Author Topic: M1 Garand....  (Read 15272 times)

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Offline MountainMan

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Re: M1 Garand....
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2009, 11:02:02 PM »
You rifle is sweet! I used to own Kel Tech SU-16a rifle and did not really like it. It jammed alot and I think 5.56 calibre is just too lacking stopping power.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/big/su16A_01.jpg

My next rifle should be SOCOM M14 riflie 7.62mm, something like that:
http://www.m1arifles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/m1a-socom-ii-rifle.jpg

Shotguns are great for home defense - you have 8 rounds and the clicking noise that they make is enough to dissuade most intruders.

I also like Magpul Masada and perhaps I will get the new bulpup Tavor in 5.56 or 7.62, if available.

Well, I think you are right on for looking into the Magpul.  As far as 5.56 not having enough stopping power, that debate has been going on for half a generation.   And, from my own research, I can determine the 5.56 does not lack stopping power, rather it lacks proper configuration in the battlefield.  Civilians can own ballistic-tip, hollow-point, high-grain 5.56 cartridges that the military is not allowed to use.  The military is confined to NATO ball ammo, which will be of the M193 or M855 penetrator variety.  Both these ammos lack stopping power, because they are full metal jacket and have minimum expansion on the targets they hit.    Also, the military is stuck using bullets of a weight ranging from 55gr- 62 gr bullets.

I have an LMT AR-15 rifle that has a 1:7 twist barrel that can easily stablize the heavier weight bullets compared to a 1:9 twist barrel.  All mil-spec weapons are using the higher twist rate on their M-16/AR-15 rifles, but the military rarely utilizes the heavier weight bullets that these type of guns are capable of handling.  The result is, you have a gun that is not used to its fullest potential.  However, Joe American Consumer is not restricted to all kinds of NATO/UN bullsh*t that our military is and we can purchase any type of rifle configuration and cartridge we wish.

So, my AR-15 guns will serve me much better than any 7.62 x 51 (.308) rifle at close range, because in close quarter combat, you need to have time to make fast follow up shots.  WIth a .308 the recoil will certainly inhibit you.  I will load my LMT rifle with 64gr-77gr bullets which have very close stopping power to 6.8mm round, which is a step up from the 5.56.  NOw, add to that a ballistic tip or hollow point that violently expands into human flesh , you have yourself a very powerful round.    6.8mm would be a great choice, if it wasn't so damn expensive to use this ammo.  Unfortunately, the military doesn't utilize this round, so there is not much of a market for it.

Not all 5.56 is the same, do some investigation before you make a claim that the entier round is not effective.  The round shot out of an AK is 7.62 x 39 is also very ineffective, but does have a harder punch.  the 7.62 x 39 of th AK-47 is a round that is not aerodynamic and generally results in poor accuracy once you start getting past 50 yards.  Its not uncommon for these bullets to curve left or right of your target. 

The 7.62 x 51 is the best man stopper for longer range targets, but at close range its not a better round to use than a 5.56 using a higher weight hollow point/Bal TIp bullet.


This is a good example of the type of ammunition I would use in a attack where islamic-zombies are raiding my house.  One moderately well placed shot with this round and your target is likely going down.    Remember at close range, the .308 will also have overpenetration.  You don't want that.



Shotgun is good for home defense. Forget about using the clicking sound to scare away an intruder, that's an old wives tale.  My shotgun uses 12 round magazines and I don't have to worry about running out of ammo so much with it.  Nonetheless the thing kicks like a mule.. Not always ideal for multiple attackers.   If you under attack by muzzies, don't bother with a shotgun.


« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 11:08:22 PM by MountainMan »

Offline Manch

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Re: M1 Garand....
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2009, 01:17:50 AM »

Shotgun is good for home defense. Forget about using the clicking sound to scare away an intruder, that's an old wives tale.  My shotgun uses 12 round magazines and I don't have to worry about running out of ammo so much with it.  Nonetheless the thing kicks like a mule.. Not always ideal for multiple attackers.   If you under attack by muzzies, don't bother with a shotgun.




I love your statement about shotgun! In general, I agree with you post - it is very informative and well researched. I still like to have 7.62 SOCOM M14 - it will be great for range practices. What do you think about Magpul vs. Tavor?
Thank you!
Hayot Araviot Masrihot

Offline SW

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Re: M1 Garand....
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2009, 05:28:00 AM »
I really need one too! But this damn gun controle...  >:(

how bad it is in Germany? What can you own? I know that nazi immediately banned gun ownership when they came to power.

I can own actually nothing. I need a license for a Gas Pistol. Knifes are illegal if they are to long. And for normal Pistols or even rifles you need a license and a test. You need a safe where you must put the weapon in and another safe to put the ammunition in. Stupid...

Offline MountainMan

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Re: M1 Garand....
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2009, 11:53:44 AM »
I love your statement about shotgun! In general, I agree with you post - it is very informative and well researched. I still like to have 7.62 SOCOM M14 - it will be great for range practices. What do you think about Magpul vs. Tavor?
Thank you!

Well, thats a tough question for me since I never operated either gun.  I think the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR may be one of the revolutionary rifles to hit the market.   It is a tactial battle rifle that looks similar to the FN Scar design.  However, this gun I think will be a great improvement over the flawed FN Scar and probably cost more than half less of the FN Scar's ($4000) price tag.  The FN Scar is a jam-o-matic from what I have been told.  The Magpul Masada also has incorporated some of the better features of various other rifles along with the SCAR, such as the H&K G36.   Bushmaster ACR and Magpul Madada are the same gun, its just that Bushmaster bought the rights to manufacture the gun using their name.  The Magpul Masada has some advantages over the Tavor in the fact that it is a modular design.  You can interchange parts on the Masada as well as replace the barrels.  The Masada will allow you to switch from a 5.56 to a 6.8 to a .308 caliber in a matter of minutes using the replaceable barrels.  This is a very important feature in the battlefield, seeing you don't know what type of scenario you may face and that certain calibers are better for certain situations and carrying two guns is not a feasible option.

The Tavor is probably the best bullpup-style rifle on the market.  Some love this design, others hate it.  I have never really shot a bullpup style rifle and don't know whether I would prefer it or not.  The Tavor would obviously be great in close range combat, like for clearing rooms in a house.  I also hear for its size its highly accurate and resiliant to all forms of external stress, such as weather, sand, water, etc.   The Tavor also comes with a real cool reflex sight that is built into the gun.  Some may or may not like the fact that they don't have the option to replace this optic.  Maybe the newer Tavors allow you to replace the built-in reflex sight.   


I think the Magpul Masada will prove to be a better gun, but it is like comparing apples and oranges, since both may prove to have advantages in different areas.

Offline Manch

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Re: M1 Garand....
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2009, 12:29:40 PM »
I really need one too! But this damn gun controle...  >:(

how bad it is in Germany? What can you own? I know that nazi immediately banned gun ownership when they came to power.

I can own actually nothing. I need a license for a Gas Pistol. Knifes are illegal if they are to long. And for normal Pistols or even rifles you need a license and a test. You need a safe where you must put the weapon in and another safe to put the ammunition in. Stupid...
Do it! Take a test, sign for a club membership, buy a gun, keep it locked in the safe! It is best to have and never use it. Very similar gun control restrictions are in Canada. It will only get worse.
Hayot Araviot Masrihot

Offline Manch

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Re: M1 Garand....
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2009, 12:35:33 PM »
I think the Magpul Masada will prove to be a better gun, but it is like comparing apples and oranges, since both may prove to have advantages in different areas.
Thanks MountainMan - I will do more research on this. I've never shot a bulpup and not sure how comfortable they are for a big guy. I love everything about Magpul, though! The ability to change the barrel is not that important to most front line troops, but it is really cool for private owners.
Hayot Araviot Masrihot

Offline bobish

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Re: M1 Garand....
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2009, 07:44:47 PM »
I have a springfield M1g in 308..

Very nice gun. Takes a bit to get used to.

A bit more PC than an assault rifle.
Might not be a worry to you.

I have AKs, AR's, and an M1a..

They are really just tools.
The right tool for the right job.

bob

Offline wonga66

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Re: M1 Garand....
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2009, 03:29:17 PM »
Without a scope, in an urban area, the average person with one eye closed can barely make out a human figure much beyond 100 yards.

For most purposes, the 177 bullets of the American 180 are more than adequate!