Italians and Jews: My two cents

[Ben m]

I hope this is the end of it. This thread has actually made me feel very sad.

I'm very happy to know that individuals who disagree with the JTF position are only speaking for themselves. Thank you Chaim, Lisa, Dr. Dan, Kahane was Right, and other level-headed folks for contributing good posts to this thread.

i am also agree this is the end of it.but we need to clrify the jtf postion on the definition of working togheter beacuse for me.it is a full fledged cooperation.

[christians4jews]

Muman wrote:

  

On another note, if someone here were to say "I don't hate Jews...I have deep problems with the religion, I think the Jewish members would be pretty offended.  It's certainly a dig.  Now with that being said, I'm not trying to sugarcoat the bad things done by Christians in the past in the name of Christianity.  I think everyone here will agree that what was done in the past to Jews was very bad.

I think this pretty much debunks kahane was right, muman and Ron point of view nicely.

BTW hindu zionist i was effectively accused as being a nazi by kahane was right, so please dont make out you were the only with the victim status. Being called a Nazi(although the sly lad will deny this) when you biblically believe you will be cursed for going against jews is very hurtful. Luckily i am a tough man, but there could be alot more sensative people on her ethat could have really effected them. Unfortunately he picked the wrong guy to battle with and i debunked him. Hopefully he will learn from the experience


I know this is a jewish forum, so i do not discuss theology etc. I think we should only discuss israel and its survival. I dont expect jews on here to to love everything christian and brown nose us. I am thinking from an un selfish point of view here, to expand this movement. If my rants made me more hated here so what. Ill sacrafice that if muman, Ron and kahane was right tone down their anti irrational, then i for one am happy.Means we will grow. I know muman's a jew, and Ron etc, i dont need some poorly used phrase "i have very deep issues" with christianity" to tell me hes a jew. If i was trying to covert him, or any of the other christians were trying to convert him then i think it would be fair game for him to use that phrase. But since i have seen nothing but chriatians supporting israel on here, i think we can all agree muman has to keep his anti christian vibe to himself if we want this forum growing.

Anyway sometimes people on here need to hulk up. We need to discuss these things, if we didnt then we would not evolve as a movement.


Anyway i think in the mean time this topic been done, i do think its been constructive though. So this is my last post on this thread.

We have some very exciting times, the great chaim and david have done some epic english vids. So i can see JTF hit new heights, which is what WE ALL WANT...

[JTFenthusiast2]

You're welcome Rubystars.  I know you didn't thank me, but as usual I have taken up for you and you're silence is notable.  You only tend to thank people you perceive as righteous.  Point noted again and again

[Rubystars]

You're welcome Rubystars.  I know you didn't thank me, but as usual I have taken up for you and you're silence is notable.  You only tend to thank people you perceive as righteous.  Point noted again and again

Thank you for your help JTFenthusiast. I'm sorry I missed mentioning you specifically. You did help quite a bit. I might have missed other people too and if I did I'm sorry to them too.

[Ben m]

You're welcome Rubystars.  I know you didn't thank me, but as usual I have taken up for you and you're silence is notable.  You only tend to thank people you perceive as righteous.  Point noted again and again

Thank you for your help JTFenthusiast. I'm sorry I missed mentioning you specifically. You did help quite a bit. I might have missed other people too and if I did I'm sorry to them too.

don't worry i did this to free.

[Rubystars]

Thanks Ben M.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

But my parents (obm) taught me to always respect other people and their religion, even if we don't agree with it. My father would remind me how I felt when those Irish Catholic girls beat me up and called me 'christ killer'; he said that should make me realize that if I don't want it done to me, I should be careful not to do that to someone else.

It's good you admit you don't really care about Christians but you're just afraid of them. Really isn't surprising for a "religious" Jew who still lives in the Galut.

[Rubystars]

Anyone who accuses a Jewish person of being a Christ killer needs the [censored] beaten out of them.

[nessuno]

But my parents (obm) taught me to always respect other people and their religion, even if we don't agree with it. My father would remind me how I felt when those Irish Catholic girls beat me up and called me 'christ killer'; he said that should make me realize that if I don't want it done to me, I should be careful not to do that to someone else.

It's good you admit you don't really care about Christians but you're just afraid of them. Really isn't surprising for a "religious" Jew who still lives in the Galut.

Come on, Ron.    That is not what JewishAmericanPatriot meant, and you know it.  Now you are going to attack all the Jewish members that live in America.  You do really need to grow up.  Besides, not everyone can just move to Israel.  Even if in their heart they want to.  You might realize that when you are older and responsible to people beside yourself.  That response was very disappointing.

[mord]

Ron i'm really not afraid of anyone believe me,i'm afraid of G-D i just have many non Jewish friends who i like and they have no hatred for Jews

[Ben m]

But my parents (obm) taught me to always respect other people and their religion, even if we don't agree with it. My father would remind me how I felt when those Irish Catholic girls beat me up and called me 'christ killer'; he said that should make me realize that if I don't want it done to me, I should be careful not to do that to someone else.

It's good you admit you don't really care about Christians but you're just afraid of them. Really isn't surprising for a "religious" Jew who still lives in the Galut.

Come on, Ron.    That is not what JewishAmericanPatriot meant, and you know it.  Now you are going to attack all the Jewish members that live in America.  You do really need to grow up.  Not everyone can just move to Israel.  Even if in their heart they want to.  You might realize that when you are older and responsible to people beside yourself.  That response was very disappointing.

agree.ron you realy need to grow up andstop this paranoia.

[muman613]

Muman wrote:

  

On another note, if someone here were to say "I don't hate Jews...I have deep problems with the religion, I think the Jewish members would be pretty offended.  It's certainly a dig.  Now with that being said, I'm not trying to sugarcoat the bad things done by Christians in the past in the name of Christianity.  I think everyone here will agree that what was done in the past to Jews was very bad.

I think this pretty much debunks kahane was right, muman and Ron point of view nicely.

BTW hindu zionist i was effectively accused as being a nazi by kahane was right, so please dont make out you were the only with the victim status. Being called a Nazi(although the sly lad will deny this) when you biblically believe you will be cursed for going against jews is very hurtful. Luckily i am a tough man, but there could be alot more sensative people on her ethat could have really effected them. Unfortunately he picked the wrong guy to battle with and i debunked him. Hopefully he will learn from the experience


I know this is a jewish forum, so i do not discuss theology etc. I think we should only discuss israel and its survival. I dont expect jews on here to to love everything christian and brown nose us. I am thinking from an un selfish point of view here, to expand this movement. If my rants made me more hated here so what. Ill sacrafice that if muman, Ron and kahane was right tone down their anti irrational, then i for one am happy.Means we will grow. I know muman's a jew, and Ron etc, i dont need some poorly used phrase "i have very deep issues" with christianity" to tell me hes a jew. If i was trying to covert him, or any of the other christians were trying to convert him then i think it would be fair game for him to use that phrase. But since i have seen nothing but chriatians supporting israel on here, i think we can all agree muman has to keep his anti christian vibe to himself if we want this forum growing.

Anyway sometimes people on here need to hulk up. We need to discuss these things, if we didnt then we would not evolve as a movement.


Anyway i think in the mean time this topic been done, i do think its been constructive though. So this is my last post on this thread.

We have some very exciting times, the great chaim and david have done some epic english vids. So i can see JTF hit new heights, which is what WE ALL WANT...

c4j,

What was said does not 'debunk' anything I have said. The fact of the matter is that Italy had a horrible history of the treatment of Jews. Maybe you really want to debunk the facts, but believe me bro, you will not succeed. History clearly records that there were Jews kept in a Ghetto by the Vatican, that the church intended on burning the Jewish ghetto to the ground, and that various popes through history imposed laws on the Jews intended to break them such as having to wear a yellow star and to only work in certain fields.

Do you contest what I have said? If you do I would like to debate you full steam ahead. Either you did not learn history, or you are obstinant and pig-headed.

The only thing I have said in this thread concerning Italians is that their history of treatment of Jews is pathetic {up till this last century}.

Chew on that for a few before replying c4j...


My 1st post on this topic @ http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,46655.msg445462.html#msg445462

Italian Catholicism is very much anti-Jew... I dont think that every Italian is a Catholic though...

learn a little history of the Jews in Italy @ http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,46680.new.html#new


PS: I repeat that Italian Americans are some of the best, hard-working Americans around. But I still have reservations about Italy, and those whose beliefs may have led to the murder and oppression of the Jewish people.

[Rubystars]

There were horrible, absolutely horrible things done by both the RCC and Protestant branch-offs, as well as Orthodox churches. This is a fact of history. However Christians on JTF do not identify with anti-Semitism and we are equally appalled by evil people and evil behavior. We don't deserve to be accused of these types of sentiments when we have stated by supporting JTF that we do not agree with them.

[muman613]

There were horrible, absolutely horrible things done by both the RCC and Protestant branch-offs, as well as Orthodox churches. This is a fact of history. However Christians on JTF do not identify with anti-Semitism and we are equally appalled by evil people and evil behavior. We don't deserve to be accused of these types of sentiments when we have stated by supporting JTF that we do not agree with them.

Rubystars,

Please understand that I am not pointing fingers or accusing anyone today of these crimes. I just want it to be known that history has a tendency to repeat itself... Not a single JTF member in good standing {meaning they have been around a while, and posted a lot} do I consider to be an enemy of mine, nor do I harbor any resentment for the treatment of the past.

In my personal case I am a Jew of Ukranian/Polish extraction... Both the Ukraine and Poland both have horrible histories of treatment of Jews. As a result I will never forgive Polish/Ukranian nationals who still to this day harbor antisemitism..

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Regarding J4J, the JTF position on this is clear, I believe Chaim will once again say that Missionaries are viewed as evil by the Jewish people. We have every right to celebrate the death of a murderer of Jewish souls. I believe Chaim himself posted that he was happy that that evil man died.

What does J4J have to do with the Christians on JTF?

Because the C4J complained about Muman's celebrating the death of the vile J4J criminal.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

khahane was right bt.stop attacking christia4jews.he is one of our greatest memeber.if you had something usefull to say so say it.nobobdy here want to hear your smearings.

LOL.  This is called the pot calling the kettle black.

As a product of your age and immaturity level, you can only see things as black and white - as "he is my ally, and he is my enemy."  And everything else goes out the window.   Take the time to read the posts and you will see I was called names and accused of things that I never did.   You expect me to take that lying down and not defend myself?   Once again you fail to comprehend the values of JTF, and that includes Jewish right to self-defense.  I'm not going to let someone slander me and then not talk back because I'm afraid of "upsetting" his feelings, or because some clown teenager is going to say "But we made a pact, don't say bad things at him."   

You two are like peas in a pod btw.   Did you bring him from gym class?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I should we should follow Chaim's lead here.  I and other people have said this before, this is coalition work, if we have nothing to say that is nice about someone's deeply felt religious ideas, we should say nothing.  Obviously this doesn't apply to things like missionizing, but this approaching ever increasing levels of toxicity to this forum.

I believe I am following Chaim's lead here, and I think all the people in this thread can basically move on and work together with one exception, there's a fly in the soup.

sorry? this is the worst divissvness i ever saw.yes there is a fly here and it is you.

Wow, what insight!   Next you'll say to me:  "I know you are but what am I."   

Look ben, I understand that you're a little kid, but try not to act like it here.   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Muman wrote:

  

On another note, if someone here were to say "I don't hate Jews...I have deep problems with the religion, I think the Jewish members would be pretty offended.  It's certainly a dig.  Now with that being said, I'm not trying to sugarcoat the bad things done by Christians in the past in the name of Christianity.  I think everyone here will agree that what was done in the past to Jews was very bad.

I think this pretty much debunks kahane was right, muman and Ron point of view nicely.

What's my point of view?  Quote me.

After quoting me, explain how my view, and what view exactly, is "debunked."   Can an opinion be "debunked" ?   You obviously don't grasp the English language very well.

BTW hindu zionist i was effectively accused as being a nazi by kahane was right,

False.  Lie.

Quote me.

so please dont make out you were the only with the victim status. Being called a Nazi(although the sly lad will deny this) 

Anyone would deny if they are accused of something they didn't do.  So to predict this did not take a genius.

Unfortunately he picked the wrong guy to battle with and i debunked him. Hopefully he will learn from the experience 

Come again?

if muman, Ron and kahane was right tone down their anti irrational,

Obviously English is not your native language, but you'll have to provide us with a translation of anti irrational.

Anyway sometimes people on here need to hulk up. We need to discuss these things, if we didnt then we would not evolve as a movement. 

Oh, I see.  We need to discuss, except for the people you don't like.  Namely, religious Jews not named Chaim.

So this is my last post on this thread.

A cowardly move to attack me and say it's your last post.  I  expect nothing more than such cowardice from you.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

There were horrible, absolutely horrible things done by both the RCC and Protestant branch-offs, as well as Orthodox churches. This is a fact of history. However Christians on JTF do not identify with anti-Semitism and we are equally appalled by evil people and evil behavior. We don't deserve to be accused of these types of sentiments when we have stated by supporting JTF that we do not agree with them.

Good point.

[JewishAmericanPatriot]

But my parents (obm) taught me to always respect other people and their religion, even if we don't agree with it. My father would remind me how I felt when those Irish Catholic girls beat me up and called me 'christ killer'; he said that should make me realize that if I don't want it done to me, I should be careful not to do that to someone else.

It's good you admit you don't really care about Christians but you're just afraid of them. Really isn't surprising for a "religious" Jew who still lives in the Galut.

When did I say I really don't care about Christians? I most certainly do. I respect all people who are decent, and who respect me and what I am. Naturally I don't give respect to someone who is abusive to others.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

To summarize,
I'm not going to speak for other people, but it's clear to me that a certain person (possibly 2 if they're not the same person) here would like to silence me.   All I can say to that is, keep dreaming.   I will only get louder.

[Lisa]

I think we all got this off our chests.  So can we all just agree to disagree on certain issues, and just move on?  Please don't make me lock this thread. 

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I think this pretty much debunks kahane was right, muman and Ron point of view nicely.

How does that "dubunk" my point view? you have never heard the points, explanations, examples or any other part of my ideas and if you think Lisa's comment "debunks" (without no Halachic basis added it) my point of view, you really need a lesson in logic (and English).

[syyuge]

To summarize,
I'm not going to speak for other people, but it's clear to me that a certain person (possibly 2 if they're not the same person) here would like to silence me.   All I can say to that is, keep dreaming.   I will only get louder.

I dreamed that you are getting louder. 

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

But my parents (obm) taught me to always respect other people and their religion, even if we don't agree with it. My father would remind me how I felt when those Irish Catholic girls beat me up and called me 'christ killer'; he said that should make me realize that if I don't want it done to me, I should be careful not to do that to someone else.

It's good you admit you don't really care about Christians but you're just afraid of them. Really isn't surprising for a "religious" Jew who still lives in the Galut.

When did I say I really don't care about Christians? I most certainly do. I respect all people who are decent, and who respect me and what I am. Naturally I don't give respect to someone who is abusive to others.

You decided to "not respect" other religions after 2 Christian kids beat you up?...