Druze security guard murders Jew. Shoots him 14 times!

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/169580#.UdXkKPk3sfQ

[muman613]

Dirty bastard should get the needle but he will be given clemency because he only killed a Jew...

[Binyamin Yisrael]

JTF should work to defeat Nir Barkat. A commenter on that article blames him for Arab security guards in Jerusalem.

I've seen black guards protecting the Arabs on the Temple Mount from Jews. I wonder if they claim to be Ethiopian Jews. If so, their conversion was fake. They would have to go to the mikveh to go up there every day. They're more like black Muslims or "the fruit of Islam". I saw the same type of guard at Bank Leumi in New York once. I wanted to go in and see the bank (There were displays about the history of the bank.). That black Muslim looking person wouldn't let me in so I said "Yimach Shemecha". He looked more like a real African black Muslim (Perhaps a black Arab like those in Sudan.). He wasn't the UMM HMM type of black Muslim.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I've seen black guards protecting the Arabs on the Temple Mount from Jews. I wonder if they claim to be Ethiopian Jews. If so, their conversion was fake.

BS.

Why do you slander an entire group of Jews like this? 

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Any Jew who works for the Police on the Temple Mount against religious Jews is a traitor to the Jewish People. If Ethiopians want to be Jewish, they should have real conversions. Bnei Menashe require a full conversion. Why a double standard for lost Jews in Africa. It's probably because the government knows that the Bnei Menashe come to Israel and become religious Jews and live in Judea and Samaria that they make it easier for Ethiopians to come in. Neither have mesorah to prove their Jewishness. The same is true with the Anusim in Spain, Portugal, and Latin America. Why make it harder for Jews descended from Sfardic victims of the Spanish Inquisition and make it easy for Ethiopians? If a community has no Beit Din, valid Ketubot, and valid Gitim, how do we know theiyr Halachic validity. I guess the Rebbe was racist according to what you said. I hold by the Rebbe on this and I'm not Chabad. He said Schvartzen Nisht Yiden. Of course Chabad recognizes those that convert Al Pi Halacha. I agree. It's the same for all races that want to convert. It's no racist.

[ChabadKahanist]

Any Jew who works for the Police on the Temple Mount against religious Jews is a traitor to the Jewish People. If Ethiopians want to be Jewish, they should have real conversions. Bnei Menashe require a full conversion. Why a double standard for lost Jews in Africa. It's probably because the government knows that the Bnei Menashe come to Israel and become religious Jews and live in Judea and Samaria that they make it easier for Ethiopians to come in. Neither have mesorah to prove their Jewishness. The same is true with the Anusim in Spain, Portugal, and Latin America. Why make it harder for Jews descended from Sfardic victims of the Spanish Inquisition and make it easy for Ethiopians? If a community has no Beit Din, valid Ketubot, and valid Gitim, how do we know theiyr Halachic validity. I guess the Rebbe was racist according to what you said. I hold by the Rebbe on this and I'm not Chabad. He said Schvartzen Nisht Yiden. Of course Chabad recognizes those that convert Al Pi Halacha. I agree. It's the same for all races that want to convert. It's no racist.

Not only the Rebbe,ZT"L,ZY"A said so but so did HaRav Moshe Feinstein,ZT"L,ZY"A & all others besides Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.
I just wonder how much of a pay off from the Israeli government Rabbi Yosef got to make such a ruling?
It wouldn't surprise me at all considering what ganavim & money grubbers the Shas party are which he is the spiritual leader of.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Any Jew who works for the Police on the Temple Mount against religious Jews is a traitor to the Jewish People.

This statement has nothing to do with your slander of Ethiopians.

And the people who did this shooting are DRUZE, not ethiopian Jews.

If Ethiopians want to be Jewish, they should have real conversions. 

If Ethiopians want to be Jewish they should have what the rabbis told them to have.   Many of them did.   You slander them indiscriminately.  That is just wrong.

Bnei Menashe require a full conversion. Why a double standard for lost Jews in Africa.

First of all what does Africa have to do with it?  I thought we were talking specifically about Ethiopian Jews.
2nd, there was no "double standard."  There was a different standard because of their different history and different background than the bnei Menashe you refer to.   I trust the greatest rabbis of Israel and the world to deal with this issue, rather than an internet warrior who may or may not be an ignoramus but has an aversion to black-skinned people.   

It's probably because the government knows that the Bnei Menashe come to Israel and become religious Jews and live in Judea and Samaria that they make it easier for Ethiopians to come in. Neither have mesorah to prove their Jewishness. The same is true with the Anusim in Spain, Portugal, and Latin America. Why make it harder for Jews descended from Sfardic victims of the Spanish Inquisition and make it easy for Ethiopians? If a community has no Beit Din, valid Ketubot, and valid Gitim, how do we know theiyr Halachic validity. I guess the Rebbe was racist according to what you said. 

LOL, what?  I never said anything about racism.   Looks like you are condemning yourself with your own speech.

  I hold by the Rebbe on this and I'm not Chabad.

"The Rebbe" was one of many great rabbanim of that time.   He certainly was not the most renown posek of America (Rav Feinstein takes that honor), and he didn't even live in Israel.  So how is what he said relevant when other great rabbis said otherwise?   You are simply using it to fuel your personal vandetta.   We can't turn back the clock - this is akin to those who today still argue over whether there should or should not be a Jewish state.   There is a Jewish state.    And the Ethiopian matter was already taken care of years ago.  It is wrong to slander those Jews.

He said Schvartzen Nisht Yiden.

Oh, well, if he said that, then I guess that's halacha l'moshe misinai huh?   Except that is nowhere in any Jewish source, especially considering our Talmudic and rishonic sources are in Aramaic and Hebrew, not yiddish.

Of course Chabad recognizes those that convert Al Pi Halacha. I agree. It's the same for all races that want to convert. It's no racist.

Again, defending yourself against a racism charge that I didn't level at you.    Sounds like someone is self-conscious and revealing themselves here.

[muman613]

KWRBT,

I am encouraged with your response. I also agree that it is wrong to slander the entire Jewish Ethiopian community for the deeds of one evil druze guard. I think the issue of racism has become more evident in recent years. Everyone who knows me knows that I stand up for Jews of all races, colors, and creeds (even defending those Jews of the reform persuasion).

It should be clear, as I have tried to clarify, that condemning social institutions of other races does not in itself become racist if it is only the social institution we despise. The dominant 'black' culture we see in America, and in third world countries dominated by darker skinned races, deserve rebuke. According to Jewish belief, that our Torah proscribes the preferred life-style, we are to rebuke those cultures which run contrary to our views.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

KWRBT,

I am encouraged with your response. I also agree that it is wrong to slander the entire Jewish Ethiopian community for the deeds of one evil druze guard. I think the issue of racism has become more evident in recent years. Everyone who knows me knows that I stand up for Jews of all races, colors, and creeds (even defending those Jews of the reform persuasion). 

Thank you.

It should be clear, as I have tried to clarify, that condemning social institutions of other races does not in itself become racist if it is only the social institution we despise. The dominant 'black' culture we see in America, and in third world countries dominated by darker skinned races, deserve rebuke. According to Jewish belief, that our Torah proscribes the preferred life-style, we are to rebuke those cultures which run contrary to our views.

Agreed.

[Mishmaat]

I hate the ugly direction that this thread has taken. What the hell does this story have to do with black people?

By the way, I agree with KWRBT and muman that the Ethiopian Jews are Jews.

Now concerning this story, these two animals, may their names and memories be obliterated, should be torn limb from limb.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

The blacks I was referring to on the Temple Mount may not even claim to be Jewish. Maybe they were working for the Wakf. They could have been black Muslims. Also, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is present in Israel. It predates the State. So just because someone is Ethiopian and lives in Israel doesn't make him Jewish. One of the blacks I was referring to can be seen in the video posted in the below thread.

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,70311.msg600756.html#msg600756

[ChabadKahanist]

This statement has nothing to do with your slander of Ethiopians.

And the people who did this shooting are DRUZE, not ethiopian Jews.
If Ethiopians want to be Jewish they should have what the rabbis told them to have.   Many of them did.   You slander them indiscriminately.  That is just wrong.

First of all what does Africa have to do with it?  I thought we were talking specifically about Ethiopian Jews.
2nd, there was no "double standard."  There was a different standard because of their different history and different background than the bnei Menashe you refer to.   I trust the greatest rabbis of Israel and the world to deal with this issue, rather than an internet warrior who may or may not be an ignoramus but has an aversion to black-skinned people.   


LOL, what?  I never said anything about racism.   Looks like you are condemning yourself with your own speech.
"The Rebbe" was one of many great rabbanim of that time.   He certainly was not the most renown posek of America (Rav Feinstein takes that honor), and he didn't even live in Israel.  So how is what he said relevant when other great rabbis said otherwise?   You are simply using it to fuel your personal vandetta.   We can't turn back the clock - this is akin to those who today still argue over whether there should or should not be a Jewish state.   There is a Jewish state.    And the Ethiopian matter was already taken care of years ago.  It is wrong to slander those Jews.
 
Oh, well, if he said that, then I guess that's halacha l'moshe misinai huh?   Except that is nowhere in any Jewish source, especially considering our Talmudic and rishonic sources are in Aramaic and Hebrew, not yiddish.

Again, defending yourself against a racism charge that I didn't level at you.    Sounds like someone is self-conscious and revealing themselves here.

Name one legitimate posek here in Israel besides Abdulah Yousef that said that they are Jews without giyur?
Rav Eliyashiv,ZT"L said that they need giyur.
How can they be real Jews if they do not have gemara,mishna,shulchan aruch & Rambam or even Hebrew language as part of their rituals?
Real Jews have all that.
As I said earlier in this thread I am curious as to how much the Israeli government paid Abdula Yousef to make such a ruling which is contrary all legitimate poskim in Israel as you know as spiritual leader of Shas he is is suspect.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

CK- ugly reaall ugly.

[ChabadKahanist]

CK- ugly reaall ugly.

Why ugly?
Because I am stating facts?
They have to do giyur just like the Bnai Menashe or the Bnai Ansuim if they wany to be considered Jews  & as a matter of fact without giyur the rabbanut will not marry them.
If Rav Moshe Feinstein, Rav Eliyashiv & The Lubavitcher Rebbe said that they need giyur that is more than enough for me.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

    I don't know the situation well on this topic but their can be a situation even of Daat Yahid but just because that person has that Halahic opinion doesn't call for insults especially not in this case. First you state that he is a valid Posek and then you trash him personally for his Halahic stance on this issue.
 
   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

    I don't know the situation well on this topic but their can be a situation even of Daat Yahid but just because that person has that Halahic opinion doesn't call for insults especially not in this case. First you state that he is a valid Posek and then you trash him personally for his Halahic stance on this issue.
 
 

Its like the old question which came first, the chicken or the egg, which came first his hatred of Rabbi Yosef or his hatred of R Yosef's din.

In any case, my understanding is that many of them (but not all) did undergo what Rav Feinstein suggested.  Is that incorrect?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Its like the old question which came first, the chicken or the egg, which came first his hatred of Rabbi Yosef or his hatred of R Yosef's din.

In any case, my understanding is that many of them (but not all) did undergo what Rav Feinstein suggested.  Is that incorrect?

 I really don't know about the giur situation of these people. Also not sure about what should or should not constitute a valid giur. Their are a range of things said some saying full acceptance and practice of the Torah while the other side is just those who want to join Am Yisrael. I really do not know but to assume that the Psak (especially without any real evidence) is some how politically connected or something like that (motivated some how about money to a person who isn't even paid by the Israeli gov. and has more than enough $ of his own through his published books) is preposterous to say the least and seems like it came out of a donkeys ass.

[ChabadKahanist]

 I really don't know about the giur situation of these people. Also not sure about what should or should not constitute a valid giur. Their are a range of things said some saying full acceptance and practice of the Torah while the other side is just those who want to join Am Yisrael. I really do not know but to assume that the Psak (especially without any real evidence) is some how politically connected or something like that (motivated some how about money to a person who isn't even paid by the Israeli gov. and has more than enough $ of his own through his published books) is preposterous to say the least and seems like it came out of a donkeys ass.

Have seen what Shas & their leadership do & have done I assume everything & anything they & their leadership do has shekel signs attached.
R'Ovadia & his Shas enabled Oslo & Gush Katif & he more recently he said & I quote "Dismantle the settlements just don't touch our yeshivot".
With actions & attitudes like this how can one not assume.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Actually I just googled (because you mentioned and for my interest) " ovadia yosef settlements" and the first thing that came up was


  http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/11/keep-your-hands-off-west-bank-settlements-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-says-456.html


Keep Your Hands Off West Bank Settlements, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef Says
 The preeminent Sefadi haredi rabbinic leader who is also the spiritual head of the Shas political party tell Israel's prime minister to keep illegal West Bank outposts built by West Bank settlers intact.
-

 Soo why you spreading Motzi Shem Ra?

[ChabadKahanist]

Actually I just googled (because you mentioned and for my interest) " ovadia yosef settlements" and the first thing that came up was


  http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/11/keep-your-hands-off-west-bank-settlements-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-says-456.html


Keep Your Hands Off West Bank Settlements, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef Says
 The preeminent Sefadi haredi rabbinic leader who is also the spiritual head of the Shas political party tell Israel's prime minister to keep illegal West Bank outposts built by West Bank settlers intact.
-

 Soo why you spreading Motzi Shem Ra?

This before they wanted to draft Chareidim into the IDF & I certainly trust Arutz 7 over Shamaya Rosenberg the self-hating Jew.
Also do you deny that R'Ovadia's Shas party enabled Oslo & Gush Katif?
Look aty Wkipedia & what he is quoted in saying about giving up territory.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Why do you slander an entire group of Jews like this?

Because Binyamin is obsessed with race. Sometimes he reminds me of a Pedofronter.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The blacks I was referring to on the Temple Mount may not even claim to be Jewish. Maybe they were working for the Wakf. They could have been black Muslims. Also, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is present in Israel. It predates the State. So just because someone is Ethiopian and lives in Israel doesn't make him Jewish. One of the blacks I was referring to can be seen in the video posted in the below thread.

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,70311.msg600756.html#msg600756

Go to StørmFrønt if you want to have discussions like this.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

CK- dude seriously? You use the media to slam him yet when I just showed you a quick search on this same topic you dismiss it because its from the media? You need to chill out and if you are to have a Halahic discussion with others here how about showing some respect? The Hurban happened in great deal because of attitudes like these where the different factions started disrespecting each other not respecting their halahic stances and even referring each other as kofrim etc. No unity, Sinat Hinam brought about the destruction because of instead of fighting the Roman Occupiers we fought amoungst ourselves and didn't show the proper kavod.

[ChabadKahanist]

CK- dude seriously? You use the media to slam him yet when I just showed you a quick search on this same topic you dismiss it because its from the media? You need to chill out and if you are to have a Halahic discussion with others here how about showing some respect? The Hurban happened in great deal because of attitudes like these where the different factions started disrespecting each other not respecting their halahic stances and even referring each other as kofrim etc. No unity, Sinat Hinam brought about the destruction because of instead of fighting the Roman Occupiers we fought amoungst ourselves and didn't show the proper kavod.

You have a point however R' Ovadia's recent diatribes against chief rabbi candidate Rabbi David Stav did exactly & he called Rabbi Stav a kofer which is not at all nice & also considering that the interior minstry under Shas denied Chaim & other good Jews entry into Israel & aliyah.
Shas is R'Oavdia & R'Ovadia is Shas & all their actions reflect on him.

[muman613]

I regret getting involved in this discussion. I do agree with Tag that disrespecting the Rabbi like this is not appropriate.

I do agree that Rab Ovadia Yosef has made several questionable decisions in the past which lead me to believe that he has not decided correctly concerning 'land for peace' issues and the question of 'pikuach nefesh'. I respect his halachic opinions but believe that he should get out of politics because it seems to taint his decisions.