Author Topic: To Chaim and the forum.  (Read 16757 times)

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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2013, 06:01:10 PM »
The facts of the case were discussed at long length in that other thread. KWRBT and Chaim explained it much better than I could have. The evidence against Weberman was so overwhelming that he was convicted of virtually all charges and sentenced to nearly the maximum. I know some people said that this was an exercise in legal anti-Semitism but that just makes no sense. His victim/s were/are also all Jews and all of them were Satmar members as a matter of fact. I urge you to go back and reread that thread. That chazir Weberman got off easy because he really should be executed. As it is he still got a lesser sentence than Jonathan Pollard.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2013, 06:05:22 PM »
The facts of the case were discussed at long length in that other thread. KWRBT and Chaim explained it much better than I could have. The evidence against Weberman was so overwhelming that he was convicted of virtually all charges and sentenced to nearly the maximum. I know some people said that this was an exercise in legal anti-Semitism but that just makes no sense. His victim/s were/are also all Jews and all of them were Satmar members as a matter of fact. I urge you to go back and reread that thread. That chazir Weberman got off easy because he really should be executed. As it is he still got a lesser sentence than Jonathan Pollard.
I'm pretty sure that in the time of the Jewish Court (a thousand years ago?) Weberman would probably get death. If I'm not mistaken, the punishment for raping an underage girl is stoning or hanging.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #102 on: January 23, 2013, 06:06:27 PM »
But don't quote me on that.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #103 on: January 23, 2013, 06:25:23 PM »
So no one can cite some Lutheran doctrine that says something negative about jews?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #104 on: January 23, 2013, 06:43:34 PM »
I posted a bunch of links about modern Lutheranism on the other page, several of which are denominational statements.

Offline muman613

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #105 on: January 23, 2013, 06:45:55 PM »
So no one can cite some Lutheran doctrine that says something negative about jews?

Apparently the modern Lutheran Church is very anti-Israel and it's roots are in Martin Luthers theological beliefs. I hope you are not defending the Jew hating statements made by one of the pillars of European Antisemitism Martin Luther himself..
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #106 on: January 23, 2013, 06:48:54 PM »
The Lutheran Church did send a letter to the Jewish Community begging to be forgiven for the sins against humanity committed in the name of Lutheranism...


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/lutheran1.html


Declaration of the Evangelical Lutheran Church
in America to the Jewish Community

(April 18, 1994)

The Church Council of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America on April 18, 1994, adopted the following document as a statement on Lutheran-Jewish relations:

In the long history of Christianity there exists no more tragic development than the treatment accorded the Jewish people on the part of Christian believers. Very few Christian communities of faith were able to escape the contagion of anti-Judaism and its modern successor, anti-Semitism. Lutherans belonging to the Lutheran World Federation and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America feel a special burden in this regard because of certain elements in the legacy of the reformer Martin Luther and the catastrophes, including the Holocaust of the twentieth century, suffered by Jews in places where the Lutheran churches were strongly represented.

The Lutheran communion of faith is linked by name and heritage to the memory of Martin Luther, teacher and reformer. Honoring his name in our own, we recall his bold stand for truth, his earthy and sublime words of wisdom, and above all his witness to God's saving Word. Luther proclaimed a gospel for people as we really are, bidding us to trust a grace sufficient to reach our deepest shames and address the most tragic truths.

In the spirit of that truth-telling, we who bear his name and heritage must with pain acknowledge also Luther's anti-Judaic diatribes and the violent recommendations of his later writings against the Jews. As did many of Luther's own companions in the sixteenth century, we reject this violent invective, and yet more do we express our deep and abiding sorrow over its tragic effects on subsequent generations. In concert with the Lutheran World Federation, we particularly deplore the appropriation of Luther's words by modern anti-Semites for the teaching of hatred toward Judaism or toward the Jewish people in our day.

Grieving the complicity of our own tradition within this history of hatred, moreover, we express our urgent desire to live out our faith in JC (Edit) with love and respect for the Jewish people. We recognize in anti-Semitism a contradiction and an affront to the Gospel, a violation of our hope and calling, and we pledge this church to oppose the deadly working of such bigotry, both within our own circles and in the society around us. Finally, we pray for the continued blessing of the Blessed One upon the increasing cooperation and understanding between Lutheran Christians and the Jewish community.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Every Jew AK47

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #107 on: January 23, 2013, 06:52:19 PM »
So no one can cite some Lutheran doctrine that says something negative about jews?

Well, how about the head bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Amercia (ECLA) who has called for investigation of "War Crimes" committed by Israel against the Palestinians.  Mark Hanson, the head bishop of the ECLA is virulently anti-Israel and supports the Arabs.  The ECLA is one of the largest Christian organizations in the USA. 

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/evangelical-lutheran-church-calls-for-us-inquest-into-human-rights-violations-in-israel-and-some-jewish-groups-are-outraged.html


I'm sorry if people think the wrong way of me for saying, but a majority of Lutherans look up to Martin Luther as their inspiration.  I have talked with many Christians who are ignorant of what he has done, but Lutherans, as  a whole, have more knowledge about Martin Luther than other Protestant Christians.   

The Lutheran church today as a whole, not every single Lutheran church, believes Israel was stolen from the Arabs.  I've talked to enough Lutherans to get a consensus on this issue.  This is quite a contrast from Baptists, Church of CHrist, Pentecostals I have talked to who many, are even greater supporters of Israel and the Jewish people, than many Jews I have met.
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Offline muman613

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2013, 06:54:08 PM »
Here are some scathing excerpts from Martin Luthers 'On the Lies of Jews'...

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline briann

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2013, 07:14:31 PM »
Not to get too off subject... but what about Methodists?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2013, 07:41:32 PM »
Not to get too off subject... but what about Methodists?
They are typical far-left pro-Fakestinian mainliners. Did you see the thread I posted last night about the Methodist pastor who murdered both of his wives?

Offline Every Jew AK47

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #111 on: January 23, 2013, 08:06:19 PM »
I've met some decent Methodist people.. Didn't know they were anti-Israel as a whole.  Perhaps, it is the minority?  Maybe you are mixed up with the Presbyterian church, which like the Lutherans, is theologically anti-Israel.
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Offline t_h_j

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #112 on: January 23, 2013, 08:58:39 PM »
Well, how about the head bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Amercia (ECLA) who has called for investigation of "War Crimes" committed by Israel against the Palestinians.  Mark Hanson, the head bishop of the ECLA is virulently anti-Israel and supports the Arabs.  The ECLA is one of the largest Christian organizations in the USA. 

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/evangelical-lutheran-church-calls-for-us-inquest-into-human-rights-violations-in-israel-and-some-jewish-groups-are-outraged.html


I'm sorry if people think the wrong way of me for saying, but a majority of Lutherans look up to Martin Luther as their inspiration.  I have talked with many Christians who are ignorant of what he has done, but Lutherans, as  a whole, have more knowledge about Martin Luther than other Protestant Christians.   

The Lutheran church today as a whole, not every single Lutheran church, believes Israel was stolen from the Arabs.  I've talked to enough Lutherans to get a consensus on this issue.  This is quite a contrast from Baptists, Church of CHrist, Pentecostals I have talked to who many, are even greater supporters of Israel and the Jewish people, than many Jews I have met.

Thats his opinion, not doctrine. Believe it or not there's nothing in Lutheran doctrine about current Israeli politics. Also, there isn't a "jewish" section in there either denouncing them or anyone. I grew up in a Lutheran church. I learned the doctrine. Many of you, obviously, do not share that background and do not have informed opinions unfortunately.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #113 on: January 23, 2013, 08:59:14 PM »
And a good Lutheran you are indeed, Hidden Author.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #114 on: January 23, 2013, 09:10:05 PM »
And a good Lutheran you are indeed, Hidden Author.

Show me the anti semetic lutheran doctrine. Should be easy to find in that catechism

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #115 on: January 23, 2013, 09:22:13 PM »
Show me the anti semetic lutheran doctrine. Should be easy to find in that catechism
Sorry to say this my friend, but they defensively believe in replacement theology, my father in law is a minister. But I was influence by anti Trinitarian beliefs.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #116 on: January 23, 2013, 09:24:09 PM »
Sorry to say this my friend, but they defensively believe in replacement theology, my father in law is a minister. But I was influence by anti Trinitarian beliefs.
Not to take this offtopic, but the Trinity does not pertain to replacement theology.

Offline t_h_j

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2013, 09:53:35 PM »
Sorry to say this my friend, but they defensively believe in replacement theology, my father in law is a minister. But I was influence by anti Trinitarian beliefs.

What kind of minister?

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2013, 10:04:46 PM »
Not to take this offtopic, but the Trinity does not pertain to replacement theology.
Maybe not, but I would like to remind you that many of the Protestant reformers were anti Trinitarian, and overtime went back. When they went back to Hashem, some miracles happened, the seven Crusades against the Hussites, the settling of America,etc.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2013, 10:05:58 PM »
What kind of minister?
A Lutheran minister.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2013, 10:06:38 PM »
Maybe not, but I would like to remind you that many of the Protestant reformers were anti Trinitarian, and overtime went back. When they went back to Hashem, some miracles happened, the seven Crusades against the Hussites, the settling of America,etc.
The Pilgrims were mainstream Trinitarian Christians.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #121 on: January 23, 2013, 10:10:53 PM »
I'm trying to understand this.  Isn't lutheranism based on luther?  Hence, the name?

Ok I'm done.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2013, 10:14:38 PM »
I'm trying to understand this.  Isn't lutheranism based on luther?  Hence, the name?

Ok I'm done.
Yes.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2013, 10:15:29 PM »
The Pilgrims were mainstream Trinitarian Christians.
No they were not!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: To Chaim and the forum.
« Reply #124 on: January 23, 2013, 10:22:25 PM »
This crap doesn't matter anymore! Every religion has murderers and pedophiles! You can't generalize a whole religion based on a some bad apples. (Islam is something different altogether, and I'm too tired to get into it now). You guys are always picking on the entire black race, and now on on Luterhans and Satmars. Some do evil things, others don't. Why are we fighting over this?