Execrable Haredi threat to cede Yesha

[Yerusha]

Just to expose the truth of Chaim always quoting his grandmother (on his Ashkenazi side) that der greyser der bord der greyser der ganav - "the bigger the beard the bigger the thief" , the UTJ Haredim are now threatening
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=303564
to ACTUALLY expedite the dismantling of Yesha unlesss they get in to the coalition on their terms

In his days, Rav Kahane used to say that "The Haredim are IRRELEVANT!".



But in these days, most Haredim (c80%) have morphed in to as great a disgraceful sakonoh to Israel as the Leftists and Arabs: thieves, lazy, unwilling to do the Army, unwilling to do National Service, unwilling to work, unwilling to even genuinely study Torah, and now prepared to support further deportations and hand over parts of Yesha to the PLO and worse: they will not be zocheh to stand at the Hisgalus!

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Dude shut up! How many "Haredim" have you spoken with personally? You quote 1 person and wrote "The Haredim" Blaa blaaa blaaa. It is like someone (a non-Jew) having a bad experience with a Jew and then saying "The JEWS" Blaa blaaa blaaa. Just like Haman by the way.

[Yerusha]

As the Lubavitcher Rebbe warned: אסור אפילו לדבר על וויתור מחלקי ארץ ישראל


http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=303564

UTJ weighs backing aggressive peace agenda

The move is likely a ploy by the ultra-Orthodox party to pressure Bayit Yehudi into scaling back rhetoric on haredi enlistment.

United Torah Judaism is currently considering whether or not to support an aggressive peace agenda, sources within the party told The Jerusalem Post on Sunday.

The move is likely a ploy by the ultra-Orthodox party to pressure the Bayit Yehudi party and its leader Naftali Bennett into scaling back its rhetoric on the issue of haredi enlistment.

During his inaugural Knesset speech last week, Bennett called on haredim (ultra- Orthodox) to enlist, stating that military service was a religious obligation and that the ultra-Orthodox community must share the state’s economic and military burdens.

A UTJ official told the Post that the party was considering supporting a raft of measures such as a settlement freeze, the evacuation of unauthorized settlement outposts and the reopening of peace negotiations with the Palestinians.

Such a move, he said, would allow the prime minister to form a coalition with left leaning parties including The Tzipi Livni Party and even Meretz, and leave Bayit Yehudi outside of the government.

The source noted that the upcoming visit of US President Barak Obama would likely bring new pressure from the White House to make concessions to the Palestinians, something that his party is now considering supporting.

The UTJ official said that the preservation of military service exemptions for haredi yeshiva students was the single most important issue on the party’s agenda and that UTJ would be willing to compromise on other issues in order to maintain the status quo on haredi enlistment.

“The haredi public thinks that Bennett has gone to war against them,” the UTJ official said. “We want to remind him that Netanyahu can build a coalition without Bayit Yehudi and remind the national religious community that Bennett ran a campaign on strengthening the national bloc and the settlements, not on forming agreements with Yesh Atid.”

According to the Council of Jewish Communities of Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, 17% of voters in their region gave their support to the United Torah Judaism, as opposed to Shas, which garnered only 10% of their vote.

UTJ did particularly well in the two largest West Bank settlements, Modin Illit and Beitar Illit, where more people voted for them than any other party.

The Council calculates that 25,108 people voted for UTJ in Judea and Samaria, which means that almost one of the party's seven mandates comes from that region.

Council spokesman Yigal Delmonti said in response that those in UTJ who would support a freeze does not represent the population that voted for them, because such a vote would only harm the religious communities and their many supporters in Judea and Samaria.


Remember: without the support of the Haredim (Degel, Aguda & Shas) there would have been no Oslo!

[muman613]

Do not attack the 'haredim' as one. Maybe their political leadership is corrupt but it is not a reason to speak like this against all those who identify as Haredim. I find these posts disgusting...

[Yerusha]

Don't forget that Lubavitchers, Breslov, Amsalemniks, Poalei Aguda, the Blue Shirts and a part of the Lithuanian world are not considered 'Haredim' in the Kahanist sense.

[muman613]

Don't forget that Lubavitchers, Breslov, Amsalemniks, Polaei Aguda and a part of the Lithuanian world are not considered 'Haredim' in the Kahanist sense.

Yerusha, the issue is not whether we know these Jews or not. Whether they are our 'brothers' or not. I have been taught by my Rabbis, and others, that Ahavat Yisrael includes loving Jews who are not like we are just as much as our actual brothers and sisters.

I agree that it is inexcusable to join any government which will give away our heritage. I do not waver in the support of the Jewish peoples right to build and grow in the land of our forefathers. And while I will strongly disagree with those who do have any inclination to consider this, I will not openly curse them or call them 'irrelevant'. I guess I take the concept of Lashon Hara literally, because even if it is true it is not good to bring things to light which shame the entire Jewish nation. We should address our rebuke to those 'Haradim' who we can influence and work toward their understanding the goal of religious Zionism.

This is my opinion. You can consider it or not, but I had to say this.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Don't forget that Lubavitchers, Breslov, Amsalemniks, Poalei Aguda, the Blue Shirts and a part of the Lithuanian world are not considered 'Haredim' in the Kahanist sense.

Blue shirts?

Haredim in the kahanist sense?  Now you are just speaking gibberish.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Blue shirts?

Haredim in the kahanist sense?  Now you are just speaking gibberish.

 By "Kahanist sense" he or she means his/her sense (Wonga!!!!)

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php?topic=40599.55;wap2

HEBREWHONOR:
wonga66:
"Rabbi Kahane always said that "the Haredim are irrelevant!". And shame to tell, this is basically true! "

rabbi kahane never said this , and when this was raised at another forum (by i asume , you ?) lenny goldberg came and approved this is a lie .
 
"Witness the 2005 Hitnatkut: apart from a handful of Lubavitchers, not one Haredi took part in the demonstrations against the dastardly Gaza Deportation of their fellow Jews. "

the haredim arranged a huge prayer&demonstration on the wailing wall

"Had even a few % of the Haredim with their vast numbers taken part, it would have blocked the whole deportation."

there was blockades preventing the tousands from entering , many of those , indeed was charedim (and not just chabad)
berslovim are not charedim ? charedim spharadim are not charedim ?  come on ...

"There were no calls at all by Haredi leaders, politicians, rebbes, ravs or roshei yeshivahs to demonstrate."

not true at all , like i said , they arranged mass prayer-protest , and all politicians of the charedi parties didn't voted for that plan

"And the Haredi parties kept Sharon's government afloat during it, in exchange for $$$!"

shas wasn't in the goverment ... and yahadut hatorah only joined after the vote (in which they didn't supported on the knesset voting assembly)
the reason they joined the goverment , is not to keep sharon's goverment afloat , it is because they wanted what they came there to do in the first place , get money for their toranical institutions , this is why they are they are in the knesset for in the first place , to get money for this goals , since , unlike secular institutions, who have a yearly budget anchored by legislation in the country's yearly budget , charedi institutions dont ...so they work for that aim , with any goverment who are willing to give it , they are sectorial  paries , on the bottom line, and act according to that
shas however , chosed to not be a part of that criminal goverment , and i belive yahadut hatorah should have followed that path ..but i dont think its fair describing it with this simpilifaction kind of image , which might sound like , they actually joined the goverment because they suppoted what the goverment was doing g-d forbid ...that is absolutely not the case

[Yerusha]

"Blue Shirts" are the new phenomenon of employed nominal Haredim who wear white shirts for Shabbos, but wear blue shirts during the week at their jobs of bus drivers, bank clerks, post office clerks, repair men etc, to demonstrate  that they are proud of being part of Israel's work force and are not to be considered as "parazitim", which is the epithet most Israelis give to unemployed full-benefits claiming Haredi males above yeshiva age!

Needless to say, the "White Shirts" loathe the "Blue Shirts" and view them as being freiers for working!

"Haredi in the Kahanist sense" refers to those Haredim who are anti-Zionist, who revile the State of Israel, who would stone Israeli soldiers driving on pikuach nefesh and security duty on shabbos, who would scream at/stone Rabbi Kahane when he would go in to Bnei Brak, Sanhedria, Netanya, Ashdod, and Meah Shearim and sing Hatikvah, or who support even if only in principal the idea of "Land for Peace".


There will not be a milchemet achim, because they are not our achim!" (Rav Kahane)

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

What a sicko. Why don't you actually read what Rav Kahane himself wrote on the "Haredim" and how those just like you love to vilify them. The last quote LOL he wrote about those like you who precisely vilify others like this and he specifically wrote that against a minority of Hellinists and in reference to them. And by the way his writing in his later years particulary "Revolution or Referendum" where you got his quote from was much stronger inclined to the "Haredi" approach then his earlier works which were a little inclined (not exactly accepted but inclined) to the "mamlachti Religious-Zionist" approach. (key word "inclined")

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Anything to attack Jews. I told him off with the military commander thing, and you guys had his back because it was me saying it. Now if this doesn't prove anything to you, you're all blind.

 Never had Wonga's back.

[Yerusha]

Bennett shows guts in visiting the non-Hassidic Haredi Torah learning center of Mir Yeshiva today
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/165364



I've seen Bennett speak in person and he has enough charisma and gravitas to pull off a change, which is just what the old generation of Haredi leaders are terrified of!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Anything to attack Jews. I told him off with the military commander thing, and you guys had his back because it was me saying it. Now if this doesn't prove anything to you, you're all blind.

What are you talking about?  This guy has been banned 100 times from the forum and keeps coming back under different names.  We all already know wonga is a troll.   I don't even know who you are.

I knew haredim who worked in Israel and they wore the same white shirts they wore all the time and for shabbos when they were working so I really think this guy has some kind of imagination, possibly drug induced.

[Yerusha]

UTJ's latest selfish policy: "Raze Yesha but save our Yeshivas!"
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/165411

This is really showing that many Haredim in this generation are of the Kabbala's Erev Katan (as opposed to Erev Rav) - "The Mixed Minitude" ie those who believe in Hashem & Torah & keep all mitzvos precisely, but who nevertheless act contrary to His Will and are actually His enemies!

[Ephraim Ben Noach]

I occasionally waste time instead of working by posting things I already know here. How the hell are you supposed to ever know anything about me? Ephraim thinks I'm a nazi named marbus, lady10 thinks I'm immature and everything I post is useless, Rubystars thinks I'm a drug addicted nazi from StørmFrønt, waitingforthemother thinks the same, and that I am also a saboteur hell-bent on destroying this forum, and the new users that I think are really trolls hate me too.

There isn't a chance in hell I would even allow a mistake like letting anyone here ever meet me, other than Chaim, Muman and Dan ben Noah. As for you, I'm more than happy to keep our relationship nice and non-existant.

I actually don't think you are marbus, you write to well! I welcomed you back, then you started picking at me and called me a troll, so I went after you.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I occasionally waste time instead of working by posting things I already know here. How the hell are you supposed to ever know anything about me? Ephraim thinks I'm a nazi named marbus, lady10 thinks I'm immature and everything I post is useless, Rubystars thinks I'm a drug addicted nazi from StørmFrønt, waitingforthemother thinks the same, and that I am also a saboteur hell-bent on destroying this forum, and the new users that I think are really trolls hate me too.

There isn't a chance in hell I would even allow a mistake like letting anyone here ever meet me, other than Chaim, Muman and Dan ben Noah. As for you, I'm more than happy to keep our relationship nice and non-existant.

Like I said, I have no idea who you are, so why would you even bring this up?

I didn't ask for your opinion about meeting me but thanks for playing, chief.