Author Topic: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach  (Read 12087 times)

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Offline edu

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בראשית רבה (וילנא) פרשת ויחי פרשה צח סימן יד

מר ר' לוי כתיב (שם /שופטים ט"ז/) ועל הגג כשלשת אלפים, אלו מה שהיו על שפת הגג אבל מה שהיו לאחוריהם ולאחורי אחוריהם אין בריה יודעת, ואת אמרת (שם /שופטים ט"ז/) וירדו אחיו וכל בית אביהו וישאו אותו ויעלו ויקברו אותו וגו' בקבר מנוח אביו, אלא יעקב אבינו בקש רחמים על הדבר, ויפול רוכבו אחור, יחזרו דברים לאחוריהם, לפי שהיה יעקב אבינו רואה אותו וסבור בו שהוא מלך המשיח, כיון שראה אותו שמת אמר אף זה מת, לישועתך קויתי ה',
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"Because Yaakov (Jacob) saw him and thought concerning him that he was the messianic king. When he saw that he had died he said, even this one had died, for your salvation I have hoped for, Hashem"
Two questions that need to be discussed. 1] Which quality or qualities in Shimshon led Yaakov to his initial assumption, that Shimshon was the messianic king? 2] Shimshon was from the tribe of Dan, not Yehuda (Judah). How could Yaakov ever have entertained the idea of Shimshon being Mashiach if he was not from the tribe of Yehuda?

Offline Zelhar

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Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense. Shimshon is full of character flaws, he is almost comical.

Offline muman613

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Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense. Shimshon is full of character flaws, he is almost comical.

All Jewish leaders have flaws. So too did David HaMelech have some character flaws (remember his lineage was questioned by his own father).... I don't think 'character flaws' prevents anyone from being Moshiach.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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http://www.arigoldwag.com/krentzman/tracing%20mashiach%20ben%20Yosef%20-%20Tanach.pdf

Shimshon

Shimshon also manifested strong qualities of Mashiach ben Yosef in his generation. This is hinted at in a few ways: Firstly, Hashem told Shimshon’s parents (ה 'יג שופטים) that he was to be: "מבטן הנער יהיה לקים-א נזיר", “a Nazir of G-d from the womb”. In describing one of the qualities of Yosef, and subsequently, Mashiach ben Yosef, the verse (כו 'מט בראשית) also calls him: "נזיר אחיו", “ a Nazir among his brothers” (see [קלז] 'ב התור קול).

Also the term: "נער", “youth”, used to describe Shimshon, is also a term used to describe those who manifest the qualities of Yosef and Mashiach ben Yosef
 .(קול התור ב' [צד] see)

The fact that Shimshon was from the tribe of Dan is also significant, for the Zohar (ב'ע קצד ג'ח) states that a descendant of Dan can be spiritually connected to the mission of Mashiach ben Yosef
 .(קול התור ב' [קנ] see)

Also, the fact that Shimshon chose to go about his mission of saving the Jewish people by acting in secrecy, among the Plishtim, manifested the quality of Mashiach ben Yosef, who also works secretly and in a indirect manner in bringing about the redemption of the Jewish people
(קול התור א' [יד] see)

Shimshon acting as Mashiach ben Yosef is also hinted at by Yaakov’s blessing to Dan, where after seeing with Ruach HaKodesh that Shimshon would be a savior to the Jewish people, he prayed: "ה קויתי לישועתך'", “For Your salvation do I hope. Hashem” (יח 'מט בראשית). This, in part, hints at the fact that Shimshon would act as Mashiach ben Yosef; for the term: "ישועה" is
used in reference to Mashiach ben Yosef throughout Tanach (see [עט] [ב] 'ב התור קול).

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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http://rabbikahane.wordpress.com/2010/08/26/what-makes-samson-such-a-hero/

Vayechi: What Makes Samson Such a Hero?


When Yaakov Avenu blesses Dan, the sages tell us that through “Ruach HaKodesh”, Yaakov saw Samson wreaking havoc upon the Philistines, and thought that he was the Messiah. Only after seeing Samson die did a disappointed Yaakov realize that Samson was not the Messiah, and thus he uttered the words in our parsha, “I waited for your salvation, Oh Lord”.

Even for those not so well-versed in the Bible, Samson has become a household name. He is the stereotype of the ‘mighty hero”. Is this characterization a correct one, or a misconception of the masses? What gives Samson his superstar status, making him easily the most popular and widely know Judge? If it is for his brute physical strength, the sages surprise us by telling us that Samson was lame! Why would they say such a thing if not to remove from our minds the image of a macho-muscle-man.

Perhaps one might want to say that Samson fulfilled the definition of “hero” (gibor, in Hebrew) according to “Pirke Avot”: “Who is a ‘gibor’? He who conquers his evil inclination”. Without delving too deep into Samson’s deeds and motives with women, one can safely say that he was not exactly a symbol of the “Tzadeek” who overcame his “Yaizer” (evil inclination). The sages tell us clearly: “Samson went after his eyes, and thus his eyes were gouged out by the Philistines.”

Must we then conclude that the popularity surrounding the figure of Samson today is due to the fact that somehow, his persona “caught on” more than other heroic figures in the Bible? Is Samson’s popularity amongst the masses simply a product of media-hype? After all, Devora, Yiftach, Gideon and every other Judge certainly killed a lot more of the enemy than Samson did. Killing a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of an ass is quite an accomplishment, but it hardly rates with the electrifying and decisive victories of the other Judges that ruled before him. In fact, when the Bible tells us that the “dead that he slew in his death were more than he slew in his life” – it is not meant as a compliment, but rather as a commentary that Samson did not put up the “big numbers” like the other Judges did.

And so again, is Samson, the darling of the masses, somehow overrated? Let us not jump to hasty conclusions! After all, we opened this article by saying that Yaakov Avenu himself saw Samson’s potential to be the Messiah. In addition, in comparison to all the other Judges mentioned in the Book of Judges, Samson has by far the most space allotted to him. This brings us to another difficult question. During his lifetime, Samson was scorned by his own people to such an extent that we find no parallel to it with any other Judge. At one point, fellow Jews even turn him over to the Philistines. Since his support among the people is virtually non-existent, he is reduced to carrying out partisan-style attacks against the enemy instead of leading an army against them. Why should the Bible dedicate so many chapters and stories to a Judge who had absolutely no supporting cast? Why is HE a candidate for Messiah?

Despite all the above questions and doubts, it is clear that Samson isindeed someone very special. Even before his birth, an angel of G-d came to his parents and spoke of the birth of this extraordinary son, “for a Nazarite to G-d shall the boy be…and he will begin to save Israel from the hand of the Philistines.”

The answer to the riddle of Samson’s greatness lies in the supposed weakness of his not enjoying the support of his people. Even though he was betrayed by his own people, he continued to love them and fight on their behalf. His internal strength and his willingness to stand alone and fight “Chillul Hashem” (the desecration of G-d’s Name) are why he is described as “beginning to save Israel”. In the same way that Moses never turned his back on the Jewish People, despite their endless accusations against him, Samson remained firm in his faith and “Ahavat Yisrael”. At the same time, the people disparaged him as irresponsible and violent, a hot-blooded lunatic who “makes things worse” by fermenting hatred against the Jews on the part of the Philistines. Samson paid no heed to them. For this he would eventually be recognized as the great leader he was.

And while it is true that he sinned, Samson physically sacrificed himself for the Jewish People. Even in his last moments where he stood weakened, blinded, and bound – what grieved him was not his personal suffering, but rather the tremendous desecration of G-d’s Name that this was causing. When Yaakov saw all this; placing G-d’s Honor over his own, putting his people’s pain before his own – he understood that such a man is worthy of being the Messiah.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Zelhar

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All Jewish leaders have flaws. So too did David HaMelech have some character flaws (remember his lineage was questioned by his own father).... I don't think 'character flaws' prevents anyone from being Moshiach.
Shimshon had allot of them, by todays terms he was had a self destructive personality, lack of self control and addiction problems.

Offline muman613

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It is impossible to judge, Zelhar, the tzadikim of the Tanach as we are not even close to the level they were on.

Even when calling their misdeeds 'sins' the sages made sure to clarify that their weaknesses were not true sins, but appeared to be sins to those examining their deeds.

In the case of Shimson the Oral tradition (the Talmud) explains that Shimson DID NOT sin with Delilah....

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http://www.dafyomi.co.il/sotah/insites/so-dt-009.htm

1) THE SIN OF SHIMSHON
QUESTION: The Mishnah relates that Shimshon sinned with his eyes when he was lured by the beauty of a foreign woman and married her. How is it possible that a Tzadik like Shimshon, who was the leading Shofet (judge) of Yisrael of his time and who "judged the people of Yisrael like their Father in heaven [judges them]" (10a), could have committed such a sin?

ANSWER: The RAMBAM (Hilchos Isurei Bi'ah 13:14-16) asks this question, and he explains that Shimshon did not sin when he married the foreign woman because he converted her before he married her. Why, then, did his parents protest the marriage, and why does the Mishnah chastise him?

The Rambam explains that the conversion was not performed by a properly ordained Beis Din. A proper Beis Din would not have converted her without first investigating whether there were ulterior motives for the conversion. Shimshon, however, converted the women in the presence of a Beis Din Shel Hedyotos (a Beis Din of uneducated judges), and the women converted only in order to marry him. Therefore, they remained prohibited to him after their conversion. The Rambam adds that their true, ulterior motives became clear later. Since they never genuinely accepted the Mitzvos, their conversion was not considered valid.

Why did Shimshon attempt to convert these women as acceptable Gerim when their conversion was dubious? The commentators (see KEREN ORAH) explain that in order to bring the world to its final state of Tikun, the nations of the world must all come to the recognition of the role of the Jewish people, and the Jewish people's closeness to Hash-m, and they must attempt to humble and attach themselves to the Jewish people. Shimshon -- who judged the Jewish people "k'Echad" (Bereishis 49:16), like Hash-m Who is One, as the Gemara says, and who judged them in the manner of David ha'Melech (as Rashi there writes) -- had the potential to bring about the final Ge'ulah. In order to accomplish this, however, Shimshon knew that he would have to subjugate the nations to Klal Yisrael, and that is what he attempted to do when he took these wives from foreign nations. David ha'Melech had a similar intent when he married women ("Eshes Yefas To'ar") taken during the wars he fought (see Sanhedrin 21b). This was also the intention of Shlomo ha'Melech when he married the daughter of Pharaoh and the other foreign wives whom he converted.

Although Mashi'ach will come from the tribe of Yehudah and from the House of David (as Yakov Avinu alluded to in his blessing to Yehudah), the tribe of Dan always has a part in the Tikun together with Yehudah, and thus Shimshon, from the tribe of Dan, sought to take part in bringing the Mashi'ach. This joint effort is evident in the construction of the Mishkan, which was supervised by Betzalel (from Yehudah) together with Ohali'av (from Dan). Similarly, the Beis ha'Mikdash was built by Shlomo ha'Melech (from Yehudah) with Chiram (maternally from Dan; see Divrei ha'Yamim II 2:13, and Radak to Melachim I 7:14).

This is also implied by the fact that both Yehudah (in Yakov's blessing) and Dan (in Moshe's blessing) are compared to "Gur Aryeh," a lion. The Beis ha'Mikdash (Midos 4:7) and Hashra'as ha'Shechinah in general (Hoshea 11:10; Amos 3:8) are compared to the power of a lion. (The Yetzer ha'Ra of Avodah Zarah that directly opposes the worship of Hash-m in the Beis ha'Mikdash is also represented by a lion; see Sanhedrin 64a. This may be alluded to by Shimshon's act of tearing apart a lion with his hands, after which a beehive filled with sweet honey formed in its carcass. Shimshon sought to destroy the Avodah Zarah in the nation and to replace it with the worship of Hash-m.)

The Midrash (Shemos Rabah 40; Tanchuma, Ki Tisa 13) teaches that Yehudah is the most spiritually uplifted of the tribes while Dan is the least. To build the Beis ha'Mikdash the two must work together, in order to include all of the elements of the Jewish people. (M. KORNFELD)
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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It is impossible to judge, Zelhar, the tzadikim of the Tanach as we are not even close to the level they were on.

Even when  their misdeeds 'sins' the sages made sure to clarify that their weaknesses were not true sins, but appeared to be sins to those examining their deeds.

In the case of Shimson the Oral tradition (the Talmud) explains that Shimson DID NOT sin with Delilah....
Not to change the subject, but the Torah also says Chiram was the son of the tribe of Naphtali...

Does anyone discuss this...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Not to change the subject, but the Torah also says Chiram was the son of the tribe of Naphtali...

Does anyone discuss this...

 I don't know who Chiram was, but I don't understand what this has to do with anything in this discussion? Did I miss something?


 Ahh, I get it now you were talking about this

"Similarly, the Beis ha'Mikdash was built by Shlomo ha'Melech (from Yehudah) with Chiram (maternally from Dan; see Divrei ha'Yamim II 2:13, and Radak to Melachim I 7:14)."


 From this quote it says that he was MATERNALLY from Dan. Soo I am guessing if you have your sources correct then its not a contradiction and it would be maternally from Dan and paternally from Naftali. (If the sources are correct).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Ephraim, Tribes membership goes according to the father...

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http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/762109/jewish/Raise-Your-Hand-If-Youre-A-Kohen.htm
Jewish men and women are Jewish because their mothers are Jewish. Their tribal affiliation, however, such as being a kohen or a Levi, comes from their fathers. When a woman marries, she takes on the tribal affiliation of her husband (Kohen, Levi or Israel) regardless of the status of her father. The affiliation that the woman received from her father goes into abeyance.

It is for this reason we can exclude a certain someone from being 'Moshiach' because he had no 'human father'...


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Sveta

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2014, 01:25:16 AM »
I am confused. It says that he converted Delilah before marrying her. But today, we usually do not accept a woman who converts to get married. Was this the case here? Was Delilah a sincere convert?

Offline muman613

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2014, 01:52:03 AM »
I am confused. It says that he converted Delilah before marrying her. But today, we usually do not accept a woman who converts to get married. Was this the case here? Was Delilah a sincere convert?

Shalom IsraeliHeart,

I am not an expert in this aspect so I will repost something on the topic I found which may explain this...

http://www.torah.org/learning/haftorah/naso.html

Quote
Parshas Naso
Shoftim 13:2

by Rabbi Dovid Siegel

This week's haftorah shares with us an incredible perspective on sanctity and self control. The focus of the haftorah is the heavenly message sent to the pious Manoach and his wife informing them of her miraculous conception of a special son, Shimshon. Manoach's wife, a righteous woman who was barren for many years was suddenly informed by an angel that she would bear a child. She was also given specific instructions during pregnancy restricting her from all wine and wine-related products. She was informed that her son would be dedicated to Hashem from the day he was born and could never shave off his hair. The angel also stated that Hashem would bring much salvation to the Jewish people through this precious boy.

This is the first chapter in the life of the famous Jewish leader, Shimshon. However, in the subsequent chapters of his life we discover the life's trials of the most perplexing leader in all of Jewish history. On the one hand, Shimshon was a powerful and effective judge who maintained the highest ethical standard. In fact, our Chazal (Yerushalmi Rosh Hashana2:8) place Shimshon amongst the greatest of all Jewish judges paralleling him, in some ways, to Moshe Rabbeinu himself. Shimshon also merited that the Divine Presence of Hashem preceded him to secure his every step with success. And it was solely in Shimshon's merit that Hashem constantly protected the Jewish nation (see Sota 9b, 10a). Yet, at the same time we discover a man succumbing to physical passions being constantly enticed by Philistine women. Eventually Shimshon fell prey to the persuasion of his Philistine wife Delila and forfeited all his sanctity and greatness. How can this glorious, yet so tragic life be understood and explained and what can be learned from this perplexing story? (See Derech Bina to Shoftim by Rabbi Avrohom Shoshana)

We begin with the words of the Midrash (Bamidbar Rabba 10:5) in explanation of Shimshon's unique experience of Nezirus (restriction from wine). In general, one accepts the abstentions of a Nazir for a period of a month or two but never for an entire lifetime. This week's parsha reveals that the purpose for the short restrictive period of Nazirus was to serve as a model lesson for life. Typically, the Nazir briefly abstained from certain mundane activities to gain control over his physical passions and cravings. This was obviously not the case for Shimshon who was obligated in Nezirus since his birth. The above Midrash clarifies this matter and states, "Hashem, knowing that Shimshon's nature would be to stray after his eyes, restricted him from wine which leads to immorality." Chazal continue, "And if Shimshon albeit a Nazir did stray after his eyes one could only imagine what would have happened without the restriction of wine." Our Chazal share with us an important insight into the life of Shimshon. Apparently, his nature and consequent role in life revolved around an attraction to women and it was intended for the Nezirus restriction to hold him back from sin.

To put this into perspective we refer to the words of the Radak (Shoftim13:4) which explain the setting of Shimshon's times. Radak explains that the Jewish people's devotion to Hashem had severely fallen during those times. Because of this they did not merit total salvation by Hashem and remained under Philistine rule throughout this entire era. However, the Philistines deserved to be revenged for their harsh rule over the Jews and for this reason Hashem sent Shimshon to the scene. The Scriptures indicate (see Shoftim 14:4) that it was the will of Hashem that Shimshon mingle with the Philistines to cause them pain and strife from within their very own camp. It can be understood that for this reason Hashem actually sanctioned, in principle, Shimshon's marriage to Philistine women, given their conversion to Judaism. Although they did actually convert (see Radak adloc. and Rambam Isurai Beiah 14:14) the potential did exist for Shimshon to be influenced by their foreign ideals and allegiances of their past.

In essence, Hashem provided Shimshon with the appropriate nature for his role and he was naturally attracted to the Philistine women he encountered. This allowed Shimshon to be regarded as one of the Philistines and set the stage for a perfect inside job. The Radak explains that Shimshon's motive of bonding with Philistine Jewish converts to secretly attack the Philistine nation was a proper motive. However, this powerful drive to marry Philistine women served as a double-edged sword. And when Shimshon added to his pure motive small degrees of attraction to beauty his actions were disqualified. Granted that the overwhelming percentage of his motivation was proper and pure, nonetheless a subtle attraction to Philistine women's beauty did accompany his thoughts. Eventually this soft physical drive overtook Shimshon, and after succumbing to his wife's seduction, lost his pure motives and forfeited all of his sanctity and greatness.

We now appreciate Shimshon's lifelong abstention period of Nezirus and its projected impact on his personal conduct. This perpetual state was intended to serve as an anchor for Shimshon to control and subdue his physical urges and steer him away from immorality. The comprehensive picture drawn from our haftorah is the following. Shimshon was ordained to live a life of sanctity from the moment of conception until the end of his life. His parents carefully protected him from all impurities and raised him in a perfect atmosphere of sanctity. This childhood groomed him to be a perfect candidate for the constant manifestation of the Divine Presence itself. However, as we painfully discover none of the above guarantees one from foreign immoral influences. And when, alongside the purest of motives, one includes physical drives and passions the result can be devastating. Even the pure Shimshon was then prone to plunging deeply into immorality and open to forfeiting all that life had in store for him. From this we learn the importance of pure motives and that any degree of intended personal gratification can undo all the good we seek to accomplish.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2014, 01:59:09 AM »
Not exactly On Topic but this Gemara from Sotah 9 explains some things...

http://www.dafyomi.co.il/sotah/points/so-ps-009.htm

1) MEASURE FOR MEASURE (cont.)
(a)   She put mascara on her eyes. Therefore, her eyes bulge out;
(b)   She braided her hair. Therefore, the Kohen unbraids her hair;
(c)   With her finger, she beckoned for him to come. Therefore, her fingernails fall off;
(d)   She girded herself with a ribbon. Therefore, the Kohen ties a Mitzri rope above her breasts;
(e)   She stuck out her thigh for him. Therefore, her thigh falls off;
(f)   She supported him on her stomach. Therefore, her stomach swells;
(g)   She fed him kingly delights. Therefore, her Korban is (barley, which is normally) animal food;
(h)   She gave him good wine to drink in elegant Kelim. Therefore, the Kohen gives her bitter water to drink in a lowly earthenware Kli;
(i)   She acted covertly. Therefore "He (Hash-m) who dwells hidden" turned His attention to punish her;
1.   "The eye of a Bo'el guards the night, saying, no eye will see me."
2.   Also, she acted covertly, therefore Hash-m publicized about her - "one who conceals his hateful deeds in darkness, his evil is revealed in the Tzibur."
2) PUNISHMENT OF THE NATIONS
(a)   Question: Since "one by one makes a (big) sum" shows that every Perutah joins to make a big liability, why do we need "Kol Se'on So'en b'Ra'ash"?
(b)   Answer: This teaches that Hash-m punishes Midah k'Neged Midah.
(c)   Question: If so, why do we need "b'Sase'ah You send discipline"?
(d)   Answer: This teaches like Rav Chinena:
1.   Version #1 (Rav Chinena bar Papa): Hash-m does not punish a nation until it is worthy to be sent (for destruction) - "b'Sase'ah You send discipline."
(e)   Question: Rava taught that the three cups (in the wine-steward's dream) of punishment of Mitzrayim allude to one in Moshe's era, one in Pharaoh-Necho's era (when Nevuchadnetzar conquered Mitzrayim), and one that they will drink with the other nations.
1.   Suggestion: Perhaps the original Mitzriyim are gone, and new inhabitants of Mitzrayim suffer the latter two cups!
2.   Rejection (Beraisa - R. Yehudah): Minyamin, the Mitzri covert was my colleague, a Talmid of R. Akiva. He said 'I am a first generation Mitzri (convert). I married a first generation Mitzris. I will marry my son to a second generation Mitzris, so that my grandchildren will be permitted to marry Yisre'elim.' (I.e. there were still real Mitzriyim long after Moshe's era!)
(f)   Correction: Rather, R. Chinena taught that Hash-m does not punish a king until he is sent - "b'Sase'ah You send discipline."
(g)   Version #2 (Ameimar): R. Chinena expounded "I, Hash-m, did not repeat, and You, Bnei Yakov, I did not finish" - I did not strike a nation twice, and I did not finish off Bnei Yakov.
1.   "I will finish My arrows on them" - My arrows will finish, and they (Bnei Yisrael) will not be finished.
(h)   (Rav Hamnuna): Hash-m does not mete out punishment due to a person until his measure (of sin) is complete - "When his desire is filled, it will be harsh for him."
(i)   (R. Chinena bar Papa): "Tzadikim, exult (in song) in Hash-m; praise is Na'avah (fitting) for the straight" - we read this like Naveh Sehilah (they will praise Him about the dwellings they built);
1.   This refers to Moshe and David. Their enemies did not rule over (benefit from) the edifices of Moshe and David.
2.   David prepared the Beis ha'Mikdash. (When Bavel conquered, "its gates sank in the ground."
3.   Moshe erected the Mishkan. When the first Mikdash was built, the Mishkan was hidden, its planks, hooks, interior beams, pillars and sockets.
4.   Question: Where were they hidden?
5.   Answer (Rav Chisda): They were hidden under the tunnels of the Mikdash.
3) SEEKING WHAT IS FORBIDDEN
(a)   (Beraisa): A Sotah put her eyes on what was not fitting for her. She did not get what she wanted, and she lost what she had;
1.   Anyone who seeks what is not fitting for him does not get what he wants, and loses what he had.
9b----------------------------------------9b

(b)   The serpent put its eyes on what was not fitting for it (Chavah). It did not get what it wanted, and it lost what it had;
1.   Hash-m intended that it would be king over the animals. Now, it is cursed more than all the animals;
2.   Hash-m intended that it would walk erect. Now, it goes on its belly;
3.   Hash-m intended that it would eat human food. Now, it eats soil;
4.   It intended to kill Adam and marry Chavah. Now, Hash-m put enmity between it and Chavah, and between its descendants and hers.
(c)   We also find that each of the following did not get what he wanted, and lost what he had - Kayin, Korach, Bilam, Doeg, Achitofel, Gechazi, Avshalom, Adoniyahu, Uziyahu, and Haman.
(d)   (Mishnah): She started to sin with her thigh...
(e)   Question: What is the source that her thigh is stricken first?
(f)   Answer: "Hash-m will make your thigh fall and your stomach swell."
(g)   Contradiction: It also says "her stomach will swell and her thigh will fall"!
(h)   Answer (Abaye): The thigh is cursed first. The limbs are stricken according to the order in which the water enters her, the stomach before the thigh.
(i)   Contradiction: Also regarding the curse it says "to make the stomach swell and the thigh fall"!
(j)   Answer: That is not the curse. Rather, the Kohen tells her in what order her limbs will be stricken, lest people say that the water did not kill her (if she did not die the way the Torah says).
4) MIDAH K'NEGED MIDAH
(a)   (Mishnah): Shimshon went after his eyes, therefore, Pelishtim gouged out his eyes;
(b)   Avshalom was haughty about his hair, therefore he was hung by his hair;
1.   Because he had Bi'ah with 10 concubines of his father, 10 spears were cast into him;
2.   Because he deceived three hearts, i.e. his father's, Beis Din's, and Yisrael's, three staves were cast into his heart.
(c)   Hash-m also rewards measure for measure.
1.   Miryam waited a short time for Moshe (when he was put in the river). Therefore, all of Yisrael waited seven days for her (until her Tzara'as was cured).
2.   Yosef merited to bury his father, and he was the greatest of his brothers. He merited that Moshe engaged in his burial!
3.   Moshe merited to take Yosef's bones, and he was the greatest in Yisrael. He merited to be buried by Hash-m alone!
i.   Hash-m engages in the burial of all Tzadikim - "your righteousness will go before you, the honor of Hash-m will gather you."
(d)   (Gemara - Beraisa): Shimshon rebelled with his eyes - "take her (the Pelishti woman) for me, for she is straight in my eyes." Therefore, Pelishtim gouged out his eyes;
(e)   Question: "It was from Hash-m" (that he desired her)!
(f)   Answer: He chose the one who was nice in his eyes. (Maharsha - Hash-m led him in the path that he desired.)
(g)   (Beraisa - Rebbi): The beginning of Shimshon's downfall was in Azah, therefore he was stricken in Azah.
(h)   Question: He first took a Pelishti wife in Timnah!
(i)   Answer: The beginning of his downfall was in Azah. (Rashi - there, he had Bi'as Znus; Maharsha - his wife in Timnah converted.)
5) SHIMSHON
(a)   (Beraisa - Rebbi): Delilah was fit to be called by her name. She Dildelah (uprooted) his strength, his heart, and his deeds.
1.   She uprooted his strength - "his strength left him."
2.   She uprooted his heart - "she saw that he had told her all his heart."
3.   She uprooted his deeds, for the Divine Presence left him - "he did not know that Hash-m had abandoned him."
(b)   Question: How did she know that he had told her all his heart?
(c)   Answer #1 (R. Chanin): Truth is recognizable.
(d)   Answer #2 (Abaye): Shimshon said "I am a Nazir Elokim" - she knew that a Tzadik would not say Hash-m's name in vain.
(e)   Question: "She pained him with her words every day, va'Te'altzehu" - what does this mean?
(f)   Answer (R. Yitzchak): She would separate from him during the marital act (at the moment when his desire was greatest).
(g)   Question #1: (The angel told Mano'ach's wife) "... do not eat anything Tamei" - what is this?
(h)   Question #2: Until now, did she eat Tamei food?
(i)   Answer to both questions (R. Yitzchak): He forbade her to eat things forbidden to a Nazir.
(j)   (R. Yitzchak): "Hash-m split the gum in the jaw" (and water came out for Shimshon to drink) - because Shimshon desired something Tamei (Pelishti women), Hash-m made his life dependent on something Tamei (a donkey).
(k)   (R. Chama b'Rebbi Chanina): "Va'Techal (began) the spirit of Hash-m" - Chalsah (took effect) the prophecy of Yakov "Dan (Shimshon's Shevet) will be a serpent on the road."
(l)   (R. Yitzchak): "Lifa'amo (to arouse him) in the camp of Dan" - the Divine Presence went before him like a clapper of a Pa'amon (bell);
1.   It says here "Lifa'amo", and it says about the Kohen Gadol's robe "Pa'amon v'Rimon."
(m)   (Rav Asi): "Between Tzor'ah and "Eshta'ol" - these are two great mountains. Shimshon uprooted them and ground them on each other.
(n)   (R. Chama b'Rebbi Chanina): "He Yachel (began) to save Yisrael" - the oath of Avimelech, "if you will lie to my child or grandchild", was Huchal (the Pelishtim profaned it).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2014, 02:10:13 AM »
"Samson & Delilah" is what the general public know of the story of Shimson...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2014, 04:13:25 AM »
I don't think there was a long arduous conversion process back then, especially for women, that came much later.

Offline edu

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2014, 05:14:44 AM »
I think you can add to the words of Rabbi Kahane.
1] Shimshon used his special G-d given abilities as well as his intellect to devise a pragmatic plan to conquer the land of Israel without relying on the nation as a whole to wake up and do the job.
When one exerts himself to obliterate evil Gentiles from the land of Israel and is successful, one makes G-d, king forever and ever and thus measure for measure, "deserves" also to be an earthly king.
How do I know that obliterating the evil Gentiles from the land of Israel makes G-d, king forever and ever.
Because it says in Tehillim (Psalms) 10:16 and also repeated in our daily prayers, "Hashem is king forever and ever, Gentiles have perished from his land". And see Rashi's commentary there, that G-d becoming king is the result of Gentiles perishing from the land.
2] In the end Shimshon chose a target that did not just not have a military value, but rather also had tremendous religious value. He knocked down the Temple of Idolatry, that represented the ideology and morality of the enemy, thus turning his victory as a direct victory of G-d over the idols. This was a tremendous Kiddush Hashem.

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2014, 10:34:50 AM »
Edu- please link it.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline edu

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2014, 03:05:25 PM »
Tag-MehirTzedek:
Quote
Edu- please link it.
I assume you mean the Rabbi Kahane commentary that you quoted above
http://rabbikahane.wordpress.com/2010/08/26/what-makes-samson-such-a-hero/

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2014, 03:35:11 PM »
Tag-MehirTzedek:I assume you mean the Rabbi Kahane commentary that you quoted above
http://rabbikahane.wordpress.com/2010/08/26/what-makes-samson-such-a-hero/

No, I linked my own pot. I am talking about what you quoted.

Ok, I see its your own words.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline edu

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2014, 03:59:21 PM »
Quote
2] Shimshon was from the tribe of Dan, not Yehuda (Judah). How could Yaakov ever have entertained the idea of Shimshon being Mashiach if he was not from the tribe of Yehuda?
Ramban to Breishit/Genesis 49:10 states that it seems from the words of the prophet, that if Shaul (Saul) had not sinned his kingdom would last forever, even though he was not from the tribe of Yehuda (Judah). How could this be given the verse in Breishit/Genesis 49:10 ?
He answers. Either Shaul's kingdom would have continually ruled the tribes descended from Rachel, while Yehuda the rest of the tribes.
Or there would be a situation of King and vice-King.
Perhaps these ideas could also be used to explain how Shimshon had the potential to be the Messianic King.

Offline muman613

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2014, 04:36:05 PM »
All I have seen indicates he could have been Moshiach Ben Yosef, not Moshiach Ben David...

edu, are you suggesting he could have been Moshiach Ben David?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2014, 04:38:09 PM »
Webshas has indexed the following tractates of the Talmud concerning Shimson..

http://www.webshas.org/torah/bichtav/tanach/shoftim.htm

Samson [Shimshon], and his Family

Jacob's prophecy about Samson, in his blessing to Samson's ancestor, Dan: Sotah 9b
Samson was also known as "Bedan", because he came from the tribe of Dan: Rosh HaShanah 25a
Criticism of Manoach for walking behind his wife, which is considered immodest: Eruvin 18b
Manoach as an unlearned layperson: Eruvin 18b
Manoach following his wife's advice: Eruvin 18b
The angel's warning that Samson's mother should not consume items which a Nazir may not consume, while she was pregnant: Sotah 9b
Gideon, Yiftach and Samson are known as the 3 "world lightweights," but their judicial power for their generation is compared to that of Moshe, Aharon and Samuel, the "world heavyweights": Rosh HaShanah 25a-b
Samson's name was like a description of Gd [Shemesh], because he defended the Jewish people as Gd does: Sotah 10a
Samson judged the nation "in the manner of Gd": Sotah 10a
Gd used to escort Samson on his way: Sotah 9b
Gd blessed Samson in his fertility: Sotah 10a
The breadth of Samson's shoulders: Sotah 10a
The breadth of the gates of Azah, which Samson uprooted: Sotah 10a
Samson was so strong that he uprooted the mountains Tzarah and Eshtaol, and ground them together: Sotah 9b
Samson's strength was modeled on the Divine in that it surpassed the physical norm, and this was the area in which he ultimately was hurt: Sotah 10a
Samson began to save the Jews from the Philistines; in his time Avimelech's descendants broke his oath to Abraham that his descendants wouldn't harm the Jews. Therefore, Samson used foxes in attacking them; the fox is wily in its retreat, too: Sotah 9b-10a
Samson was lame in both legs: Sotah 10a
Samson was disgraced in Timnah, and so he is described as descending to Timnah; Yehudah was elevated in Timnah, and so he is described as ascending to Timnah. Alternatively, there are topographical explanations for the descriptions: Sotah 10a
Samson followed his eyes, and so he was blinded: Sotah 9b [2x]
Gd wanted Samson to become enamored of Delilah, but Samson did so on his own, and so he was punished: Sotah 9b
Samson began to err in Azah, and so this was where he was punished: Sotah 9b
Had Samson's wife's name not been Delilah, it would have been appropriate to call her this, as she uprooted [Dildilah] his heart, his strength and his deeds, distancing him from Gd: Sotah 9b
Delilah knew Samson was telling her the truth because one can always recognize sincerity, or because he invoked Gd's Name: Sotah 9b
One of Delilah's tactics to get to Samson was to separate from him at the climactic moment of sexual relations: Sotah 9b
Samson had to depend on drinking from a donkey's jawbone to survive, because he had lusted for impurity, Delilah: Sotah 9b
The Philistines brought Samson their wives to impregnate, while he was in prison: Sotah 10a
Samson prayed that Gd help him against the Philistines as a reward for the fact that in twenty years of judging Israel, Samson had never requested the smallest favor from anyone: Sotah 10a
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2014, 04:52:15 PM »
Here is some more insight into this issue:



http://kby.org/english/torat-yavneh/view.asp?id=3712
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Chazal also teach about the future encounter of the two tribes (Yalkut Shimoni 247:160):

"A lion cub is Yehuda," this is Mashiach ben David, who is descended from two tribes. His father is from Yehuda and his mother is from Dan, and they both are called a lion as it says: "A lion cub is Yehuda" and "Dan is a lion cub."

The father provides the spiritual force and the mother the material force. Dan symbolizes the material force and Yehuda the spiritual. When Yaakov foresaw Shimshon he thought he was the Mashiach, because he was descended from both Dan and Yehuda. However, when he saw him captured, Yaakov said: "For Your salvation do I long, O Hashem!" (Bereishit 49:18) This is because the order was reversed with Shimshon - his father was from Dan and his mother came from Yehuda, which made the material force dominant and prevented him from being the Mashiach. The Mashiach can only be someone whose spiritual side comes from the tribe of Yehuda and material side comes from the tribe of Dan, like Mashiach ben David.

Perhaps this is the meaning behind the lions that appear on the Aron Kodesh in synagogues. "A lion cub is Yehuda" and "Dan is a lion cub." This comes to teach that whoever is attached to holiness, and whoever builds the place of holiness, receives the power of the lion.

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You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline edu

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Re: Shimshon (Samson) According to the Midrash barely missed becoming Mashiach
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2014, 01:39:20 AM »
Quote from muman613
Quote
All I have seen indicates he could have been Moshiach Ben Yosef, not Moshiach Ben David...

edu, are you suggesting he could have been Moshiach Ben David?
Although there are other viewpoints of the Midrashim that seem to have set the role of the Messianic King being from Yehuda at the earliest point of Jewish history, the view in the Midrash that I quoted above seems to take the view that before the time of David (Shimshon was before the time of David), the tasks of the Moshiach and the extent and time of his authority were much more fluid and that potentially Jewish history could have developed somewhat differently if the Biblical leaders that came before David had reached a higher spiritual level than the level they actually achieved.
If you need another precedent for this idea, that some of the important leadership roles could have potentially been different, I point you to Rashi who says that if Moshe had immediately accepted the job to be the agent of G-d to save Israel (at the burning bush) he and his descendants would have been the Cohanim and his brother and his brother's descendants would be just have Levi status. However, as a punishment for Moshe having delayed accepting the task, the status of Cohanim was given over to Aharon (Aaron) and his sons, while Moshe and his sons took on Levi status.