My point was... Kabbalah would have been a heresy to the gentile Christians, so it was kept secret by the Jews until later. Maybe you guys abandoned it out of fear of being accused of Satanism, and it stuck. Now here you are, fighting about a belief Jews had originally.
What sort of influence would Jews have received in Eastern Europe?
The Torah seems pretty mystical to me. Also why were some books left out of the Tanach?
Did that make sense?
Sorry, but in light of even a superficial knowledge of Jewish history, your claims are laughable.
My point was... Kabbalah would have been a heresy to the gentile Christians, so it was kept secret by the Jews until later. Maybe you guys abandoned it out of fear of being accused of Satanism, and it stuck. Now here you are, fighting about a belief Jews had originally.
And maybe the moon is made of cheese. It seems to me that rather than study Jewish history and what actually happened you are inventing speculation about past events (really, non-events) to fit your own personal beliefs.
Judaism itself was a heresy to gentiles, especially once gentiles formed the Catholic Church and the Byzantine empire. We lived and breathed heresy in the eyes of those gentiles and we did not make our religion into some secret. We practiced it and were persecuted severely.
There is not one kabbalist or scholar of kabbalah who claims that it was kept hidden because of fear of the gentiles. Not one.
As for "abandoning it" that is absurd. Whatever form of kabalah existed was known by some and not by others. It was not utilized or cited in the entire Talmud. Do you realize that all of Judaism is based on Talmud's interpretation and application of Written Torah? And do you realize how massive a work the Talmud is and how it was put together literally over hundreds of years? And not one mention of kabalah by those sages who saw fit to preserve Judaic thought and practice for posterity in writing.
Whatever small circles were involved in initiating "kabalah" (probably not chazal) kept it secret probably because it was not sanctioned! It then evolved and grew over time until Moshe DeLeon wrote the Zohar and his heirs published it. At the point of publication it now became known to the wider Jewish world and those who rejected its ideas rejected it, while those who accepted its ideas embraced it. And that is why today you see some Jews arguing over this subject. More than that, they also argue even among those who "accept" zohar as non-heretical, over its proper role and level of authority in Jewish life. Even that is very unclear and often debated.
What sort of influence would Jews have received in Eastern Europe?
They had many sorts of influences, the strongest of which was an experience of the gentiles' visceral hatred that eventually culminated in the holocaust. I'm not really sure what you are asking, was this meant to be some kind of cryptic question? You'll have to be more clear.
For many generations the Jews had a degree of separation from the non-Jews in where they lived, what they did, what jobs they worked, etc. It's a complicated history I can't explain here in two lines.
If you think that kabalah became public knowledge in Eastern Europe, you are severely mistaken. It was in SPAIN, in the 1400's that it became popularized because Moshe Deleon wrote the zohar and his heirs published it. It spread in the Sephardic world but some did not accept its supposed authority. The chassidic movement is eons later.
The Torah seems pretty mystical to me. Also why were some books left out of the Tanach?
Did that make sense?
To answer your question: No, it did not make sense. Again, if you have a specific point to make, go ahead and make it. If you have a specific question, ask away. Asking a cryptic question where you are clearly trying to make some point with your question but since you are assuming your conclusion its obvious to you, while no one else really understands what you're getting at with the question, is not productive and not helpful.
The Torah seems pretty mystical to you. Ok, then. I don't understand what you're getting at.
And why were some books left out of the Tanach? Because the anshei knesset hagedola determined that they did not belong or were not on the same tier as other books which were included in the tanakkh when they canonized it.
These are straightforward answers, but it's clear to me you are trying to imply something. But I have no idea what.
If you pose your thought in a straight forward way, then we can subject it to proper scrutiny. Saying these cryptic one-liners doesn't help anyone.
