Evidence That Intelligence Is Largely Inherited

[Nadav]

I think these studies can be very dangerous.  Do we really want to prove things about people based on their genetics?  It makes me uncomfortable and could be used by very evil people to kill many people for many different reasons.  No people are perfect and any group could find some flaw in another people to justify an extermination.  Just my opinion though. 

I second this.

Also, IQ tests aren't really that great. Racists will always ignore the environmental factors that play in IQ tests. Intellectual accomplishments is what matters. I know people who are lions in Torah and Talmudic studies, these are the smart people I look up to. Take the Talmud for instance; if you do a folio a day, I think you can finish the entire Talmud in 7 years. What an achievement! These same people then go on to quote the Talmud left and right, like a mental Rolodex. Such an intellectual achievement should surely be a sign of a smart individual.

[briann]

I think these studies can be very dangerous.  Do we really want to prove things about people based on their genetics?  It makes me uncomfortable and could be used by very evil people to kill many people for many different reasons.  No people are perfect and any group could find some flaw in another people to justify an extermination.  Just my opinion though. 

I second this.

Also, IQ tests aren't really that great. Racists will always ignore the environmental factors that play in IQ tests. Intellectual accomplishments is what matters. I know people who are lions in Torah and Talmudic studies, these are the smart people I look up to. Take the Talmud for instance; if you do a folio a day, I think you can finish the entire Talmud in 7 years. What an achievement! These same people then go on to quote the Talmud left and right, like a mental Rolodex. Such an intellectual achievement should surely be a sign of a smart individual.

I think we'd all agree that there is a HUGE difference between knowledge and intelligence.  Honestly... some of the most knowledgeable people I know have no common sense or reason... but they are great at playing trivial pursuit.

[Daleksfearme]

This study also completely innores the fact that many different types of intelligence exist. Many people that have very little book learning have insights into the world that are truly staggering, while others with a great deal of book learning are without any idea of how the world works.

I would like to see some follow up with epigentics  and if this experiment can be replicated before I get overly excited one way or the other.

Remember, from an evolutionary perspective, Humans are basically just another ape, who has not been overly successful as far as species go. For example there are more bacteria in a single home than humans who have ever lived. Dinosaurs have been around for over 200 million years (keep in mind, only the non avian Dinosaurs died out at the K-T boundary, the other, which we normally think of as birds are doing just fine)

Also, there is so little known about brain structure and function overall that any true understanding of innate intelligence is a very long way off.

[Nadav]

I think these studies can be very dangerous.  Do we really want to prove things about people based on their genetics?  It makes me uncomfortable and could be used by very evil people to kill many people for many different reasons.  No people are perfect and any group could find some flaw in another people to justify an extermination.  Just my opinion though. 

I second this.

Also, IQ tests aren't really that great. Racists will always ignore the environmental factors that play in IQ tests. Intellectual accomplishments is what matters. I know people who are lions in Torah and Talmudic studies, these are the smart people I look up to. Take the Talmud for instance; if you do a folio a day, I think you can finish the entire Talmud in 7 years. What an achievement! These same people then go on to quote the Talmud left and right, like a mental Rolodex. Such an intellectual achievement should surely be a sign of a smart individual.

I think we'd all agree that there is a HUGE difference between knowledge and intelligence.  Honestly... some of the most knowledgeable people I know have no common sense or reason... but they are great at playing trivial pursuit.

Don't know the people you are referring to but like I said; IQ tests are nonsense. How else would we measure intelligence? Intellectual achievement is one.

I remember taking an IQ test, I was asked how do you make a martini. I kid you not. I don't drink, how the hell should I know? I threw that junk out. People have called me a genius for my gift of languages, I know 4, learning a 5th. Yet I could bomb any Math test you give me. Go figure. Humans are far too complex to be figured out by some 30 question test.

[muman613]

This study also completely innores the fact that many different types of intelligence exist. Many people that have very little book learning have insights into the world that are truly staggering, while others with a great deal of book learning are without any idea of how the world works.

I would like to see some follow up with epigentics  and if this experiment can be replicated before I get overly excited one way or the other.

Remember, from an evolutionary perspective, Humans are basically just another ape, who has not been overly successful as far as species go. For example there are more bacteria in a single home than humans who have ever lived. Dinosaurs have been around for over 200 million years (keep in mind, only the non avian Dinosaurs died out at the K-T boundary, the other, which we normally think of as birds are doing just fine)

Also, there is so little known about brain structure and function overall that any true understanding of innate intelligence is a very long way off.

Humans are not just another ape, no matter what they have taught you.. Humanity is an exclusively divine creation and no ape is ever going to be a human.

[Lisa]

I'm a complete mathematical spaz. 

[P J C]

I dont trust ADVANCED science. It interferes with religion.

[Daleksfearme]

This study also completely innores the fact that many different types of intelligence exist. Many people that have very little book learning have insights into the world that are truly staggering, while others with a great deal of book learning are without any idea of how the world works.

I would like to see some follow up with epigentics  and if this experiment can be replicated before I get overly excited one way or the other.

Remember, from an evolutionary perspective, Humans are basically just another ape, who has not been overly successful as far as species go. For example there are more bacteria in a single home than humans who have ever lived. Dinosaurs have been around for over 200 million years (keep in mind, only the non avian Dinosaurs died out at the K-T boundary, the other, which we normally think of as birds are doing just fine)

Also, there is so little known about brain structure and function overall that any true understanding of innate intelligence is a very long way off.

Humans are not just another ape, no matter what they have taught you.. Humanity is an exclusively divine creation and no ape is ever going to be a human.

Except for all of the inconsistencies and bad design of the human. Our prefrontal lobes are too small, our adrenal glands are to large, our retinas are installed backwards and upside down, our lower backs never evolved to walk upright so we have lower back problems, out immune system is on of the worst on the planet etc etc etc

[Dr. Dan]

I'm inclined to agree with much of MikeyChua's post.  However, I also understand where Muman and Savethewest are coming from.  

It's one thing to acknowledge differences between racial groups.  Whether it's genetic or whether it's about people freely choosing to engage in evil behavior, as Chaim believes, the differences are there.  I've met Mikey, he's a religious Jew, and a bright person who's a big fan of JTF.  The only disagreement he has with us is the belief that the evil behavior of Third World groups is due to IQ rather than the conscious desire to do evil.  

So whether it's all about IQ, or simply the free choice to engage in evil behavior, we need to look at the bigger picture.  

Acknowledging the differences is one thing.  However the important thing is what we decide to do with that knowledge.  

Smart people of evil behavior can do a lot of harm.  Smartness does not mean superior..it's how one uses it.  I still maintain that this movment is about righteous and evil behavior and righteous and evil cultures.  Since human beings have free will, they are capable of choosing right from wrong (assuming they aren't ignorant.)

But it's factual that the people of Africa have a lower IQ than the rest of the world, and look at the evil behavior they are engaged in daily?

It doesn't really prove anything really...I can easily say that their culture and imitation of the apes in their region drive them to act the way they do..it's their environment.
Nevertheless, if someone smart or dumb is brought up to be righteous, he/she will be righteous.

[Dr. Dan]

What I'm saying is that these studies can be used and have been used by Nazis.

"There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." -- Thomas Jefferson

There are those who say that religion is dangerous because more people have been killed in its name than any other cause. There are those who say that scientific knowledge is dangerous because it has produced atom bombs. All knowledge is a double-edged sword which is capable of being used for good or evil but seeking knowledge and truth will always be intrinsic to human nature.

Personally I have never chosen to take an IQ test.

When I attended elementary school we had no choice in the matter. We were all required to take it. After the birth of the civil rights movement it was discovered that these tests discriminate against stupid people and they were withdrawn. Now, only the government allows itself to administer g loaded tests to prospective employees even though it has been proven that they are the best predictors for job success.

I had to take a IQ test in highschool, I scored 121.

dummy! 

[briann]

I think these studies can be very dangerous.  Do we really want to prove things about people based on their genetics?  It makes me uncomfortable and could be used by very evil people to kill many people for many different reasons.  No people are perfect and any group could find some flaw in another people to justify an extermination.  Just my opinion though. 

I second this.

Also, IQ tests aren't really that great. Racists will always ignore the environmental factors that play in IQ tests. Intellectual accomplishments is what matters. I know people who are lions in Torah and Talmudic studies, these are the smart people I look up to. Take the Talmud for instance; if you do a folio a day, I think you can finish the entire Talmud in 7 years. What an achievement! These same people then go on to quote the Talmud left and right, like a mental Rolodex. Such an intellectual achievement should surely be a sign of a smart individual.

I think we'd all agree that there is a HUGE difference between knowledge and intelligence.  Honestly... some of the most knowledgeable people I know have no common sense or reason... but they are great at playing trivial pursuit.

Don't know the people you are referring to but like I said; IQ tests are nonsense. How else would we measure intelligence? Intellectual achievement is one.

I remember taking an IQ test, I was asked how do you make a martini. I kid you not. I don't drink, how the hell should I know? I threw that junk out. People have called me a genius for my gift of languages, I know 4, learning a 5th. Yet I could bomb any Math test you give me. Go figure. Humans are far too complex to be figured out by some 30 question test.

Let me guess. an internet IQ test.  The same ones that say the average Laker player has a 130 IQ.   Those tests are nonsence... I think we went over that in detail with a previous post.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

Think of intellect as ammunition.  By itself it is completely worthless.  What is important is in whose hands is that ammunition.

Intelligence by itself is worthless.  It is no guarantee of morality or accomplishment.  What good is an intelligent lazy person?  Or an intelligent drunk?  What good is a Ferrari without gasoline?  I am a teacher and I have seen mountains of intellect go to waste over the years.  

I am an intelligent person, but I would much rather be thought of by my friends and family as a good person.  That is infinitely more important.

Think of the people that inspire you the most.  Do you admire them for their intellect?  I admire Moses, Abraham, Mordechai Anielewicz, Rabbi Kahane, Terry Fox, John Hagee, Tiger Woods, and many others.  Some of these were very smart people, but that is not why I admire them.  Think of the men on your list.  Is their intelligence the reason for your admiration?

[White Israelite]

I think these studies can be very dangerous.  Do we really want to prove things about people based on their genetics?  It makes me uncomfortable and could be used by very evil people to kill many people for many different reasons.  No people are perfect and any group could find some flaw in another people to justify an extermination.  Just my opinion though. 

I second this.

Also, IQ tests aren't really that great. Racists will always ignore the environmental factors that play in IQ tests. Intellectual accomplishments is what matters. I know people who are lions in Torah and Talmudic studies, these are the smart people I look up to. Take the Talmud for instance; if you do a folio a day, I think you can finish the entire Talmud in 7 years. What an achievement! These same people then go on to quote the Talmud left and right, like a mental Rolodex. Such an intellectual achievement should surely be a sign of a smart individual.

I think we'd all agree that there is a HUGE difference between knowledge and intelligence.  Honestly... some of the most knowledgeable people I know have no common sense or reason... but they are great at playing trivial pursuit.

Don't know the people you are referring to but like I said; IQ tests are nonsense. How else would we measure intelligence? Intellectual achievement is one.

I remember taking an IQ test, I was asked how do you make a martini. I kid you not. I don't drink, how the hell should I know? I threw that junk out. People have called me a genius for my gift of languages, I know 4, learning a 5th. Yet I could bomb any Math test you give me. Go figure. Humans are far too complex to be figured out by some 30 question test.

Let me guess. an internet IQ test.  The same ones that say the average Laker player has a 130 IQ.   Those tests are nonsence... I think we went over that in detail with a previous post.

No, it was a test in highschool we took similar to SAT's.

[SavetheWest]

What I'm saying is that these studies can be used and have been used by Nazis.

"There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." -- Thomas Jefferson

There are those who say that religion is dangerous because more people have been killed in its name than any other cause. There are those who say that scientific knowledge is dangerous because it has produced atom bombs. All knowledge is a double-edged sword which is capable of being used for good or evil but seeking knowledge and truth will always be intrinsic to human nature.

Personally I have never chosen to take an IQ test.

When I attended elementary school we had no choice in the matter. We were all required to take it. After the birth of the civil rights movement it was discovered that these tests discriminate against stupid people and they were withdrawn. Now, only the government allows itself to administer g loaded tests to prospective employees even though it has been proven that they are the best predictors for job success.

My point is not to hide from the science but to be very careful in conclusions about what the science says.  Eugenics was a key, if not main idealogy of the Nazi movement.  If the Nazis discovered some weaponry during WW2, it would be foolish to say that anyone who uses that technology is a Nazi.  Nazis were obsessed with genetics and used it for the worst evil mankind has seen in modern history.  Genetics probably would be a very interesting science and perhaps some personality traits are linked to it.  What I don't like, is telling anyone that their future is predetermined in one way or another, based on their genetic code.  Even though black Americans have major problems, I think it would be a huge mistake to say every single black has their success and future mapped out.  There are generations of white people in the Pacific Northwest, Glasgow or Appalachia who never have their situation improve.  Is it all genetics, economics, family attitude or culture?  Many people from these areas seem to rise above these situations; it's very hard to say.

[White Israelite]

What I'm saying is that these studies can be used and have been used by Nazis.

"There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." -- Thomas Jefferson

There are those who say that religion is dangerous because more people have been killed in its name than any other cause. There are those who say that scientific knowledge is dangerous because it has produced atom bombs. All knowledge is a double-edged sword which is capable of being used for good or evil but seeking knowledge and truth will always be intrinsic to human nature.

Personally I have never chosen to take an IQ test.

When I attended elementary school we had no choice in the matter. We were all required to take it. After the birth of the civil rights movement it was discovered that these tests discriminate against stupid people and they were withdrawn. Now, only the government allows itself to administer g loaded tests to prospective employees even though it has been proven that they are the best predictors for job success.

My point is not to hide from the science but to be very careful in conclusions about what the science says.  Eugenics was a key, if not main idealogy of the Nazi movement.  If the Nazis discovered some weaponry during WW2, it would be foolish to say that anyone who uses that technology is a Nazi.  Nazis were obsessed with genetics and used it for the worst evil mankind has seen in modern history.  Genetics probably would be a very interesting science and perhaps some personality traits are linked to it.  What I don't like, is telling anyone that their future is predetermined in one way or another, based on their genetic code.  Even though black Americans have major problems, I think it would be a huge mistake to say every single black has their success and future mapped out.  There are generations of white people in the Pacific Northwest, Glasgow or Appalachia who never have their situation improve.  Is it all genetics, economics, family attitude or culture?  Many people from these areas seem to rise above these situations; it's very hard to say.

Nazis were and still are also obsessed with weaponry and advancement of weapons, but yet we still don't glorify weapons as evil on this forum. Genetics like weapons have their purpose.

[SavetheWest]

What I'm saying is that these studies can be used and have been used by Nazis.

"There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." -- Thomas Jefferson

There are those who say that religion is dangerous because more people have been killed in its name than any other cause. There are those who say that scientific knowledge is dangerous because it has produced atom bombs. All knowledge is a double-edged sword which is capable of being used for good or evil but seeking knowledge and truth will always be intrinsic to human nature.

Personally I have never chosen to take an IQ test.

When I attended elementary school we had no choice in the matter. We were all required to take it. After the birth of the civil rights movement it was discovered that these tests discriminate against stupid people and they were withdrawn. Now, only the government allows itself to administer g loaded tests to prospective employees even though it has been proven that they are the best predictors for job success.

My point is not to hide from the science but to be very careful in conclusions about what the science says.  Eugenics was a key, if not main idealogy of the Nazi movement.  If the Nazis discovered some weaponry during WW2, it would be foolish to say that anyone who uses that technology is a Nazi.  Nazis were obsessed with genetics and used it for the worst evil mankind has seen in modern history.  Genetics probably would be a very interesting science and perhaps some personality traits are linked to it.  What I don't like, is telling anyone that their future is predetermined in one way or another, based on their genetic code.  Even though black Americans have major problems, I think it would be a huge mistake to say every single black has their success and future mapped out.  There are generations of white people in the Pacific Northwest, Glasgow or Appalachia who never have their situation improve.  Is it all genetics, economics, family attitude or culture?  Many people from these areas seem to rise above these situations; it's very hard to say.

Nazis were and still are also obsessed with weaponry and advancement of weapons, but yet we still don't glorify weapons as evil on this forum. Genetics like weapons have their purpose.

Eugenics though was unique to the Nazis as a national philosophy.  Almost every nation has had a military and weapons. 

[SavetheWest]

Personally I have never chosen to take an IQ test. I have never been impressed by them, and I happen to believe that progress in life depends on a lot of other things as well - determination, hard work, initiative, the ability to deal with people, a reputation for professionalism and honesty, etc. The problem is that there is no reason to believe that all these other behavioural characteristics do not have a genetic basis as well. Those who persist in denying genetics are providing a fertile breeding ground for those who would, and do, create a levelled society into which anyone is welcome, and in which everybody can be assured of an equal start by the massive transference of funds from the more hard working segments to those who prefer to sit all day on their backsides and listen to Rap.The result is predictable disaster, which is doing nothing to advance society and which for the rest of us is a massive disincentive to work.

As a notable UK Professor once said on the arrival of the Race Relations Act, you can ban racial discrimination just like you can ban arithmetic. I believe that much the same can be said of genetics.

I don't even want to know what the Race Relations Act says.  I'm guessing it says that the British must become strangers in their own land and love Muslim immigrants.

My belief is that you should give people a chance to succeed, only if you have the resources to do so.  There is no reason for Britian to host these people from all over the world.  Britain should give all British people a chance to get a good education but I just don't get why it's up to them to educate third world slums in London. 

[SavetheWest]

Think of intellect as ammunition.  By itself it is completely worthless.  What is important is in whose hands is that ammunition.

Intelligence by itself is worthless.  It is no guarantee of morality or accomplishment.  What good is an intelligent lazy person?  Or an intelligent drunk?  What good is a Ferrari without gasoline?  I am a teacher and I have seen mountains of intellect go to waste over the years.  

I am an intelligent person, but I would much rather be thought of by my friends and family as a good person.  That is infinitely more important.

Think of the people that inspire you the most.  Do you admire them for their intellect?  I admire Moses, Abraham, Mordechai Anielewicz, Rabbi Kahane, Terry Fox, John Hagee, Tiger Woods, and many others.  Some of these were very smart people, but that is not why I admire them.  Think of the men on your list.  Is their intelligence the reason for your admiration?

Interesting point.

[angryChineseKahanist]

I agree. You are born with a combined intelligence of your parents.
That's obvious by just observation.
Like the out of africa theory. All the intelligent people left the continent. All the dumb ones stayed behind.
Just look around. Are there any smart people in the dark continent?
All other lands have smart people except in the hot jungle.
Environment also plays a large part in intelligence.
In the hot jungle, everything is plentiful.
Hungry? Grab a banana.
Horny? Grab a hoe.
Lazy? Lay down on the soft muddy ground.
In other lands, there's cold wind, harsh cold snow. Then there's the desert.
Extreame conditions force people to be creative. Those who made fire, wheel,  etc... survived; those who couldn't died.

[MikeyChua]

Eugenics was a key, if not main idealogy of the Nazi movement.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2008/08/ending_a_histor.php

IQ tests are nonsense.

If there are any folks on this list who have doubts about the validity and reliability of IQ tests, may I suggest an excellent primer on the subject which was written by a NYC Jew: A Question of Intelligence by Daniel Seligman. This, of course, is directed at those of you who might actually possess more intellectual curiosity than an interest in spouting opinions based on no knowledge.

I think these studies can be very dangerous.

First the Nazis had a book burning of all books written by Jews because their ideas were dangerous.

Then a saintly rabbi of blessed memory went to Israel. He told the truth and formed a political party but they banned it because they said that his ideas were too dangerous.

Then his number two tried to go to Israel to carry on his work, but the authorities refused to admit him because they said his ideas were too dangerous.

Now his followers want to ban other ideas because, you guessed it, they're too dangerous.

The hippies carried around signs which read, "ban the bomb."

So Bob Dylan made a sign which said, "ban the bums."

Me, I'm making a banner which reads, "ban the banners."

[Nadav]

I think these studies can be very dangerous.  Do we really want to prove things about people based on their genetics?  It makes me uncomfortable and could be used by very evil people to kill many people for many different reasons.  No people are perfect and any group could find some flaw in another people to justify an extermination.  Just my opinion though. 

I second this.

Also, IQ tests aren't really that great. Racists will always ignore the environmental factors that play in IQ tests. Intellectual accomplishments is what matters. I know people who are lions in Torah and Talmudic studies, these are the smart people I look up to. Take the Talmud for instance; if you do a folio a day, I think you can finish the entire Talmud in 7 years. What an achievement! These same people then go on to quote the Talmud left and right, like a mental Rolodex. Such an intellectual achievement should surely be a sign of a smart individual.

I think we'd all agree that there is a HUGE difference between knowledge and intelligence.  Honestly... some of the most knowledgeable people I know have no common sense or reason... but they are great at playing trivial pursuit.

Don't know the people you are referring to but like I said; IQ tests are nonsense. How else would we measure intelligence? Intellectual achievement is one.

I remember taking an IQ test, I was asked how do you make a martini. I kid you not. I don't drink, how the hell should I know? I threw that junk out. People have called me a genius for my gift of languages, I know 4, learning a 5th. Yet I could bomb any Math test you give me. Go figure. Humans are far too complex to be figured out by some 30 question test.

Let me guess. an internet IQ test.  The same ones that say the average Laker player has a 130 IQ.   Those tests are nonsence... I think we went over that in detail with a previous post.

Nope, was in college when I took it.

[Lisa]

Speaking of eugenics, it was NOT started by the Nazis.  The father of the eugenics movement was Sir Francis Galton, who was Charles Darwin's cousin.  Here's some background on Mr. Galton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Francis_Galton

You guys should also know that the eugenics movement was strongest in America in the early part of the 20th century.  There was even an article many years ago on the JTF website saying the exact same thing.  Hitler, yimach shmo, studied the American eugenics laws, and had them implemented in Germany. Here's more info:

http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html

Also remember that the founder of Planner Parenthood, Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger

In her book "The Pivot of Civilization" she wrote all about how the "feeble minded" should be prevented from having children.  She believed that charity was wrong in that it encourage irresponsible breeding.

Reed the whole thing here:

http://www.trdd.org/pivot_01.htm

[Lisa]

MikeyChua,

I have one disagreement on that Amren article you linked to, specifically this paragraph:

Nothing has blackened the reputation of eugenics so much as its link to the Hitler regime. In the estimation of Paul Popenoe, one of the leading figures in the American eugenics movement, “The major factor in the decline of eugenics was undoubtedly Hitlerism.” But in fact, as the American geneticist and anthropologist Stephen Saetz has demonstrated in a well-researched study of eugenics in the Third Reich, German eugenic practice was not radically different from its American counterpart, and many policies afterwards blamed on eugenics, above all the measures against the Jews, had nothing to do with eugenics. The “euthanasia” program, in which as many as 80,000 of the severely retarded and incurably insane were killed, was motivated by a desire to free medical facilities and personnel at the outset of the war, and was not a eugenics program. In the view of historian Sheila Faith Weiss: “German eugenicists . . . have at most only indirect responsibility for the “euthanasia’ program.”

There is no excuse for killing innocent disabled people! 

Also, if Nazi Germany hadn't started WWII by attacking Poland and invading all of Europe, the issue of freeing up hospital beds would be irrelevant!

Here's more background on the T4 program:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4

Hitler called these disabled people "useless eaters." 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The fact that any member would be promoting Amren "articles" is atrocious. We are not Nazis and we do not believe there is a difference between humans and "subhumans". This dreck belongs nowhere near JTF.

[White Israelite]

The fact that any member would be promoting Amren "articles" is atrocious. We are not Nazis and we do not believe there is a difference between humans and "subhumans". This dreck belongs nowhere near JTF.

Amren as in American renaissance? I copied that article from sherdog forums.