Acient Israeli's bordors, and the moderen bordors

[Dexter]

Acient Israeli's bordors filled with blue, and have a black borders.
Moderen Israeli's bordors filled with blue, and have green borders.

Do you think Israel should have borders like in the acient times ?

[mord]

Acient Israeli's bordors filled with blue, and have a black borders.
Moderen Israeli's bordors filled with blue, and have green borders.

Do you think Israel should have borders like in the acient times ?

Yes i never knew Damscus was part of ancient Israel,but it's fine with me but the moslems must leave

[Dexter]

More maps:

[Masha]

I posted another map in the Think Tank section:



Well, I don't know which is the right map. It should go from Nile to Euphrates. I wholeheartedly support Israel within G-d's prescribed borders. I would not accept anything less - no compromise! 

[Dexter]

I posted another map in the Think Tank section:



Well, I don't know which is the right map. It should go from Nile to Euphrates. I wholeheartedly support Israel within G-d's prescribed borders. I would not accept anything less - no compromise! 

Your map is of the tribes journy.

[Masha]

Would this then be an accurate map of the land that God gave to Israel and that should belong to it rightly? It seems to go from river to river.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Israel is way too small.

[Masha]

I'm just happy with the Israel of 1967.

I am not happy.

[OdKahaneChai]

I'm just happy with the Israel of 1967.

I'm not.  I don't think we need all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates - but the borders should be returned to at least what they were during the time of David HaMelech.

[yisrael.chai]

I'm just happy with the Israel of 1967.

I'm not.  I don't think we need all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates - but the borders should be returned to at least what they were during the time of David HaMelech.

G-D PROMISED US ALL OF THE LAND; WE NEED TO FORCIBLY TAKE IT ALL!

[OdKahaneChai]

I'm just happy with the Israel of 1967.

I'm not.  I don't think we need all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates - but the borders should be returned to at least what they were during the time of David HaMelech.

G-D PROMISED US ALL OF THE LAND; WE NEED TO FORCIBLY TAKE IT ALL!

I said I don't think we need all of the land.  Obviously, if we get the chance (which we will eventually), we should take it.

[Dexter]

Would this then be an accurate map of the land that G-d gave to Israel and that should belong to it rightly? It seems to go from river to river.

Thet's how it was promised in genesis.

[Ehud]

I don't think it will be possible (at least in the near and even somewhat distant future) to conquer and then forcibly expel all those people.  We would have to conquer most of Jordan, all of Lebanon, a big chunk of Syria, and the Sinai and then expel millions.  There would be a mass exodus of tens of millions of arabs.  We don't even have the ability to conquer all those places, let alone expel everyone.  Israel can't even expel a million and something arabs inside the country!  We should focus on kicking all the arabs out of Israel first.  That will be difficult enough and would be provocative enough to invite a major confrontation with a few arab countries and the rest of the world and possibly a war.  If Israel tried to conquer to expand the borders to the ancient land of Israel, the world would simply not stand by while Israel invaded all those areas and expelled their populations.  Most of the middle east would declare war on us and other countries like Russia would step in as well.  It would basically be like starting World War III.  It would pretty much be suicide.  Let's focus on expelling all the arabs inside Israel first.  Then let's concentrate on resettling all of the Palestinians in arab lands. 

[Masha]

I don't think it will be possible (at least in the near and even somewhat distant future) to conquer and then forcibly expel all those people.  We would have to conquer most of Jordan, all of Lebanon, a big chunk of Syria, and the Sinai and then expel millions.  There would be a mass exodus of tens of millions of arabs.  We don't even have the ability to conquer all those places, let alone expel everyone.  Israel can't even expel a million and something arabs inside the country!  We should focus on kicking all the arabs out of Israel first.  That will be difficult enough and would be provocative enough to invite a major confrontation with a few arab countries and the rest of the world and possibly a war.  If Israel tried to conquer to expand the borders to the ancient land of Israel, the world would simply not stand by while Israel invaded all those areas and expelled their populations.  Most of the middle east would declare war on us and other countries like Russia would step in as well.  It would basically be like starting World War III.  It would pretty much be suicide.  Let's focus on expelling all the arabs inside Israel first.  Then let's concentrate on resettling all of the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis in arab lands. 

I do see your point. However, I think that it is very important for strategic purposes to maintain that the ultimate goal of Zionism is Israel in its Biblical borders (just as "palistinians" keep insisting that their ultimate goal is to destroy Israel). The more ambitious is one's declared final goal, the more acceptable are one's temporary goals (such as re-occupying Gaza and the West Bank).

[Dr. Dan]

I'm just happy with the Israel of 1967.

I'm not.  I don't think we need all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates - but the borders should be returned to at least what they were during the time of David HaMelech.

G-D PROMISED US ALL OF THE LAND; WE NEED TO FORCIBLY TAKE IT ALL!

I have noticed an interpretation in the Torah that the although Gd gave a nice chunk of lands for them and us, He intentionally didn't give 100% of that land right away.  Why is that?  Because the population of the Jewish people and Israelites was too small to occupy all that land..otherwise vicious beasts and the what not, would attack the people.

I see it as a similar situation today.  Yes, in our hearts we know that the Niles to the Euphrates is what Gd promised us.  However, there are not enough Jews yet to be able to occupy those lands...but in time, we know, Gd willing, with His help, that we will receive that land from Him.

[Ehud]

I do see your point. However, I think that it is very important for strategic purposes to maintain that the ultimate goal of Zionism is Israel in its Biblical borders (just as "palistinians" keep insisting that their ultimate goal is to destroy Israel). The more ambitious is one's declared final goal, the more acceptable are one's temporary goals (such as re-occupying Gaza and the West Bank).

On the other hand, the more ambitious the goals of extremist Zionism are, the more of a reason surrounding arab states have to seek the destruction of Israel in order to prevent the conquering of their land.  When arabs believe that Israel wants to expand beyond the 1967 borders, that unifies them in the purpose of preventing Israeli imperialism, which they see as a reality and a threat to them.  I've heard arabs say many times that the destruction of Israel is justified because it wants to create a "Talmudic empire."  Even for strategic purposes, the idea of an Israel based on its ancient land does not do any good.  I think it's sufficient for strategic purposes to have an unwavering position that demands kicking all arabs out of Israel and out of Gaza, Judea, and Samaria.

[Masha]

On the other hand, the more ambitious the goals of extremist Zionism are, the more of a reason surrounding arab states have to seek the destruction of Israel in order to prevent the conquering of their land.  When arabs believe that Israel wants to expand beyond the 1967 borders, that unifies them in the purpose of preventing Israeli imperialism, which they see as a reality and a threat to them.  I've heard arabs say many times that the destruction of Israel is justified because it wants to create a "Talmudic empire."  Even for strategic purposes, the idea of an Israel based on its ancient land does not do any good.  I think it's sufficient for strategic purposes to have an unwavering position that demands kicking all arabs out of Israel and out of Gaza, Judea, and Samaria.

Z. Zhabotinsky, a position like yours is very rational. But my gut feeling is that when we deal with Israel, we need to be irrational. The first Zionists were told that their dream is completely irrational and unattainable. If we only imagine the possible, we will never achieve the impossible. I even had a good quote from one of the Zionist Fathers to this effect, but I don't know where it is.

Another thing is that this (being "reasonable") is the line of thought that leads to propitiation. Israel keeps playing this card of propitiating and accommodating - and look where it got it. Painting itself into a corner. Again, my got feeling is that now is the time to stake out a position that is completely "unreasonable" by the standards of Western community. They will only respect us for this. And anyway, our support is not from polititians, but from regular folks. They will be delighted if Israel takes an uncompromising, religious stance.

[Ultra Requete]

I've seen this one:

on loony A-rab site about Zionist cospiracy and protocols;
The funny thing is: The Israelis won't start the war; they realy want to live normal live in peace; Those stupid nazim A-rabs and mullahs belivin' in Mahdi and zionist plot paranoia will start the war; and the end will be just like after six day war... or this map.

Thah will be the hand of G-d, We shoud only prey that post war Israeli leadership will be more brave and honest than Golda Meier and Moshe Dayan.

 

[Masha]

The first map is not a bad map. This should be the ultimate goal - from Nile to Euphrates.

[Taren]

I'm just happy with the Israel of 1967.

I'm not.  I don't think we need all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates - but the borders should be returned to at least what they were during the time of David HaMelech.

If you are so anxious to do so why arent you going to "liberate" it? because face it, most of you people are cyber net warriors, you allways use the terms "will,should,could,would", you expect other people to do so for you, the moderate majority, you also expect them to die for you, just so your fake belief in a divine redemption will arrive, but then again the main reason the english section is 100 times more active than the hebrew one, is because most of the wannabes are not only not Israelis and dont understand hebrew, but they see it as some sort of a video game all the way from the US of A, this applies to the Kach fundies and christian "zionists".

[Muck DeFuslims]

I'd rather be a Christian zionist or Kach fundie cyber warrior than a useless, moronic peace now [censored].

What's your vision, cornhole ?

Singing kumbaya with the moooozies ?

Take your politically correct 'moderation' and shove it up your ass.

[SSN]

we shouldnt base our borders on religion at the cost of lives, most of the supporters of such expansion are those who sit safely at home while others do the dying in their name (מדבר עליכם, ישיבה'ניקים)

we should strive for a stable, safe, united and secular country above all else, upholding western values that set us apart from the muslim majority.

[newman]

we shouldnt base our borders on religion at the cost of lives, most of the supporters of such expansion are those who sit safely at home while others do the dying in their name (מדבר עליכם, ישיבה'ניקים)

we should strive for a stable, safe, united and secular country above all else, upholding western values that set us apart from the muslim majority.

We've got another plant from 'surrender now'.

A 'secular country' defeats the whole purpose of a Jewish State, nitwit!

[SSN]

we shouldnt base our borders on religion at the cost of lives, most of the supporters of such expansion are those who sit safely at home while others do the dying in their name (מדבר עליכם, ישיבה'ניקים)

we should strive for a stable, safe, united and secular country above all else, upholding western values that set us apart from the muslim majority.

We've got another plant from 'surrender now'.

A 'secular country' defeats the whole purpose of a Jewish State, nitwit!

i was under the assumption that i live in a secular country, interesting.
a jewish state upholds jewish tradition, but does not force it (at least most of it), its a secular country and i like it that way, a jewish state exists to harbor jews, not to form some kind of giant mitzvah factory.

and just because i have slightly different views doesnt mean im a peace now scumbag.

[Taren]

I'd rather be a Christian zionist or Kach fundie cyber warrior than a useless, moronic peace now [censored].

What's your vision, cornhole ?

Singing kumbaya with the moooozies ?

Take your politically correct 'moderation' and shove it up your ass.

A cornhole? well that's a new one, i expected the good old Nazi title or lefty, atleast there's a bit creativity, my vision is a state in defendable borders, not a fantasy dream about expansion in a sea of 300 million arabs, what do you want to do all the way to Iraq, kill every arab in the way? we'll follow you... lead the way.

Politically correct? i dont think me and SSN are politically correct in any sense, i mean if you had a clue about Israeli internal state of mind you would know the settlers are the sacred cow, and in the U.S, well any guy with an average level of I.Q knows the role of envengalicals in the same corrupted DC, right?