Which army is the better? The Israeli or the Iranian?

[JRB]

People lets not let pride get in the way of sound reasoning, Israel was and the word is was superior to Iran's military but as of now Iran is building nuclear weapons.
Israel must stop worrying about the United States and World opinion and take care of Iran NOW.
As of now I would say that Israel and the United States will be hit with a nuclear bomb from Iran within the next 10 years.
Israel's superior weapons and technology won't mean a thing when Iran sends 5 nuclear missiles into Israel.
Remember Iran does not care about it's own people and Israel does care about their own people so that's where Iran has the upper hand.

[bobish]

Not much of a fight.
IDF has it, in every key area.

Fanatics don't win wars.
Wars are won by well trained, motivated troops.
And the will to use them.

Israel has the best professional military in the world.
They have not pulled the gloves off, in over 30 years.

The only way Israel can fail, is to lose its will.

bob

[The One and Only Mo]

It's not about armies. It's about Muslims vs. Jews and there is no way to defeat an enemy like the suicidal Muslims especially when Jews are not united and allow Arabs to freaking live within range of them. Only Hashem can help us, but many will die before that happens.

[Serbian Canadian]

When was the last time Muslims had a great army? Maybe the Ottoman Turks in the 17th-18th centuries.

Muslims lack organizational skills. In a one-on-one battle they rarely succeed. They can blow up themselves up and murder innocent civilians in the process but they sure as hell stink on the battlefield. The IDF has extensive training in anti-terrorism and they have one of the more professional militaries in the world.

As others have said, crazy fanatical Muslims who lack training= Epic fail come war time.   

[bobish]

Armies have fought suicidal fighters, in the past.
And have won.
It happens today,,,

Muslim armies hold no special magic.
They get defeated, all the time.

A well trained force, and the will to use it, will do okay.

bob

[The One and Only Mo]

Armies have fought suicidal fighters, in the past.
And have won.
It happens today,,,

Muslim armies hold no special magic.
They get defeated, all the time.

A well trained force, and the will to use it, will do okay.

bob

It's not the armies against the suicidal fighters. It's the CIVILIANS against the suicidal fighters.

[hyperion]

Ulli:

I read, that the Iranians gave up, because the USA pressured them and finally shoot down an Iranian civil aircraft. The Iranian army was short before victory, in defiance of the hughe military support of nearly the whole world in favour of Saddam Hussein.

They are not only dangerous because of their fanatism, they are in first line dangerous, because their culture is not a culture of totally failure.They are able to do things. I can easily proof it.

Look they are building cars, aircrafts, missles and lots of other stuff on their own. And the Iranian diaspora is one of the most successfull communities ever.

Even their foreign policy is able to split western societies about non Muzzie topics. I.e they supported the anti G8 protests.

The Iranians are in some regards like the Germans even in their current leadership's special form of anti-semitism. We must be extra carefull, otherwise we will suffer hardly.

I don't see an Iranian victory, but I see a hard battle, because most western politicians and people underestimate Iran heavily. Iran is able to bring terrible suffering into this world.

Yes, yes what you said is completely true, the influence which the Iranians have is huge and they are actively work to destroy the western world, they wreak serious havoc even in countries, where there is no significant muslim population. Hungary is the best example:

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2009/9/jobbik-and-those-who-stand-behind-it-1318452.html

They don't care who they make alliance with. They aid and finance both neo-nazi and far-left groups.

[Ulli]

Ulli:

I read, that the Iranians gave up, because the USA pressured them and finally shoot down an Iranian civil aircraft. The Iranian army was short before victory, in defiance of the hughe military support of nearly the whole world in favour of Saddam Hussein.

They are not only dangerous because of their fanatism, they are in first line dangerous, because their culture is not a culture of totally failure.They are able to do things. I can easily proof it.

Look they are building cars, aircrafts, missles and lots of other stuff on their own. And the Iranian diaspora is one of the most successfull communities ever.

Even their foreign policy is able to split western societies about non Muzzie topics. I.e they supported the anti G8 protests.

The Iranians are in some regards like the Germans even in their current leadership's special form of anti-semitism. We must be extra carefull, otherwise we will suffer hardly.

I don't see an Iranian victory, but I see a hard battle, because most western politicians and people underestimate Iran heavily. Iran is able to bring terrible suffering into this world.

Yes, yes what you said is completely true, the influence which the Iranians have is huge and they are actively work to destroy the western world, they wreak serious havoc even in countries, where there is no significant muslim population. Hungary is the best example:

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2009/9/jobbik-and-those-who-stand-behind-it-1318452.html

They don't care who they make alliance with. They aid and finance both neo-nazi and far-left groups.

Yes, hyperion, this is their true nature. Thank you for posting this here!

[wonga66]

Spurred by the arms embargo, the Iranians have had to develop weapons that have been shown to work and are somewhat ingenious, even if they are one-offs e.g. a "new" 8-barrelled DShK AA mount!

0.55 here



The recoil when all guns are firing must be quite fierce, and refilling 8 boxes a shpiel.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

They fought a war of 9 years 1980-1988. Sadam Hussein took advantage of the weakness of the Irani Army because of the Khumeini revolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War

Eventually Iran gave up because Iraq was threatening with chemical weapon attacks on Tehran.

But if there is war, Iran will attack the Israeli civil population.  And what can Israel do against it?

There are 18 populated areas in Iran.

The surrounding geography of Tehran is unique.  It is surrounded by rock walls/mountains.  If a nuke was dropped on Tehran all of the energy released would not only be direct, but would bounce right off the walls right back at Tehran, as well as the heat seeping into the rock walls and then radiating back into Tehran.  A tri-convection oven.  Fallout would be minimal because of the unique geography as well.
-Perhaps nuking one of their most holy sites would suffice.  Perhaps not.

If it's us or them; them every single time.

-I like Persians.  I study Zoroastrianism.  I love Persian food, and music.  I love Purim.  I would not want to see Tehran get nuked.  I would like to see Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs heads on platters instead.  If Iran were to throw off the shackles of Islam we would have a non-Islamic non-Arab neighbor in the area.  Persians have a lot of pride, if they get their heads on straight I bet they would LOVE for some revenge for being infected with the Arabic virus. - Just guessing.

Isn't part of Iran supposed to be part of Eretz Yisrael?

[mord]

The Talmud predicted that the final war will be between Paras (= Persia = Iran) and Edom (= Rome= Western World= USA), they being the only two kingdoms that'll exist up to the Messianic Age. And some opinions have the Persians winning!

As one on one infantry, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard look like being a match for anyone!



Iranians are known to be none too smart. But to make up for it, they are unbelievably cunning. Which makes them triply dangerous!

I don't see anything in that photo that shows them to be a good infantry

[wonga66]

In infantry vs infantry clashes with Hizbollah, Jewish soldiers of the IDF have not perform too well. The gentile Druze IDF soldiers performed better.

As Hizbollah & the Iranians are both fanatically religiously motivated Shiites, being variations on a theme, but the Iranians not being Arabs, in a pure infantry clash of 100 Iranians vs 100 IDF Israeli Jews, ceteris paribus, I would not expect anyone to walk off the pitch alive.

[mord]

In infantry vs infantry clashes with Hizbollah, Jewish soldiers of the IDF have not perform too well. The gentile Druze IDF soldiers performed better.

As Hizbollah & the Iranians are both fanatically religiously motivated Shiites, being variations on a theme, but the Iranians not being Arabs, in a pure infantry clash of 100 Iranians vs 100 IDF Israeli Jews, ceteris paribus, I would not expect anyone to walk off the pitch alive.

Thats because Hezzbollah has deep tunnels and the hills.The Druse live in hilltop villages so they're used to climbing hills.The Israelis are mostly city people not used to running up hills.They need harder physical training

[Ulli]

Spurred by the arms embargo, the Iranians have had to develop weapons that have been shown to work and are somewhat ingenious, even if they are one-offs e.g. a "new" 8-barrelled DShK AA mount!

0.55 here



The recoil when all guns are firing must be quite fierce, and refilling 8 boxes a shpiel.

I think the idea of this Anti-Aircraft Gun is good. But the calibre is too small. Very possible this gun is not able to load fragment ammunition. So it will be not so effective against cruise missles or low flying airplanes. Another problem of the small calibre is the lack of range.

In western armies even 20mm cannons are sorted out and are replaced by 30 mm cannons + fire and forget weapons like the stinger. This Iranian FLAK has a calibre around 13mm.

[bobish]

The IDF has a number of counters to the tunnel fight.

It has a group of forces that train to enter and fight in tunnels, In the US we call them 'Tunnel Rats'.
Sounds like they getting a lot of wins.
North and South. Hamas has tunnels, too.

Also they helped invent a number of ground penetrating radars, with the US.
Very advanced. Info about them is still pretty hard to get. But, tunnels are not as safe as they used to be.

The Druzes(sp) IDF soldiers are some of the best trackers in the world.

Still believe, a 100 IDF folks are worth a 100 of Anyone infantry.

bob

[john10001]

There are 18 populated areas in Iran.

The surrounding geography of Tehran is unique.  It is surrounded by rock walls/mountains.  If a nuke was dropped on Tehran all of the energy released would not only be direct, but would bounce right off the walls right back at Tehran, as well as the heat seeping into the rock walls and then radiating back into Tehran.  A tri-convection oven.  Fallout would be minimal because of the unique geography as well.
-Perhaps nuking one of their most holy sites would suffice.  Perhaps not.

If it's us or them; them every single time.

-I like Persians.  I study Zoroastrianism.  I love Persian food, and music.  I love Purim.  I would not want to see Tehran get nuked.  I would like to see Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs heads on platters instead.  If Iran were to throw off the shackles of Islam we would have a non-Islamic non-Arab neighbor in the area.  Persians have a lot of pride, if they get their heads on straight I bet they would LOVE for some revenge for being infected with the Arabic virus. - Just guessing.

Isn't part of Iran supposed to be part of Eretz Yisrael?

Ariel,

Agreed with what you said re: Iran.

I think they would have to do precision bombing with conventional bombs or those special small nukes that stay contained within a limited area.

The bible shows that Iran will still be around in the end times as will Israel so there is nothing to fear there.

I believe you will likely see a pre-emptive strike against Iran though by the Israeli's and possibly the Americans as well. You never know I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Gulf States and Saudi (the Sunnis) actually carried out pre-emptive action as Iran is also a major threat to them as well. Muslims have always been responsible for killing more fellow muslims than anybody else. Even when it doesn't appear they're involved they have supported action against their brothers. E.g. Look at the action in Gaza a year ago. Fatah had been secretly begging the Israelis to go in against Hamas.  The Saudis have granted permission to the Israelis to fly over the Northern border of their country if they are going to take out Iran's nuclear facilities. The Saudis are never going to admit that publicy though, and Fatah would never admit they begged the Israelis to attack Hamas!

I think there are troubling times ahead and there isn't any chance of this being resolved diplomatically with the Iranians so there's no doubt going to be a major conflict and strikes against Iran probably this year. Their nuclear facilities will all be taken out with air strikes, missile strikes and quite possibly commandos going in as well, as some of their facilities they won't be able to take them out from the air alone. I'm not so sure that Israel govt would use nukes even small ones to do that even if it would get the job done. I think they'll do it with commandos if they have to, even if it means losing troops or any being captured.

In response to this we could have problems in the Gulf with oil supplies. We could see oil prices go skywards and be paying £1.20 to £2.00 or more per litre at the pumps for petrol here in Britain. Iran could likely fire off missiles at Israel, other surrounding nations and the West (some of their missiles will hit parts of Europe so anyone who supports action against Iran could be a target).

The worst scenario is they are passing bombs to their proxy Hezbollah to carry out terrorists attacks around the world. Lets hope they don't get a hold of any nuclear material because the consequences would be pretty bad. Suicide bombers are bad enough but one nuclear suicide bomber with a dirty (bad enough) or dread to think clean bomb is a big problem. Iran have carried out attacks half way around the world previously. When the Argentinians stopped co-operating and working with them on nuclear plants in the 70's or 80's I believe it was when they bombed Buenos Aires and the Israeli Embassy there as retribution. That is the big fear, the global reach of their terrorist proxies.

I believe that the Eranites were originally a tribe from ancient Israel who settled in parts of Iran. Hence were the name Tehran comes from. Tehran, Teran, eran, eranites. Same with the modern name of their country. Iran, Eran, Eranites. An ancient tribe from Israel. If they realise this then maybe they will start prefer to be Persians again? Even then though you still can't take the eran-ites out of them. Persian, Persan, Peran, eran, eranites

I am wondering how many nations around the world will kick themselves when they are judged and find out part of their roots are going back to Israel and they have been sheding the blood of their cousins for thousands of years.

Cheers,

John

[john10001]

If Iran attacks Tel Aviv, lets say with gas, biological or nuclear weapons, the cards are on the table.  Who knows what will happen.  I personally, think oil is the least they would lose if they did pursue such a vicious attack on Israeli soil, resulting in mass destruction.   

Israel can put an embargo on Iran's oil, if Iran has threatened Israel's integrity, at that point support from the West will be negligable..  Also, [censored] off and isolating a powerful, nuclear armed country liked Israel, is not in the West's best interests over a pathetic nation like Iran.  As much as Obama will try to weaken Israel, he will soon find himself in a dangerous situaiton of alienating a country that has substantial world influence.

Israel and CHina were also engaging in heavy trade of weaponry and the USA forced Israel to shut down their operations and stop selling its advanced technology to CHina.  China also has some very high quality jet fighters that Israel can utilize.  If USA wishes to use military and supply leverage against Israel, Israel can take its business elsewhere.  Also, there is nothing more that the Department of Defense woudl want than a powerful advanced nuclear nation like Israel working side by side with nations like China and Russia in military trade. 

As far as Europe is concerned, screw them... All of Europe hates Israels guts and would attempt to destroy Israel at any attempt they could if they didnt' fear that they themselves would be wiped off the earth.  Look at Spain, France and Great Britain... They are all very opposed to Israel's existance.

There's an interesting article from Haaretz that says one strike against Iran back in 2004 could have set back their nuclear ambitions for several years.

"It is possible that years ago, the problem of Iran's nuclear project could have been solved by one tough blow and with relatively minimal risk. At that time, the project was dependent on one facility: the uranium conversion plant in Isfahan.

If it had been bombed, Iran would have lost large quantities of raw material for uranium enrichment, and its nuclear program would have been set back years. But nothing happened, and the Iranians went ahead and dispersed their facilities and materials into fortified bunkers that would be far more difficult to hit.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has promised to do everything in order to prevent the Iranians from acquiring military nuclear capabilities, but if he fails, he can pin the blame on his predecessors, who flinched from attacking at the propitious moment. Perhaps that is what National Security Adviser Uzi Arad was getting at when he blamed previous governments for leaving Netanyahu "scorched earth" in advance of..."

Full article: www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1135892.html


Mord - This means we need to support the hilltop youth in the quest to take every hilltop and settle the land. Not only for future strategic importance, but for present day training, and of course for biblical reasons too.

Zelhar - The picture in your signature is right on the money.

Wonga66 - My belief is that Edom refers to Turkey not Rome, the West and United States. My understanding of the bible is that the United States will not be a major power at the End Times (unfortunately!). It is quite possible that there could be a conflict between Turkey and Iran at some stage there's plenty of time for it to happen.

MountainMan - I believe they would also hit their oil supplies simply to prevent their military from being mobile. I agree - screw the EU! I'm at least one Briton who isn't opposed to Israel's existence. I'm not a european though! The hate mongers in my country are mostly lefties. Either Muslims, socialists, commies or bnp (nazis far right). I believe majority of British support Israel and are opposed to terrorism, though looking in the media tv news and tabloids at protest marches etc you might be forgiven in disbeliving this as they have good propaganda. That is one of the big dangers - that Hamas and Hezbollah have gotten so good at media manipulation. In 2006 Lebanon War they somehow managed to make it look like the entire nation had been levelled not just a small terrorist controlled area of South Beirut. Even western media believes it, and they never admit it was tighly controlled and they didn't have free press or ability to go where they wanted, it was all carefully orchestrated and stage managed.

A year ago there was pro-Israel marches in London in support of the actions against Hamas terrorists and right of Israeli civilians not to be attacked. There was also a parade to celebrate Israel's 60th birthday two years ago (even though they have existed for thousands of years!). See links at the end.

Cheers,

John



British support for Israel action against Hamas in Gaza

www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjohnbeckett/3187256181/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjohnbeckett/3187210183/in/set-72157594328793979/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjohnbeckett/3187210203/in/set-72157594328793979/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjohnbeckett/3188319768/in/set-72157594328793979/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjohnbeckett/3187821681/in/set-72157594328793979/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisjohnbeckett/3189682226/in/set-72157594328793979/

www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054494.html

www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23615802-thousands-to-march-through-london-over-middle-east-conflict.do

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/79459

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7822656.stm

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/proisrael%20demonstrations%20in%20uk/2901307

http://edgar1981.blogspot.com/2009/01/pro-israel-rally-london-nice-people.html

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/01/08/1002088/pro-israel-demonstrations-held-in-london-brussels

www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3280382,00.html



Parades in both London and Manchester to celebrate Israel's 60th birthday a couple years ago. See links below:

www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3561890,00.html

www.jeneration.org/component/option,com_eventlist/Itemid,60/did,767/func,details/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salute_to_Israel_Parade

[Yirmayahu]

First of all, the technology will triumph over brute force.

Secondly, I've had the unfortunate opportunity of working with Iranians who have slithered into the US. They're only as good as the taskmaster who gives them the orders, and they're not very good at processing information on their own. Ask them a question that is beyond what they have been told by their superiors and they start to resemble a Microsoft Windows operated computer when there is a software glitch. They get a blank look on their faces and they just repeat nonsensical rhetoric over and over again. So, my advice to the IDF is, before you attack, pepper the battlefield with leaflets in Farsi that say something like; "what is the square root of 12," and they'll be so confused that a group of girlscouts could come against them and take them over.

And finally, I still insist that there is something in camel milk that causes brain damage and that in addition to having oil in the ground, something called [censored] gas permeates from the ground and finishes off what the camel milk didn't do. G-d cleanse this world of Islam and pay em' back a thousand fold for all of the trouble that they have caused!! AMEN

[Debbie Shafer]

The IDF has technology and innovativeness, and many things up their sleeves that the Iranians would never think of! 

[ISRAELIPATRIOT1957]

  It's not even close, The IDF, IAF, THE MOSSAD IS THE BEST THAT G-D EVER PUT ON THIS EARTH.

[ISRAELIPATRIOT1957]

 
I SPENT MANY YRS IN A SOG, AND WORKED WITH MANY SOG's FROM AROUND THE WORLD. NO BODY AND I MEAN NO BODY CAN HOLD A CANDLE TO THE SOG's OF YISRAEL. THEY TOUGHT THE WORLD IN THE 1970's & 80's. NOBODY IS MORE PROUD OF THE SOG's OF AMERICA, BUT THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH! SO MY AMERICAN BRO's, DON'T GET TOO PISSED AT ME!