Author Topic: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape  (Read 3383 times)

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2010, 09:04:47 PM »
You are in an arguing mode.  Muman is agreeing  with wonga on certain things.   
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2010, 09:11:09 PM »
Yeah, he is always supporting Wonga in his threads where he makes crazy claims.

Offline muman613

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2010, 09:14:15 PM »
Yeah, he is always supporting Wonga in his threads where he makes crazy claims.

Always supporting wonga!?! Go look at the history of wongas posts and see how many of them I agree with.

I have said that there are differences of opinions between us. I do not agree with everything he says... Please do not speak for me...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline wonga66

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2010, 09:23:56 PM »
I don't mind being criticized in a reasoned manner as befits a forum. But this Fan fellow really has it ad hominem in for me in an unbecoming manner in his shallow, uninformative, off-track, distracting, disruptive, irrelevant and nasty posts.

I really think the Moderator should remove the two avatars he has of this female. With all due respect to Hollywood gentile actresses, Fan may be a fan of this woman, but one of his glyphs of her is enough: this is the Jewish Task Force forum, after all!

Apart from his link to an Xtian Serb blog, are we sure that Fan really is a non-Jew? And exactly what is he a 'doctor' in?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:30:08 PM by wonga66 »

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2010, 09:26:31 PM »
Wonga, we're very sorry for your inconvenience but I'm not removing my picture sigs just because they make you want to vomit.

Offline wonga66

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2010, 09:50:11 PM »
As can be seen at 1.37 in this clip

the Lubavitcher Rebbe is warning Katsav not to support "Land for Peace". Katsav ignored this warning, and is being theoditically punished, as is the theme of the song.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2010, 09:55:09 PM »
He's being punished for being a fool too.  He was offered a deal that would have gotten him no jail time, but he refused it.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2010, 10:18:43 PM »
Wonga66, Dr. Brennan is the name of a female character in a television series called "Bones."  The photos in DBF's avatar are of the actress Emily Deschanel, who plays the part of Dr. Brennan.

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2010, 11:21:13 PM »
I don't mind being criticized in a reasoned manner as befits a forum. But this Fan fellow really has it ad hominem in for me in an unbecoming manner in his shallow, uninformative, off-track, distracting, disruptive, irrelevant and nasty posts.

I really think the Moderator should remove the two avatars he has of this female. With all due respect to Hollywood gentile actresses, Fan may be a fan of this woman, but one of his glyphs of her is enough: this is the Jewish Task Force forum, after all!

Apart from his link to an Xtian Serb blog, are we sure that Fan really is a non-Jew? And exactly what is he a 'doctor' in?

I don't think an avatar of an actrees is offensive. And what's the problem with a link to a Serbian site? I have seen it and it's not a missionizing site, judging by the few posts I read. Only it named Christmas. Don't memebers in this forum, even some Jews wish Merry christmas to to Christians?

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2010, 12:01:51 AM »
Once I read a story about Rabbi Lazer Brody, written by a woman who interviewed him.  I believe the reporter was Tamar Yonah.  She knew he was an Ultra Orthodox Rabbi, and that it was a sure guarantee that he would not shake her hand, but she decided she wanted to see how such a cool headed rabbi would approach the situation if she offered a handshake nonetheless.  When she extended her hand he reached forth to meet hers, but not with a handshake... he had a chocolate bar to give her as a present instead!  It is socially awkward to refuse a handshake, but it for one committed to a strict Torah life cannot compromise their beliefs for a trivial thing such as social awkwardness.  I have always thought that it was a fairly ingenious way to bypass social awkwardness and yet keep his religious views in tact.
"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

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Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2010, 04:16:35 AM »
Once I read a story about Rabbi Lazer Brody, written by a woman who interviewed him.  I believe the reporter was Tamar Yonah.  She knew he was an Ultra Orthodox Rabbi, and that it was a sure guarantee that he would not shake her hand, but she decided she wanted to see how such a cool headed rabbi would approach the situation if she offered a handshake nonetheless.  When she extended her hand he reached forth to meet hers, but not with a handshake... he had a chocolate bar to give her as a present instead!  It is socially awkward to refuse a handshake, but it for one committed to a strict Torah life cannot compromise their beliefs for a trivial thing such as social awkwardness.  I have always thought that it was a fairly ingenious way to bypass social awkwardness and yet keep his religious views in tact.

Screw public opinion. Social awkwardness is a HUMAN RIGHT! (except for terrorists/muslims)

Nothing wrong with insulting people by not shaking their hand.

Offline wonga66

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« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2010, 05:09:52 AM »
Normally one doesn't shake a woman's hand, unless not to do so could cause a public scandal.

When Orthodox Mayor of Hackney Agudist Joe Lobenstein went to get his OBE from the Queen of England, he received a Halachic dispensation from the London Beth Din to shake Her Majesty's hand, out of "kvod malchuss" - honour that has to be given to even a gentile ruler



When he went to then British PM Margaret Thatcher and told her secretary that he would rather not shake her hand for religious reasons, the PM told him "I respect that very, very much!".

If your presented with an unknowing woman's hand in public, it's best to take it, as to suddenly spurn it can be taken as the height of insult in this society.

Offline edu

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2010, 05:50:02 AM »
On the issue of the expulsion of Gush Katif, Mosheh Katzav, has helped the side of evil
see for example http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/another-ring-leader-be-punished-destroying-gush-katif
On some other vital issues, Katzav has been an enemy of the true right, but I don't want to write details unless I have a source ready to quote.

As far as  did he or did  he not commit the crimes he is accused of, the truth is that even after the court, said he did it, I just don't know. Because, Israels' courts based on past statements and actions can't be trusted at all in these types of matters.
In our satisfaction of having gotten rid of another enemy of Gush Katif, we shouldn't do actions, that strengthen the credibility of our main enemy, the biased courts of Israel.

Offline wonga66

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2011, 04:47:30 AM »
This by Steven Plaut:


Yemini on the Katsav Affair


   While my skepticism about the Katsav verdict was the subject of
yesterday’s posting, I thought you would find Ben Dror Yemini’s take
on it of interest.  Yemini goes much further than I do in condemning
it.

    Yemini is the Deputy Editor of Maariv, Israel’s 2nd or 3rd largest
daily (depending on whether you count the freebie Israel Hayom as
one).  He is also a regular columnist and blogs.  He is somewhat
left-of-center, but not too far, and he is militantly Zionist.  He
grew up in a religious Yemenite family.  He is strongly critical of
the seditious Far Left and the “Post-Zionists” and devotes perhaps
half of his weekly weekend columns to attacking them.  (Some of the
rest of the time he attacks the Israeli Right.)  He admits repeatedly
in his piece that he is not a fan of Katsav and Katsav’s politics.

     Yemini’s two-page Maariv article on the Katsav verdict appears
today in Maariv, Dec 31.  It is too long to translate but I will
summarize it and paraphrase parts of it for you.  Perhaps someone will
translate the whole thing into English – if so, I will post it.

     Yemini’s column is titled “Judicial Disgrace.”  He begins by
paying lip service to feminists and to their attempts to make the
public aware of sexual mistreatment of women and other grievances.
(Ok, so I TOLD you he is Left of Center!)   But he then reminds his
readers of the long track record of the Israeli political and media
establishment (meaning the Left) in bashing Katsav.  It began when
Katsav first beat Shimon Peres in the 2000 vote for the Presidency.
Yemini recalls how numerous leftwing journalists (including leftwing
ultras Gideon Levy and Ron Myberg) in Israel compared the Katsav vote
victory to the murder of Yitzhak Rabin.  Amos Oz published at the time
a particularly offensive piece in Yediot Ahronot about the Katsav
victory, as the triumph of unenlightened religious people and
conservatives, and as the impudence of the “Second Israel” (meaning
lower-income Mizrachi and working-class Jews).  Israel’s leading
comedy television program, “Eretz Nehederet,” essentially the Israeli
“Saturday Night Live” (but not aired on Saturday night) then
“Palin-ed” Katsav, turning him into their favorite butte of mocking.

   Katsav was regularly vilified by the Israeli media.  After all, he
is not “one of us,” not a leftwing Ashkenazi yuppie.  He is a man who
rose from humble origins and poverty in a religious family of Iranian
Jews, living most of his life in an impoverished development town in
the Negev.  The three justices who just found Katsav guilty (they
included two women and the radical outspoken Arab judge George Kara)
can claim all they want that they were not influenced by the media
frenzy and assault against Katsav (writes Yemini), but their denials
are not persuasive.

    Yemini then reminds his readers how the whole prosecution case got
started.  It has dragged on for so many years that most have
forgotten.  It began when Katsav himself filed a complaint against the
woman (still nameless and referred to in the media as “A”), who had
been his Office Manager, when she had wanted to return to her previous
job and demanded back pay.  She was extorting and threatening Katsav
and he filed a formal complaint.  When Katsav refused he demands, Ms.
“A” hired herself a PR man and started issuing media attacks against
Katsav.

    That was when the first claims of sexual harassment were made by
her.  Note – they were being made by the same woman demanding to
return to employment with Katsav!  The PR people then linked “A” up
with Shelly Yachimovich.  The Shelly is the head of the Taliban wing
of the Labor Party.  She is a far-Leftist and ultra-feminist, dreams
of restoring to Israel the Stalinist central planning system that
operated here briefly in the 1950s.  The Shelly realized she had media
dynamite in “A”.  That led to the most disgraceful part of the whole
story.

    While “A” had never claimed she was raped, The Shelly appeared on
Channel Ten TV and announced that she (Shelly) knew that in fact “A”
had been raped by Katsav!!  The leftist media then opened a blitz
against Katsav and convicted him in the press (writes Yemini).

    The Shelly was then joined by Mani Mazuz, the leftist Attorney
General at the time, who pronounced Katsav guilty of rape even before
the investigation of the allegations had been conducted.

    Katsav attempted to defend himself in the media.  He made errors.
He bad-mouthed “A”.  He attempted to recruit Yemini himself to defend
him, and met with Yemini privately to state his case.  Yemini says
that, unlike Yachimovich, he does not engage in journalist trial by
newspaper.  But he then writes that if he had, he would have gone
public with a Katsav-is-Innocent proclamation.  The evidence and
material presented to Yemini by Katsav at the time, so Yemini writes
now, completely debunked what the rest of the media were running about
Katsav.  While Yemini says he was skeptical about many of the things
Katsav claimed to him at the time, later the Prosecutor conceded that
most of those points were correct.  Those confirmations came out when
the state was defending its offer of a plea bargain to Katsav against
the media onslaught that denounced the plea offer.

    There were senior prosecutors in the Israeli system who opposed
indicting Katsav altogether, and who were convinced that there was not
enough evidence to make a case.  The plea bargain offered Katsav, and
rejected by him, would have involved no jail time and a mere
concession by Katsav that he had sexually harassed or misbehaved.  The
prosecutors themselves did not believe “A”.  Their written response to
the complaints about the plea offer remains classified but is thought
to include detailed information on why the complaints about rape by
“A” were not credible and why “A” herself was not a credible
plaintiff.  In any case, the whole prosecution case was full of
inconsistencies, contradictions about facts and dates, and other
problems.

     None of this disproves the fact that Katsav often behaved badly
and improperly, writes Yemini.  (So did Clinton but the whole world
treats Clinton as a cute if naughty juvenile whose private life is no
one’s business. – SP)   It just means that the legal case, as opposed
to the media case, against Katsav was completely un-solid, writes
Yemini.

   The end of the story was that Katsav, contrary to the legal advice
he was getting, indignantly rejected the plea offer.  Had he accepted
it, it would long ago have been forgotten by a world that can barely
recall who Monica Lewinsky was.  Had he argued in court that at his
age most men are physically incapable of carrying out a rape, he also
might have been cleared.  (I assume his machismo did not let him raise
that claim!)  Instead, he is now probably to be sent to hard prison
time with actual criminals.   The Hebrew university leftwing sociology
professor accused by several students of raping them was never
prosecuted and keeps his university job.  The Haaretz journalist who
taught at Tel Aviv University and was accused of rape was never
prosecuted.

    One can only imagine what this is doing to Katsav's wife and
children.  One can imagine how serious is the risk now that he could
take his own life.

Offline cjd

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2011, 05:45:04 AM »
Well a case like this shows how easy it is to get into major trouble... katzav should have taken the plea bargain...As the article says he did behave badly which gave credibility to the claims of rape... It seems like this guy is left on the outside looking in which is not a good place to be... Is there any chance he can reopen his case?  Looks to me like he had better get use three hots and a cot... G-d willing he will have cell mates with better self control then he had.
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Offline wonga66

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2011, 07:10:43 PM »
THE LEGAL RAPING OF PRESIDENT KATSAV                                                                                                    by Barry Chamish
           
      Unlike the "experts" who say the conviction of ex-Pres. Katsav was a "victory" for Israeli justice, I actually looked at the notes from his trial. It is what is missing that stands out:

                  There are no rape kits.
                  There is no semen or DNA proof.
                  There are no professionals like doctors or police sex crimes experts.
                  There are no rape victims testifying in open court. Those prosecution witnesses testifying in closed court are not identified.
                  There is no physical evidence such as Katsav's hair or clothing.
                  There was no lie detector test of Katsav.
                  No victim went to the police after being raped. The police opened an investigation years after the alleged crimes allegedly took place.

     All, I mean all, that convicted Katsav were the testimonies of the victims and they were full of holes, often, in fact, not believable. One "victim" claims to have been raped in Katsav's office. Having, apparently, enjoyed the experience, she was raped long after, in Katsav's hotel room.
     Katsav claimed he was being framed and turned down a simple way out of jail. He would resign the Presidency after confessing to some minor charges. He rejected the deal and chose to be exonerated in court.  No one guilty would take this route.
     All signs point to Katsav being railroaded because the Israeli justice system is "victoriously" handpicked to be a rigged joke.
     If you accept any or even, all, of my observations, then you must ask, who wanted Katsav out of the Presidency?

**
     AND if you are reluctant to change your point of view, stop here and delete the rest. If you want, at least, to see the background of Katsav's railroading, keep reading even if you won't believe it.

**

     Katsav was the second President in a row to resign in scandal. Recall that before the last Presidential election, the President, Ezer Weizmann, was forced to resign because of gift-taking from the Geneva millionaire, Edouard Seroussi. I noted that Shimon Peres was about the only politician who knew European shenanigans. And I added, Peres WOULD run for President. I was right  about that. Where I blew it is that Peres would lose the vote to Moshe Katzav. In any SECRET vote, Peres' enemies will express themselves. A third of his Labor Party allies voted against him.  And thus, Katzav became the secret and sworn enemy of Shimon Peres. He doomed himself.
     But Peres first concentrated on a new challenge, becoming the Labor Party leader. In November '05, Peres lost again when Amir Peretz defeated him to become the Labor leader. Peres was again rejected by his own party. Peres now had two enemies to bring down to further his ambitions. And he got them both when the Lebanon War of '06 broke out on July 12.
Incredibly, the next day's first headlines were not of the new war, they were of rumors concerning Katsav's alleged rapes. For 33 days, Defense Minister Amir Peretz's unspeakable mishandling of the war pushed Katsav off the front page. This is not the place to discuss IDF C-O-S Dan Halutuz working with Peretz to keep infantry out of the war and thus prevent any chance of victory. Someday we'll discuss who Halutz was really taking his orders from.
     On August 25, Israel agreed to ceasefire talks in Rome which led to an 85% Catholic force called UNIFIL, keeping the peace between Israel and Hizbullah. On the same day, Israel Police opened its investigation of Moshe Katsav for serious sexual crimes.
      Katsav visited the Pope in 2002 and 2005. He was instructed to offer the Vatican sovereignty over all Christian sites in Israel. He refused and the Vatican and Peres were furious. One of the first acts of the replacement President, Peres, was:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/peres-wants-to-hand-over-christian-sites-in-israel-to-vatican-1.275332

President Shimon Peres is urging the government to yield control of key Christian holy sites to the Vatican, a position that is believed to be opposed by Interior Minister Eli Yishai.
The Vatican's longstanding demand that Israel transfer sovereignty of key Christian sites to the control of the Holy See has created dissension among senior officials in Jerusalem.
The Interior Ministry has vowed to retain control of the sites, calling relinquishment a "sacrifice" of Israeli sovereignty.
"This matter is under the minister's authority, and he is not prepared to sacrifice Israeli sovereignty, even if it is only symbolic," Yishai's spokesman Roi Rachmanovitch said.
Peres is pressing the government to agree to the Vatican's request that Israel surrender control of six religious sites, among them the Church of the Annunciation in Nazareth; the Coenaculum on Mount Zion in Jerusalem, where Jesus is said to have held The Last Supper; the Gethsemane, which sits at the foot of the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem; Mount Tabor; and the Church of the Multiplication, which hugs the shoreline of the Sea of Galilee.
Peres is lobbying Yishai to concede the sites to the Catholic Church, Army Radio reported.

        Let's make Peres the 3rd President to resign in crime and shame. We've got much better evidence than that gathered against Katsav that Peres, as director of the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission during the 50s, irradiated all Sephardic children in a ghastly nuclear experiment (look up the film The Ringworm Children. We know he knocked off Rehavam Zeevi
mere hours before he was to resign from the government because PM Sharon wouldn't fire him. Here is what Zeevi was planning to tell the Knesset in his resignation speech:

 "But what is understood in Washington is apparently not understood
here. Prime Minister Sharon, who himself fought for many years against
Arab terrorism, is not strong or consistent enough in this fight during his
tenure as Prime Minister. In order to keep Shimon Peres in the national
unity government, he gives in to Peres' dictates and allows him to continue
talking with the top brass of the evil Palestinian Authority, which is a
terrorist headquarters in every sense.
Peres conducts diplomatic negotiations, while the Palestinians continue to
shoot at our communities and on Jews - and he is doing all this just in
order to revive the Oslo process, which brought catastrophe upon us."

        And we know that Peres had a private meeting with Sharon in the Knesset, during which they shared tea, on Dec. 18, 2005. A half hour later Sharon had a stroke and was taken to the hospital by the bodyguard Yoram Rubin, the very guard who murdered Yitzhak Rabin. Here is correspondence with a top informant of mine:

> "Peres promised the pope East Jerusalem in May of 1992 and the Vatican wants to cash in now. But Sharon wasn't playing ball. In July of last year he actually banned diplomacy with the Vatican. So the Vatican tried working around him. In September they invited both Israeli chief rabbis to Rome to threaten the Jews if the holy sites of Jerusalem weren't handed over to them. In November, they hatched the Mount Zion plot, trading a Spanish church for the Last Supper room. President Katsav flew to the Vatican but Sharon still said no.
>     "Finally they knew Sharon had to go. Enter the apostolic nuncio Pietro Sambi. He plotted with Peres to finish Sharon and possibly supplied the poison Sharon drank in his final meeting with Peres on Dec. 18. On thing is certain, 18 hours before, after 8 1/2 years in Jerusalem, Sambi flew out for a new assignment in Washington.
>     "Once Olmert and Peres won the election, Peres flew to the Vatican taking with him a letter from Olmert to the pope. No one will say what was in the letter, but you can be sure he promised the pope 'his land' and the war drastic enough to give it to him."

     And here is my informant on my radio show spilling the beans.



     Come on now folks, let's make Peres resign the Presidency for the crime of raping Israel.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2011, 07:38:18 PM »
As can be seen at 1.37 in this clip
the Lubavitcher Rebbe is warning Katsav not to support "Land for Peace". Katsav ignored this warning, and is being theoditically punished, as is the theme of the song.

 :::D

Your presumptuousness knows no bounds!

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Mosheh katzav found guilty of rape
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2011, 02:26:49 AM »
If you (Wonga) are trying to suggest Katsav got a raw deal, nothing could be further from the truth. If he had accepted a plea bargain he would have received no punishment whatsoever.

Even Arab rapists generally get at least a few months in jail.