religions, a form of beheading.)
--- End quote ---
Yekutiel's claim that he was the Rabbi's closest aide is pure fantasy. Yes, ask Baruch Marzel if Yekutiel's claims are true: 1. Was Yekutiel the Rabbi's closest aide?; 2. Did the Rabbi want to fire the Kach board and put Yekutiel in charge?; 3. Was Yekutiel closer to the Rabbi than Marzel, Moshe Neiman, and the others on the board?; 4. When the Rabbi ran for the Knesset in 1984, why wasn't Yekutiel, his "closest aide", on the Knesset list?; 5. When the Rabbi was elected, why did he put Marzel and not Yekutiel on his Knesset staff?; 6. When the Rabbi prepared his Knesset list for the 1988 elections, why was Yekutiel, his "closest aide", not on the list of Knesset candidates? I could go on and on.
kahaneloyalist, with all due respect, there is no machloket (disagreement) among ANY of Chazal (the Talmudic sages) that bnei Noach are righteous Gentiles. All of Chazal agree that Gentiles who follow sheva mitzvot bnei Noach are to be deemed Chassidei Umot HaOlam (the righteous among the nations). Your forum at best tolerates, and at worst even encourages, hatred toward bnei Noach. Would the Rambam approve of that? Would Rabbi Kahane?
kahaneloyalist:
oh yes, that is true everyone agrees that ALL Bnai Noach are righteous, but the debate then becomes who is a Ben Noach. The Meiri includes most Christians in his definition, whereas the Rambam explicitly excludes Islam and Christianity from the Ben Noach definition. Hilchot Melachim and Hilchot Sanhedrin.
I am not sure who told you that Yekutiel wasnt part of the Kach list, but it simply isnt true. And the letter from the Rav in which he says if he is killed Yekutiel is to lead really cant be argued with.
Mishmaat:
James Sullivan, I happen to really like you. But I think this is a waste of time.
The person that called you a "shagitz" is that putz tzioni, yemach shemo vizichro (may his name and memory be obliterated). These are JINO's (Jews In Name Only) who have no respect for anyone. They don't respect righteous Jews, much less bnai Noach (righteous Gentiles). They have done NOTHING to help our cause other than sit on their fat asses spewing the ugliest anti-Kahanist dreck possible. You, Jimmy, are more knowledgeable in Torah concepts than those ignoramuses.
Shabbat shalom.
jsullivan:
--- Quote from: kahaneloyalist on March 09, 2007, 05:23:15 PM ---oh yes, that is true everyone agrees that ALL Bnai Noach are righteous, but the debate then becomes who is a Ben Noach. The Meiri includes most Christians in his definition, whereas the Rambam explicitly excludes Islam and Christianity from the Ben Noach definition. Hilchot Melachim and Hilchot Sanhedrin.
I am not sure who told you that Yekutiel wasnt part of the Kach list, but it simply isnt true. And the letter from the Rav in which he says if he is killed Yekutiel is to lead really cant be argued with.
--- End quote ---
kahaneloyalist, a few points to think about:
1. Yekutiel was never on the Rabbi's Kach Knesset list. I know because I was active in JDL when Chaim was raising money for the Rabbi's Knesset campaign. We showed who the various people on the list were. The members of the Kach board that Yekutiel claims the Rabbi wanted to fire were on the list. Yekutiel was not on the list. No one even knew who Yekutiel was at the time. In 1984 and in 1988, Chaim translated into English what the Rabbi was distributing in Israel so that our American supporters could read it as well. That literature included the Kach Knesset lists.
2. Do you have a copy of the letter in which Yekutiel claims that the Rabbi said that if he is murdered, he wants Yekutiel to lead? Please get us a copy. We want to reprint it on our English and Hebrew forums. In fact, I know that the letter did NOT say anything of the sort. You have been misled, kahaneloyalist. But if you produce the letter, we will be happy to reprint in its entirety.
3. There is indeed a machloket in regard to what constitutes a righteous Gentile. Chaim does NOT claim that most people who today call themselves "Christians" are righteous Gentiles. Most Europeans call themselves "Christians", and the majority of them are anti-Semitic, anti-Israel and anti-American. They clearly are NOT righteous Gentiles. Even most Americans are NOT righteous Gentiles. But there are tens of millions of Bible-believing Christians in the U.S. who genuinely support Israel because of the Biblical commandment to do so. Chaim considers these Bible-believing Gentiles to be righteous, however they are a MINORITY of the American people (about 50 million Americans are Bible-believing Christians out of a total U.S. population of over 300 million - so the real Christians are less than 20% of the American people).
Now there are those who contend that the Christian concept of trinity is idolatry and polytheism, and therefore, Christians cannot be righteous because they are violating the Noahide commandment that forbids idolatry. Chaim believes that even if you accept this premise that Christianity is idolatry, Gentiles can be righteous even if they practice idolatry because Gentiles do not have the benefit of the Torah revelation that the Jews received at Har Sinai. Accordingly, we cannot expect Gentiles to be held to the same monotheistic standard as the Jews. Even if Gentiles mistakenly practice idolatry, as long as they live moral and virtuous lives, and as long as they support Israel and the Jewish people, these Gentiles are righteous and they will receive the ultimate reward of eternal life in the next world. Jews, on the other hand, absolutely must believe in strict monotheism and must follow all of the Torah commandments.
4. Now let's put aside the halachic disagreements above for a moment. I personally do follow the sheva mitzvot bnei Noach, including the prohibition against avodah zara. My guides in life are ONLY the great Rabbinical scholars. And my entire life is dedicated to helping Am Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael. My son is a ger (a convert to Judaism) who lives in Shomron with his Israeli Jewish wife, and my two grandchildren are Jews who are enrolled in yeshiva. Yekutiel's web site tolerates and encourages insults and namecalling even against Gentiles like me. Would Chazal approve of that? Would Rabbi Kahane?
jsullivan:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on March 10, 2007, 08:00:44 PM ---I think it was Mike Krause who called him a shaygitz.
--- End quote ---
No, it was Sabbaba.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version