Orthodox Jews get glasses to blur out women

[The One and Only Mo]

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this not a bizarre fringe practice carried out by a few extreme Charedi that is being blown up to make religious Jews look like a bunch of loons?

Could be.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I don't believe in that stuff, I just believe you gotta do what you believe is right. If they believe it's right, then let them do it. I'm not in their shoes. Just let them do whatever they need to do to survive.

survive?

This is where it doesn't make any sense.   You have made "woman in the field of vision" into a life and death situation, which it isn't.

And yet, a real life and death situation, like not being able to see where you are walking, or crossing the street, has somehow been turned into a minor squabble.     Total confusion of priorities and common sense.  This is why I believe that people who are obsessed with sex are distorting Judaism.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

The gedolim would allow them to endanger themselves and others? Why would the gedolim paskin that it's allowed to do something which is assur?

 Bring me the Psak Din and which particular person (you or someone condering to be a "Gadol" who said one way or another). I have heard "the Gadolim" argument (or excuse) too much by now. Someonetimes when seeing a person with a black hat people assume their doing it there-for it is correct and the "Gdolim" support them.

[The One and Only Mo]

survive?

This is where it doesn't make any sense.   You have made "woman in the field of vision" into a life and death situation, which it isn't.

And yet, a real life and death situation, like not being able to see where you are walking, or crossing the street, has somehow been turned into a minor squabble.     Total confusion of priorities and common sense.

As I said, if it does cause harm, it's horrible.

[The One and Only Mo]

What gedolim?   Allow what?

There are gedolim who are in control of what glasses get sold in stores and what things people buy?   You have been misled to believe that Jewish society is run like the wizard of Oz where some rabbis sit behind the curtain and direct everything.

That is another thing you have to learn.   People behave as they wish and gedolim do not control it.   If enough people do something it becomes a fait accompli.   Whether a gadol originally said "Do this" or not.    And similarly even if only a small amount of people are doing something, it's a free economy, even if a gadol says "Do not buy xyz" there will still be people who do because they don't follow that gadol, or some other gadol said it's ok, or their personal rav.  Or they see others doing it so they accept it.   Etc.


Consider crox.   When they came out, it became a big fad that orthodox Jews wear crox on yom kippur.    Very very popular and common.  Because it's decent footwear but it's clearly not fancy shoes and no leather.   But you can stand and pray in it for hours.   So lots of people got it.  Remember a few years ago Rav Eliashiv ZT"L said crox are forbidden for YK?   Consider how many Jews still wear it.   Because people have their own rabbis and most did not ever say you can't wear crox.   And very few people sat down and said, well since that big gadol said it, I have to decide now maybe I can't really wear them.  Some people reacted like that but many ignored it actually.

They can be excommunicated and/or arrested for harming others.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Most people do not go and take a poll of gedolim or ask "approval" before deciding to do anything.   People do things because it seems right or makes sense to them.    People buying these glasses think it's important, I highly doubt that they were gonna buy a pair, then they said oh wait, let me make sure that Rav Kanievsky commends this practice first, then I'll buy them.    People don't operate like that - that is fantasy land.   Maybe they tried to portray the world that way in your school (i dont know what kind of school you were/are in) but that is not the reality of the Jewish world.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I think the real answer is for men and women to marry young like they did in Biblical times, like they were designed to do. Marrying in your mid-late twenties or, G-d forbid, thirties, because of career considerations, etc. is just ridiculous and forces more sexual temptation upon humans than they were ever designed to withstand.

[The One and Only Mo]

I think the real answer is for men and women to marry young like they did in Biblical times, like they were designed to do. Marrying in your mid-late twenties or, G-d forbid, thirties, because of career considerations, etc. is just ridiculous and forces more sexual temptation upon humans than they were ever designed to withstand.

There has to be means of support for ppl to get married.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

There has to be means of support for ppl to get married.

People don't need to make 50k a year to live on their own and support a family. Look at the pioneers in Israel who have large families at young ages despite dire poverty. I would venture to guess that most working/middle-class Westerners are in more comfortable shape than they are, even before they get decent jobs. Are people really in absolute dire straits or do they want to get a nicely furnished home, boat, swimming pool, etc. before they marry/have kids?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Mo, how do you sit at a shabbos table?  There are women serving food.   Or do you only go to shabbos meal where there's a mechitza and siblings and wife sits elsewhere?

For me, it's not just that I don't do things that way, but I see that doing things that way is unnecessary and an incorrect way to live.   It's extra chumra that doesn't make sense to me and certainly isn't required.  I'm allowed to have an opinion on that and so are you.       I choose not to be chassidic and like my litvak ancestors of the glorious past, I view my own way as correct and that's ok.   I'll share a secret with you, the chasidim also think that they are doing things right and others are mistaken.

[The One and Only Mo]

People don't need to make 50k a year to live on their own and support a family. Look at the pioneers in Israel who have large families at young ages despite dire poverty. I would venture to guess that most working/middle-class Westerners are in more comfortable shape than they are, even before they get decent jobs. Are people really in absolute dire straits or do they want to get a nicely furnished home, boat, swimming pool, etc. before they marry/have kids?

I agree. But Yeshiva tuition and kosher food and all that sutff is a killer.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

People don't need to make 50k a year to live on their own and support a family. Look at the pioneers in Israel who have large families at young ages despite dire poverty. I would venture to guess that most working/middle-class Westerners are in more comfortable shape than they are, even before they get decent jobs. Are people really in absolute dire straits or do they want to get a nicely furnished home, boat, swimming pool, etc. before they marry/have kids?

Well the amount can vary but people do need a job at least.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I don't believe in that stuff, I just believe you gotta do what you believe is right. If they believe it's right, then let them do it. I'm not in their shoes. Just let them do whatever they need to do to survive.

 That's like arguing let the hiloni newspapers do what they believe is right. The "live and let live" argument. True in a sense, but never-the-less problematic and true Judaism does not work like that. We can't and should not have (in Israel especially) on the one hand a modestly women's picture in a magazine being blurred out and on the other hand have magazines with a picture of a lady with a swimsuit on where you can see most of her chest exposed as well. These are 2 unhealthy extremes that make society worse off and we do not need to support either of these positions. Also its even worse that both extremes are getting worse and worse with time. A healthy society is balanced properly.

[The One and Only Mo]

Mo, how do you sit at a shabbos table?  There are women serving food.   Or do you only go to shabbos meal where there's a mechitza and siblings and wife sits elsewhere?

For me, it's not just that I don't do things that way, but I see that doing things that way is unnecessary and an incorrect way to live.   It's extra chumra that doesn't make sense to me and certainly isn't required.  I'm allowed to have an opinion on that and so are you.       I choose not to be chassidic and like my litvak ancestors of the glorious past, I view my own way as correct and that's ok.   I'll share a secret with you, the chasidim also think that they are doing things right and others are mistaken.

IT'S NOT ABOUT ME! I LOOK AT WOMEN, HAVE HAD PLENTY OF GIRLFRIENDS ETC. AND FRIENDS WHO ARE GIRLS. I'M JUST DEFENDING THEM FOR TRYING. STOP SAYING THAT I LIVE LIKE THEM. I DON'T. NOT BY ANY STRETCH. I JUST  BELIEVE THEY SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE SO LONG AS THEY DON'T HARM.

[The One and Only Mo]

That's like arguing let the hiloni newspapers do what they believe is right. The "live and let live" argument. True in a sense, but never-the-less problematic and true Judaism does not work like that. We can't and should not have (in Israel especially) on the one hand a modestly women's picture in a magazine being blurred out and on the other hand have magazines with a picture of a lady with a swimsuit on where you can see most of her chest exposed as well. These are 2 unhealthy extremes that make society worse off and we do not need to support either of these positions. Also its even worse that both extremes are getting worse and worse with time. A healthy society is balanced properly.

YOUR idea of healthy society is not theirs. Not even close. We will never be able to understand them.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Well the amount can vary but people do need a job at least.

You don't need to be a senior partner or manager at your firm or office, in your mid-thirties, before you can afford marriage and family.

[The One and Only Mo]

You don't need to be a senior partner or manager at your firm or office, in your mid-thirties, before you can afford marriage and family.

Yeah, food, clothing, shelter is expensive.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Why is it hard to live in an apartment instead of a mansion, have one car instead of two, fix your own food instead of eating at fancy restaurants, etc.?

You notice that the majority of Westerners (Gentile and Jewish alike) that refuse to marry until they have "arrived" financially have no problem shacking-up with their significant others at relatively young ages, and often living that way for years and even having children with them. Is there really a reason why they could not have married?

[The One and Only Mo]

Mo, how do you sit at a shabbos table?  There are women serving food.   Or do you only go to shabbos meal where there's a mechitza and siblings and wife sits elsewhere?

For me, it's not just that I don't do things that way, but I see that doing things that way is unnecessary and an incorrect way to live.   It's extra chumra that doesn't make sense to me and certainly isn't required.  I'm allowed to have an opinion on that and so are you.       I choose not to be chassidic and like my litvak ancestors of the glorious past, I view my own way as correct and that's ok.   I'll share a secret with you, the chasidim also think that they are doing things right and others are mistaken.

You just admitted that you believe it's incorrect for them. That's what I was trying to say all along. What gives any of us the right to dictate how should live as long as it doesn't harm themselves or others?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

That's like arguing let the hiloni newspapers do what they believe is right. The "live and let live" argument. True in a sense, but never-the-less problematic and true Judaism does not work like that. We can't and should not have (in Israel especially) on the one hand a modestly women's picture in a magazine being blurred out and on the other hand have magazines with a picture of a lady with a swimsuit on where you can see most of her chest exposed as well. These are 2 unhealthy extremes that make society worse off and we do not need to support either of these positions. Also its even worse that both extremes are getting worse and worse with time. A healthy society is balanced properly.

The most absurd is when they blur out the faces of little girls on purim advertisements showing kids in costumes.   Maybe they should also blur out the faces of the little boys so gay pedophiles won't be tempted.   I mean, if they are already taking away temptation from miniscule population of straight pedophiles out there, why not include the gay ones too.
   
It's an embarrassment and a disgrace to give people the impression that average Torah Jews routinely get sexual thoughts from little kids on an advertisement for a purim store or whatever.    Or to give me the impression that the editors feel that is how Torah Jews will react.  It's sick.

[The One and Only Mo]

The most absurd is when they blur out the faces of little girls on purim advertisements showing kids in costumes.   Maybe they should also blur out the faces of the little boys so gay pedophiles won't be tempted.   I mean, if they are already taking away temptation from miniscule population of straight pedophiles out there, why not include the gay ones too.
   
It's an embarrassment and a disgrace to give people the impression that average Torah Jews routinely get sexual thoughts from little kids on an advertisement for a purim store or whatever.    Or to give me the impression that the editors feel that is how Torah Jews will react.  It's sick.

That very well may be. But it all comes down to them doing whatever they feel is best for their own yetzer haras. Who are we to tell them what to do? It's sad, but if they feel they have to, then they should.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Isn't it just a teensy tiny portion of religious Jews that go to these extremes, and we only hear about it because the NWO likes to publicize it?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

You just admitted that you believe it's incorrect for them. That's what I was trying to say all along. What gives any of us the right to dictate how should live as long as it doesn't harm themselves or others?

1. Because it does harm them.

2.  Because I am allowed to have an opinion.

3.  Because their craziness will come to affect me when they promote it in the Jewish world.   The chumras of chasidim in kashrut have come to dominate all of orthodox kashrus because of their activism.   And similarly societal trends and cultural norms.  As is natural, they spread.   And what used to be something relegated to some small tiny population, later on becomes "just the chasidim," and later still becomes, "If you don't do that you are not frum."   

4.  Because I am allowed to have an opinion.   And when they make up their own halachas I can say it doesn't make sense because I am arguing for the Torah's honor.

[The One and Only Mo]

Why is it hard to live in an apartment instead of a mansion, have one car instead of two, fix your own food instead of eating at fancy restaurants, etc.?

You notice that the majority of Westerners (Gentile and Jewish alike) that refuse to marry until they have "arrived" financially have no problem shacking-up with their significant others at relatively young ages, and often living that way for years and even having children with them. Is there really a reason why they could not have married?

I agree with you. People are used to a certain lifestyle and they believe so strongly in it that anybody who does otherwise is in the wrong. Like, it cannot be possible at all that people do something contrary to how they believe society should be. People are acclimated to a certain way and they cannot survive without that way of life. But, an apartment can be expensive too.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

That very well may be. But it all comes down to them doing whatever they feel is best for their own yetzer haras. Who are we to tell them what to do? It's sad, but if they feel they have to, then they should.

But more than just the editor of a paper reads the paper.   That's the whole point of a newspaper.  Lots of people read it.