General Category > General Discussion
Haredims and Kahanists ?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
What movie is that from?
His beard is legit at least.
wonga66:
"The Order": a mediocre film with Christological overtones, but with some good fight scenes, where Van Damme, dressed as a Haredi, uses his karate to duff over Arabs and overweight Israeli policemen in the Old City of Jerusalem!
HEBREWHONOR:
wonga66:
"Rabbi Kahane always said that "the Haredim are irrelevant!". And shame to tell, this is basically true! "
rabbi kahane never said this , and when this was raised at another forum (by i asume , you ?) lenny goldberg came and approved this is a lie .
"Witness the 2005 Hitnatkut: apart from a handful of Lubavitchers, not one Haredi took part in the demonstrations against the dastardly Gaza Deportation of their fellow Jews. "
the haredim arranged a huge prayer&demonstration on the wailing wall
"Had even a few % of the Haredim with their vast numbers taken part, it would have blocked the whole deportation."
there was blockades preventing the tousands from entering , many of those , indeed was charedim (and not just chabad)
berslovim are not charedim ? charedim spharadim are not charedim ? come on ...
"There were no calls at all by Haredi leaders, politicians, rebbes, ravs or roshei yeshivahs to demonstrate."
not true at all , like i said , they arranged mass prayer-protest , and all politicians of the charedi parties didn't voted for that plan
"And the Haredi parties kept Sharon's government afloat during it, in exchange for $$$!"
shas wasn't in the goverment ... and yahadut hatorah only joined after the vote (in which they didn't supported on the knesset voting assembly)
the reason they joined the goverment , is not to keep sharon's goverment afloat , it is because they wanted what they came there to do in the first place , get money for their toranical institutions , this is why they are they are in the knesset for in the first place , to get money for this goals , since , unlike secular institutions, who have a yearly budget anchored by legislation in the country's yearly budget , charedi institutions dont ...so they work for that aim , with any goverment who are willing to give it , they are sectorial paries , on the bottom line, and act according to that
shas however , chosed to not be a part of that criminal goverment , and i belive yahadut hatorah should have followed that path ..but i dont think its fair describing it with this simpilifaction kind of image , which might sound like , they actually joined the goverment because they suppoted what the goverment was doing g-d forbid ...that is absolutely not the case
wonga66:
That R. Kahane said that "The Haredim are irrelevant" I heard this from R.Kahane himself in 1981. And you can call up his wife who'll confirm that that was one of his aphorisms, and also other of his mishpoche I've spoken to.
I do not view Lubavitch and Breslov as "Haredim". Lubavitch and Breslov are the closest of all the Hassidic groups in yichus to the Baal Shem Tov and to his Chassidic teachings, and therefore are 'truer' Chassidim ie probably have a higher % of correct ideology in them. The other Hassidic groups have tenuous connections to the Besht. And those like Satmar and Toldos Aharon, no connection at all.
Also the Lubavitcher Rebbe was right wing when it came to Eretz Yisroel and holding on to all territories and siezing those beyond, and most of his policies were in accord with Kahanism.
I define "Haredim" as the other 95% of black-garbed masses of Orthodox Jewry, Hassidic and non-Hassidic, who have little or no interest in Jewry or Eretz Yisroel outside of their own communities and narrow political agendas and financial interests, who totally disdain the "settlers' in Yesha, and whose rebbes and roshei yeshivah are as far from Kahanism as Shulamit Aloni.
There may have been paper notices for prayer meetings and expressing verbal opposition to the Hitnatkut by Ovadiya Yosef and Shas, who tried to make political capital out of it, but there was no mass Haredi turn out anywhere.
And even Breslovers and Lubavitchers were not to be seen at the actual physical demonstrations in Gush Kativ in July 2005. If only a few % of Haredim had turned out to join the non-Haredi protesters, which was too thin on the ground, in blocking the main Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway in May, in numbers that could not be moved, the story may have been different.
Today too, no Haredi will join a physical demo, unless he's actually ordered to by his rebbe or rosh yeshivah, or unless his home own home in Yesha is physically threatened.
Haredim are tough, heavyweight, strapping, healthy men. This is just a tiny fraction of the Belzer community in Jerusalem alone.
And here a small part of the Viznitz community
Imagine if contingents from Belz, Bobov, Vizhnitz, Satmar, Toldos Aharon, Sadigur, Sanz, Ger, Ponovezh, Mirrer, Shas etc etc etc had all camped outside the Knesset to protest the Gaza Deportation and not moved: Sharon would have had no choice but to back down, or gun them down. I think he would have chosen the latter!
Rabbi Kahane's motto that "the Haredim are irrelevant" is as true as ever! Just like Noach took the entire reward of his generation, and Avraham of his, and R.Kahane likely of most of his, one day it may be shown that our little Chayim took a large chunk of the reward of all the these Haredi masses!
Chai:
--- Quote from: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on December 27, 2009, 11:38:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 15, 2009, 10:06:46 AM ---
--- Quote from: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on December 15, 2009, 09:11:18 AM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 06, 2009, 08:25:41 AM ---It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.
--- End quote ---
i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.
--- End quote ---
They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.
--- End quote ---
i find nothing wrong in that, and i also read that liberal Jews are protesting against this. Let me tell you... In India 70% of the schools/colleges have segregated seating arrangements for boys and girls. While 90% of public transport services in India too have segregated seating arrangements. Maybe this is because of Hindu culture/ethics. But, we never felt it restricts our freedom or that it is too strict.
--- End quote ---
Its not as simple as you think. Did you know that in the bet hamikdash (Solomons temple) men and women were not segregated. Its not about ethics. In Hamadan it was unheard of for a man and his wife to be separated in social functions like weddings yet, many charadi do this. I understand the topic of the "sausage fest" , yet I do agree we should not be animals. But if you think about it, if one is married, he will be with his wife (or should be if they like each other lol) If they are single, all the more reason for segregation not to be implemented so one can find his soul mate. Segregation for me personally is more for modesty such as bathrooms, changing rooms etc, not for being separated from your wife during dinner at a wedding.
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