Author Topic: "Chaim Ben Pesach laughs at the flotilla killing" - Peace Now smear video  (Read 10724 times)

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Online Chaim Ben Pesach

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I really think that the traitors of "Peace Now" are just helping us by giving us more publicity.


Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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I really think that the traitors of "Peace Now" are just helping us by giving us more publicity.



Definitely.   Israelis would love to hear of a Jewish politician laughing at the flotilla slaying of terrorists.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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"Peace Now" is making a fool of itself. It is just impossible for a sane person to qualify the JTF video as "Nazi" as these idiots claim.

Offline Ben m

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I really think that the traitors of "Peace Now" are just helping us by giving us more publicity.


i think this is a very bad publicity.do you remember valeric form the hebrew forum right? he learned of us from a movie made on us by uzi zalcha yimach shmo vezichro.
enemies:negroes,musulmans and commies/liberals.
alleis:israel,united states,canada,european union,greater serbia,russia,australia and new zealand and japan/south korea and india.togheter we maight win this war.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Ben, it's great publicity
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Dr. Dan

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my response:

Killing Nazis is a wonderful thing...We should do unto them what they want to do to us.  The flotilla people yelled back at the Israelis to "Go back to Aushwitz" and "Remember 9/11". 

But it doesn't surprise me that you idiots want to kill Jews too..So, I say when we find you, off with your heads!
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline TruthSpreader

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Thank you, you Peace Now nazi scum.

Dan - Stay calm and be brave in order to judge correctly and make the right decision

Offline eb22

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While I'm glad that JTF is getting more publicity,    there are no words to describe how despicable "  Peace Now "  is.
"Israel's leaders seem to be more afraid of Obama than they are of G-d. Now we're getting to the real root of the problem. Secular politics won't save Israel. Denying the divine nature of the Jewish State has brought Israel neither stability nor peace. When that changes Israel will finally be blessed with both in abundance"-----------NormanF   ( Posted on Israel Matzav's Blog )

.....................................................................

http://jtf.org/

Offline muman613

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While I'm glad that JTF is getting more publicity,    there are no words to describe how despicable "  Peace Now "  is.

Peace now gives Peace a bad name... I wish they would change their name because I am a person who believes that Peace is only possible when we all accept Hashem as the only creator and only savior. The Peace which peace now is pushing is a peace which will result in more death and destruction to Jews around the world.

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The soul of every living being shall bless Your Name, L-rd, our G-d; and the spirit of all flesh shall always glorify and exalt Your remembrance, our King. From the beginning to the end of the world You are Almighty G-d; and other than You we have no King, Redeemer and Savior who delivers, rescues, sustains, answers and is merciful in every time of trouble and distress; we have no King but You.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

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"There is no 'Palestine' on the map and Israel knows that you're full of jack"

Such great lyrics  :)

Offline Aces High

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I think the killings are funny.

Offline muman613

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I think the killings are funny.

I dont find this humorous, but it is laughable..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

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Offline muman613

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I think the killings are funny.

I dont find this humorous,



Why not?

I am not talking about the video, I did not watch it...

But killing people is not a fun kind of thing. It is something which we must do in order to protect ourselves but I don't believe that Jews should ever take pleasure in killing a human being. I know that many may disagree with me but I firmly believe that killing should always be a last resort after all attempts at peace have failed.

What is laughable about the entire event is that the islamic terrorists on board got their wish of being made into martyrs. I have said that I would gladly make as many Islamists into martyrs as I can while I live... All those who want to die for Allah should be lined up and shot..

PS: I realize that I have expressed a desire to kill with my hands a Nazi or a Muslim antisemite... But I do so only in the desire to rid the world of the obvious evil which these two kinds of humans embody.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

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But killing people is not a fun kind of thing. It is something which we must to in order to protect ourselves but I don't believe that Jews should ever take pleasure in killing a human being.


Jews are celebrating the death of their enemies from the Paraoh and his army to Haman the Persian Hitler. Every day in Shacharit we celebrate the death of our enemies in past.

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I know that many may disagree with me but I firmly believe that killing should always be a last resort after all attempts at peace have failed.

This is not a Jewish way of thinking but a Christian one - "Just War" by the RCC.

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What is laughable about the entire event is that the islamic terrorists on board got their wish of being made into martyrs. I have said that I would gladly make as many Islamists into martyrs as I can while I live... All those who want to die for Allah should be lined up and shot..

I agree.

Offline muman613

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But killing people is not a fun kind of thing. It is something which we must to in order to protect ourselves but I don't believe that Jews should ever take pleasure in killing a human being.


Jews are celebrating the death of their enemies from the Paraoh and his army to Haman the Persian Hitler. Every day in Shacharit we celebrate the death of our enemies in past.

Quote
I know that many may disagree with me but I firmly believe that killing should always be a last resort after all attempts at peace have failed.

This is not a Jewish way of thinking but a Christian one - "Just War" by the RCC.

Quote
What is laughable about the entire event is that the islamic terrorists on board got their wish of being made into martyrs. I have said that I would gladly make as many Islamists into martyrs as I can while I live... All those who want to die for Allah should be lined up and shot..

I agree.

http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/avot/10avot.htm



II. What Does Shemuel Add?

Shemuel's statement is unique among all the other mishnayot in Pirkei Avot in that he merely cites a pasuk from Mishlei, without adding any explanation or commentary. Evidently, he felt that the theme contained in the pasuk was so crucial that it bore constant reiteration, and he would therefore cite this proverb often. The pasuk in Mishlei (24:17-18) reads: "When your enemy falters do not rejoice (bi-nfol oivekha al tismach), and when he stumbles do not feel glee (u-ve-koshlo al yagel libekha), lest Hashem notice and disapprove (pen yireh Hashem ve-ra be-einav), and avert His anger from him (ve-heishiv mei-alav apo)." This pasuk, which warns against triumphant celebration at our enemies' demise, raises numerous moral and theological questions. Perhaps the most famous application of this theme occurs on Pesach, when we refrain from reciting full hallel on the seventh day (and, by extension, during Chol Ha-mo'ed) since the Egyptians drowned on that day. As the gemara in Sanhedrin (39b) narrates, Hashem told the angels who wished to recite hallel at the time of keri'at Yam Suf, "My creatures are drowning at sea, and you will recite hallel to me?" Based on this gemara, the Shulchan Arukh (O.C. 490) rules that only half-hallel is recited after the first day of Pesach. (Recently, with the welcome death of Yasser Arafat - a murderer responsible for the brutal death of thousands of innocent Jews - this question resurfaced.)



http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/war3.html

 B. Seeking Peace Prior to Starting War

Two basic texts form Jewish law's understanding of the duties society must undertake before a battle may be fought. The Bible (Deuternomy 20:10) states:

When you approach a city to do battle with it you should call to it in peace. And if they respond in peace and they open the city to you, and all the people in the city shall pay taxes to you and be subservient. And if they do not make peace with you, you shall wage war with them and you may besiege them.

Thus the Bible clearly sets out the obligation to seek peace as a prelude to any military activity; absent the seeking of peace, the use of force in a war violates Jewish law. Although unstated in the text, it is apparent that while one need not engage in negotiations over the legitimacy of one's goals, one must explain what one is seeking through this military action and what military goals are (and are not) sought.35 Before this seeking of peace, battle is prohibited. Rabbi Jesse Hagalili is quoted as stating "How meritorious is peace? Even in a time of war one must initiate all activities with a request for peace"36 This procedural requirement is quite significant: it prevents the escalation of hostilities and allows both sides to rationally plan the cost of war and the virtues of peace.

Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki (Rashi), in his commentary on the Bible, indicates that the obligation to seek peace prior to firing the first shot is limited to Authorized wars. However, in Obligatory or Compulsory wars there is no obligation to seek a peaceful solution. Indeed, such a position can be found in the Sifri, one of oldest of the midrashic source books of Jewish law.37 Maimonides, in his classic code of Jewish law disagrees. He states:

One does not wage war with anyone in the world until one seeks peace with him. Thus is true both of authorized and obligatory wars, as it says [in the Bible] "when you approach a city to wage war, you must first call out for peace." If they respond positively and accept the seven Noachide commandments, one may not kill any of them and they shall pay tribute ...

Thus according to Maimonides the obligation to seek peace applies to all circumstances where war is to be waged. Such an approach is also agreed to in principle by Nachmanides.38

It is clear, however, according to both schools of thought, that in Authorized wars one must initially seek a negotiated settlement of the cause of the war (although, it is crucial to add, Jewish law does not require that each side compromise its claim, so as to reach a peaceful solution).39 Ancillary to this obligation is the need that the goal of the war be communicated to one's opponents. One must detail to one enemies the basic goals of the war, and what one seeks as a victory in this conflict.40 This allows one's opponents to evaluate the costs of the war and to seek a rationale peace. Peace must be genuinely sought before war may begin.

There is a fundamental secondary dispute present in this obligation. Maimonides requires that the peaceful surrender terms offered must include an acknowledgement of and agreement to follow the seven laws of Noah, which (Jewish law asserts) govern all members of the world and form the basic groundwork for moral behavior;41 part and parcel of the peace must be the imposition of ethical values on the defeated society. Nachmanides does not list that requirement as being necessary for the "peaceful" cessation of hostilities.42 He indicates that it is the military goals alone which determine whether peace terms are acceptable. According to Nachmanides, Jewish law would compel the "victor" to accept peace terms which include all of the victors' demands except the imposition of ethical values in the defeated society; Maimonides would reject that rule and permit war in those circumstances purely to impose ethical value in a non-ethical society.43
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 05:54:08 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Aces High

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The reason the Jew Haters say we we laugh at the killings is so that we don't defend our selves in the future, for fear of what they will say.  I persoally don't care what they say.   These antisemites have no value.   And I'm sure Chaim is not concerned about their comments, when it comes to saving Jewish lives.

Offline muman613

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I think that a person who has witnessed opression and subjugation at the hands of the enemy are allowed to rejoice in their defeat. This is one reason my Rabbis have excused my rage against Islam... They have said that since my brother was a victim that I have a right to hold onto my rage... And the Children of Israel at the seashore were allowed to rejoice in the drowning of the Mitzrim because they were oppressed and tortured by them...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

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I think that a person who has witnessed opression and subjugation at the hands of the enemy are allowed to rejoice in their defeat. This is one reason my Rabbis have excused my rage against Islam... They have said that since my brother was a victim that I have a right to hold onto my rage... And the Children of Israel at the seashore were allowed to rejoice in the drowning of the Mitzrim because they were oppressed and tortured by them...

You have a right not only to rage against them but to have revenge against them. It's really too bad that the US government doesn't let the families of the victims destroy at least one mosque or one Muslim for every victim murdered by Muslims.

Offline muman613

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Here is a discussion of this question, about rejoicing over the defeat of enemies:



http://www.shemayisrael.com/Parasha/kahn/archives/beshalach68.htm

Torah Attitude: Parashas Beshalach: My enemy's pain is not my gain
December 23, 2007


Summary

There are many groups both in Israel and abroad who promote peace at any price. The angel that was leading the Jewish people through the wilderness blocked the Egyptians from attacking. As the Egyptians drown, the angels are rebuked for singing. On the seventh and eighth days of Pesach, we omit part of Hallel to commemorate that the Egyptians drowned at the sea. There were no atrocities that the Egyptians had not been willing to inflict on the Jewish people. All humans are created in the image of G'd. Abraham was the great lover of all people. The Jewish soldier kills if necessary but is distressed by killing. Jews do not rejoice when their enemy falls. To this very day, we omit parts of the Hallel on Pesach because the Egyptians fell at the sea.

Peace at any price

As the Israeli and Palestinian negotiators meet to try and work out a peace plan, the Jewish people are under tremendous pressure from the nations of the world. Even within the Jewish nation itself we find many groups both in Israel and abroad who promote peace at any price. These groups are guided by humanitarian principles and many Israelis are simply tired of facing the possibility of more wars. How well-meaning these groups may be, they lack the understanding of the enemy that the Jewish people is up against. Additionally, since these groups are run by secular leaders, they do not avail themselves of what the Torah teaches about our attitude and conduct towards our enemies.

Pillar of cloud

In this week's Torah portion, we read how G'd leads the Jewish people through the wilderness after they have been sent out of Egypt. When Pharaoh is informed that the Jews have escaped, he gathers his army and pursues them. The Egyptian chariots chase after the Jewish people and reach them as the camp by the sea. The angel that has been leading the Jewish people through the wilderness, in the form of the pillar of cloud, goes between the two camps and blocks the Egyptians from attacking. The Torah (Shemos 14:20) describes the scene and writes, "And [The angel of G'd] came between the camp of Egypt and the camp of Israel and there were cloud and darkness [for the Egyptians - Rashi] while it illuminated the night [for the Jews - Rashi] and one did not draw near the other all the night."

Angels stop singing

The Talmud (Sanhedrin 39b) teaches that when it says that "one did not draw near the other all the night" it refers, on a deeper level, to the angels. They wanted to sing G'd's praises when the Egyptians were drowned as the sea walls collapsed back on them. G'd rebuked the angels and said, "My handiwork [the Egyptians] is drowning in the sea, and you utter song before Me?!" On hearing this rebuke, the angels stopped singing and did not "draw near" each other all night.

Hallel

Every Festival, the Jewish people sing praises to G'd when we say Hallel. However, on the last six days of Pesach, two paragraphs are omitted. This is to express that our happiness is not complete on these days. On the seventh and eighth days of Pesach, we omit this part of Hallel to commemorate that the Egyptians drowned at the sea and G'd was saddened by their death. Since the seventh and eighth days are more festive than the intermediate days, we omit this part on those days as well.

Merciless Egyptians

This seems strange. The Egyptians were chasing after the Jewish people like wild animals. Earlier, they had mercilessly drowned the Jewish baby boys in the Nile River. They had used the bodies of Jewish children to fill the spaces in the walls of their pyramids. There were no atrocities that the Egyptians had not been willing to inflict on the Jewish people. So why was G'd saddened when the Egyptians drowned in the sea? Did they not deserve this punishment?

Image of G'd

We may find the answer to G'd's sadness in the words of Rabbi Akiva (Pirkei Avos 3:14) "Precious is the human being, who was created in the image [of G'd], as it is says, 'for in the image of G'd He made man' (Bereishis 9:6)". Not only the Jewish people are created in the image of G'd, but all humans. G'd feels for every individual, Jewish or not. In this spirit the sages taught "Be the first to greet everyone" (Pirkei Avos 4:15). The Talmud (Berachot 17a) relates that the great Rabbi Yochanan Ben Zakai would always be the first to greet everyone, even when he met a gentile in the street. Once we realize that every person we meet, both Jew and gentile, is someone created in the image of G'd, then we will no doubt treat them with the proper respect.

Abraham, the great lover of people

We learn an amazing lesson from our great ancestor Abraham that shows to what extent we should strive to look upon and treat others with a positive attitude. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah represented some of the worst excesses of human selfishness. It was a crime in Sodom and Gomorrah to give charity. G'd was so outraged by the wickedness of these people that He decided to destroy them with a shower of fire and brimstone. On the other hand, our Patriarch Abraham was the epitome of lovingkindness. While suffering from excruciating pain, he interrupted a Divine revelation to run out, into the scorching desert, to greet three strangers and attend to their needs. We would imagine that Abraham would be only too happy upon hearing that G'd planned to destroy these towns and kill all the inhabitants. However, when G'd told Abraham that He was about to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham pleaded with G'd to find a way to prevent this destruction. Abraham's prayer was a pure act of lovingkindness. He cared for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah with no expectation of receiving anything from them in return. It did not matter that Sodom and Gomorrah did just the opposite of everything that Abraham taught and believed in. In his greatness Abraham was able to look past the exterior of his opponents and saw the image of G'd in everyone. As Abraham's descendants we carry his greatness in our genes and have within us the potential to emulate his high level of lovingkindness.

Jacob, the ideal Jewish soldier

The Talmud (Sanhedrin 72a) teaches us that if someone comes to kill a person, he should kill the murderer first. If the option is to kill or be killed, there is no choice. However, one still has a choice of what kind of attitude and feeling one maintains at the time when one has to take the life of one's attacker. We learn the proper Jewish attitude in such a situation from our Patriarch, Jacob. The Torah tells us that when Jacob was about to return to the land of Israel, Esau headed towards him and his family with an army of four hundred men. At that point, says the Torah (Bereishis 32:8), "Jacob became very frightened, and it distressed him." We need to understand why the Torah tells us that Jacob was both frightened and distressed. Rashi quotes from the Midrash that, first of all, Jacob was frightened as it seemed that Esau was coming to kill him and his family. But at that same time, Jacob was distressed that he might have to kill Esau or some of his men in order to defend himself. Jacob here taught us that the Jewish warrior should be distressed by the necessity of killing his enemy. As his descendants, we also carry his attitude in our genes and have the capacity to follow in his footsteps with a high esteem for every human life.

The fallen enemy

King Solomon summarizes the proper Jewish attitude towards our enemies: "Don't rejoice when your enemy falls. Don't let your heart be glad when he is overthrown" (Mishlei 24:17). Does this mean that we, as Jews, are obligated be kind to our enemies and give them whatever they ask for, even when they plan to kill us? Definitely not! The Torah instructs us to defend ourselves through whatever actions may be necessary, including to be the first one to attack. In the case of our arch enemy Amalek, the Torah even commands that we annihilate any physical presence of them and erase their memory from the face of the earth (see Devarim 25:19). But the Jewish soldier does not rejoice when his enemy falls. Rather, the Jewish soldier feels pain that it is necessary to kill someone created in G'd's image.

Conclusion

This is what the Torah teaches us. Do whatever you have to, to defend and protect yourself. But do it with a heavy heart, as it may cost human lives, and every human being is created in G'd's image. Abraham pleaded with G'd not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, even though they represented the exact opposite of everything that Abraham lived for. Jacob was distressed at the thought of killing his brother and his men, although they came to kill him. To this very day, we omit parts of the Hallel on Pesach because the Egyptians fell at the sea. In this way, we join G'd in His pain that it is necessary to destroy one of His creations. And thus we move closer to G'd and to our purpose in life, to be a light unto the nations of the world.

These words were based on a talk given by Rabbi Avraham Kahn, the Rosh Yeshiva and Founder of Yeshivas Keser Torah in Toronto.

Shalom. Michael Deverett
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Peace Now's funding comes from non-Jewish foreign governments.  They could hardly be described as a "Jewish" movement.  They are as kosher as a ham sandwich.
"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

"When we tell the Arab, ‘Come, I want to help you and see to your needs,’ he doesn’t look at us like gentlemen. He sees weakness and then the wolf shows what he can do.” - Maimonides

 “I am all peace, but when I speak, they are for war.” -Psalms 120:7

"The difference between a Jewish liberal and a Jewish conservative is that when a Jewish liberal walks out of the Holocaust Museum, he feels, "This shows why we need to have more tolerance and multiculturalism." The Jewish conservative feels, "We should have killed a lot more Nazis, and sooner."" - Philip Klein

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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As to rejoicing over enemies, let's keep in mind that angels are not humans, and it was the angels who were condemned for rejoicing.

Let's also keep in mind that we sing the song of the sea which talks about our enemies drowning, every day. 

Let us further consider that hallel is instituted in a defeat of our enemies who seek our destruction and we are saved by Hashem when the enemies are killed.

Modern Jewish liberalism has no answer for the above facts.

As I've heard Rabbi Bar Hayim explain in a shiur where he examined various sources related to this subject, it may be true that based on various sources we should temper our celebration and not get carried away with it when our enemies die, but certainly we are allowed and encouraged to celebrate.

Offline CorrieDeservedIt

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anything involving a dead muslim arab or their helpers (so called child and woman included) would make me laugh to. They aren't exposing anything...:/

Offline wonga66

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I remember seeing Rav Kahane and Kachniks in 1984 walking down Dizengoff in Tel Aviv, and an old Holocaust couple screaming at him "Attah Nazi! Attah Nazi!".

For a Jew to be called a "Nazi" is a privilege and an excellent sign!

Remember: the very concept of genocide -the extermination of an entire people - which didn't exist before, is an unnatural G-dly concept and comes straight from the Torah (viz.the genocide of Amolek: men, women, children and animals!).

The Germans reversed this, and turned it in to the genocide of the Jews, as planned by Hashem.

There is a connection between Torah and Nazism: see the article "The Master Race and the Chosen People" (Rabbi Yaakov Feitman, "A Path Through the Ashes", p 109, Artscroll)

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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I remember seeing Rav Kahane and Kachniks in 1984 walking down Dizengoff in Tel Aviv, and an old Holocaust couple screaming at him "Attah Nazi! Attah Nazi!".

For a Jew to be called a "Nazi" is a privilege and an excellent sign! 

No it isn't.  It means that the accusers are completely twisted and perverse.

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Remember: the very concept of genocide -the extermination of an entire people - which didn't exist before, is an unnatural G-dly concept and comes straight from the Torah (viz.the genocide of Amolek: men, women, children and animals!). 

This is not coherent.


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The Germans reversed this, and turned it in to the genocide of the Jews, as planned by Hashem.

Incoherent yet again.   This is nonsense.   One thing has nothing to do with the other.

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There is a connection between Torah and Nazism: see the article "The Master Race and the Chosen People" (Rabbi Yaakov Feitman, "A Path Through the Ashes", p 109, Artscroll)

Quote the article or go home.   Even if you quote it, if it DOES say what you suggest (which I doubt - and that's why I'm asking you to quote it exactly here), I still disagree strongly with these warped suggestions.