"I am afraid that women appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty

[muman613]

Women do want to be dominated by a solid, strong man by instinct. Trashy, brainwashed women want to be abused by men. Some women only date batterers no matter what because it turns them on. Most women today have been brainwashed into self-hatred to some degree.

The important thing to remember is that we are talking about 'some women' and not all. I will not argue that there are some who like this kind of stuff. I have witnessed it myself. But I just want to keep a kernel of reason in the discussion by pointing out it is not all of them. Indeed it may be on the rise due to the decline in moral values (as a result of the sexual revolution of the 60s, etc.).

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Even women on Frumster aren't that great. Most of them just ignore the men that write to them or just send the automatic rejection message. And then there is SuperTova which is free but not all Orthodox but I find the same people on there that I've seen on Frumster in the past. I guess the women are too picky and that's why you see them on all the sites never satisfied.

In my community, the men don't talk to women. Most people my age move away when they get married and most of the people that attend synagogue events are my parents' age. Aside from the rabbi, I think I'm the youngest (I'm 31 and he's 32.). There are a few people my age but are all married. The kids of the older members usually move away to yeshiva or seminary. Only when I'm here in Israel do I interact with women my age (Although they're like 10 years younger.). They're here for the year. I was in their place 11 years ago at Hebrew University. In Jerusalem, all the young Jews hang out and you can hear English everywhere.

Jaffa Street is a pedestrian mall now like Ben Yehuda St. but with trains in the middle of the street and now everyone wallks around late at night. In the US, it would not be safe because of you know who but here all the stores late at night are kosher and open and all the young people are Jews. Maybe visiting Jews in a religious program have the best chance of finding someone while in Israel. The communities in the US usually discourage young men and women from interacting.

[Lisa]

Even women on Frumster aren't that great. Most of them just ignore the men that write to them or just send the automatic rejection message. And then there is SuperTova which is free but not all Orthodox but I find the same people on there that I've seen on Frumster in the past. I guess the women are too picky and that's why you see them on all the sites never satisfied.

In my community, the men don't talk to women. Most people my age move away when they get married and most of the people that attend synagogue events are my parents' age. Aside from the rabbi, I think I'm the youngest (I'm 31 and he's 32.). There are a few people my age but are all married. The kids of the older members usually move away to yeshiva or seminary. Only when I'm here in Israel do I interact with women my age (Although they're like 10 years younger.). They're here for the year. I was in their place 11 years ago at Hebrew University. In Jerusalem, all the young Jews hang out and you can hear English everywhere.

Jaffa Street is a pedestrian mall now like Ben Yehuda St. but with trains in the middle of the street and now everyone wallks around late at night. In the US, it would not be safe because of you know who but here all the stores late at night are kosher and open and all the young people are Jews. Maybe visiting Jews in a religious program have the best chance of finding someone while in Israel. The communities in the US usually discourage young men and women from interacting.

In my community, the men never talk to you unless they're your first cousins or your uncles.  It's just not considered proper with the Mashadi Jews of my generation.  I can't even tell you how many weddings I've been to where I've been seated at tables with single men.  They're usually at one end of the table and the women at the other end.  They never even just say "hello."  If anything my father would say to me "Lisa, so and so, who's related to so and so, saw you at a party and wants to go out with you." 

And then my father will be like "go out with his two, three, four, five, ten times and you will get to like him."  But to me, that's just leading the guy on. 

Another thing is, and I'm sure I'll get criticized by some of the guys on this thread about it, but I was born and raised in America.  I never really grew up in the Iranian Jewish community.  So if a guy won't even just say hello to me at a party, then that's not a good sign.

Then my mother always says, marriage is work  (never anything about loving the man, wanting to spend time with him or enjoying his company.)

[JTFenthusiast]

I'm not sure why there have to be posts alienating half of the entire population.

Sure, there are bad women... and there are also bad men!

And I find the majority of men who blame all their problems on women are either insecure because they have been hurt or are very angry, depressed, jealous, or negative. No woman wants to be with a man who is angry and can't control his temper. No woman wants to be with a man that constantly complains either. But what do the vast majority of these men do? They blame. Do you want to be with a woman that loses her temper or is negative or who nags? Case and point.

On the other hand, a person who is "thankful for the good things he has" and is positive, optimistic, and happy, is a man who has much fewer problems dealing with the opposite sex and is very attractive. You attitude and choices mean everything.

Yes, some women will only be happy with money or the thrill of the chase... and some guys are only happy with the way a woman looks or if she's a trophy to battle their insecurities.

I'd rather see less of these threads that insult women. It goes against the Creator to bash all women or all men.

Shlomo, as usual, you hit the nail right on the head!!! Perfectly squarely and on the head.  No one wants to listen to anyone's bit**ing about one sex being all bad and one almost all good or vice-versa.

Lastly, when am I going to be able to sign back in to my account?     I mean it though!

[JTFenthusiast]

I misread the first post title.. Oops..  Thought it read women were cruel to their men..  Dang.. I feel stupid now..  I think women do crave cruel bad-boys in their younger years.  Well, many more modern girls do, IMO.

EveryJewa44,

I stopped reading what you wrote after you described his wife as a supermodel (not out of disrespect of course), but look at your friend's values.  He sold his soul for looks, something that is skin deep.  Now he feels crushed and emotionally taken advantage of.  Well maybe he should have looked a little deeper first.  I don't know how your friend looks physically, but if he wasn't her equal physically and I'm thinking he definitely was not, and he thought he bought himself a "trophy," he was very childlike and immature in the way he went about looking for a wife. 

[JTFenthusiast]

I know a right wing girl. No girl wants a [censored] pushover that won't take the lead and make decisions, or a needy wart that just calls and shows up endlessly. And it's usually trashy girls or ones that got raped/ didn't have a dad or had an abusive one that liked to be controlled, but if all you can get is those girls, good luck, but I'm not in the market for damaged goods.

Women don't like to feel like cattle, or the sun-god of the African tribes, they just like a challenge. If you're gonna be this phony boob that accepts every imperfection they have without a second thought because you're just so happy to have sex, like, there's no game, no drama, no improvement, nothing because the man's not challenging her, she's gonna walk plain and simple. If you control her and lock up her life, well then she might get comfortable or be afriad of change that involves going through you, and she'll hate it, she'll just do it for her love of you and keep hoping you should change. If you're not planning on having an open harem day for the new mail-in invitees and changing your name to Wauhhhh Ibn Pedophile, then learn the rules.

1. Do not let a women know that you are a looser that will fall madly in love with her over a wink and do anything for her. She will use you.
Notes: Gentlemanly behavior is great, but not how your mom taught it to you. There are many things that girls say annoy them that are insta-keys to their reptile minds (dividing the brain in 3 layers).

2. Make a women feel that she must be good enough for you, not the other way around. This will happen automatically as a doctor, or if your bicep is 3/4 the size of her head (approx) and you have min two inches of ab sticking out. Otherwise, when asking her questions (and this is what the majority of early conversations must be, not necessarily questions, but talk about her; once as she knows all your stories or enough to think she has you figured out, she will leave you, as a general rule. Money and/or muscle of course changes everything usually.

3. Walk women. Don't just buy them things and take them to a movie. It shows you can stay comfortable.

4. Be comfortable. When you act like this is a big bad game you have to beat and one slip of the tongue (some things can screw you, be reasonable, but just because you aren't perfect, doesn't mean you have to beat yourself up)

last time i threw a little sex ed bone, i got major denunciations, even if this is a reputable area of neuroscience. If you want more, write it, or go get an arranged marriage or something.

Making a woman feel like she needs to be good enough for you is a recipe to give most women anxiety and will make them feel worse than they already feel.  They shouldn't feel like you're some sap or a  doormat, but making women feel that they have to earn your respect the hard way, I think is a bad way to go. Insecurity breeds insecurity.  Let the person be herself.  If you don't like her, dump her.  I'm surprised (on this forum) how much negativism there is on this subject.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Nobody has even tried to refute the most singularly basic observation I've made here: Western women are socialized to believe that selfishness is acceptable and even laudable. Feminism has more in common with LaVeyist Satanism than any other single philosophy on earth. This is equally true of Marxist feminism and libertarian (Randist) feminism.

--A promiscuous man is a player or cad, but a promiscuous woman is sexually empowered (i.e. Sex in the City).
--A traditionalist man is a patriarchal sexist, but a traditionalist woman is values-oriented.
--A man who is serious about marriage and aggressively pursues it is desperate, but a woman who does is proactive and commitment-oriented.
--A man who never wants to marry is immature or fears commitment, but a woman who refuses to commit is liberated.
--A man who marries for money is a gigolo, but a woman who does has standards and self-respect.

I could go on and on and on... you all know this is true, whether or not you want to admit it.

[JTFenthusiast]

Nobody has even tried to refute the most singularly basic observation I've made here: Western women are socialized to believe that selfishness is acceptable and even laudable. Feminism has more in common with LaVeyist Satanism than any other single philosophy on earth. This is equally true of Marxist feminism and libertarian (Randist) feminism.

--A promiscuous man is a player or cad, but a promiscuous woman is sexually empowered (i.e. Sex in the City).
--A traditionalist man is a patriarchal sexist, but a traditionalist woman is values-oriented.
--A man who is serious about marriage and aggressively pursues it is desperate, but a woman who does is proactive and commitment-oriented.
--A man who never wants to marry is immature or fears commitment, but a woman who refuses to commit is liberated.
--A man who marries for money is a gigolo, but a woman who does has standards and self-respect.

I could go on and on and on... you all know this is true, whether or not you want to admit it.

I really disagree with this.  Maybe there is a generation gap.  Most educated people do not look at the positions that you describe for the woman as being somehow heroic and revolutionary.

 A woman who sleeps around is at risk for a higher likelihood of getting an STD. This can later interfere with future fertility.  Whoever is telling her that lie is doing her a real disservice.

A woman who refuses to get married to the right man is an idiot or has emotional problems, in which case, no man is the 'right' man

A woman who marries for money is a prostitute, she's whoring herself out for the almighty dollar.
A man who marries for looks only is an idiot, someone who never learned how to control the little head with the big head, particularly for monumental decisions such as marriage.

A promiscuous woman is not empowered, she is desperate for affection or just enjoys a real good time, but either way she loses because she cheapens her own worth by giving it a way or putting herself at risk for sexual encounters gone awry, more than her fair share of worries about unwanted pregnancies or diseases.

A man who does this has to keep proving to the world and to himself how desirable he is.  After a certain age, that kind of behavior is the butt of jokes from everyone.  I know a man like this at work. He's incredibly nice, but he's a fool, giving it to any female who makes him feel like a man.  The workplace laughs at him, instead of pitying him

These are just a few examples.  Walk to your own beat, forget the rest.  I know it's easier said than done.  When I was your age, my parents would have said what I said to you, and I know it wouldn't have meant much.  Be better than me, try to take some of it in

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Are the double standards that I described stupid? Yes. Are they extremely commonplace? Unfortunately. Are religious women immune to them? Hell no. Most have bought into the culture of selfishness to some degree.

The cold, hard truth is that we have a couple generations of females on our hands that believe they are owed life handed to them on a silver platter because they don't have a penis. It's no different from what our mmhmm brothas and sistas believe. They believe that they deserve any job that they want regardless of how qualified they are, free contraception so that they can sleep around without any consequence (and many of these women don't want kids period, so they don't care about their fertility later on), the right to kill their unborn children because they are an inconvenience to them, and a redistribution of income if they don't earn the exact same thing as a man. I wish it weren't this way, but the great majority of Western women are like this, regardless of whether or not they are secular. In fact, religious women can sometimes be even worse because they believe that they are extra-worthy in G-d's eyes.

[JTFenthusiast]

Are the double standards that I described stupid? Yes. Are they extremely commonplace? Unfortunately. Are religious women immune to them? Hell no. Most have bought into the culture of selfishness to some degree.

The cold, hard truth is that we have a couple generations of females on our hands that believe they are owed life handed to them on a silver platter because they don't have a penis. It's no different from what our mmhmm brothas and sistas believe. They believe that they deserve any job that they want regardless of how qualified they are, free contraception so that they can sleep around without any consequence (and many of these women don't want kids period, so they don't care about their fertility later on), the right to kill their unborn children because they are an inconvenience to them, and a redistribution of income if they don't earn the exact same thing as a man. I wish it weren't this way, but the great majority of Western women are like this, regardless of whether or not they are secular. In fact, religious women can sometimes be even worse because they believe that they are extra-worthy in G-d's eyes.

You're attracting the wrong kind of women.  The answer is to look inward as to why that is.  I do not mean that rudely.  I can tell you are really struggling with this and that is to be respected not ridiculed

[JTFenthusiast]

112,

How old are you?

[JTFenthusiast]

LKZ,

It's like my grandmother (OBM) used to say, "pretty fades, dumb is forever."  Watch for what you ask for. I'm glad you're 21 and having a good time, but just remember you wont be such hot stuff forever and there's a price to pay for all of these intricate little deceptions going on  .  I'm not laughing at you LKZ.  It's sort of charming in the way that young people can be, but you're closely approaching the age where it will no longer be charming, but marginally sociopathic.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Another thing is, and I'm sure I'll get criticized by some of the guys on this thread about it, but I was born and raised in America.  I never really grew up in the Iranian Jewish community.  So if a guy won't even just say hello to me at a party, then that's not a good sign.

Then my mother always says, marriage is work  (never anything about loving the man, wanting to spend time with him or enjoying his company.)

 1) Maybe he is shy.
 2) Your mother is correct, that is why that older generations have and had better marriage rates. They got married, did not even have high expectations and thought about "what can I do to make this marriage work". Today's day and age people have much higher expectations and do not want to put as much work into the relationship. I'm talking in general both for men and women.
 3) You do not necessarily need to "love" the person, especially not in the way "love" is defined these days. Real love grows with time and sacrifice. That comes after marriage. Not saying you do not need to be attracted, that also is very bad if not, but real lasting long term love comes with time effort, and sacrifice.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

You're attracting the wrong kind of women.  The answer is to look inward as to why that is.  I do not mean that rudely.  I can tell you are really struggling with this and that is to be respected not ridiculed

A big part of it is that I have high standards in terms of intellect, reflection on life decisions, etc. and intelligent, university-educated women are more likely to be feministic than average. There are women that aren't like this, but they tend to be less intelligent and that is a turnoff. A wife is not just a sex partner to me. I want a mental soulmate and it's harder than snot to find that.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Some women want to save men, ever thought of that ...

I was the bad boy type that scored the high school hottie.

She was the best thing that happened to me.

She just wanted a bad-boy; that she wanted to "save you" is what she told her friends so as to seem more acceptable.

[JTFenthusiast]

A big part of it is that I have high standards in terms of intellect, reflection on life decisions, etc. and intelligent, university-educated women are more likely to be feministic than average. There are women that aren't like this, but they tend to be less intelligent and that is a turnoff. A wife is not just a sex partner to me. I want a mental soulmate and it's harder than snot to find that.

Are you DBF?

[Every Jew AK47]

Anyways, sex is less of a sin than masturbation, so I figure I'm avoiding that sin and the sin of brutally killing every annying person in my office and then throwing it all the way to crush the white house if I did neither. Samson did it, I'm just not a sap, and have extreme trust issues from my... well life but youth too.

Wrong!  Sex outside of marriage is sin/immoral.  Look at the sin of Onan, How Hashem struck him dead for using a woman for sexual gratification/pleasure who he didn't plan to marry.  Any form of fornication is looked badly upon.   You sleep around with girls outside marriage for what reason?  We are Jews, an honorable and pure race of people, we are not like others who can pervert and amuse ourselves with carnal pleasures.   

Why are Jewish people perverting themselves and lowering their moral standards?   I hate premarital sex and think it is wrong. 

Actually , I am just so sick of this modern society and the loose morals.  Good luck finding a Jewish girl in the USA who is a virgin in this day and age.  Torah, backed up by many Rabbinical scholars, even says that a Jewish woman who is not a virgin, except for cases of divorce or other legal means of her having previous sexual relations, should be put to death.  From what I have been told, most Rabbinical scholars agree that a marriage with a girl who is not a virgin is not legal.  I would also extend this to a man as well, as with the example in Bereshit 38 with Onan.

Once upon a time, Jewish people fell in love, they didn't need to have one night affairs that they could go brag about to their friends later.   Now, there is all this BS to find a Jewish girl , because most Jewish women in the USA are self-hating feminazis.   And, yes, many Jewish guys have decided to go and sleep around with shiksas, because finding a even-headed, kind and nurturing Jewish girl who isn't dominating or sucking his blood financially has been a real chore.

I really agree with a lot of what Nafraudi said.  It is like he took the words out of my own mouth.


Pardon me, I shouldn't get so emotional about this subject.    Anyway, celibacy helps me not have to worry about all the drama and insantiy, divorces, alimony, once a week or month visits of my own children, loss of firearm rights and all the  hardships I may face if I decided to get married in a Western country.


P.S. Lisa, I find that fascinating you are a Persian Jew.  I have had one Persian Jewish friend who use to sell me beautiful hand made rugs.  I am intrigued to learn more about the culture of Persian Jews.  They are hard to find in the Northwest, but I actually met one at the Chabad once.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Of course, I would ideally want to marry a modern Orthodox woman.  But, where the heck are they???!!  I mean, I've attended the Chabad and many other modern Orthodox kehillot/shuls in the Pacific Northwest and its always dominated by men.  It's almost like Orthodox Judaism is a man's religion.  Every synagogue I go to I hardly see any women.  At any given time, its 300 men to 30 women.  And, every woman there is from an arranged marriage or is under 18 and the daughter of someone.   I know Orthodox Judaism puts much more demands on a woman and goes against the modern, feminist, career-minded and sexually liberated woman, hence, why I tend only find single Jewish women at Reform or the so-called Conservative synagogues.

The question is, when are you going to synagogue?   If it's during the week, don't expect to see women there.   Women basically only show up for yom tov morning davening or Shabbat morning davening (saturday morning).   Otherwise you should expect to see primarily men at the shul if not entirely men!      Davening requirement is less strict for women so they typically don't show up for shul except for Sat morning or Yom Tov morning.
   
The reason the Deform places seem like they are packed to the brim with women is because the men don't go (so that raises the female:male ratio) and the women go because they think synagogue is the only thing there is to the religion (since they don't practice mitzvot such as kashrut, shabbat, family purity, etc).    It's a christianized and feminazified "religion" they follow where praying in the deform synagogue is their path to glory and power over men.
 
Another tip I can offer is to try to be a guest for Shabbat meals at the homes of members of your synagogue.   Sometimes if you impress them and they like you and you've been there a few times (or sometimes even just once) - if they find out you are looking for a wife, they will think of some girl they want to set you up with or contact their friend who knows some girls who are looking.    I can't tell you how many homes I've been in where they ask if I'm dating and then say they want to set me up with someone or they know of girls who are looking.       

[בַּחַמַל]

Lisa just reminded me of a good joke I heard...

Once there was a girl whos parents wanted her to get married.  She would always put off dating or marriage, so her father said to her one day:  "I am going to bring you two suitors, you will go out with both of them, and then you must decide which of them you want to marry".  One week later, A Moroccan arrived one night to take this girl on a date, the next night, a Persian suitor took her out.  A week later, her father approached her and asked her if she had chosen which one she wanted to marry.

"The Moroccan", she replied.  "Why's that?" he asked.  She replied:  "The Moroccan may beat me to death, but the Persian will starve me to death."

[JTFenthusiast]

Lisa just reminded me of a good joke I heard...

Once there was a girl whos parents wanted her to get married.  She would always put off dating or marriage, so her father said to her one day:  "I am going to bring you two suitors, you will go out with both of them, and then you must decide which of them you want to marry".  One week later, A Moroccan arrived one night to take this girl on a date, the next night, a Persian suitor took her out.  A week later, her father approached her and asked her if she had chosen which one she wanted to marry.

"The Moroccan", she replied.  "Why's that?" he asked.  She replied:  "The Moroccan may beat me to death, but the Persian will starve me to death."

Translation for those of us not from either culture...

[Lisa]

Let me tell you guys something about women and virginity.  Unless you're dealing with Orthodox Jews or religious conservative Christians, women who are virgins after age 20, or even sooner are seen as damaged goods.  I've experienced this first hand with dates and gynecologists.  Most average men (Jews included, I hate to say) want a woman who has been broken in properly (pun intended). 

In her excellent book "A Return To Modesty" author Wendy Shalit wrote about a young girl whose boyfriend lost interest in her when he found out she was a virgin. 

Also there was an article a while back on Salon.com about this same topic.  Women in their 20's whose boyfriends learned of their virginity dumped them. 

Now if you really want more examples, I'll be happy to go into detail. 

[JTFenthusiast]

A big part of it is that I have high standards in terms of intellect, reflection on life decisions, etc. and intelligent, university-educated women are more likely to be feministic than average. There are women that aren't like this, but they tend to be less intelligent and that is a turnoff. A wife is not just a sex partner to me. I want a mental soulmate and it's harder than snot to find that.

Just keep dating, you will get there. If you feel on the inside you are ready to meet the woman that you will commit to, then it will happen.  Honestly, I'm not sure you are ready.  I dont know you very well, but I think you are letting bitterness guide you.  In order to find love, you need a free heart and that is a challenge, especially in this era, but it's not impossible

[JTFenthusiast]

Let me tell you guys something about women and virginity.  Unless you're dealing with Orthodox Jews or religious conservative Christians, women who are virgins after age 20, or even sooner are seen as damaged goods.  I've experienced this first hand with dates and gynecologists.  Most average men (Jews included, I hate to say) want a woman who has been broken in properly (pun intended). 

In her excellent book "A Return To Modesty" author Wendy Shalit wrote about a young girl whose boyfriend lost interest in her when he found out she was a virgin. 

Also there was an article a while back on Salon.com about this same topic.  Women in their 20's whose boyfriends learned of their virginity dumped them. 

Now if you really want more examples, I'll be happy to go into detail.

This sounds about right for modern men, for right or for wrong.  They want someone to show them to have a really good time, whupaaaa!  Ergo, my many male friends who are just about dying to have sex with good looking women in their 40s or fifties, they are in their very late twenties and early thirties.  They also want to have sex with women their age to

[JTFenthusiast]

Let me tell you guys something about women and virginity.  Unless you're dealing with Orthodox Jews or religious conservative Christians, women who are virgins after age 20, or even sooner are seen as damaged goods.  I've experienced this first hand with dates and gynecologists.  Most average men (Jews included, I hate to say) want a woman who has been broken in properly (pun intended). 

In her excellent book "A Return To Modesty" author Wendy Shalit wrote about a young girl whose boyfriend lost interest in her when he found out she was a virgin. 

Also there was an article a while back on Salon.com about this same topic.  Women in their 20's whose boyfriends learned of their virginity dumped them. 

Now if you really want more examples, I'll be happy to go into detail.

You mean the gynecologist is telling you what men want?