Difference between Muslims & Jews/Christians on Gays: Liberals don't understand!

[Khan Krum]

For me, I'm religous Christian so I'm against homosexual marriage. But I'm not against them as people. I know many gay people (here in New York being a major city) who are all fine people. I don't like the faggots who run aroudn in pink underwear at the marches and I call them fags because they are. I respect gays who have normal relationships without that sh*t. But many religious Christians are against gay marriage but that doesn't mean we think all gay are going to hell, they're all evil people, and that kind of stuff except Westboro sh*ts, but they're not really Christians.

So I hate it when liberals make it look like all Christians and Jews who are against gay marriage hate gay people and think they're all going to hell. That's a small minority of radicals. For me the question is whether gay people being together is sin (but they're still good people), or whether it's no sin and just them marrying is sin. i will stand up for gays suffering in Asia and Africa but I will stand against their marriage because of my position. I think they have right for be together but not marrying. Also they shouldn't adopt kids because that's wrong and kids need a mother and father. If they want kids they can contribute sperm or whatever or egg if they're lesbians as donor. And some sins you can't go to hell for unless you kill someone or rape or hurt people in other ways and don't repent.

Muslims however hate gays. They think they should be thrown from buildings (as many here have heard). They think they're all going to hell and need to be execute, which is stupid because if they were going to hell, should not one give them the chance to repent so they may not? Teachings of Islam say unbelievers go to hell (ask Andy Choudary), although many good Muslims are unaware of the evil religion they practice and don't believe this. For Jews & Christians even many Muslims go to heaven because many are good people, they just follow an evil relgion.

This is difference, unlike how liberals think. Just like coveting is sin (thou shall not covet from 10commandments), but people won't go to hell for being jealous. Liberals need to read the Bible/Torah/Scriptures if they think we think everyone is going to hell. Liberals shouldn't defame Christianity and Judaism unless they know what we think.

[muman613]

I disagree somewhat with what you are saying.

Jewish belief is that all sin will be punished, Midah Keneged Midah {Measure for Measure} every sin from the smallest, to the largest, will be accounted for on the day of judgement. We cannot make calculations that this sin is less than, or greater than, another sin. It is just human calculation which is always prone to error.

We say many times that Shabbat Desecration {violating the laws of the Sabbath} is one of the WORST sins according to the Torah. The Torah spends several paragraphs throughout the text explaining how integral observing the Sabbath is, and that the penalty for desecration is Death... But today people violate the Shabbat more than they engage in homosexual relations. Both sins have a clear death penalty, but gay sex is mentioned only twice while Shabbat is mentioned over 10 times.

We must be careful to avoid all sin, repent for those sins which we know we have done, and avoid engaging in all sin in the future.. Do not make calculations about which sin is worse than another because Hashem is the only one who can calculate how much time a soul must do in Gehinnom.


http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/97579/jewish/The-Reward-for-Keeping-Mitzvos.htm

The Reward for Keeping Mitzvos

This week’s parshah , Eikev , discusses, among many other things, the concept of the reward promised to a person if he is careful with the observance of all mitzvos , even those that people tend to trample on. According to Targum Onkelos — the Aramaic translation of the Torah — the word eikev , the name of the parshah , means “reward.” Thus the first word of this section should be understood as follows: “This shall be the reward when you obey these ordinances, and you observe and perform them…”

However, the Midrash and Rashi point out that the word eikev also means “heel.” There are certain mitzvos that people tend to observe scrupulously, and other mitzvos that people are not so careful about. In Rashi’s words, “These are the mitzvos which people tend to trample underfoot (with the heel).” They are mitzvos about which people tend to say, “Ah, that is just a minor one, a little pettiness; it’s not such an important mitzvah. That is not the one we really have to observe carefully. We’ll put our efforts into Shabbos — that is an important mitzvah. But tzniyus , modesty? It’s not so important; it’s not a major mitzvah.” The same logic is applied to whatever mitzvos such people decide are major or minor.

The Rebbe explains that therefore, according to the verse, reward is given to a person precisely when he doesn’t judge which are the major mitzvos and which are the minor mitzvos , and he observes all of them equally, even those motvos which other people tend to trample with their heels, because they are all equally HaShem ’s will. The Jew who is on the right wavelength says, “Who are we to give points to mitzvos and decide which ones are major and which are minor? If it is HaShem ’s will, what’s the difference if one appears to be more important than the other?” The Rebbe points out on many occasions that there are two aspects to every mitzvah. One, the individual intention and meditation specific to that particular mitzvah , such as the concept of a person binding his heart, mind and strength to HaShem ’s will through the mitzvah of tefillin. Secondly, there is the feature common to all mitzvos — that they are all (even the most “minor”) equally the will of HaShem. That is why our Sages tell us that we should not weigh which mitzvos seem more important, and which less — because they are all equally the will of HaShem..
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[muman613]

By the way, Jewish belief is that you can go to Gehinnom for being jealous.. For any violation of the commandments a Jew is responsible and must either honestly do teshuva {in which case most sin can be atoned for} or do time in gehinnom.

http://www.torah.org/features/wperspective/mirror.html

THE JEALOUSY OF RACHELM

The Torah tells us that "Rachel became envious of her sister." Says Rashi: "She envied her good deeds. She said, 'Were she not more righteous than I, she would not have merited sons.'" God forbids us to be jealous. The definition of jealousy is wanting something that belongs to someone else. This is forbidden because everything a person has in this world comes from God. God gives each person exactly what he needs to maximize his potential.

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There is one exception to the jealousy rule: We are allowed to be jealous of the Torah and mitzvot of others. "The jealousy of those who learn Torah increases wisdom in the world" (Talmud - Baba Batra 21a). Whereas it is forbidden to be jealous of the material possessions of another, we are allowed to be jealous of another person's spiritual acquisitions, his learning and mitzvot. When a person feels jealousy, this emotion causes him to experience a more intense desire for the object of his jealousy. If that object is Torah and mitzvot, the desire has merit because it will ultimately bring more Torah and learning into the world.

Why should one type of desire provoked by jealousy have merit and the other be forbidden? The difference is that we have no control over what God gives us, but what we give to God is within our control. Material blessings are directed from God above to the world below. Human beings have no control over this type of blessing for it is God's domain. It is His decision to bestow on us or deny us as He so wills.

[Khan Krum]

I think in the end God judges all mostly by who we are inside, and a little on outstanding actions.

[muman613]

I think in the end G-d judges all mostly by who we are inside, and a little on outstanding actions.

Who we are inside is reflected in the way we act and interact with others. In the end Hashem judges us based on our actions and a little on our thoughts.

PS: I think the difference we have may be a big difference between the Jewish and non-Jewish view of the world.

[muman613]

See this commentary on Pirkie Avot (Ethics of our Fathers) which discusses the difference between actions (deeds) and thought...

http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter3-12b.html

See also this discussion of how the Torah commands us to control our desires : http://www.torah.org/features/spirfocus/mindcontrol.html

[Khan Krum]

See this commentary on Pirkie Avot (Ethics of our Fathers) which discusses the difference between actions (deeds) and thought...

http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter3-12b.html

Very inspiring!

[muman613]

Very inspiring!

Thank you... I appreciate you enjoyed it...

[Rubystars]

I do think that all active homosexuals are going to hell unless they repent and stop the activity. This isn't me being hateful against them. God is the one who tells people that such activity is evil and sinful. It's people's free will choice to disregard that.

I don't want to throw them off cliffs or do physical harm to them. I do think that sodomy should be illegal though.

[Khan Krum]

I do think that all active homosexuals are going to hell unless they repent and stop the activity. This isn't me being hateful against them. G-d is the one who tells people that such activity is evil and sinful. It's people's free will choice to disregard that.

I don't want to throw them off cliffs or do physical harm to them. I do think that sodomy should be illegal though.

As in what? Sodomy? What if they are together but don't do sex?

[Rubystars]

As in what? Sodomy? What if they are together but don't do sex?

The correct pattern is for a man and woman to be together. Men can be friends with other men and women can be friends with other women, but only in a completely non-sexual way. It's wrong for a same sex pair of people to be a "couple", "in love" with each other. If someone has feelings like that then they need mental help. Unfortunately the mental health system has failed them by caving into political correctness, leaving many without any kind of professional help. It's still their free will to abstain from the evil activity though even if they have desires to do so.

[Khan Krum]

The correct pattern is for a man and woman to be together. Men can be friends with other men and women can be friends with other women, but only in a completely non-sexual way. It's wrong for a same sex pair of people to be a "couple", "in love" with each other. If someone has feelings like that then they need mental help. Unfortunately the mental health system has failed them by caving into political correctness, leaving many without any kind of professional help. It's still their free will to abstain from the evil activity though even if they have desires to do so.

I agree with that,but i still think they won't go to hell just for be together...

[Rubystars]

The wages of sin is death.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The gay subject bores me.   Why are people so obsessed with it?    Something blown totally out of proportion.  Self-important gays can take their activism and shove it.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

The gay subject bores me.   Why are people so obsessed with it?    Something blown totally out of proportion.  Self-important gays can take their activism and shove it.

 It is the mass media which essentially tells people what to think about and what are the issues they feel like discussing. Most people fall into the trap.

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

  Self-important gays can take their activism and shove it.

That would be sodomy!  Sorry I couldn't resist!

[Dr. Dan]

Islam is gay.  Nuf said.

As far as same sex attraction.  That isn't a sin, its a mental defect and abnormality which should be treated appropriately.  Most men or women with this abnormality can still function normally in society and should not be discriminated against.

Those who act on thus temptation are behaving inappropriately and immorally.

But in the end Gd will be the judge.  Not you or me.  We should speak our minds as proudly as they speak their minds and only in appropriate situations.

[Khan Krum]

Islam is gay.  Nuf said.

As far as same sex attraction.  That isn't a sin, its a mental defect and abnormality which should be treated appropriately.  Most men or women with this abnormality can still function normally in society and should not be discriminated against.

Those who act on thus temptation are behaving inappropriately and immorally.

But in the end Gd will be the judge.  Not you or me.  We should speak our minds as proudly as they speak their minds and only in appropriate situations.

I agree completely!
By the way I heard study that Islam is likely to create homosexuality by their segregation of men and women.

[Dr. Dan]

I agree completely!
By the way I heard study that Islam is likely to create homosexuality by their segregation of men and women.

Islam would more likely to cause homosexuality because Imams can justify homosexual behavior in their warped twisted minds.  They can also justify beastiality and pedophilia.

However, at least in Judaism, there is some ultra orthodox circles with a lot segregation of men and women.  I wonder why we don't see homosexuality going in their situation?  Hmmmm

[Khan Krum]

Probably because of no pedophile imams 

[serbian army]

But many religious Christians are against gay marriage but that doesn't mean we think all gay are going to hell, they're all evil people, and that kind of stuff except Westboro sh*ts, but they're not really Christians.

You seem to be so religious and knowledgeable Christian. Now tell us what Bulgarian Orthodox Church is telling about afterlife destination of every homosexual?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I agree completely!
By the way I heard study that Islam is likely to create homosexuality by their segregation of men and women.

Lol show me a study.

Btw are you not aware that Judaism separates the sexes!?

[muman613]

Lol show me a study.

Btw are you not aware that Judaism separates the sexes!?

Yes, most Orthodox pray separately and all dancing is same-sex.... I fully accept this and don't find any problem with it.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Yes, most Orthodox pray separately and all dancing is same-sex.... I fully accept this and don't find any problem with it.

Not only no problem with it, but there is no evidence I am aware of that this turns anyone gay.

[Khan Krum]

You seem to be so religious and knowledgeable Christian. Now tell us what Bulgarian Orthodox Church is telling about afterlife destination of every homosexual?

No official position. And I don't belong to Bulgarian Orthodox, I belong to Romanian branch because I'm from Romania.