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Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

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Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« on: August 25, 2011, 08:58:57 AM »
by Rabbi Meir Kahane



What is the fundamental issue of the Holocaust that we avoid speaking about and that, when mentioned, is dismissed with a curt and swift non sequitur?

Why, surely it is the issue that, unless raised and discussed and answered, will guarantee yet another and another national catastrophe. Surely it is an issue that goes to the very nature of the Jewish People, its meaning and role in life, its direction and fate.

What is the fundamental issue that must be met and grappled with?

Why surely the one that asks the question: Where was G-d? How could He have permitted it?

Our failure to grapple with this issue (instead we corrupt our souls by the terrible reply: It is a question no one can answer) has caused us to be silent accomplices in the worst of all Jewish sins and crimes - Hirúf v'gidúf, blasphemy against G-d; open insult and attack on His Name - Hillúl Hashem, Desecration of G-d's Name.

How dare we sit by quietly while Jewish ignoramuses and blasphemers speak of the "death of G-d", and His Name is dragged through the mud of a theology and philosophy of heresy?

How dare we allow Him to be blasphemed and our children to be turned down the path of apostasy and atheism because our reply to the attacks of the blasphemers is: "No one can answer the question!"

Of course there is an answer! It is a Jewish answer. But, of course, it is the kind of answer that the irreligious Jews, the secularists, the impossible Reformers and Conservatives simply cannot cope with.

It is an answer that can only come from a Jew who believes fully and completely and it is the answer that can only enter the mind and soul of a Jew who believes fully and completely.

And since the non-Orthodox Jew is essentially an atheist (though lacking the courage to admit it), the answer to the Holocaust is simply impossible for him to accept.

And as for the Orthodox Jew, in such great measure, he is responsible for laying the groundwork for the inability of Jews to understand or accept the Jewish answer to the Holocaust. Let me explain and you, dear reader, study the words carefully, They will pain you, but they can also save you.

The reason for the Holocaust, the Jewish reason and answer, is the one that rises out of the fundamental of fundamentals of Torah. What happens to the Jewish People is dependent on their actions and they way they live their lives.

The Jewish People is a Chosen people; chosen for a mission it cannot avoid or escape. At Sinai, the covenant bound us to a life of truth or falsehood, of life or death. "See, I have set before you this day, life and good, and death and evil... And if thy heart turns away and you will not hear... I tell you this day that you will surely perish... I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse; therefore choose life, that both your and your seed may live. [Devarim/Deuteronomy 30:15,17,18,19 selections therein]

The clear, direct mission and warning to the Jewish people. The open message of reward and punishment. If the Jew will obey the Torah in all its ways, he will have life, glorious and majestic. If not, he will have death, terrible and
cursed.

Of course we can answer it; but the irreligious Jew, the one who does not accept the Divinity of Torah, refuses to accept an answer that lays the blame upon him, upon the Jew who - knowing of the warning - ignored it and disdained it.

No, since it is impossible to accept the relationship between Jewish suffering and failure to obey the Law, one must blame G-d. One must create the image of Jewish people in Europe that was saintly and pious and observant, and thus one must ask how the modern G-d, a beaming Santa Claus who would never take serious our desecration of mitzvót (commandments), could do such a thing. And, of course, using that as a premise, "there is no G-d..."

And the Orthodox Jew joins in. He creates a picture of European Jewry that must lead to agonized and perplexed questioning of G-d. He creates a picture of saintly men that must lead to a vision of a G-d that is a cruel G-d who punishes a people who, for the most part, were religious and observant and if so, how could He do such a thing unless He does not exist or "there is no answer..."

The picture that is handed down to the American Orthodox youth, of the yeshivas of an East European Jewry that was pious and traditional and observant is one that must be destroyed because it is false.

It is an image that the yeshiva world gave us in its desire to negate the present material western one. But by their falsely idealizing Man, they have laid the groundwork for the desecration of G-d.

And as for the Orthodox Jew, in such great measure, he is responsible for laying the groundwork for the inability of Jews to understand or accept the Jewish answer to the Holocaust. Let me explain and you, dear reader, study the words carefully, They will pain you, but they can also save you.

The reason for the Holocaust, the Jewish reason and answer, is the one that rises out of the fundamental of fundamentals of Torah. What happens to the Jewish People is dependent on their actions and they way they live their lives.

The Jewish People is a Chosen people; chosen for a mission it cannot avoid or escape. At Sinai, the covenant bound us to a life of truth or falsehood, of life or death. "See, I have set before you this day, life and good, and death and evil... And if thy heart turns away and you will not hear... I tell you this day that you will surely perish... I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse; therefore choose life, that both your and your seed may live. [Devarim/Deuteronomy 30:15,17,18,19 selections therein]

The clear, direct mission and warning to the Jewish people. The open message of reward and punishment. If the Jew will obey the Torah in all its ways, he will have life, glorious and majestic. If not, he will have death, terrible and
cursed.

Of course we can answer it; but the irreligious Jew, the one who does not accept the Divinity of Torah, refuses to accept an answer that lays the blame upon him, upon the Jew who - knowing of the warning - ignored it and disdained it.

No, since it is impossible to accept the relationship between Jewish suffering and failure to obey the Law, one must blame G-d. One must create the image of Jewish people in Europe that was saintly and pious and observant, and thus one must ask how the modern G-d, a beaming Santa Claus who would never take serious our desecration of mitzvót (commandments), could do such a thing. And, of course, using that as a premise, "there is no G-d..."

And the Orthodox Jew joins in. He creates a picture of European Jewry that must lead to agonized and perplexed questioning of G-d. He creates a picture of saintly men that must lead to a vision of a G-d that is a cruel G-d who punishes a people who, for the most part, were religious and observant and if so, how could He do such a thing unless He does not exist or "there is no answer..."

The picture that is handed down to the American Orthodox youth, of the yeshivas of an East European Jewry that was pious and traditional and observant is one that must be destroyed because it is false.

It is an image that the yeshiva world gave us in its desire to negate the present material western one. But by their falsely idealizing Man, they have laid the groundwork for the desecration of G-d.

By painting the East European Jew as a saint, they designed a G-d of cruelty and irrationality. And that most terrible of sins must be ended: We must save G-d and sanctify His Name by telling the truth about European Jewry in the years preceding the Holocaust. Then and only then will we be able to tell our children and all Jews the truth of the Holocaust.

The false idealizing of the Jewry of Eastern Europe is worse than foolishness. In the words of Kohelet (Ecclesiastes), "Say not: 'How was it that the former days were better than these?' For it is not out of wisdom that you inquire concerning this." [Kohelet/Ecclesiastes 7:10] Then and only then can we save G-d from blasphemy and ourselves from future horrors. Then and only then can we honestly and truly say: "All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth unto such as keep His covenant and His testimonies." [Tehillim/Psalms 25:10]

Of course we know the real truth of the situation and from that comes the answer, if we wish to be honest. Then and only then can we reply to the wicked and the honestly confused both - honestly. For in the words of Tehillim: "The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him, and His covenant to make them know it" [Tehilllim/Psalms 25:14] and Mishlei/Proverbs: "Men of evil will not understand justice but those who seek the Lord will understand everything." [Mishlei/Proverbs 28:5]

Yes, as the nineteenth century passed into its third quarter, the Jew of Russia and Poland was, indeed, observant. But what else could he be?

The overwhelming number of Jews lived in a Pale of Settlement that restricted them to the shtetl, the village, where they were isolated from the gentile world, barred from participating in anything else except the society of the shtetl. And that society was religious in toto.

What Jew, even if he wanted to, was prepared to rebel against the society that laid down the religious rules of life?

Who was prepared to accept the ostracism that would be his inevitable punishment if the dared to throw off the halachá that was more than religion in the shtetl, but the entire social fabric of the life of the Jew?

And so, of course, the Jew was "religious". He had no other choice.

But once that choice arrived, look at what happened! And in such a short span of time! The Enlightenment that began to arrive in Eastern Europe in the last third of the nineteenth century swept away, in a relatively few years, a society and structure that had been built up for centuries. The great Torah centers spawned, overnight, a rebellion and revolution that uncovered the reality of Jewish "religiosity".

The same Vilna that had become a byword for piety and Torah learning, the home of the Gaon, the "Jerusalem of Lithuania," now gave birth to' the Jewish labor movement, the Bund, a bitterly anti-religious and anti-nationalistic group that saw Jews, who just yesterday were "religious", flocking to its ranks to spout atheistic socialism.

The Poland and Russia and Lithuania and Galicia, the areas of the Va'ad Arba Ha'aratzot (Council of the "Four Lands" of the 17th Century Kingdom of Poland), the places that had given us the Rama and the Shach and Chassidism and the great yeshivas, overnight gave birth to Jewish communism and socialism and secular Zionism and assimilation. The door was barely opened to enlightenment and emancipation and the Jew rushed to be a Universalist and to throw away Judaism.

This was "religion". This was a "pious, saintly, committed Jewish community" that was cruel and unjustly allowed to be slaughtered by G-d? Hardly. The Jews who, arriving in America from centuries of "religion" and who threw away their tefillín (phylacteries) and their Shabbat at the first opportunity, symbolized so many other Jews who remained behind. It was not "religion" that had marked them but a social system of ritual that was observed by most only because the outside gentile world refused to allow them entry to it, and there to throw off the yoke of heaven.

The moment the barriers dropped, the Jew rebelled. This was the reality, and the fault dear Jew, lies not in our G-d but in ourselves.

And there was of course, more. There was the terrible class struggle within East European Jewry.

There was the terrible oppression of Jewish workers and proletariat by the wealthy Jews, the parnessim, the communal leaders.

Not for nothing did the Bund and communism succeed so easily in attracting poor Jewish workers to their ranks.

The low wages and horrible working conditions in the factories owned by Jews are epitomized in the classic story told in the name of the saintly Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berdichev who once visited a matzah bakery on the eve of Passover.

There, he saw the terrible conditions from dawn to dusk. "Dear G-d", he said, lifting his eyes unto heaven. "What liars are the gentiles! They accuse us of using gentile blood in our matzah. It is not true. We use Jewish blood..."

And too few know of the black chapter of the Hatufím, the kidnapped Jewish children of Czarist Russia. When the Czar decreed that Jewish children be drafted as "Cantonists" in the army for 25 years, the rabbis declared that the quota imposed on each community be filled by casting lots to see which child would be drafted.

Tragically, the wealthy communal leaders would hire gentiles to kidnap the poor Jewish children, lock them in the synagogue and keep them to be turned over to be Czarists.

The lack of Ahavat Yisrael, love of Jews, cried out to the Heavens! Was this "religion"? Was this a saintly Jewish community that was cruelly and unjustly slaughtered by G-d? Hardly. The fault lies not in our G-d, but in ourselves.

And this lack of unity and love was epitomized, too, in the incredible number of machlokes, of bitter arguments and splits within the Jewish community, a sin'át Hinám, a needless hatred that split communities and families into warring camps of enemies.

What we have seen in the disgusting attacks of hatred between Satmar and Belz or Satmar and Lubavitch is only a small portion of the bitter hatred between misnagdim (religious Jews who disagreed with Hassidism) and Hassidim and between Hassidic groups themselves, in Europe.

The bitter divisions between Jews was told to me as a child by my father, of blessed memory, who described to me the bitter split between the Sanz and Rizhin, a hatred that reached its climax with Hassidim going to the Western Wall to put the Sanzer Rebbe, the great Divrei Chayim, into Hérem (a term similar to excommunication). And at a Shabbat seudá shlishít (third Sabbath meal, eaten shortly before the prayers ending the Sabbath), a Hassid attempted to stab the Divréi Hayím...

And this terrible, terrible hatred was long ago, set up by the Rabbis as an unpardonable sin with a terrible, terribly clear and precise warning:

"How severe is maHlóket, division and split! The Court of Heaven does not punish until one is over the age of 20 and the court on earth from the age of 13, but in the dispute of KoraH, children of one day were burned and swallowed up by the earth..." (Tanchuma, Korach 3) And the Rabbis in Shabbat (33b): "When there are righteous in the generation, the righteous are caught for the sins of the generation. When there are no righteous, then little children are caught for the sins of the generation (this is the explanation for the million and a half Jewish children murdered by the Nazis in the death camps). Let each of us think long and carefully about this. And let us search our souls.

And let us remember, on top of all the sins and the reality of Jewish crimes, the refusal to grasp the Land of Israel to our bosom. "And they despised the desirable land," is the Biblical condemnation of the generation of the desert and its great scholars and leaders who preferred to return to Egypt rather than go to the Land of Israel.

Their actions led to the night of "weeping for generations," Tisha B'Av. What shall we say about the rejection of Eretz Yisrael in the decades preceding the Holocaust by so many great religious leaders in Europe? That, too, must be added to the reality of East European Jewry.

It is time to put an end to the nonsense of "we cannot know the reasons". That answer guarantees the turning away of Jewish youth.

It is time to bury the myth of East European Jewry that was pious and saintly. That insures the creation of a Jewish G-d who is senselessly cruel.

It is time to put an end to the indictment of G-d, to Hirúf v'gidúf, blasphemy against the Lord. A Jewish People that clings to the Law, truly and completely, will be saved from Holocausts. And one which rejects it and which turns it into a ritualistic sociological fraud will suffer for it. And until we learn this, that which was will, G-d forbid, be again.

But do not blame G-d. He remains the One whose duty compels us "to declare that the Lord is just, He is my rock and there is no unrighteousness in Him." [Tehillim/Psalms 92:15]

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2011, 03:36:26 PM »


Who ever claimed that East European Jewry was perfect ? There is not a single Jewish community that is "perfect", whatever that word may mean... So all the Jews in the world should be raped, tortured and thrown into gas chambers because they are not pious and observant enough ? If this way of reasoning is followed, then the Israelis must brace themselves for a new Shoah because the average Israeli is less pious and observant than the average East European Jew was... Not to mention American Jews...

The one idea that I agree with in this text is that it is foolish and superficial to indict G-d because of the Shoah.
The fact that the Shoah happened certainly doesn't mean that there is no G-d, just as, more generally, the fact that terrible tragedies do happen is not proof that G-d doesn't exist. But not because the victims are actually guilty and deserve what happens to them as suggested by this text !! Yes, innocent people do suffer. Yes, a lot of great Jews died during the Shoah - and many Judenrats survived. In my opinion, Rabbi Kahane makes the same mistake as the people whom he criticizes : he assumes that everything that happens in this world is the direct consequence of G-d's will. If you make that assumption, you are left with two possible conclusions which are both absurd :
1) "G-d is unjust and cruel", and this leads you either to atheism, as rightfully denounced by Rabbi Kahane, or to meaningless mystery ("G-d's ways are incomprehensible").
2) "G-d's justice, by definition, is perfect, so if something bad happens to someone in this world, they must be guilty", and this leads you to insanely blame the victims as Rabbi Kahane does in this text (sorry if some of you find it offensive that I would criticize Rabbi Kahane, but, as much as I admire him, he is a human being after all, and I was offended by the way he blames European Jews who were butchered during WWII).

Yes, G-d's justice is perfect, but G-d's justice applies to the next world, not to this one. This world we are living in is a test. G-d has created us with free will. As a general rule, G-d does not intervene in this world, except for miracles, which, by definition, are not many. He watches us, judges the way we think, feel and act. He reads through our hearts like an open book. Of course, G-d did not want the Shoah to happen. Of course, the Shoah was cruel and unfair. Of course, there is a lot of injustice in this world. But G-d wants us to understand that life in this world is very short and that we must do everything we can to improve this world and remain faithful even when terrible tragedies strike us. That is how we can deserve the next life.
 

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2011, 03:48:38 PM »

May the memory of all the wonderful European Jews who died in the Shoah be eternally blessed. I will NEVER let them down and I will ALWAYS stand up against anyone who belittles them.

Offline muman613

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2011, 04:10:04 PM »
I believe that there were many good Jews who died in the Shoah as there were many good Jews who died in the Destruction of the Temple. The issue is not about individual righteousness but of communal righteousness. Sometimes the good Jew dies alongside the not so good Jew... That does not mean that the punishment was not deserved against the entire People of Israel.

This concept is repeated several times in the Torah. Even though many Jews were not directly involved in the Sin of the Calf they were punished and they share the blame of the erev rav who actually committed the aveirah.

I understand what Rabbi Kahane says and I truly believe it. This is not casting any negativity on those who perished in the Shoah. All Rabbis agree that everyone who suffered in the Nazi Churban have been purged of any impurity and their souls are certainly seated amongst the righteous in Gan Eden.

PS: I actually believe that 9/11 was a punishment against all the Jews who stood idle while the Germans were gassing our brothers and sisters in the chambers.. My brother who was a good man was destroyed...


I also find it hard to understand Yaakov who does not believe that Hashem is the absolute master of everything, master of history, master of time, master of space, and he knows the thoughts of all his creations. This is the bedrock of pure Faith and Emmunah... Do you truly believe that someone can defy the master plan of G-d?


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2011, 04:41:03 PM »

I also find it hard to understand Yaakov who does not believe that Hashem is the absolute master of everything, master of history, master of time, master of space, and he knows the thoughts of all his creations. This is the bedrock of pure Faith and Emmunah... Do you truly believe that someone can defy the master plan of G-d?


I think the reason why this world is far from perfect is because Hashem does not intervene in it in general (except for miracles). He has created it, the laws of nature, the creatures - and he has endowed them with the ability to evolve, and then he has basically hidden himself, staying invisible in the background. He is watching us. Since Hashem is perfect, there is obviously a reason why He does not intervene in human affairs as a general rule. The reason is because He has created us with free will so that we can be judged according to our moral credit. If we were puppets in His hands, how could we have free will ? So Hashem does not punish and reward in this world. This world is a very temporary passage and it is essential that we should be allowed to act freely in it for Hashem to be able to judge us.
I do believe that Hashem knows all the thoughts of His creations.

Offline muman613

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2011, 04:47:06 PM »
I think the reason why this world is far from perfect is because Hashem does not intervene in it in general (except for miracles). He has created it, the laws of nature, the creatures - and he has endowed them with the ability to evolve, and then he has basically hidden himself, staying invisible in the background. He is watching us. Since Hashem is perfect, there is obviously a reason why He does not intervene in human affairs as a general rule. The reason is because He has created us with free will so that we can be judged according to our moral credit. If we were puppets in His hands, how could we have free will ? So Hashem does not punish and reward in this world. This world is a very temporary passage and it is essential that we should be allowed to act freely in it for Hashem to be able to judge us.
I do believe that Hashem knows all the thoughts of His creations.

I have never heard that... I have heard rabbis say that what you said is not the Jewish position. According to the explanations I have heard from several Orthodox Rabbis that Hashem is intimately involved in every day activity. The concept that Hashem was the 'watchmaker' who created and then left it up to its own device is a very cold and sad way to look at Hashem. Have you ever heard of the term Hashgacha Pratis {Divine Providence}?

Let me find some explanations of what I am trying to explain to you:



http://www.aish.com/h/pes/t/g/48968811.html

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This conundrum caused philosophers to devise theories which gave G-d credit for creating the world, but effectively dismissed Him for the long haul. Thus, the Watchmaker Theory: Just as the watchmaker makes the watch and sets its mechanism in motion, at which point his job is done, so too G-d set the laws of nature in motion, after which, thank You very much, His services were no longer required.

In other words, G-d's laws of nature work independently of Him, thus producing random effects -- such as terminally ill children -- in which G-d cannot intervene. He has turned over the keys of the car to nature, and, no matter how recklessly nature drives, G-d is confined to the back seat.

A corollary of this theory is that G-d neither knows nor cares what transpires in the lives of individuals. (Because if He did know or care, obviously everyone would be healthy, wealthy, and wise.)

This concept is anathema to Judaism. Judaism proclaims that nothing happens in the cosmos -- no electron encircles an atomic nucleus, no cell divides, no star is born or dies -- without Divine will animating it at every nanosecond. As the blessing before drinking a glass of water states: "Everything exists by Your word." Translate: If G-d did not will that glass to be full of molecules of H2O at this moment, poof! It simply would not exist.

This is the real meaning of the oneness of G-d, which Judaism obsesses on: there are no forces of any kind independent of G-d. Period. G-d not only made the watch, but His will keeps it ticking, His energy animates its atoms and molecules, and His providence decides who will own it and for how long.

http://www.aishdas.org/asp/succosSh.shtml

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The connection between change, creation, and sustenance is critical. Deism is a school of philosophy which supports "The Watchmaker Theory". In it, G-d is compared to a watchmaker, and the universe, a watch. Just as a watchmaker can make a watch, wind it up, and leave it to run its own, they assert that the universe, although created by G-d, was left on its own since then.

This theory is logically unsound. G-d created everything. This means that matter, and therefor space and time, were created by Him. If He created time, then He can't be bound by it. For Him there is no past, present and future, no before and after. Thus, it is meaningless to say that He created the universe and afterwards left it to run on its own. "Afterwards" is meaningless with respect to Hashem. When He created the world, He created every moment of history equally, since "history" is also a term meaningful only from our perspective. This implies that what we call "creation" is actually just the first moment, by our reckoning, of a continuing state of Divine Sustenance. For this reason, Succos, celebrating sustenance, is juxtaposed in the year with Rosh Hashana, the anniversary of the creation of the world.

We are left, though, with our original pasuk. When it talks about sending bread "on the face of the waters", for which symbolic message is the water being used?

One could understand the pasuk in each of three different lights. Shlomo could be telling us to cast are bread out to help another, even though we see it as casting our resources into a sea of change. This is the S'phornu's understanding of the pasuk. One should be helpful, even when there is no personal profit involved.

Rashi interprets this pasuk as an exhortation to do favors for your fellow man, for your kindness will be repaid to you. "Send your bread upon the face of the waters", give your aid to someone else. Your possessions should be contributed to the sustenance of another, in a true demonstration of imitatio dei.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/80723/jewish/Brief-on-Hashgachah-Pratis.htm

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Chapter1: Brief on Hashgachah Pratis

    The following brief was written to the renown Rosh Yeshivah, Rabbi Dovber Rivkin. It was not dated, but from Rabbi Rivkin’s reply, it is apparent that it was written before 18 Av, 5703.


Divine Providence--An overview of the different conceptions advanced by the Torah sages preceding the Baal Shem Tov, and that advanced by the Baal Shem Tov

I. The Conception of the Baal Shem Tov

Divine providence involves every particular occurrence that affects man and also that affects inanimate matter, plants, and animals. This conception is explained in the following maamarim which are in my possession: Derech Chayim, Shaar HaTeshuvah, ch. 9, the maamar entitled Es Havayah Heemarta, 5678; the maamar entitled HaTei Elokai, 5694; Likkutei Dibburim, Yud-Tes Kislev, 5694, secs. 3-4.

The maamar entitled Al Kein Yomru, 5696, makes an even more inclusive statement:

As explained by our master, the Baal Shem Tov, not only are all the particular activities of the created beings [controlled by] Divine providence. This providence is the life-energy of the created being and maintains its existence. Moreover, every particular movement of an individual created being has a connection to the intent of the creation as a whole…. A slight movement of one blade of grass fulfills G-d’s intent for the creation as a whole.

Note a: The statements concerning Divine providence in Tanya, Shaar HaYichud VehaEmunah, ch. 2, and Iggeres HaKodesh, Epistle 25, involve the general concept of Divine providence. For there are people who deny it and even its possibility despite the fact that they admit that the entire creation was brought into being ex nihilo by G-d’s word, as apparent from [the Alter Rebbe’s] rebuttal of their position. In another source, their position is explained. They maintain that the creation was brought into being through a downward cause-and-effect directed chain of sequences. In such a situation, the effect [i.e., the lower level,] bring about changes in the cause [the higher level]. Therefore, according to their conception, it is impossible for G-d to invest Himself and manifest His providence in the lowly worlds, for that would be lowering Himself (Likkutei Torah, the second maamar entitled Shishim Heimah, sec. 2). And doing so would bring about multiplicity within Him [as it were] (Torah Or, the maamar entitled Eirda Na). Therefore they maintain that “G-d abandoned the earth,”1 and He is merely “the G-d of gods.”2 For this same reason, they deny the possibility of miracles (Torah Or, the maamar entitled ViEileh Shmos).

The rebuttal of their position is that on the contrary, we are forced to say that the power which brings an entity into being [from absolute nothingness] must be continually invested in that entity. Thus He is continuously found even in the lower worlds (see the discussion of this subject in Pelech HaRimon, [Sefer Bereishis,] by Rabbi Hillel Paritcher, the maamar entitled Eirda Na , sec. 2).

For a good discussion on the topic of 'Free Will' see Rabbi Akiva Tatz discussion:

« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 04:52:15 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 05:24:03 PM »
I am not sure there is a contradiction between the notion of a continuing state of Divine Sustenance and what I said. G-d sets the rules and He is obviously free to maintain them or to change them. I agree that, ultimately, there are no forces of any kind independent of G-d. But, to our finite and limited perception, it is as though the world was running on its own, independently of G-d, with regularities that are captured by scientific laws written in mathematical form.
Also, I didn't say that there was no divine presence in this world. Of course there is. The connection to Hashem is perceivable in the Shekhinah.

Offline muman613

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2011, 05:56:25 PM »
I am not sure there is a contradiction between the notion of a continuing state of Divine Sustenance and what I said. G-d sets the rules and He is obviously free to maintain them or to change them. I agree that, ultimately, there are no forces of any kind independent of G-d. But, to our finite and limited perception, it is as though the world was running on its own, independently of G-d, with regularities that are captured by scientific laws written in mathematical form.
Also, I didn't say that there was no divine presence in this world. Of course there is. The connection to Hashem is perceivable in the Shekhinah.

Yes, also I am not disagreeing with you entirely. I think I understand where you are coming from by saying that. I just work very hard every day to keep a strong Emunah/Bitachon and in order to do so it is important to see everything coming from Hashem in one way or another. If you are interested in this 'philosophy' then I recommend listening to Rabbi Bentzion Shafier who explains it very methodically.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline HEBREWHONOR

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2011, 06:10:54 PM »
yaakov - You're missing the point . the article speak not against european jews for being european jews, nor say that by principle they sin, which sounded like the impression you had with a need to defend them ,as if they were some object of an attack . you're taking this in a very wrong direction as if the article placed some dark cloud over europian jewry,While the article refer specifically to those who claim "why did g-d allow this to happen".
rabbi meir kahane hy"d hence gave the explanation in that manner,that is in fact the answer of g-d  ... jews back then (again ,not all of them of course ) were not perfect , and g-d told us very clearly that there will be "hester panim" ,if we will sin at the levels it reached back then "Then My anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall come upon them; so that they will say in that day: Are not these evils come upon us because our g-d is not among us? And I will surely hide My face in that day for all the evil which they shall have wrought " ( dvarim see chapter 31 and 28)

This is what G-d himself said as an explanation for the jews who will ask "why", as the reason . rabbi meir kahane hy"d only proved how precise it actually was. The fact it happened in europe , have nothing to do with it . its just the historical place of events.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 06:16:11 PM by HEBREWHONOR »

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2011, 07:22:06 PM »
The one thing that stands out to me about the Shoah is that the highest percentage of deaths was suffered by the anti-Zionist Chasidim of eastern Europe.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2011, 09:25:10 PM »
Speaking of the bad things done by Eastern European Jews, this part of Yosef Andarian's post really jumped out at me:

Quote
And too few know of the black chapter of the Hatufím, the kidnapped Jewish children of Czarist Russia. When the Czar decreed that Jewish children be drafted as "Cantonists" in the army for 25 years, the rabbis declared that the quota imposed on each community be filled by casting lots to see which child would be drafted.

Tragically, the wealthy communal leaders would hire gentiles to kidnap the poor Jewish children, lock them in the synagogue and keep them to be turned over to be Czarists.

Did those Jews really hire gentiles to kidnap Jewish children and turn them over to the Czarists?  That's very sick judenrat behavior.  I want to know more about that.

It reminds me of a blog post I read about Jews hiding in the basement, which criticizes today's American Jews for not defending their women. Here's the link:

http://www.israpundit.com/archives/38122

The author also brought up the poet Chaim Bialik, who, in his poem "The City of Slaughter" wrote about how Jewish men during the Kishinev pogrom of 1903 hid while their women were being raped and murdered, which is the ultimate in sick, self-hating behavior. 

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2011, 09:57:16 PM »
While I'm on the subject of Chaim Bialik.  I found this interesting commentary piece by Daniel Gordis about Bialik and the Israeli poet Natan Alterman, who both seemed to believe that the purpose of having a Jewish state was to change the nature of a Jew from an eternal victim.  Although it was written more than three years ago, it's still very relevant. I'm bolding the parts that jumped out at me:

http://www.shalem.org.il/Articles/Daniel-Gordis-The-shame-of-it-all.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The shame of it all

by Daniel Gordis

7 March, 2008

There were days, and they were not that long ago, when Zionism was about something different.  Days when Zionists could articulate what the purpose of Jewish Statehood was, days when Israelis understood that having a state was about changing the existential condition of the Jew.  Not anymore.

 Hayyim Nachman Bialik, writing in 1905 shortly after the slaughter in Kishinev, understood that the very essence of Jewish existence had to change.  What else could he possibly have been saying in his epic poem, "The City of Slaughter" (scroll down to the two paragraphs that begin with the lines "Descend then, to the cellars of the town"), when he describes the mass rape scene in which Jewish women are helpless victims and Jewish men are powerless to intervene?  In fact, for Bialik, the villains of the scene are not the Cossacks; rape and murder are simply what Cossacks do.  The problem with what happened in Kishinev, Bialik intimates with his bitter irony, rests with the Jewish men.  It's bad enough that they were too weak to intervene, to defend their wives, their sisters, their mothers and their daughters, though that is clearly lamentable.  But worse than that, they were too frightened to even try.  And even worse than that, Bialik says, is that when the slaughter and the butchery were over, these men looked down at the broken bodies of the women that they had supposedly once loved, and instead of holding them, instead of telling them that they still loved them, instead of assuring them that they would take care of them no matter what, they gazed at these violated, half-dead women, and saw a halakhic question.  "Is my wife," the Kohanim in Bialik's poem want to know, "still permitted to me?"

It makes no difference whether or not anyone in Kishinev really asked that question, or thought to.  Bialik is not a journalist in this poem.  He's a diagnostician, describing the human (or no longer human) condition of the Jew.  And what he wants us to know is that what is wrong with the Jews is that they have come to accept their victimization as part of nature.  They're no longer shocked by what is done to them, no longer infuriated by their own powerlessness.  These Jewish men, their humanity too eroded by years of religious escapism and yeshiva study for them to see the broken women they should have loved as anything other than halakhic questions, aren't people anymore.  Real people, Bialik suggests, simply don't stand by and watch their family members get raped and slaughtered and do nothing about it.   Even if you'll get killed in the process, you try to defend the people you love.  When you no longer defend your family, he intimates, you're not human, you're sick.  The Jews are sick, he says, their souls eroded by passivity, by weakness, by fear.  And the cure, we know not from this poem but from much of what he writes, is a Jewish homeland. 

Just over forty years later, with much water under the bridge and six million Jewish men, women and children having been ushered heavenward through smokestacks across Eastern Europe while the world either conspired to assist in the murder or simply watched and pretended to be aghast, the State of Israel was about to be born.  And Natan Alterman, who in some ways had replaced Bialik as the poet laureate of the Zionist movement, wanted Jews to understand what was unfolding.  It wasn't just a country that they were getting; it was purpose, salvation.  The Jews would not simply have a State; the Jews would be transformed.

And thus, in "The Silver Platter" (a translation one can quibble with, but the best that I've found on the web), when the whole nation assembles to receive the "unique miracle", they are assembled not at Sinai, but in their homeland.  And they are awaiting not Torah, but Statehood.  Independence, not religion, is what will save the Jews, Alterman is effectively saying.  It's a step beyond Bialik.  In Bialik's poem, the Jew in Europe is dying, but there's no clear solution.  Forty years later, after the UN had voted on the Partition Plan and Israel was about to be created, Alterman believed that the solution was at hand.

Alterman clearly shares Bialik's disdain for what they both see as Judaism's religiously induced passivity.  In his poem, as the people awaits its transformative moment, State replaces Torah.  And if you look carefully, and compare the biblical account of the giving of the Torah at Sinai (especially Exodus 19), you'll see other differences.  In the Biblical account, Moses tells the men not to approach a woman (verse 15), but here, the boy and the girl are inseparable, and virtually indistinguishable.  In the Torah, the Israelites are commanded to wash their clothes (verse 10); but in the poem, the boy and the girls are caked with dirt, and they do not wash.  Saving the Jews, Alterman wants to suggest, requires that you get dirty.  "You prefer to stay clean?" he seems to say - "fine, but prepare to be dead."  We'll come back to that.

For Alterman, like Bialik, like many of the Zionists of their day, Zionism was about changing the condition of the Jew, by changing the nature of the Jew.  And for them, the nature of the Jew would be changed by moving away from the religious tradition that made us weak, that offered us a "spiritual refuge" in which we could pretend that things were not as they are, that was an opiate guaranteed to prevent the Jews' confronting the utter intolerability of their condition.

Bialik and Alterman were, of course, quite right.  And dead wrong.  Bialik was right that the condition of the Jew in Europe was untenable (though as he died in 1934, he never got to know exactly how right he was), and Alterman was right that new boys and new girls, caked in dirt and blood, would help redeem what was left of the Jewish people.  But they were sadly wrong about the advisability of leaving Jewish religious discourse in the dust, for they failed to predict how quickly Israelis - bereft of any substantive Jewish discourse - would find themselves unable to say, or to remember, why they needed this State in the first place.

When you've lost the sense that Jewish statehood is about changing the condition of the Jew, and when you can no longer recall that independence was designed (inter alia) to end the era of hunting seasons in which the Jews are the ducks, just because they're Jews, when any semblance of a Jewish conversation is thoroughly absent from your worldview, it's hard to say much about why the Jews need a State.  It's hard to say why the high cost of living here (and I don't mean financial) is worth it.  How do you explain to your friends, and to yourself, why you should drive your eighteen year old son to the base where he'll be inducted, and hope and pray for three long years (or more) that he'll be OK, if you have no idea why a Jewish State matters?

When you can't articulate why you need this State, you fret.  You worry mostly about what the world thinks of you, because more than anything else, you simply want to be "normal," indistinguishable, just like everyone else. So, just like the "men" in Bialik's poem, you don't allow yourself to be horrified by the fact that almost 8,000 rockets have been fired at Sederot, that life there has been transformed into hell.  You don't allow yourself to remember that for years, yes seven years, kids (and old kids, sometimes in their teens) have been sleeping in their parents' rooms, making any kind of normal family life utterly impossible, elementary school kids have been wetting their beds, half the businesses are vacated, more than half the town is empty, the economy doesn't exist and everyone is scared to death, all the time.

You don't allow yourself to focus on the fact that this is exactly what Zionism was supposed to prevent.  You get so used to it that you don't see that Jews sitting like ducks, simply waiting to be hit by homemade missiles while the region's most powerful army sits on the side and polishes its boots, is a bastardization of what Zionism was supposed to be.

When you can't say anything anymore about why the Jews need a state, about what Statehood was supposed to do to the condition of the Jew, you don't allow yourself to stare reality squarely in the face and to wonder what will happen when they get Grads, and then Katyushas, and hit Ashkelon and then Ashdod - until they start.  And then, when they do (which they did, this week), you tell yourself that it's "not so bad."  After all, in yesterday's attacks on Sederot, "only" one woman was killed.  "Only" one house (not her house, but a different one) was burnt to the ground.  And in the roadside bombing of an army patrol, which isn't even on the news anymore, because last night got a lot worse, they "only" killed one soldier, and "only" one soldier was in extremely critical condition.  "Only" a few families forever destroyed - we're going to get worked up about that?

When a country's leadership can't express a single coherent thought about why the Jews need a State, when its Prime Minister can articulate no agenda for the Jewish State beyond the hope that it will be "a fun place to live" (and look who gleefully cites that interview), you know we're bankrupt.  You're bankrupt because Bialik and Alterman were too successful.  They were part of a movement that so utterly disconnected the Jews from the discourse that had nurtured them for centuries that now, aside from being a marginally Hebrew-speaking version of some benign and characterless country, we can't remember why we wanted this State to begin with.  So we don't defend it, because we don't want to hurt their civilians (even though they openly target ours).  We don't want to earn the world's opprobrium, because our Prime Minister loves being welcomed in foreign capitals.  We don't defend ourselves because we're no longer sure that it's really worth the casualties on our side that preventing these attacks on our sovereignty would require.

So we allow ourselves to grow comfortable being sitting ducks, and find ourselves exactly where we were a century ago.  Kishinev morphs into Sederot, and very few people see the irony, or the utter shame, and shamefulness, of what's transpiring here.


Almost as if he foresaw the stalemate that now has us in its grips, Alterman writes in his poem that the boy and the girl are dirty, caked with the dirt of the fields and the fire-line.  Unlike the Torah, which suggests that preparation for the revelation requires that everyone wash their garments, Alterman suggests that if the Jews insist on being clean, or insist on purity, there's no hope. It's a dirty world we live in, he understands, and in this world, we have to decide how badly we want to stay alive.

But we haven't decided that we want to stay alive.  We don't want Ban Ki-Moon to chastise us.  We want George Bush to love us.  We don't want the BBC or CNN to broadcast pictures of Palestinian children wounded or killed by Jewish soldiers.  We don't want more protests like we had this week, with Israeli Arabs rioting in opposition to the minor incursion into Gaza and voicing their support for Hamas.  It's all just too complicated and unpleasant; we'd much rather pretend that we live in America, that we can ignore the dormant volcano of Israel's Arabs, too.

So we sit.  And civilians keep getting targeted, and keep dying.  And soldiers die.  And Israeli towns become ghost towns.  But George Bush most supports us, so we feel better.  And the charade with Abu Mazen permits us to continue hallucinating about the possibility of peace, to pretend that the Palestinians aren't simply an utterly failed people that will never make peace in our lifetimes or those of our children, so we feel even better.

Bialik would recognize us.  And he would weep.


And then, at the end of the day, you're sitting in a friend's living room, a few dozen people gathered together to congratulate him on a new book contract.  Everyone's happy for him.  Everyone's forgotten the funerals (of the woman from Sederot, of the soldier who was killed at Kissufim, and God forbid, of the soldier whose condition wasn't terribly clear) that will soon take place.  Everyone's put out of their minds the mindless abdication of sovereignty unfolding in front of our very eyes.  Everyone's pretending that we live in a normal country, and that Zionism's not failing even as we prepare for the sixtieth anniversary of independence.

So he's speaking modestly about what the book is about, why he's excited about writing it, who's publishing it.  There's wine, and food, and good humor all around.  And then someone's phone rings, and then someone else's.  And before you know it, before your friend has even had five minutes to say anything about his book, all of the Blackberry's are out, and all the cell phones are being used, because the news has reached us - it's starting again.  There's been an attack at a yeshiva at the entrance to the city.  We know the drill, the invariable climb in the numbers.  At first, it's one dead, scores wounded.  Then it's seven dead.  Then eight, and lots of wounded.  Some of them might die, too.

In the morning, the papers report the attack, but there's not a single mention of a response, or even a contemplated response.  Of course one will come, but not yet.  It will have to get worse first, because a few people killed in Sederot, and a couple of soldiers, and even eight kids from a yeshiva - well, it's sad, but just for that we're actually going to start a war?

No, probably not, at least not yet.   Because to go to war (or more accurately, to respond to the war that's been unleashed against you) to defend your citizens, you'd have to be able to articulate why this country still makes any difference.  You've have to be able to say something about why it was created in the first place.  You'd have to have a sense of Jewish history.  You'd have to have a vision for the Jews, an agenda for your country.  You'd have to be able to see yourself as part of a several thousand year old conversation.  You'd have to have some courage.  And yes, you'd ­have to love your people more than you love your office.

There were days when this land was filled with that.  There were days when we remembered, and we knew.  And we fought.  And even if we died in the process, we figured it was worth it, because life here was about something, for something.  And so was dying here.


But those days are gone.  Our Prime Minister doesn't want to defend Sederot.  Or Ashkelon.  He doesn't want to tell Bush that the charade with Abu Mazen is bound to explode, and that when it does, more of us will die.  He just wants a country that's "fun to live in."

Well, he's a lucky guy.  Because tonight, the month of Adar begins.  And the Talmud tells us (see the very last words of the page) that "when Adar begins, we increase our joy."  So let's be happy.  Let's have some fun.  Why not?  It's not as if our enemies have actually won.  Not yet, at least.

It almost makes you grateful that Bialik's not around to see what's happened

Offline muman613

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2011, 12:52:58 AM »
Lisa,

What you posted here originally disturbed me a bit. But I have thought about the issue and would like to share my feelings.

The Jewish people have been subjected to some of the worst traits of humanity. We have witnessed such horrors that our psyche has been afflicted. I recently re-watched a recent version of the 'Ten Commandments' movie and was reminded of a few things. Remember the part of Parasha Shemot where Moshe witnessed an Egyptian task-master beating a Jewish man? The Egyptian task-master was beating him because he intended to rape his wife. The husband did not think to resist the Egyptian and only because of Moshe, and his higher plane, was she saved. This is the effect known as the 'slave-mentality' where the subjected no longer has a desire to fight back. Most of the slaves of Egypt were not motivated to support Moshe at first, and even were angry at him for making their work harder.

Exodus 5:5-9
And Pharaoh said, "Behold, now the people of the land are many, and you are stopping them from their labors."
So, on that day, Pharaoh commanded the taskmasters of the people and their officers, saying,
"You shall not continue to give stubble to the people to make the bricks like yesterday and the day before yesterday. Let them go and gather stubble for themselves.
But the number of bricks they have been making yesterday and the day before yesterday you shall impose upon them; you shall not reduce it, for they are lax. Therefore they cry out, saying, 'Let us go and sacrifice to our G-d.'
Let the labor fall heavy upon the men and let them work at it, and let them not talk about false matters."

Exodus 5:18-
And now, go and work, but you will not be given stubble. Nevertheless, the (same) number of bricks you must give."
The officers of the children of Israel saw them in distress, saying, "Do not reduce (the number) of your bricks, the requirement of each day in its day."
They met Moses and Aaron standing before them when they came out from Pharaoh's presence.
And they said to them, "May the Lord look upon you and judge, for you have brought us into foul odor in the eyes of Pharaoh and in the eyes of his servants, to place a sword into their hand(s) to kill us."
So Moses returned to the Lord and said, "O Lord! Why have You harmed this people? Why have You sent me?
Since I have come to Pharaoh to speak in Your name, he has harmed this people, and You have not saved Your people."


As you can see it is possible for Jews to fall so low as to actually not even resist against the oppression. It is certainly not what Jews should do but in the case of Exodus we had fallen to the forty-ninth level of impurity. I cannot even guess what level of impurity the Jewish people have reached today. I would speculate that we may be approaching that final level which, in a way, forces Hashems hand in sending the redeemer.

Reading about Jews who have been so utterly reduced to 'slave-mentality' is a challenge to my faith. I do believe that Hashem has caused our suffering but for the purpose of perfecting our souls. It has been said that suffering in this world is a rectification of transgressions in this world. This is not an invitation to bring suffering on ourselves. But there is no elevation of the soul without a struggle.

I believe Rabbi Shafier in the video I just watched expressed this idea in relation to this weeks Parasha of Re'eh.

http://www.theshmuz.com/Weekly_Parsha_Video/Weekly_Parsha_Re%27eh_video.html
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 12:59:14 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2011, 02:14:39 AM »
I realize that this is not exactly on topic but I still was thinking about this story from the Midrash...



http://www.kabbalaonline.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/653481/jewish/Avenging-the-Death-of-Abel.htm

We are told in the oral tradition that this curser was the son of an Egyptian taskmaster. Shelomit was an overly outgoing, talkative woman, as alluded to by the fact that the Torah mentions that she was "the daughter of Dibri"; these words may be read as "the talkative daughter", as the word dibri in Hebrew implies "talkative". Because of her immodesty, this Egyptian taskmaster took note of her and desired her. He woke her husband up in the middle of the night and summoned him to his work. While the husband was out, the Egyptian taskmaster slipped into the house and had relations with Shelomit, who thought that this man was her husband. When the husband came home, he understood what had happened. When the taskmaster saw that the husband understood what had happened, he afflicted him relentlessly. Moses, who at this point was still an Egyptian noble, had gone out to see how his compatriots were doing, and when he witnessed how this taskmaster was afflicting Shelomit's husband, he slew the taskmaster by pronouncing G-d's name. (See Rashi on v. 10 and on Ex. 2:11).

Years later, the son born of this illicit union tried to encamp in the camp of the tribe of Dan, but an Israelite man quoted him the verse, "The children of Israel shall encamp such that each man be near the flag of the insignia of their father's houses." (Num. 2:2) This man could therefore not claim the right to encamp with his mother's tribe. The two of them went into Moses' tent to be judged, and the verdict was against the son of the Egyptian, who then went outside Moses' tent and blasphemed. G-d told Moses that after the witnesses place their hands on his head, the court should stone him.



http://rabbibuchwald.njop.org/2004/05/03/emor-5764-2004/
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 02:26:32 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14