should we ally ouselves with other rightists organisations?

[Ben m]

what do you think about this?

[JTFenthusiast2]

The English Defence League, Yes  ( I wouldn't swear to it, but I think so).  The BNP--no

[christians4jews]

what about ukip??i might even join the party...

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

yes, Hindu Nationalist... others i dont know much

[syyuge]

Generally not. However under special circumstances only those righteous organisations can be made friends who completely agree to Jewish Orthodox view point as applicable to Greater Israel.   

[briann]

I assume, by rightists, you are saying, far right? and not righteous.

THe answer to this is simple, absolutely if they are righteous, and absolutely not if they are the European paleo-nationalist socialist nazi morons.

So, we are all 100% supporting Geert and the people dutch party.  We cannot say enough about that great guy.

however, all the fossil nazi moron fascist idiots of the last generation, such as le Pen and the likes, deserve nothing but contempt.  There are those who have become pro-Israel and Pro-Zionist but had an anti-ISrael past as recently as 15-20 years ago.  We will not ally with them, unless we can see that their organization can continue a pro-Israel stance and its not just a marketing campaign to get votes from the Righteous.

[Ben m]

what about ukip??i might even join the party...

i never heard of ukip but from my point of view: if they are rightists i would gladly ally with them.

[Ben m]

I assume, by rightists, you are saying, far right? and not righteous.

THe answer to this is simple, absolutely if they are righteous, and absolutely not if they are the European paleo-nationalist socialist nazi morons.

So, we are all 100% supporting Geert and the people dutch party.  We cannot say enough about that great guy.

however, all the fossil nazi moron fascist idiots of the last generation, such as le Pen and the likes, deserve nothing but contempt.  There are those who have become pro-Israel and Pro-Zionist but had an anti-ISrael past as recently as 15-20 years ago.  We will not ally with them, unless we can see that their organization can continue a pro-Israel stance and its not just a marketing campaign to get votes from the Righteous.

well of course i meat far right organisation.i don't want to ally with other nations versions of the likud.now for the parties themselves.i think that if they were anti israel until ten or fifteen years ago and then changed their view and still keeping pro israeli views today it is mean they don't do this for marketing purpose beacuse the israeli government abandoned them.

[Ben m]

by the way.do you have suggestion for a far right movement we could ally with? (i suggest that we will first try the pvv and the edl).

[Ben m]

yes, Hindu Nationalist... others i dont know much

what are the stance of hindu nationalists regarding israel?

[Spiraling Leopard]

How exactly would you envision productively working together with a party like the PVV or, since you're an Israeli, how do you productively benefit HaYamin HaAmiti at this moment?

[Ben m]

How exactly would you envision productively working together with a party like the PVV or, since you're an Israeli, how do you productively benefit HaYamin HaAmiti at this moment?

i am envisioning a productive work in the fields of propganda and information,demonstration,political education and ideological influence.

[muman613]

How exactly would you envision productively working together with a party like the PVV or, since you're an Israeli, how do you productively benefit HaYamin HaAmiti at this moment?

i am envisioning a productive work in the fields of propganda and information,demonstration,political education and ideological influence.

Maybe you can be the next Goebbels... You know he was Hitlers minister of Propaganda...

Paul Joseph Goebbels (pronounced /ˈɡɜrbəlz/, German: [ˈɡœbəls]; 29 October 1897 – 1 May 1945) was a German politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. As one of German dictator Adolf Hitler's closest associates and most devout followers, he was known for his zealous oratory and anti-Semitism. He was the chief architect of the Kristallnacht attack on the German Jews, which historians consider to be the beginning of the Final Solution, leading towards the genocide of the Holocaust.

http://www.psywarrior.com/Goebbels.html

Maybe this can be useful to you:

    In 1925 Goebbels met the party leader Adolf Hitler. In 1926 he was made Gauleiter, or party leader, for the region of Berlin, and in 1927 he founded and became editor of the official National Socialist periodical Der Angriff (The Attack). He was elected to the Reichstag, the German parliament, in 1928. By exploiting mob emotions and by employing all modern methods of propaganda Goebbels helped Hitler into power.
     
    His work as a propagandist materially aided Hitler's rise to power in 1933. When Hitler seized power in 1933, Goebbels was appointed Reichsminister for propaganda and national enlightenment. From then until his death, Goebbels used all media of education and communications to further Nazi propagandistic aims, instilling in the Germans the concept of their leader as a veritable G-d and of their destiny as the rulers of the world. In 1938 he became a member of the Hitler cabinet council. Late in World War II, in 1944, Hitler placed him in charge of total mobilization.
     
    As Reichsminister for Propaganda and National Enlightenment, Goebbels was given complete control over radio, press, cinema, and theater; later he also regimented all German culture. Goebbels placed his undeniable intelligence and his brilliant insight into mass psychology entirely at the service of his party. His most virulent propaganda was against the Jews. As a hypnotic orator he was second only to Hitler, and in his staging of mass meetings and parades he was unsurpassed. Utterly cynical, he seems to have believed only in the self-justification of power. He remained loyal to Hitler until the end. On May 1, 1945, as Soviet troops were storming Berlin, Goebbels committed suicide.

    Listed below are the principles purported to summarize what made Goebbels tick or fail to tick. They may be thought of as his intellectual legacy. Whether the legacy has been reliably deduced is a methodological question. Whether it is valid is a psychological matter. Whether or when parts of it should be utilized in a democratic society are profound and disturbing problems of a political and ethical nature.
GOEBBELS' PRINCIPLES OF PROPAGANDA

                Based upon Goebbels' Principles of Propaganda by Leonard W. Doob, published in Public Opinion and Propaganda; A Book of Readings edited for The Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues.

1. Propagandist must have access to intelligence concerning events and public opinion.
 
    2. Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority.

        a. It must issue all the propaganda directives.

        b. It must explain propaganda directives to important officials and maintain their morale.

        c. It must oversee other agencies' activities which have propaganda consequences

    3. The propaganda consequences of an action must be considered in planning that action.
 
    4. Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and action.

        a. By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful intelligence

        b. By openly disseminating propaganda whose content or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired conclusions

        c. By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself

        d. By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity

    5. Declassified, operational information must be available to implement a propaganda campaign
 
    6. To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium.
 
    7. Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false.
 
    8. The purpose, content and effectiveness of enemy propaganda; the strength and effects of an expose; and the nature of current propaganda campaigns determine whether enemy propaganda should be ignored or refuted.
 
    9. Credibility, intelligence, and the possible effects of communicating determine whether propaganda materials should be censored.
 
    10. Material from enemy propaganda may be utilized in operations when it helps diminish that enemy's prestige or lends support to the propagandist's own objective.
 
    11. Black rather than white propaganda may be employed when the latter is less credible or produces undesirable effects.
 
    12. Propaganda may be facilitated by leaders with prestige.
 
    13. Propaganda must be carefully timed.

        a. The communication must reach the audience ahead of competing propaganda.

        b. A propaganda campaign must begin at the optimum moment

        c. A propaganda theme must be repeated, but not beyond some point of diminishing effectiveness

    14. Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans.

        a. They must evoke desired responses which the audience previously possesses

        b. They must be capable of being easily learned

        c. They must be utilized again and again, but only in appropriate situations

        d. They must be boomerang-proof

    15. Propaganda to the home front must prevent the raising of false hopes which can be blasted by future events.
 
    16. Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level.

        a. Propaganda must reinforce anxiety concerning the consequences of defeat

        b. Propaganda must diminish anxiety (other than concerning the consequences of defeat) which is too high and which cannot be reduced by people themselves

    17. Propaganda to the home front must diminish the impact of frustration.

        a. Inevitable frustrations must be anticipated

        b. Inevitable frustrations must be placed in perspective

    18. Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.
 
    19. Propaganda cannot immediately affect strong counter-tendencies; instead it must offer some form of action or diversion, or both.

[Rubystars]

I think JTF has an alliance with Pastor Manning

[Ben m]

I think JTF has an alliance with Pastor Manning

who is pastor manning?

[Ben m]

How exactly would you envision productively working together with a party like the PVV or, since you're an Israeli, how do you productively benefit HaYamin HaAmiti at this moment?

i am envisioning a productive work in the fields of propganda and information,demonstration,political education and ideological influence.

Maybe you can be the next Goebbels... You know he was Hitlers minister of Propaganda...

Paul Joseph Goebbels (pronounced /ˈɡɜrbəlz/, German: [ˈɡœbəls]; 29 October 1897 – 1 May 1945) was a German politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. As one of German dictator Adolf Hitler's closest associates and most devout followers, he was known for his zealous oratory and anti-Semitism. He was the chief architect of the Kristallnacht attack on the German Jews, which historians consider to be the beginning of the Final Solution, leading towards the genocide of the Holocaust.

http://www.psywarrior.com/Goebbels.html

Maybe this can be useful to you:

    In 1925 Goebbels met the party leader Adolf Hitler. In 1926 he was made Gauleiter, or party leader, for the region of Berlin, and in 1927 he founded and became editor of the official National Socialist periodical Der Angriff (The Attack). He was elected to the Reichstag, the German parliament, in 1928. By exploiting mob emotions and by employing all modern methods of propaganda Goebbels helped Hitler into power.
     
    His work as a propagandist materially aided Hitler's rise to power in 1933. When Hitler seized power in 1933, Goebbels was appointed Reichsminister for propaganda and national enlightenment. From then until his death, Goebbels used all media of education and communications to further Nazi propagandistic aims, instilling in the Germans the concept of their leader as a veritable G-d and of their destiny as the rulers of the world. In 1938 he became a member of the Hitler cabinet council. Late in World War II, in 1944, Hitler placed him in charge of total mobilization.
     
    As Reichsminister for Propaganda and National Enlightenment, Goebbels was given complete control over radio, press, cinema, and theater; later he also regimented all German culture. Goebbels placed his undeniable intelligence and his brilliant insight into mass psychology entirely at the service of his party. His most virulent propaganda was against the Jews. As a hypnotic orator he was second only to Hitler, and in his staging of mass meetings and parades he was unsurpassed. Utterly cynical, he seems to have believed only in the self-justification of power. He remained loyal to Hitler until the end. On May 1, 1945, as Soviet troops were storming Berlin, Goebbels committed suicide.

    Listed below are the principles purported to summarize what made Goebbels tick or fail to tick. They may be thought of as his intellectual legacy. Whether the legacy has been reliably deduced is a methodological question. Whether it is valid is a psychological matter. Whether or when parts of it should be utilized in a democratic society are profound and disturbing problems of a political and ethical nature.
GOEBBELS' PRINCIPLES OF PROPAGANDA

                Based upon Goebbels' Principles of Propaganda by Leonard W. Doob, published in Public Opinion and Propaganda; A Book of Readings edited for The Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues.

1. Propagandist must have access to intelligence concerning events and public opinion.
 
    2. Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority.

        a. It must issue all the propaganda directives.

        b. It must explain propaganda directives to important officials and maintain their morale.

        c. It must oversee other agencies' activities which have propaganda consequences

    3. The propaganda consequences of an action must be considered in planning that action.
 
    4. Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and action.

        a. By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful intelligence

        b. By openly disseminating propaganda whose content or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired conclusions

        c. By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself

        d. By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity

    5. Declassified, operational information must be available to implement a propaganda campaign
 
    6. To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium.
 
    7. Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false.
 
    8. The purpose, content and effectiveness of enemy propaganda; the strength and effects of an expose; and the nature of current propaganda campaigns determine whether enemy propaganda should be ignored or refuted.
 
    9. Credibility, intelligence, and the possible effects of communicating determine whether propaganda materials should be censored.
 
    10. Material from enemy propaganda may be utilized in operations when it helps diminish that enemy's prestige or lends support to the propagandist's own objective.
 
    11. Black rather than white propaganda may be employed when the latter is less credible or produces undesirable effects.
 
    12. Propaganda may be facilitated by leaders with prestige.
 
    13. Propaganda must be carefully timed.

        a. The communication must reach the audience ahead of competing propaganda.

        b. A propaganda campaign must begin at the optimum moment

        c. A propaganda theme must be repeated, but not beyond some point of diminishing effectiveness

    14. Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans.

        a. They must evoke desired responses which the audience previously possesses

        b. They must be capable of being easily learned

        c. They must be utilized again and again, but only in appropriate situations

        d. They must be boomerang-proof

    15. Propaganda to the home front must prevent the raising of false hopes which can be blasted by future events.
 
    16. Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level.

        a. Propaganda must reinforce anxiety concerning the consequences of defeat

        b. Propaganda must diminish anxiety (other than concerning the consequences of defeat) which is too high and which cannot be reduced by people themselves

    17. Propaganda to the home front must diminish the impact of frustration.

        a. Inevitable frustrations must be anticipated

        b. Inevitable frustrations must be placed in perspective

    18. Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.
 
    19. Propaganda cannot immediately affect strong counter-tendencies; instead it must offer some form of action or diversion, or both.

\
you see? we can always adapt his methods to enlighteen the people about the muslim question.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

No one except for Bnei Noach, and such alliance also has limits.

[cjd]

How exactly would you envision productively working together with a party like the PVV or, since you're an Israeli, how do you productively benefit HaYamin HaAmiti at this moment?

i am envisioning a productive work in the fields of propganda and information,demonstration,political education and ideological influence.

Maybe you can be the next Goebbels... You know he was Hitlers minister of Propaganda...

Paul Joseph Goebbels (pronounced /ˈɡɜrbəlz/, German: [ˈɡœbəls]; 29 October 1897 – 1 May 1945) was a German politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. As one of German dictator Adolf Hitler's closest associates and most devout followers, he was known for his zealous oratory and anti-Semitism. He was the chief architect of the Kristallnacht attack on the German Jews, which historians consider to be the beginning of the Final Solution, leading towards the genocide of the Holocaust.

http://www.psywarrior.com/Goebbels.html

Maybe this can be useful to you:

    In 1925 Goebbels met the party leader Adolf Hitler. In 1926 he was made Gauleiter, or party leader, for the region of Berlin, and in 1927 he founded and became editor of the official National Socialist periodical Der Angriff (The Attack). He was elected to the Reichstag, the German parliament, in 1928. By exploiting mob emotions and by employing all modern methods of propaganda Goebbels helped Hitler into power.
     
    His work as a propagandist materially aided Hitler's rise to power in 1933. When Hitler seized power in 1933, Goebbels was appointed Reichsminister for propaganda and national enlightenment. From then until his death, Goebbels used all media of education and communications to further Nazi propagandistic aims, instilling in the Germans the concept of their leader as a veritable G-d and of their destiny as the rulers of the world. In 1938 he became a member of the Hitler cabinet council. Late in World War II, in 1944, Hitler placed him in charge of total mobilization.
     
    As Reichsminister for Propaganda and National Enlightenment, Goebbels was given complete control over radio, press, cinema, and theater; later he also regimented all German culture. Goebbels placed his undeniable intelligence and his brilliant insight into mass psychology entirely at the service of his party. His most virulent propaganda was against the Jews. As a hypnotic orator he was second only to Hitler, and in his staging of mass meetings and parades he was unsurpassed. Utterly cynical, he seems to have believed only in the self-justification of power. He remained loyal to Hitler until the end. On May 1, 1945, as Soviet troops were storming Berlin, Goebbels committed suicide.

    Listed below are the principles purported to summarize what made Goebbels tick or fail to tick. They may be thought of as his intellectual legacy. Whether the legacy has been reliably deduced is a methodological question. Whether it is valid is a psychological matter. Whether or when parts of it should be utilized in a democratic society are profound and disturbing problems of a political and ethical nature.
GOEBBELS' PRINCIPLES OF PROPAGANDA

                Based upon Goebbels' Principles of Propaganda by Leonard W. Doob, published in Public Opinion and Propaganda; A Book of Readings edited for The Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues.

1. Propagandist must have access to intelligence concerning events and public opinion.
 
    2. Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority.

        a. It must issue all the propaganda directives.

        b. It must explain propaganda directives to important officials and maintain their morale.

        c. It must oversee other agencies' activities which have propaganda consequences

    3. The propaganda consequences of an action must be considered in planning that action.
 
    4. Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and action.

        a. By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful intelligence

        b. By openly disseminating propaganda whose content or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired conclusions

        c. By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself

        d. By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity

    5. Declassified, operational information must be available to implement a propaganda campaign
 
    6. To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium.
 
    7. Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false.
 
    8. The purpose, content and effectiveness of enemy propaganda; the strength and effects of an expose; and the nature of current propaganda campaigns determine whether enemy propaganda should be ignored or refuted.
 
    9. Credibility, intelligence, and the possible effects of communicating determine whether propaganda materials should be censored.
 
    10. Material from enemy propaganda may be utilized in operations when it helps diminish that enemy's prestige or lends support to the propagandist's own objective.
 
    11. Black rather than white propaganda may be employed when the latter is less credible or produces undesirable effects.
 
    12. Propaganda may be facilitated by leaders with prestige.
 
    13. Propaganda must be carefully timed.

        a. The communication must reach the audience ahead of competing propaganda.

        b. A propaganda campaign must begin at the optimum moment

        c. A propaganda theme must be repeated, but not beyond some point of diminishing effectiveness

    14. Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans.

        a. They must evoke desired responses which the audience previously possesses

        b. They must be capable of being easily learned

        c. They must be utilized again and again, but only in appropriate situations

        d. They must be boomerang-proof

    15. Propaganda to the home front must prevent the raising of false hopes which can be blasted by future events.
 
    16. Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level.

        a. Propaganda must reinforce anxiety concerning the consequences of defeat

        b. Propaganda must diminish anxiety (other than concerning the consequences of defeat) which is too high and which cannot be reduced by people themselves

    17. Propaganda to the home front must diminish the impact of frustration.

        a. Inevitable frustrations must be anticipated

        b. Inevitable frustrations must be placed in perspective

    18. Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.
 
    19. Propaganda cannot immediately affect strong counter-tendencies; instead it must offer some form of action or diversion, or both.

\
you see? we can always adapt his methods to enlighteen the people about the muslim question.

Goebbels was able to put principals like his into action because he had the full backing of the people in power to do it..... While I think its important to understand what made Goebbels tick I really don't think he is someone to be emulated. Some years back I found an old book in a yard sale called The Goebbels Diaries after reading it I came to the conclusion that this guy was one of the sickest birds in the Nazi cage. To some extent early on I think he may have even instigated Hitler to greater levels of stupidity and evil then he may have reached on his own. While some of his methods might have been effective in communicating with the masses I really would not want to look towards him for any guidance. If you can read Goebbels diary and still come back here and tell us that Goebbels and his methods are something we should consider using I think your wasting time here on a Jewish forum. At that point your either pulling our leg or trolling the form to make problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goebbels_Diaries
http://www.amazon.com/Goebbels-Diaries-1942-1943-Joseph/dp/0837138159

[Dr. Dan]

Pastor manning is a righteous BLACK minister.

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

No one except for Bnei Noach, and such alliance also has limits.

alliance maybe the wrong word, there is nothing wrong in having bilateral relationship. Read what the Chief Rabbinate of Israel has to say about there relations with Hindus..
" In keeping with the Delhi declaration, the participants reaffirmed their commitment to
deepening this bilateral relationship predicated on the recognition of One Supreme Being, Creator and Guide of the Cosmos; shared values; and similar historical experiences. The parties are committed to learning about one another on the basis of respect for the
particular identities of their respective communities and seeking, through their bilateral relationship, to be a blessing to all."
"It is recognized that the One Supreme Being, both in its formless and manifest aspects,
has been worshipped by Hindus over the millennia. This does not mean that Hindus
worship ‘gods’ and idols’. The Hindu relates to only the One Supreme Being when
he/she prays to a particular manifestation."

Having ties with Hindu Nationalists should be of no problem, since Hindu nationalists do not focus on Hinduism much, rather unity of Hindus as a political force for national integrity and security.
Read: Hindu Nationalism: What's Religion Got to Do With It?
http://www.apcss.org/Publications/Ocasional%20Papers/OPHinduNationalism.pdf

Also Israel has had trade relationship with India since the days of King Solomon..

anyways, with all said, the same cannot be said of other right wing orgs around the world.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

HZ, if you look carefully, the question of the thread is whether we should ally ourselves with other orgs, not trade nor arm.

[Ben m]

okay'i wiil propose this to chaim.

[Rubystars]

I think JTF has an alliance with Pastor Manning

who is pastor manning?

He's a smart Christian man with a ministry to the black community of Harlem (which he calls Atlah), and videos and a radio program which reach a greater audience. He promotes a healthier culture for blacks and opposes the evils of Obama. He also says things that are relevant to people of all races.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

I voted "yes" but I would only support such a relationship if the organization is pro-Israel or willing to become pro-Israel.

[Ben m]

בס''ד

I voted "yes" but I would only support such a relationship if the organization is pro-Israel or willing to become pro-Israel.

thank you chaim for your enlightening post.this is the answer to all the opposition here.