My Stance on Homosexuals/Homosexuality (from Eminem thread)

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I use quotation marks for fix because I've heard from a psychologist that sexual orientation is *extememly* difficult to change.  Also, I used to know many gay men, back from when I was in college.  They always told me that they knew since they were little, that they were "different." 

In Israel, there are religious organization that do that and accomplish the goal of changing gay Jews with almost no exception.

All men are created different in their psychology. They maybe felt attracted to something different, "exotic", but homosexuality was NEVER proven to be "natural" or genetic or whatever. There are many famous cases of even pedophiles who changed their orientation.

As for your friend, who's now "straight," perhaps he's not giving in to his urges, or he's gone back into the closet.  That doesn't make him straight. 

This is rather a speculation than argument. Prove it.

[Yaakov Mendel]

I know a guy who used to be gay and now he's more straight than most men I know.

What do you mean ? That most men you know are not totally straight ? So what are they ? Bi-sexual ?
Usually, either you are straight or you are not, but you are not more or less straight.

It's all psychology

You know, a number of experts who have studied this subject much more extensively than you would tell you that is is certainly not that simple. So, at least, you could give us some kind of argument to back up your assertion.
Besides, if turning from gay to straight was all psychology, then, the other way round, there should be some way to turn heterosexual men into homosexual ones using some form of psychology. As far as I am concerned, no-one will ever have me have sexual intercourse with a man, whatever "psychology" is used.

[Rubystars]

For those of you who want to try and "fix" homosexual men, let me ask you something. 

Would you want your daughters or your sisters or any of your female relatives married to a man who has no interest in women?  Is that really fair to your daughters, sisters, and your female relatives?  Don't they deserve to be happy in their marriages? 

Good point Lisa, I don't think it's very fair for someone to be married to someone and not really be able to have a deep connection with their spouse.

I don't think most gays or lesbians can change how they feel inside, any more than most straight people would ever be able to just become gay or lesbian. I don't see why anyone would ever choose to be gay and I think those who can turn away from it and truly be heterosexual are very few.

I think we need to be compassionate and understanding of this while standing firm on what God says about not engaging in homosexual sexual behaviors. Let's not drive good people that God made in His image to suicide over something they can't help. We should support them as human beings but not encourage the sinful sexual behaviors.

[Secularbeliever]

I don't think most gays or lesbians can change how they feel inside, any more than most straight people would ever be able to just become gay or lesbian. I don't see why anyone would ever choose to be gay and I think those who can turn away from it and truly be heterosexual are very few.<<
Exactly, many fight it for years and cannot admit even to themselves that they are gay.

>I think we need to be compassionate and understanding of this while standing firm on what G-d says about not engaging in homosexual sexual behaviors. Let's not drive good people that G-d made in His image to suicide over something they can't help. We should support them as human beings but not encourage the sinful sexual behaviors.  <
Exactly
 

[muman613]

Remember that being 'Bisexual' is also a sin in the Torah...

Anything which involves a man having sex with a man is forbidden, regardless of the attraction or lack of attraction.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Dr. Dan,  there are no accurate medical facts in any of Christian zionist's posts.

So rectal HPV is not almost exclusively seen in homosexuals?

Dr. Brennanfan,  your message to me seems to answer things I never said or felt.  Thank you to everyone who responded.

You called Christian Zionist all kinds of the most vile, evil things imaginable. It is a matter of public record.

[Dr. Dan]

Dr. Dan,  there are no accurate medical facts in any of Christian zionist's posts.

Dr. Brennanfan,  your message to me seems to answer things I never said or felt.  Thank you to everyone who responded.

However, do you agree that homosexuals are at very high risk to get STD's?  And if so, what's wrong with the warning that CZ brings?  I personally wouldn't want to whitewash the dangers of anal sex...or for that matter an type of promiscuous sex gay or straight.

[Raulmarrio2000]

In ancient Israel times, neighbouring pagan nations parctised homosexuality on a regular basis (whether gay oriented or not). Did Jews enter into conflict with them for that reason? Some say that Alexander the Great was gay. Did Jews have anything to say? Even more, if he was not gay, he was surely pagan and worshipped idols (also forbidden by the Noahide Laws).
Why would Jews now care to involve themselves in Gentile's problems, when there is so much work to do to protect Israel and the Jewish People?

[Lisa]

Thank you, Raulmarrio!

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

today we have reached at such juncture because the society has become perverse among the hetrosexuals too. Conservatives in western countries gave freedom to all kinds of hetrosexuality, so the homosexuals have gone further and become more bolder. Conservative society started to accept hetrosexual marraige unions where the understanding of sanctity of virgnity was forgotten and not important. Sex before marriage, not necessarily becoming partners in future were accepted.

[Dr. Dan]

I think there are some points we can agree on here:


We all agree that homosexuality is immoral behavior and we should not tolerate the behavior.

We all agree that we should not tolerate homosexuals, heterosexuals, or groups that encourage the homosexual behavior or homosexual agenda whether it is monogamous or not.

We all agree that all risky sexual actions, multiple sex partners, sex outside of marriage, anal sex, adultery, multiple sex partners, bisexuality, etc all have an increased risk of developing embarrassing and deadly STDs that can cause death, cancer, and/or sterility.

I think most of us agree that homosexuals who agree with what I wrote and don't act on these desires are our friends and we should be compassionate towards them and help them and encourage them to avoid hurting themselves mentally and physically.

I think most of us agree that heterosexuals who have problems of sleeping around who don't want to do it are on the same boat.

I think if we are going to defame a homosexual, we should note it that we are defaming the ones who are in the first category: the ones who  act on their desires unapologetically and those who are for the homosexual agenda and thereby encourage others to do the same.


I think it is cut and dry....please note any disagreements any of you might have with this.

[The One and Only Mo]

Homosexuals are bad m'kay.

[Rubystars]

Homosexuals are bad m'kay.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Thanks Rubystars.  I'm glad someone was getting as sick and tired of that lame attention seeking respons mmmkay? 

Dr. Brennanfan, frankly I'm done with you on this forum for a good while.  I'm tired of trying to salvage  a working relationship with you.  You and CZ. Can keep throwing in occasional facts with afactual non scientific gobbely gook about homosexuality.  I'm still in between apts.  and I'm not going to tap away on my iPhone about this stuff anymore

[The One and Only Mo]

Homosexuals are bad m'kay.

SWEET

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Dr. Brennanfan, frankly I'm done with you on this forum for a good while.  I'm tired of trying to salvage  a working relationship with you.  You and CZ. Can keep throwing in occasional facts with afactual non scientific gobbely gook about homosexuality.  I'm still in between apts.  and I'm not going to tap away on my iPhone about this stuff anymore

The feeling is more than mutual. You said some pretty abominable things about one of our best members and haven't shown the slightest bit of remorse. Since you are so right on this issue, how about linking us to some studies showing that it isn't almost exclusively homosexuals who have and spread rectal HPV (or who practice fisting).

[Raulmarrio2000]

From the locked thread: Lisa said.

The fact of the matter is, JTFEnthusiast2 has chosen to not act on his attraction to other men.  However, that does NOT make him a heterosexual.  What he's been saying here is that he and  people like him have been abused and discriminated against despite not acting on their attraction to members of the same sex.  So when people here post about "Fags this fags that" of course he'll take it personally.

Very wise words. But I'd like to point out that the same apply to Blacks. How do members here think a Black person would feel if he reads " Schwartas, Haitain Grease, Negroes and that and that"?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Very wise words. But I'd like to point out that the same apply to Blacks. How do members here think a Black person would feel if he reads " Schwartas, Haitain Grease, Negroes and that and that"?

Nobody here appreciates your constant defense of negroes. We don't judge anyone based on their race but the vast majority of blacks in this generation have chosen to be anti-Semites. At least in America, blacks are much more likely to be Nazis than whites.

[nessuno]

Dr. Brennanfan, frankly I'm done with you on this forum for a good while.  I'm tired of trying to salvage  a working relationship with you.  You and CZ. Can keep throwing in occasional facts with afactual non scientific gobbely gook about homosexuality.  I'm still in between apts.  and I'm not going to tap away on my iPhone about this stuff anymore

The feeling is more than mutual. You said some pretty abominable things about one of our best members and haven't shown the slightest bit of remorse. Since you are so right on this issue, how about linking us to some studies showing that it isn't almost exclusively homosexuals who have and spread rectal HPV (or who practice fisting).

Rectal HPV is spread almost exclusively by homosexual activity.  OK - so if you are not an active homosexual...you have nothing to fear from rectal HPV.
I would like to see the studies specific to homosexuals on the spread of HPV.  I couldn't find any.  I'm just curious.
MRSA is not a disease exclusive to the homosexual population, in my understanding.  Nor are they spreading it more then any other group.  If you want exposure to MRSA...go to the hospital, a daycare center or join a wrestling team.  I'm convinced a NYC train ride could help you out with that too.  Are there studies that say different?

Why do we have to keep bringing up 'fisting'?  I'm just asking.  It is not something I like to imagine.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Very wise words. But I'd like to point out that the same apply to Blacks. How do members here think a Black person would feel if he reads " Schwartas, Haitain Grease, Negroes and that and that"?

Nobody here appreciates your constant defense of negroes. We don't judge anyone based on their race but the vast majority of blacks in this generation have chosen to be anti-Semites. At least in America, blacks are much more likely to be Nazis than whites.

So just because the average percentage of anti-Semites is higher among blacks than among whites in America, you feel entitled to insult all blacks. You say that you don't judge based on race. How do you think a black who supports Israel would feel if he is insulted that way?
These comments are anti-Torah and a crime against the Jewish People. Remember that there are Ethyopian Jews who are obviously black, and that any Gentile can convert to Judaism regardless of his race.

With this bigotry which is present in nearly all the world, Humanity is doomed. The only thing we can expect is a Muslim invasion in Europe, or a leftist takeover of the whole west, not only approving gay marriage and abortion, but even criminalizing heterosexuality. Don't you realise that enemies take advatage of bigoty among their victims?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

MRSA is not a disease exclusive to the homosexual population, in my understanding.  Nor are they spreading it more then any other group.  If you want exposure to MRSA...go to the hospital, a daycare center or join a wrestling team.  I'm convinced a NYC train ride could help you out with that too.  Are theres studies that say different?

I don't see where CZ said that MRSA is specifically a homosexual disease. What he meant is that within the realm of all sex, homosexuals, due to their penchant for extreme promiscuity (sometimes 10-15 partners a day in their bars and saunas) are disproportionately likely to play a role in it.

Why do we have to keep bringing up 'fisting'?  I'm just asking.  It is not something I like to imagine.

He took all sorts of heat for linking to a page that showed that high school students were shown a pamphlet that discussed fisting.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

So just because the average percentage of anti-Semites is higher among blacks than among whites in America, you feel entitled to insult all blacks. You say that you don't judge based on race.

Did you not read my OP, where I said that being black is not a sin?

How do you think a black who supports Israel would feel if he is insulted that way?

Obviously we do not insult righteous blacks. But very few blacks are Zionists.

These comments are anti-Torah and a crime against the Jewish People. Remember that there are Ethyopian Jews who are obviously black, and that any Gentile can convert to Judaism regardless of his race.

Would you mind explaining just how this is to Chaim and to the rest of the forum?

With this bigotry which is present in nearly all the world, Humanity is doomed. The only thing we can expect is a Muslim invasion in Europe, or a leftist takeover of the whole west, not only approving gay marriage and abortion, but even criminalizing heterosexuality. Don't you realise that enemies take advatage of bigoty among their victims?

So if you know this is true, why cause divisiveness in this thread? This whole thread is about the sodomy-acceptance movement and what it is doing to us all.

[Raulmarrio2000]

1- You said being black is not a sin. But you insult them all.

2-When you insult them, it's obvious that ANY Black would feel hurt even if he is pro-Jewish or even if he had converted. An Ethipian Jew would also feel hurt.

3-The Jewish sages warned against involving Israel with issues not incumbent to Judaism. And it's forbidding to casue unnecessary conflicts with other nations. It's also a Chilul H" to say hurting things agaisnt people in a way that it would falsely appear that that's the way of the Torah (this forum is called jewish and even keeps Shabbat).

4- Leftists  just want to destroy us. They are not even pro-gay acceptance. They side either with pro-gay marriage (Most of their supporters are actually straight), they side with Muslims who execute gays and they side with anyone who can destroy civilization. Those pro-gay adoption would have no problem in taking part in a demonstration defending Iran in case a human right organization accused Iranians of inhumanity on the execution of a supposed gay man.
Why causing divisons? A good question for you. Why annoying righteous people with racist comments?

[Dr. Dan]

I guess nobody read what I wrote. I think I was clear and accurate of how things should be expressed.

First off, raul mario, being nice isn't the way to go. Being decisive accurate and strong is the way to go.

As far as homosexuality, we need to be strong in our disapproval of it. And we need to be accurate by stating that we equally abhore immoral heterosexual relations just as much, but show compassion towards those who want to change their behaviors or those who have already changed their behaviors.

In regards to blacks, chaim goes out of his to mention its not race and that the righteous do exist out of evil nations.

As with homosexuals, my recommendation is to do the same and state we equally abhore immoral sex between all things.

I think DBF and CZ and JTFe2 would agree.   

[Yaakov Mendel]

Raulmarrio,
I don't see anything racist or abusive towards Blacks in DBF's remarks in this thread.
It is a fact that a considerable proportion of Black Americans support or at least sympathize with L. Farrakhan. I think you are going way overboard when you qualify those comments as "a crime against the Jewish people" 
Also, I'm not sure in English, but in Yiddish "schwartza" is not derogatory. Enough of the stifling political correctness !