Author Topic: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?  (Read 13101 times)

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Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2014, 11:16:16 PM »
SOROS!

 I don't know Soros, but he is a rich guy.  I'm sure very Capitalistic with socially leftist. Loving to make and have money though and not wanting to "share it all".
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2014, 11:17:40 PM »
Soros is the king of the kapos brah.

Ephy, there are plenty of other sources showing antisemitism in the John Birch society of the time.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2014, 12:56:14 AM »
Tag,

Weren't you aware that in the early 1900s there was a large Jewish communist movement in America?

This is one reason the Jews were subject to antisemitism from the Fords and the Disneys of this country... I don't know the specifics but it was once mentioned that in my family we had a communist. We did not talk much about it...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2014, 01:03:40 AM »
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/history/Modern_History/1914-1948/American_Jewry_Between_the_Wars/Radical_Politics.shtml

Jews in Radical Politics
America's Communist movement owed a lot to Jewish support.
By Howard Sachar

The Depression accelerated a process of radicalization that had begun in the immediate aftermath of the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917.

In the early post-revolutionary years, a left wing sprang up with the American Socialist party, favoring affiliation with the Comintern [the international Communist movement]. When the radicals were defeated at the Socialist convention in 1919, they bolted and attached themselves to the Communists.

Among Jews, this element was always a minority, even within the extensive Jewish Socialist movement. But they were a hair-shirt minority. It happened that the early postwar immigration of East European Jews included many veterans of the Bolshevik Revolution and the Russian civil wars.

In the early 1920s, it was these militant newcomers who dramatically augmented the radicals' leadership. Their first and principal target was the large reservoir of Jews still laboring in the garment industry. Among the needle workers, the old flaming Socialist idealism had been fading steadily during the 1920s. At the same time, unwilling to risk union treasuries or their own salaries, officials of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union and the Amalgamated Clothing Workers had become perfunctory in their negotiations' with management. Their flaccidity in turn proved raw meat for the Communists. Dogmatic and fiery, the latter now hurled themselves into the effort to capture the ILGWU's and Amalgamated's central offices and committees....

Jewish Leadership

Yet, if the Communists evoked little support from American Jewry at large, the party leadership continued to include a disproportionate number of Jews. Among these were Jay Lovestone, Benjamin Gitlow, William Weinstone, Bertram D. Wolfe, and Israel Amster. Well before the Depression, too, Jews contributed a significant share of the Communist party's votes (although, again, this represented a distinct minority of all Jewish ballots cast). In the presidential elections of 1924 and 1928, about one-quarter of the 50,000 votes cast on both occasions for William Z. Foster, the Communist party's nominee, came from New York, and almost certainly most were cast by Jews.

In 1925, the 22,000 circulation of Freiheit, the journal of the Jewish Socialist (Communist) Federation, actually exceeded the Daily Worker's 17,000. The tight Jewish nucleus re­mained in place throughout the 1920s, despite the party's relentless opposition both to Judaism and to Zionism as "reactionary" influences. It was this group, too, that saw its best opportunity following the Wall Street crash.

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You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2014, 08:59:42 AM »
I have a Jewish friend who is in JBS and he says that they are not antisemtic today... Also their website vehemently claims that it will not stand any antisemitism or racism...

What's that have to do with the 1960's?  Nothing.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2014, 09:03:24 AM »
Just as likely is that FBI got to know the inner working and thinking of Rabbi Kahane..   

This makes no sense.

They paid him to infiltrate the group so that they could get information on it and monitor its activities.   It is highly likely that they trained him for that job giving him tips and protocols that the FBI recommends for infiltrators.  They may have even provided him with equipment for such a job too.   He undoubtedly learned the FBI's infiltration techniques and some of how they operate while also making contacts and friends within the FBI.    Why is that negative?     

In addition, due to his experience in this job, he could probably smell a rat/troll/infiltrator a mile away.

That you would assume the FBI somehow anticipated what groups the Rabbi would form and what activities he would do later on makes no sense to me except that you are trying to find something negative about this story.    If they *really understood Rabbi Kahane, then the FBI would not have been investigating him for years later when he ran JDL.


Quote
It just is an odd story in light of the entire Kahane assassination and the WTC bombing in 1993...

Please elaborate, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2014, 09:04:16 AM »
This was coming from leftists, left wing Jews (that supported Russian Communism), and Christian's that disagreed with anything other than their beliefs! And a Government that was dabbling in Communism...

Again, there are many basic things that the left and right agree on.  The fact that the left says something doesn't make it automatically wrong!

Offline drlmg

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2014, 09:17:35 AM »
drmg, I am not interested in the merit or non-merit of the JBS... I am interested in the mindset of the Rabbi at the time and what he was trying to accomplish by doing some of these apparently questionable things... I am sure there is a rational reason and I hope to learn it...

The wikipedia page contains this information about this story...

Sorry, I did not purposely try to change the subject... I was just wondering what my initial thought should be when / if I hear from them in the future. Basically can their ideas and views be trusted.

Offline muman613

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2014, 12:54:00 PM »
drmg,

No problem... It is a good question.. As I said my initial impression was that JBS was antisemitic, but as I read more it appears that this may just have been accusations made by the left (and ADL which has traditionally been a leftist organization).

KWRBT,

What you are saying is just speculation. I was hoping to have an answer from someone who has actual experience with the situation. I am not trying to say anyone is speaking negative of the Rabbi, and as I said in many of my messages my Rabbi is very supportive of me and my Kahanist leanings. I am trying to come up with a good explanation of why it was in the best interest of Rabbi Kahane and JDL to infiltrate this organization.

In the playboy interview the Rabbi did not indicate that the issue was antisemitism but rather communism. I respect your opinion of what happened here, but I think I will have to ask Chaim on the AskJTF show for any more inside information...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2014, 04:02:46 PM »
It is well known that they were.  Just because the left said it doesn't make it automatically untrue.  The left today also says al qaeda is bad and the right agrees.  Or do you say al qaeda must be good since the left is against them?  Didn't think so.
And then the left makes all kinds of excuses for al-Qaeda.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2014, 04:24:53 PM »
Tag,

Weren't you aware that in the early 1900s there was a large Jewish communist movement in America?

This is one reason the Jews were subject to antisemitism from the Fords and the Disneys of this country... I don't know the specifics but it was once mentioned that in my family we had a communist. We did not talk much about it...
This was a BS excuse on their part. These beasts hated all Jews, period.

Offline muman613

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2014, 04:26:01 PM »
This was a BS excuse on their part. These beasts hated all Jews, period.

I fully agree. Jew haters, as explained in the videos I posted in the Torah section recently, will find a reason to hate Jews no matter what, or to blame any problem in the world on us...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2014, 04:26:19 PM »
drmg,

No problem... It is a good question.. As I said my initial impression was that JBS was antisemitic, but as I read more it appears that this may just have been accusations made by the left (and ADL which has traditionally been a leftist organization).

KWRBT,

What you are saying is just speculation. I was hoping to have an answer from someone who has actual experience with the situation. I am not trying to say anyone is speaking negative of the Rabbi, and as I said in many of my messages my Rabbi is very supportive of me and my Kahanist leanings. I am trying to come up with a good explanation of why it was in the best interest of Rabbi Kahane and JDL to infiltrate this organization.

In the playboy interview the Rabbi did not indicate that the issue was antisemitism but rather communism. I respect your opinion of what happened here, but I think I will have to ask Chaim on the AskJTF show for any more inside information...

Muman, I am going to try to answer your questions point by point.

1. The Rav explained why he did the playboy interview at the time. Long story short many secular Jews read playboy. Doing the interview allowed him to reach Jews who would otherwise never have heard his message.

2. About Gloria Jean D'Argenio, the woman who killed herself. It was a very sad story, but the truth is pretty simple. She was a woman who joined the Rav's Fourth of July movement. She was mentally ill and eventually killed herself. No evidence of the the supposed affair has ever been produced, despite many years of looking by the Rav's opponents. The author of the article claiming the affair Michael Kaufman was a long time opponent of the Rav's so any claims, particularly those he made with no evidence to back them up, are suspect.

3. A clarification, the Rav infiltrated the JBS before the JDL existed.

4. The Rav infiltrated the JBS to see if they were anti-Semitic, if you say they arent fine. But they had a reputation at the time.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2014, 04:27:53 PM »
I fully agree. Jew haters, as explained in the videos I posted in the Torah section recently, will find a reason to hate Jews no matter what, or to blame any problem in the world on us...
The biggest NWOists/globalists are the uber-rich, i.e. the Fords, Disneys, Turners, etc. of the world. So their picking on Jews for alleged Marxism is utter hypocrisy.

Offline muman613

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2014, 04:29:15 PM »
Thank you Kahaneloyalist.... I understand what  you are saying...

So the reason he joined was to investigate antisemtism... It was not clear from the sources I have come across till now.

Also, regarding the woman... Indeed it is a sad chapter.. I can understand a mentally unbalanced gentile woman becoming attracted to the Rabbi, he was a good looking guy and he was strong in masculine way (and his ideology too)... I am glad that there was really no 'relationship' because that would be very difficult to explain.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2014, 06:44:21 PM »
I believe you guy's if you say they were anti-Semitic, I wasn't alive then. They seem to be all over the place with their theories, and the theories against them, but how do we explain this...

http://www.jta.org/1966/02/18/archive/group-of-jewish-members-of-john-birch-society-form-organisation

Organisation

February 18, 1966

NEW YORK (Feb. 17)

Two Jews, who said they are members of the John Birch Society, announced here today that they are forming a new organization, called the Jewish Society of Americanist. The men are Samuel Blumenfeld an employe of the John Birch Society, in Boston; and Alan Stang, of New York, author of a book linking the civil rights movement with Communism.

They issued a statement of principles declaring that the society’s aim will be “to demonstrate to our fellow Americans and coreligionist that the Americanist principles, beliefs and aims of the John Birch Society are based on the very precepts of Judaism.”

At a news conference they said that, since an announcement two weeks ago in a Birch Society publication that the Jewish group would be formed, “several hundred” Jews around the country have endorsed the move. Mr. Stang, declaring the title of the society a “misnomer, ” said the group will admit not only non-Jews but also non-members of the John Birch Society.

Thomas J. Davis, public relations manager for Eastern United States of the John Birch Society, claimed there are 1,000 Jews in the USA among the society’s 100,000 members. Listed among the officers of the new group are Michael S. Kogan, chairman; Mr. Blunmenfeld, vice-chairman; and W.C. Solomon, executive secretary. None of them is known in Jewish public life



Read more: http://www.jta.org/1966/02/18/archive/group-of-jewish-members-of-john-birch-society-form-organisation#ixzz2v6INsydP

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.


Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2014, 07:07:57 PM »
^He is also an atheist, if it doesn't say that in the wikipedia link.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2014, 09:08:01 PM »
KWRBT,

What you are saying is just speculation. I was hoping to have an answer from someone who has actual experience with the situation. I am not trying to say anyone is speaking negative of the Rabbi, and as I said in many of my messages my Rabbi is very supportive of me and my Kahanist leanings. I am trying to come up with a good explanation of why it was in the best interest of Rabbi Kahane and JDL to infiltrate this organization.

As far as I know this was done pre JDL days.  So it is speculation for anyone to suggest a motivation to his actions unless they personally asked him.  However, it is self-evident that what he learned from this experience would come in handy in running the JDL (for reasons I already explained).  Beyond that, it would seem to me there is no reason to seek some deep explanation of the reason he did this work (unless one thinks it's "questionable").  Do I need to deeply contemplate why you are a software engineer?  It's your job, and presumably you like it.  He worked for the fbi at that time as his job.  Basic common sense would suggest he did it to get a paycheck and given the Rabbi's personality, he probably believed they were dangerous in the JHS and believed that the job he was doing helped protect the Jewish people.  That's just kind of a common sense answer.

Now you are saying no one considered it negative, but didn't you call it "questionable" before?  If so, I just don't see it that way.


You continue to dispute the antisemitism charges based on the fact that ADL said it but where is your proof they are the only ones?  And why refuse to address the point that the ADL saying something doesn't necessarily make it incorrect.  ADL today calls neonazis antisemitic.  Would you disagree with them?
Quote
In the playboy interview the Rabbi did not indicate that the issue was antisemitism but rather communism. I respect your opinion of what happened here, but I think I will have to ask Chaim on the AskJTF show for any more inside information...

Then maybe it was more about communism than antisemitism. I know that he considered a communist takeover as dangerous to the Jews.  Soviet union as obvious example at that time.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2014, 09:25:37 PM »
"Now you are saying no one considered it negative, but didn't you call it "questionable" before?  If so, I just don't see it that way."

I'm pretty sure he is referring to the gentile women, but the FBI thing is kinda weird. ..

You pick at the little things...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2014, 09:33:08 PM »
"In the playboy interview the Rabbi did not indicate that the issue was antisemitism but rather communism. I respect your opinion of what happened here, but I think I will have to ask Chaim on the AskJTF show for any more inside information..."

I don't know how you got that... I got the impression he was saying they were over the top...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2014, 09:41:45 PM »
I would also like to add Henry Ford was a sellout, and turned on his own for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2014, 09:47:39 PM »
"Now you are saying no one considered it negative, but didn't you call it "questionable" before?  If so, I just don't see it that way."

I'm pretty sure he is referring to the gentile women, but the FBI thing is kinda weird. ..

You pick at the little things...

Huh?  He called it all questionable as far as I know.  Now are you saying the fbi thing is "weird?"  I don't understand this point of view, how is it weird?

Iwasnt "picking" if you agree with me that at first he said it was questionable but now all of a sudden everyone is fine with it.  From his initial post it sounded to me like his friends at chabad were bothered by the behavior.  I just don't see anything wrong with it.  (Likewise about the playboy interview).

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2014, 09:54:03 PM »
I would also like to add Henry Ford was a sellout, and turned on his own for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion...

WHAT?
 :o

Are you aware that that book was a forgery written by antisemites for the purpose of spreading Jew hatred?

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Rabbi Kahane & the John Birch Society : What is the JTF back-story?
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2014, 09:57:40 PM »
WHAT?
 :o

Are you aware that that book was a forgery written by antisemites for the purpose of spreading Jew hatred?
Yup, I knew exactly what I said! He believed the Russians and became an anti-Semite. ..
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.