Author Topic: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?  (Read 16056 times)

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Offline briann

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2011, 07:17:11 PM »
He was born a christian, but he and the Nazi idologues main goal was to REPLACE christianity with a pagan ideology without a Jewish savior.

Towards the end of the Reich, they started to outlaw the use of Christian symbols.  They outlawed the Christian cross and replaced it with the Toten-Rune on Tombstones



They attempted to ban Christmas, but the Christians resisted too much, so they just started to replace all the images and symbols with NON-Christian symbols.

Offline christians4jews

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2011, 07:22:11 PM »
good posts guys, the jtfers have great knowledge on history.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2011, 07:25:08 PM »
Briann I do think that occultists were a very huge influence on Hitler too like Blavatsky, etc. and that's definitely not in line with Christianity at all.

Offline Lisa

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2011, 08:32:32 PM »
As Chaim stated on a past Ask JTF show, Hitler,yimach shemo, was never excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church.  Asking the reason for that is perfectly fair.  Chaim also pointed out that the concentration camps had chapels which read "Adolf Hitler is Jesus Christ's Answer to the Jews."  

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2011, 08:39:06 PM »
Technically, he was a nonobservant Catholic. In practical terms, he was a Norse pagan (Asatru).

He spoke about Christianity in an abstract sense frequently, because he knew that most Germans weren't ready to openly practice paganism yet, but that doesn't mean he was a Christian in any recognizable sense. (And I know full well that German "Christians" were pretty much the same as Arab "Christians", so don't think I am defending them.)

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2011, 08:42:34 PM »
As Chaim stated on a past Ask JTF show, Hitler,yimach shemo, was never excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church.  Asking the reason for that is perfectly fair.  Chaim also pointed out that the concentration camps had chapels which read "Adolf Hitler is Jesus Christ's Answer to the Jews."  
Yes, this is true, and needs to be said, but the Nazis certainly didn't speak from real Christianity in any way. Look at what happened to the Serb Christians under Nazism.

Real Christians got sent to the death camps and died just like 6 million Jews, or were massacred en masse on the spot like the Serbs.

Offline muman613

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2011, 08:44:22 PM »
hitler had a special hatred of the Jewish people. His greatest goal was to eliminate world Jewry.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/the_final_solution/
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2011, 08:49:13 PM »
Quote
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/the_final_solution/
.
.

UNPRECEDENTED

The Nazi attempt to deliberately, systematically eliminate an entire people from the planet was unprecedented in human history.

Hitler targeted the Jews for a specific reason, which was not just racial. The elimination of the Jews had a unique “status” in Hitler’s master plan. While he certainly killed millions of others (gypsies, communists, homosexuals, etc.) he made exceptions for all these groups. The only group for which no exception was made was the Jews—they all had to die.

Writes Lucy Dawidowicz in the War Against the Jews:

   “The final solution transcended the bounds of modern historical experience. Never before in modern history had one people made the killing of another the fulfillment of an ideology, in whose pursuit means were identical with ends. History has, to be sure, recorded terrible massacres and destructions that one people perpetrated against another. But all, however cruel and unjustifiable, were intended to achieve an instrumental ends, being means to ends and not ends in and of themselves.” (3)

In other words, the elimination of the Jews was not the means to an end. It was an end in itself. What that end was Hitler explained himself in his writings and speeches.

Hitler believed that before monotheism and the Jewish ethical vision came along, the world operated according to the laws of nature and evolution: survival of the fittest. The strong survived and the weak perished. When the lion hunts the herd the young, the sick and weak are always the first victims. Nature is brutal but nature is balanced. There is no mercy. So too in antiquity-the great empires-the Babylonians, Greeks and Romans conquered, subjugated and destroyed other peoples. They respected no borders and showed no mercy. This too Hitler viewed as natural and correct. But in a world operating according to a Divinely-dictated ethical system—where a G-d-given standard applies and not anyone’s might—the weak did not need to fear the strong. As Hitler saw it, the strong were emasculated-this was neither normal nor natural and in Hitler’s eyes, the Jews were to blame.

His plan was to take over the world, set up a pagan master race and return the world to what he viewed was its ideal natural state; a world “unpolluted” by Jewish ideas and Jewish off-shoots such as Christianity...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2011, 08:57:03 PM »
Indeed TBF many innocent people died at the hands of the evil nazis. Each one of them did not deserve what happened...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2011, 09:17:38 PM »
Hard to say really.  Some combination of pagan/nordic mythology and nominal catholicism.  On the other hand, Catholicism is a form of Christianity which he expressed his disgust for on some occasions, so maybe it was just a show and a power play to get the pope on his side any time he professed association with catholicism.  I'm not really sure. 

He definitely did express admiration for Islam because he viewed it as an acceptable form of enforced brutality.  That doesn't mean he adhered to the religion, obviously.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2011, 09:20:52 PM »
Hard to say really.  Some combination of pagan/nordic mythology and nominal catholicism.  On the other hand, Catholicism is a form of Christianity which he expressed his disgust for on some occasions, so maybe it was just a show and a power play to get the pope on his side any time he professed association with catholicism.  I'm not really sure. 

He definitely did express admiration for Islam because he viewed it as an acceptable form of enforced brutality.  That doesn't mean he adhered to the religion, obviously.
Look at Pedofront, some come out and openly espouse Asatru or similar beliefs and some claim to be Christians of some sort or another. I think Don Black and David Duke know better than to make a singular, once-and-for-all call for WNs to all convert to Asatru or Islam, since many are not ready for it, but any so-called Christian who is a practicing Nazi is pretty messed-up as it is.

I don't think Hitler actually deified himself though like someone else suggested; that was more Stalin.

Offline Boyana

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2011, 02:22:55 AM »
Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941

Offline Boyana

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2011, 02:25:39 AM »
As you know you can call yourself a Catholic and not follow any church teachings when we look at Catholicism today. But today the Pope is OKing prostitution and condoms...

PS: Did the church ever excommunicate him? I don't think so...


. Fidel Castro was excommunicated by Pope John XXIII in 1962 for simply being a communist.

If Communists can be excommunicated, why can’t Nazis?



Offline TheViper

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2011, 02:30:55 AM »
Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941
Link the quote
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Offline TheViper

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2011, 02:37:39 AM »
All active members of the Nazi party, and all leaders of the Nazi party, by the Conference of German Bishops, February, 1931
Since Hitler was a nazi and a member of his own party he himself must have been excommunicated roman catholic church
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Offline Boyana

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2011, 02:38:03 AM »
    AGAINST RELIGIOUS FOOLISHNESS
 
 



 
 

  
Hitler the Catholic

 

I have often reflected, wistfully, on how much happier modern history might have been had Hitler been brought up as an atheist, an agnostic, or, at least, a Unitarian. Born and bred a Catholic, he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the "Lord's work."

You will find it in Mein Kampf.- "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

Hitler said it again at a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews . . . The work that Christ started but could not finish, I--Adolf Hitler--will conclude."

In a Reichstag speech in 1938, Hitler again echoed the religious origins of his crusade. "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord's work. "

Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

There was really no reason for Hitler to doubt his good standing as a Catholic. The Catholic press In Germany was eager to curry his favor, and the princes of the Catholic Church never asked for his excommunication. Religions encourage their followers to hold authority in unquestioning respect; this is what makes devout religionists such wonderful dupes for dictators.

When Hitler narrowly escaped assassination in Munich in November, 1939, he gave the credit to providence. "Now I am completely content," he exclaimed. "The fact that I left the Burgerbraukeller earlier than usual is a corroboration of Providence's intention to let me reach my goal." Catholic newspapers throughout the Reich echoed this, declaring that it was a miraculous working of providence that had protected their Fuhrer. One cardinal, Michael Faulhaber, sent a telegram instructing that a Te Deum be sung in the cathedral of Munich, "to thank Divine Providence in the name of the archdiocese for the Fuhrer's fortunate escape. " The Pope also sent his special personal congratulations!

Later the Pope was to publicly describe Hitler's opposition to Russia as a "high-minded gallantry in defense of the foundation of Christian culture. "Several German bishops openly supported Hitler's invasion of Russia, calling it a "European crusade." One bishop exhorted all Catholics to fight for "a victory that will allow Europe to breathe freely again and will promise all nations a new future. "

Biographer John Toland wrote of Hitler's religion: "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of G-d. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of G-d - so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty. Himmler was pleased to murder with mercy. He ordered technical experts to devise gas chambers which would eliminate masses of Jews efficiently and 'humanely', then crowded the victims into boxcars and sent them east to stay in ghettos until the killing centers in Poland were completed."

Jews, of course, were not the only "holy" victims. In Yugoslavia, Hitler installed a Croatian, Ante Pavelic, as his puppet, and Pavelic, a Catholic like Hitler, began extermination of the Serbs, who were Greek Orthodox. One of my relatives by marriage is a Yugoslavian, a Serb, who survived World War II by going "underground" with the advent of Nazism in his country. Out of his immediate family of 17 (this includes his parents, siblings, aunts, uncles and first cousins), only three survived. His mother and sister just disappeared, his mother shortly after being given the opportunity to convert to Catholicism, an offer she refused. The Vatican was not unaware of the massacres conducted in Yugoslavia In the name of Catholicism, but Pope Pius remained diplomatically quiet. In fact, one of his actions was to receive Ante Pavelic in private audience, thereby giving his blessing to this regime.

War's causes, of course, are complex, but it would be difficult to overestimate the disastrous role religion played in World War 11. Distrust, fear and hatred of Jews was a lesson Hitler learned early in life. It was taught by his church and reinforced by his culture. It became his obsession, his version of "the Lord's work." That Hitler, that supreme villain of the 20th century, could see himself, and be seen by others, as "providentially" guided, protected and inspired should certainly serve as an ominous clue to the dangers of religious belief. just as the Vatican umbrella could be maneuvered to shield the massacres of Serbs by Catholics in Yugoslavia, so can religion validate any behavior, any atrocity, any war.

by Anne Nicol Gaylor., expert from Lead us Not Into Penn Station.
 
 
 

Offline TheViper

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2011, 02:42:15 AM »
I remember reading books in school that Hitler as well Geobbels tried in the late 20's early 30's to be excommunicated from the roman catholic church but it never happened.
Also from books I read once someone has died they cannot be excommunicated by the roman catholic church
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Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2011, 02:42:51 AM »
Why did the Church never excommunicate him? Catholic Church has two forms of excommunication. One dictated by the Vatican and another one in which the sinner incurs automatically as soon as he commits certain sins (murder, obviuosly genocide, abortion... fall in tha latter category). In the case of nazis, if they were baptized and considered Catholics, they became automatically excommunicatted when they comitted or supported the first murder. However, the automatic excommunication can, and sometimes is, declared formally by the Vatican. (In such cases, the Vatican does not excommunicate. They simply declare that the sinner has already excommunicated himself). So, the question is why did the Vatican never formally declare that nazi criminals had excommunicated themselves? They answer is most likely fear! Nazis could have easily destroyed the Vatican or assasinated catholic priests elsewhere if their excommunication were formalised, and certainly it wouldn't have saved one single life. Why would the Pope take a meassure that could lead to more murders? Even more, some priests could secretly save people as far as the church had no evident confrontation with the regime.
Schindler did not only abstain from openly critizing the nazis, but even joined the party to be able to save many Jews. He could have cried out: Nazi criminals! and be executed. He would have become a martyr, but unable to save even one life! If we can understand Schindler and others, why not underdstanding the Vatican's attitude?
If the Church leaders may be guilty of something, it's rather the anti-Semitc teaching some of them had spread in different periods of history that may have contributed to people's passiveness during the Holocaust. But once nazism had taken power, the Vatican could do nothing better, whether they wanted or not.

Offline Boyana

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2011, 02:43:01 AM »
http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm



Nazi photos
compiled by Jim Walker
created: 20 May 1998
additions: 02 July 2008


The following photos provide a pictorial glimpse of Hitler, how his Nazis mixed religion with government, and the support for Hitler by the Protestant and Catholic Churches in Germany. In, no way, does this gallery of photos intend to support Nazism or anti-Semitism, but instead, intends to warn against them.

Offline Boyana

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2011, 02:50:33 AM »
The following translation of the very important Article 16 of the Reichskonkordat was authorized by the Vatican:

Article 16

“Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of fealty either to the Reich Representative of the State concerned, or to the President of the Reich, according to the following formula:

“‘Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the [regional - EC] State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it.’”

Offline Eden Ben Yitzchak

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2011, 03:03:40 AM »
Hitler was just a crazy lunatic. That [censored] just wanted to kill many peoplz we was a m.f.

Offline Kerber

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2011, 03:05:14 AM »
Hitler was a believer of occultism("satanism" called in Christianity). So, he was not a Christian.
You have a documentary called "Hitler and occult", so you can see.
"His" ideas are the old ideas of pagans and satanists(that's why he hated Jewish people, because he hated the Creator). Today those ideas are again on the power, but this time almost everywhere on the Earth.


Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2011, 03:05:49 AM »
Hitler was just a crazy lunatic. That schvartza just wanted to kill many peoplz we was a m.f.


That's silly. How can you call him a Schwartza when he hated all non-white blondes?

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2011, 03:51:30 AM »

It seems clear to me that Hitler claimed to be a Christian because it helped him gain and maintain power. He found support among some evil members of the Church. But the true values of Christianity are not compatible with Nazism. Deep down, Hitler despised Christianity :

"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness...."

A.Hitler , Quoted from Albert Speer's memoirs


Offline Boyana

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Re: What religion do you honestly think Hitler believed in?
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2011, 04:10:22 AM »
http://www.catholicarrogance.org/Catholic/NaziLeadership.html


To be sure, the Roman Catholic Church wants to distance itself from all of these monsters now, but it made no attempt to do so at the time, when it could have made a tremendous impact. We only know of two individuals that Hitler killed personally, his wife Eva Braun, and himself. To kill ten million other people, Hitler needed millions of helpers. He didn't get those helpers from some planet in outer space like Mars. He got about two thirds of them from the two thirds of Germans who belonged to the Protestant churches and the other third from the third of Germans who identified themselves as Roman Catholics. The clergy all knew how much Hitler needed all of these helpers and how mad it would have made him if they were to tell the millions of their sheep how horribly sinful it was for them to have any part in the Jewish Holocaust. And the pope himself deliberately chose not to inform the consciences of his German subjects. As Lewy reported,
        "When Dr, Edoardo Senatro, the correspondent of L'Osservatore Romano in Berlin, asked Pius XII whether he would not protest the extermination of the Jews, the Pope is reported to have answered, "Dear friend, do not forget that millions of Catholics serve in the German armies. Shall I bring them into conflicts of conscience?" The Pope knew that the German Catholics were not prepared to suffer martyrdom for their Church; still less were they willing to incur the wrath of their Nazi rulers for the sake of the Jews whom their own bishops for years, had castigated as a harmful influence in German life." ... The failure of the Pope was a measure of the Church's failure to convert her gospel of brotherly love and human dignity into living reality."
(The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany, p 304 )