Acient Israeli's bordors, and the moderen bordors

[Taren]

we shouldnt base our borders on religion at the cost of lives, most of the supporters of such expansion are those who sit safely at home while others do the dying in their name (מדבר עליכם, ישיבה'ניקים)

we should strive for a stable, safe, united and secular country above all else, upholding western values that set us apart from the muslim majority.

We've got another plant from 'surrender now'.

A 'secular country' defeats the whole purpose of a Jewish State, nitwit!

Sorry to dissapoint you, but Peace Now to me is as much of a renegade organization as Kach, dont worry i dont discriminate when it comes to politics.

[Muck DeFuslims]

we should strive for a stable, safe, united and secular country above all else...

Here's the problem, idiots.

Your ideas, and the cornhole Taren's ideas for bringing stability, safety, and unison haven't worked.

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong ?

Do you ever feel remorse for the deaths of Jews that you cause as a result of your 'moderation' and insanely suicidal, never ending appeasement, in pursuit of an unachievable 'peace' ?

The Oslo farce sure brought stability and safety didn't it ?

The 'disengagement' sure brought about unity, safety and stability, didn't it ?

And you have the unmitigated gall to come here and say we want people to die for our vision ?

The truth is thousands of Jews have died and countless others have been maimed due to your lack of vision.

But you idiots never give up.

You're proven wrong, time and time again.

Jews suffer and die because of your gutless appeasement policies that only embolden an implacable enemy.

You make me want to puke.

Both of you clowns talk about safety and defendable borders.

Tell me what that means to you.

I suppose establishing a Paleostinkian state in Judea, Samaria and Aza will bring you defendable borders ?  How about the Golan ?

Apparently, on your planet creating defendable borders entails surrendering more land from an already tiny nation.

Your suicidal insanity would be humorous if it was just yourselves that you were getting killed.

But that's not the case.

That's why you bastards are so worthy of contempt.

[Taren]

we should strive for a stable, safe, united and secular country above all else...

Here's the problem, idiots.

Your ideas, and the cornhole Taren's ideas for bringing stability, safety, and unison haven't worked.

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong ?

Do you ever feel remorse for the deaths of Jews that you cause as a result of your 'moderation' and insanely suicidal, never ending appeasement, in pursuit of an unachievable 'peace' ?

The Oslo farce sure brought stability and safety didn't it ?

The 'disengagement' sure brought about unity, safety and stability, didn't it ?

And you have the unmitigated gall to come here and say we want people to die for our vision ?

The truth is thousands of Jews have died and countless others have been maimed due to your lack of vision.

But you idiots never give up.

You're proven wrong, time and time again.

Jews suffer and die because of your gutless appeasement policies that only embolden an implacable enemy.

You make me want to puke.

Both of you clowns talk about safety and defendable borders.

Tell me what that means to you.

I suppose establishing a Paleostinkian state in Judea, Samaria and Aza will bring you defendable borders ?  How about the Golan ?

Apparently, on your planet creating defendable borders entails surrendering more land from an already tiny nation.

Your suicidal insanity would be humorous if it was just yourselves that you were getting killed.

But that's not the case.

That's why you bastards are so worthy of contempt.

Well these two "idiots" actually live in Israel, its interesting those that are the most millitant live thousands of miles away and spit "go all the way to Iraq", are you going to come and fight or let the usual suckers die for you?

"The truth is thousands of Jews have died and countless others have been maimed due to your lack of vision.", actually if you look into it, it was religious fanatics who brought disaster on the Jews, the fall of the first and secon temple and the exile, but dont tell me, those were Lefty Jews sent by satan.

You talk as if you actually give a you know what about Israeli lives, then you give me the BS that the borders should be all the way to Iraq, and the plan to achive it is, war? which will cost probably a few million Israelis, but you still believe it should be done, so i asked you again, gutless keyboard warrior, are YOU going to come and help all the way to Iraq, or keep threatening on a damn forum? muslims do that a lot, shows a hell of a lot of character.

[newman]

Answer his points, shtetl boy.

Admit it. Your kind have been consistantly wrong over and over and over again. The current headlines [prove it.

[SSN]

Answer his points, shtetl boy.

Admit it. Your kind have been consistantly wrong over and over and over again. The current headlines [prove it.

were not leftists, but we dont believe there are only two options, appeasement or conquest and genocide.

what makes you think the only option aside of appeasement is your solution?

im actually going to fight, unlike you and you kahanist kin, which make poor soldiers. סרבנים הם לא חיילים

we need safe borders, the pullout was a strategic move, the violent reaction to it- a political move.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Listen cornhole, I don't have to live on the South Pole to know it's cold there and it's best to have a warm jacket.

I'll ask you again....

What is your idea of 'defendable borders' and how do you plan to obtain them ?

Let me guess....

You're gonna throw those 'religious fanatics' out of their homes to do it.

No ?

Then tell me your plan.

Put up or shut up.

[newman]

Answer his points, shtetl boy.

Admit it. Your kind have been consistantly wrong over and over and over again. The current headlines [prove it.

were not leftists, but we dont believe there are only two options, appeasement or conquest and genocide.

what makes you think the only option aside of appeasement is your solution?

im actually going to fight, unlike you and you kahanist kin, which make poor soldiers. סרבנים הם לא חיילים

we need safe borders, the pullout was a strategic move, the violent reaction to it- a political move.

"the pullout was a strategic move"

GOOD GRIEF!!!

If that dissaster was a 'srategic move', then G_d save Israel from more of your bone-headed strategy.

[SSN]

Listen cornhole, I don't have to live on the South Pole to know it's cold there and it's best to have a warm jacket.

I'll ask you again....

What is your idea of 'defendable borders' and how do you plan to obtain them ?

Let me guess....

You're gonna throw those 'religious fanatics' out of their homes to do it.

No ?

Then tell me your plan.

Put up or shut up.

1. bigass wall, no remote settlements who suck up resources and manpower, endangering troops for religious greed/zeal.

2. more incursions and disruption of hamas, im no general (neither are you kid) but i know re- occupation is one of the proposed solutions.

and no, the settlements werent strongholds, they were a weakness to the IDF.

[Taren]

Listen cornhole, I don't have to live on the South Pole to know it's cold there and it's best to have a warm jacket.

I'll ask you again....

What is your idea of 'defendable borders' and how do you plan to obtain them ?

Let me guess....

You're gonna throw those 'religious fanatics' out of their homes to do it.

No ?

Then tell me your plan.

Put up or shut up.

Sure you do, because its much easier to sacrifice a few Israelis when it has zero affect on you all the way back in the cosy U.S.

"What is your idea of 'defendable borders' and how do you plan to obtain them ?"

Keeping the main, large concetration of settlements such as Ma'ale Adomim and the removal of all small, which requier a dozan soldiers to baby sit two families living in the middle of no where in a trailer, now whats yours, conquest all the way to Iraq?  

The Golan should remain under Israeli controll, Gush Katif is dead, it aint coming back.

"You're gonna throw those 'religious fanatics' out of their homes to do it.
No ?"

If they break the Israeli law, if they think they are in a level above other Israelis, and if they do hold the Torah as the only law and refuse to obey the rules of the state, they can form their own little fanaticalistan and see how much time its going to take for the arabs to run it over, to your question, depends on the location of those settlements.

"Put up or shut up", try me, now you havent answered my question yet, border up to the nile, share with me your glorious plan, and let me laugh.

[Muck DeFuslims]

we need safe borders, the pullout was a strategic move, the violent reaction to it- a political move.

The 'pullout' was sure a brilliant strategic move. Definitely created a safe border, didn't it ?

Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too. That'll create another safe border.

Oh, and the people that resist having their homes taken from them, and their communities destroyed are only making a 'political' statement. They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents, they're just playing politics.

Do you actually believe the crap you write ?

[SSN]

we need safe borders, the pullout was a strategic move, the violent reaction to it- a political move.

The 'pullout' was sure a brilliant strategic move. Definitely created a safe border, didn't it ?

Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too. That'll create another safe border.

Oh, and the people that resist having their homes taken from them, and their communities destroyed are only making a 'political' statement. They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents, they're just playing politics.

Do you actually believe the crap you write ?

if you pull your head out of your ass youll understand the uprising and refuseniks were ordered to do so by radicals with an agenda.
poor babies had their homes taken away, justifies throwing blocks at our troops!

as taren said, larger easier to guard settlements are fine in most circumstances, when we can actually safeguard it without allocating 100 men per family.

[newman]

we need safe borders, the pullout was a strategic move, the violent reaction to it- a political move.

The 'pullout' was sure a brilliant strategic move. Definitely created a safe border, didn't it ?

Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too. That'll create another safe border.

Oh, and the people that resist having their homes taken from them, and their communities destroyed are only making a 'political' statement. They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents, they're just playing politics.

Do you actually believe the crap you write ?

if you pull your head out of your ass youll understand the uprising and refuseniks were ordered to do so by radicals with an agenda.
poor babies had their homes taken away, justifies throwing blocks at our troops!

as taren said, larger easier to guard settlements are fine in most circumstances, when we can actually safeguard it without allocating 100 men per family.

KEEP THE WHOLE OF BIBLICAL ISRAEL AND NO SETTLEMENT WOULD BE ISOLATED, YOU GREAT, BIG, PRIZE-WINNING, BLUE RIBBON SCHMUCK!!

[Shlomo]

If you are so anxious to do so why arent you going to "liberate" it? because face it, most of you people are cyber net warriors, you allways use the terms "will,should,could,would", you expect other people to do so for you, the moderate majority, you also expect them to die for you, just so your fake belief in a divine redemption will arrive, but then again the main reason the english section is 100 times more active than the hebrew one, is because most of the wannabes are not only not Israelis and dont understand hebrew, but they see it as some sort of a video game all the way from the US of A, this applies to the Kach fundies and christian "zionists".

Woah... what a hateful, angry little man you are.

Hang on one second... you are completely wrong.

Personal insults are NOT allowed on this forum. You have said some nasty things in here and I'm going to let you say your last word before I ban you.

You are saying some very ignorant things. It's obvious you are making a lot of assumptions. I could rip your arguments into pieces.

For example, the Hebrew forum is more active and the database is actually larger than the U.S. JTF site. I should know since I maintain it, back it up, and query against it. The list goes on... you would do well to ask questions before you jump the gun and call us all sorts of names.

[SSN]

If you are so anxious to do so why arent you going to "liberate" it? because face it, most of you people are cyber net warriors, you allways use the terms "will,should,could,would", you expect other people to do so for you, the moderate majority, you also expect them to die for you, just so your fake belief in a divine redemption will arrive, but then again the main reason the english section is 100 times more active than the hebrew one, is because most of the wannabes are not only not Israelis and dont understand hebrew, but they see it as some sort of a video game all the way from the US of A, this applies to the Kach fundies and christian "zionists".

Woah... what a hateful, angry little man you are.

Hang on one second... you are completely wrong.

Personal insults are NOT allowed on this forum. You have said some nasty things in here and I'm going to let you say your last word before I ban you.

You are saying some very ignorant things. It's obvious you are making a lot of assumptions. I could rip your arguments into pieces.

For example, the Hebrew forum is more active and the database is actually larger than the U.S. JTF site. I should know since I maintain it, back it up, and query against it. The list goes on... you would do well to ask questions before you jump the gun and call us all sorts of names.

i did not see him call anyone names, look at people who replied to him and to me. banning him only shows how scared you are of actual opposition to your beliefs.

i dont know if mr. big bad admin has a scroll button, but you can click on the sidebar and drag upwards and see some namecalling by your members, who will of course not be banned...

not that i expect anything else, just trying to show you how scared you are.

[Taren]

we need safe borders, the pullout was a strategic move, the violent reaction to it- a political move.

The 'pullout' was sure a brilliant strategic move. Definitely created a safe border, didn't it ?

Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too. That'll create another safe border.

Oh, and the people that resist having their homes taken from them, and their communities destroyed are only making a 'political' statement. They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents, they're just playing politics.

Do you actually believe the crap you write ?

As usuall you people act as if prior to the pull out every thing was a utopia, as if qassams werent fired, as if infiltrations werent commited, selective memory.

"Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too."  you cant compare Gaza to the West bank, in terms of size, in terms of population centers, and in term of the power Fatah holds in the West Bank and in contrast Hamas in Gaza, and i already said and SSN that the main settlements should be kept, so why are you even using the term "pull out of the west bank"?

"They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents", they should be given the money that was promised to them, those who used violence against soldiers, no, as for living in tents, well its ironic, because billions upon billions spent on a group of 10,000 people living like a chicken bone stuck in the neck of Gaza, but thats alright, talking about brilliant strategists, not one of you answered a simple question, up to Iraq, how exactly?

[SSN]

we need safe borders, the pullout was a strategic move, the violent reaction to it- a political move.

The 'pullout' was sure a brilliant strategic move. Definitely created a safe border, didn't it ?

Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too. That'll create another safe border.

Oh, and the people that resist having their homes taken from them, and their communities destroyed are only making a 'political' statement. They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents, they're just playing politics.

Do you actually believe the crap you write ?

As usuall you people act as if prior to the pull out every thing was a utopia, as if qassams werent fired, as if infiltrations werent commited, selective memory.

"Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too."  you cant compare Gaza to the West bank, in terms of size, in terms of population centers, and in term of the power Fatah holds in the West Bank and in contrast Hamas in Gaza, and i already said and SSN that the main settlements should be kept, so why are you even using the term "pull out of the west bank"?

"They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents", they should be given the money that was promised to them, those who used violence against soldiers, no, as for living in tents, well its ironic, because billions upon billions spent on a group of 10,000 people living like a chicken bone stuck in the neck of Gaza, but thats alright, talking about brilliant strategists, not one of you answered a simple question, up to Iraq, how exactly?

swim in the river of troop's blood into baghdad.

all in the name of alla... err... hashem.

[Shlomo]

The 'pullout' was sure a brilliant strategic move. Definitely created a safe border, didn't it ?

Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too. That'll create another safe border.

Oh, and the people that resist having their homes taken from them, and their communities destroyed are only making a 'political' statement. They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents, they're just playing politics.

Do you actually believe the crap you write ?

As usuall you people act as if prior to the pull out every thing was a utopia, as if qassams werent fired, as if infiltrations werent commited, selective memory.

"Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too."  you cant compare Gaza to the West bank, in terms of size, in terms of population centers, and in term of the power Fatah holds in the West Bank and in contrast Hamas in Gaza, and i already said and SSN that the main settlements should be kept, so why are you even using the term "pull out of the west bank"?

"They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents", they should be given the money that was promised to them, those who used violence against soldiers, no, as for living in tents, well its ironic, because billions upon billions spent on a group of 10,000 people living like a chicken bone stuck in the neck of Gaza, but thats alright, talking about brilliant strategists, not one of you answered a simple question, up to Iraq, how exactly?[/quote]

Jews should NEVER pull out of any land in Israel. EVER.

You might not like to hear this, but the evil terrorist arabs that live in Israel should be killed immediately. If they are a part of Hamas, they should be killed. Fatah? Killed. The rest of them would be given money to leave or they would forced to leave.

This would solve the problem. They don't understand peace. They only understand violence. It's like a bully who won't stop until you clock him in the nose.

You are very angry (and quite the cyber warrior yourself) but you don't have the guts to do what it takes for real long lasting peace. We do.

[SSN]

jeff what about the arabs who are peaceful and even serve in the IDF?

the logistics for such an operation would be mind boggling, tell me how you and your fellow political geniuses are going to pull it off.

[Muck DeFuslims]

"Keeping the main, large concetration of settlements such as Ma'ale Adomim and the removal of all small, which requier a dozan soldiers to baby sit two families living in the middle of no where in a trailer, now whats yours, conquest all the way to Iraq?"

Ah, I see now.

Ma'ale Adomim stays but the rest go.

It's impractical to protect the others so out they go.

Besides, they're barely citizens anyway.

They're really religious fanatics that exclusively follow Torah law with utter disregard for obeying the rule of the State.
 
And to top it off they're on Muslim land.

Beware of a military that thinks it's impractical to protect it's citizens.

One day they'll decide it's impractical to defend the nation.

I know, like Olmert, you're tired of fighting and winning.

As far as a glorious plan to conquer all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates, we both know one doesn't exist.

That's just a red herring you like to use so you can say 'you're gonna get millions of Israelis killed'.

Sure, an Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates would be wonderful.

But no one is advocating launching an expansionist war to achieve it.

On the other hand, you're for shrinking an already microscopic nation and throwing your Jewish brothers and sisters out of their homes and communities on the grounds that it will create 'defendable borders'.

So tell me again, who is for creating stability, safety and unison ?

It's surely not you.

[Taren]

The 'pullout' was sure a brilliant strategic move. Definitely created a safe border, didn't it ?

Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too. That'll create another safe border.

Oh, and the people that resist having their homes taken from them, and their communities destroyed are only making a 'political' statement. They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents, they're just playing politics.

Do you actually believe the crap you write ?

As usuall you people act as if prior to the pull out every thing was a utopia, as if qassams werent fired, as if infiltrations werent commited, selective memory.

"Hey, I have an idea. 'Pull out' of the 'West Bank' too."  you cant compare Gaza to the West bank, in terms of size, in terms of population centers, and in term of the power Fatah holds in the West Bank and in contrast Hamas in Gaza, and i already said and SSN that the main settlements should be kept, so why are you even using the term "pull out of the west bank"?

"They aren't brilliant strategists like you guys, and really don't mind relocating and living in tents", they should be given the money that was promised to them, those who used violence against soldiers, no, as for living in tents, well its ironic, because billions upon billions spent on a group of 10,000 people living like a chicken bone stuck in the neck of Gaza, but thats alright, talking about brilliant strategists, not one of you answered a simple question, up to Iraq, how exactly?

Jews should NEVER pull out of any land in Israel. EVER.

You might not like to hear this, but the evil terrorist arabs that live in Israel should be killed immediately. If they are a part of Hamas, they should be killed. Fatah? Killed. The rest of them would be given money to leave or they would forced to leave.

This would solve the problem. They don't understand peace. They only understand violence. It's like a bully who won't stop until you clock him in the nose.

You are very angry (and quite the cyber warrior yourself) but you don't have the guts to do what it takes for real long lasting peace. We do.
[/quote]

ok.... are you coming any time soon to kill them? or do you expect some one else to do your dirty job?

How am i a cyber net warrior if i dont pose as rambo, talking about killing, taking land, is the definition of a cyber warrior, those who only talk behind their computer screen...

But when it comes to doing it themselves.... they are too busy thousands of miles away.

And i am asking again, you people said up to Iraq, how? give me your military tactic or plan.

[SSN]

remember to include the long term tactics of holding these lands.

[Muck DeFuslims]

jeff what about the arabs who are peaceful and even serve in the IDF?

the logistics for such an operation would be mind boggling, tell me how you and your fellow political geniuses are going to pull it off.

Jeff, I hope u don't mind me answering this buffoon.

We 'political geniuses' are astounded how the logistics for removing about a hundred thousand or more Jews from their homes and communities is an attainable 'strategic' goal, but when it comes to removing arabs it becomes a mind boggling impossibility.

We're just not as smart as you guys, so maybe you can explain the double standard to us.

[Taren]

All those settlemets that are not worth keeping in terms of strategic position in Judea and Samaria arent worth it, and if you think they do, go baby sit it yourself, then wonder how troops didnt have the time to train because they were too busy being baby sitters 24/7 in some god forsaken hill.

"Besides, they're barely citizens anyway", your words, not mine.

"And to top it off they're on Muslim land", didnt say that.

" know, like Olmert, you're tired of fighting and winning", you people dont have the guts to fight, other wise you would have done it before instead of bragging about doing so in a forum.

'So tell me again, who is for creating stability, safety and unison ?" the extreme nut cases on both of the political wings, youre no different than peace now, your goals are the same, just the tactic is different, so excuse us if we dont share the desire for Armagedon and the rapture.

[Taren]

jeff what about the arabs who are peaceful and even serve in the IDF?

the logistics for such an operation would be mind boggling, tell me how you and your fellow political geniuses are going to pull it off.

Jeff, I hope u don't mind me answering this buffoon.

We 'political geniuses' are astounded how the logistics for removing about a hundred thousand or more Jews from their homes and communities is an attainable 'strategic' goal, but when it comes to removing arabs it becomes a mind boggling impossibility.

We're just not as smart as you guys, so maybe you can explain the double standard to us.

Another display of ignorance and distortion of truth, there werent "hundreds of thousands of Jews" in Gaza, 10,000, if youre talking abou the West bank, we already answered twice, what more do you want smart guy?

If being "smart" means copy pasting "Mavet La Aravim", then i'll pass..

[Muck DeFuslims]

And i am asking again, you people said up to Iraq, how? give me your military tactic or plan.

Already answered you in an earlier post.

I'll repeat it since you're having difficulty keeping up:

As far as a glorious plan to conquer all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates, we both know one doesn't exist.

That's just a red herring you like to use so you can say 'you're gonna get millions of Israelis killed'.

Sure, an Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates would be wonderful.

But no one is advocating launching an expansionist war to achieve it.

On the other hand, you're for shrinking an already microscopic nation and throwing your Jewish brothers and sisters out of their homes and communities on the grounds that it will create 'defendable borders'.

So tell me again, who is for creating stability, safety and unison ?

It's surely not you.